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Apple says any mobile phone has reception issues when held wrong - Page 8

post #281 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

This is turning into a very ugly product introduction and it really exposes a fundamental flaw at Apple concerning real-world testing... they simply don't know how to do it!



in the real world the phone was always cloaked in that 3gs case they probably didnt even realize
post #282 of 444
post #283 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildone View Post

I guess you missed the earlier post by Ireland today. You should look at those pics, as I guess none of the people know how to hold a phone. I think most people cradle the phone in the palm of their hand. Part of Steve Jobs sales pitch was how slim the phone is. So now we should buy bumpers or a case to add to the thickness or we are told that we are holding the phone wrong which is BS. When you bought your phone did the phone rep tell you how to hold it. I bet they didn't, as it should not make any difference how you hold a cell phone. My cell phone works fine no matter how I hold it. Your post sounds like you might be Steve J, are you?

Nope, but I wish I had his wealth. But it is not hard to figure out how to hold it if blocking the seams at the bottom affects reception. Same was true on the original iPhone. The antenna is at the bottom of the phone, behind the plastic cover. Obstruct that area and the signal goes down. Now you should buy a case? You never bought a case for any of your earlier phones? Every sales pitch for all prior generations of iPhones and iPods has always been how thin it is, so what is your point? The bumper doesn't really make the phone that much thicker. Plus, I have never seen anyone without a case, even when there weren't reports of reception issues. The iPhone 4 has better reception than any previous iPhone.

How about this, if the instructions for the iPhone 4 stated not to block the seams on the bottom of the phone because it would affect antenna performance, do you think anyone would complain about this? Did you know that if you obstruct any other kind of antenna, the signal is reduced? The days of the slide out extended antenna on flip phones are over. People want the antenna embedded in the device, so they need to learn how to hold a phone without obstructing the antenna.
post #284 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Ask yourself, why are calls being dropped, when being held normally, is only happenening to the iphone?

Well, first of all, we all know that, "calls being dropped, when being held normally, is only happenening (sic) to the iphone," is not true. Dropped calls happen all the time on all phones.

The question is, are dropped calls actually happening more on iPhone 4 than on other phones on AT&T's network? I'm neutral on this issue at themoment, but so far all we've heard is that people can make the call drop if they do such and such, not that dropped calls are happening more, "when being held normally."
post #285 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Keep smoking that pop pipe, Sonny.

@Ireland-Not that Apple didn't sound a little silly with that explanation. but before you think this is a problem unique to Apple, read this:

http://community.vzw.com/t5/Android-.../192561/page/2

and this:

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dro...reception.html

Oh, you want a YouTube video? Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

Yes, Apple needs to remedy this. They could start with bundling the bumpers with the iPhone and/or give the problem phone owners a free bumper. If that doesn't solve the problem for the customer, give them their money back or replace the phone (whichever they prefer). It really is that simple. Customer service 101.
post #286 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by dshel View Post

This antenna thing is an Apple Basher trick. My IPhone 4 works great. If you have sweaty hands, and are out on the edge of a Wi-Fi network range, it might make a difference. I have tried and it just doesn't happen. AT&T dropped down to Edge coverage briefly yesterday, due to the system overload they experinced. It came back to 5 Bars of 3G by late afternoon. This is a non-issue, and should not be blown up into a genuine problem. It Isn"t1

Hmmm, I don't have Cancer - therefore Cancer doesn't exist and all those people are faking it. Think, the good Lord gave you something to hold your ears apart - use it.

I'm glad your G4 doesn't have this problem - that doesn't mean that mine isn't a piece of crap (it is). I cannot make a phone call when I'm at work. The calls drop - 100% of the time - tried 7x to talk to my wife and failed.

The phone works great in areas where AT&T delivers 5 bars; but if you are in an area where only 2-4 bars are present and you hold the phone in any orientation - you will drop the call - each and every time. Now, a piece of electical tape seems to remedy the situation; you just have to be careful that the tape does NOT cover the grill on the lower left hand side of the phone - by the Apple connector - as this is the microphone.

I strongly suspect that the first batch of phones were supposed to get a shot of clearcoat polyeurathane to make the metal band non-conductive. As the clearcoat is transparent - this process step may have been bypassed - thus when a person touches the phone they short out the antennae. It could easily be that your phone got that clearcoat (or better yet, a clear annodization (ie glass) plating); while a large percentage of the phones on the market did not get such treatment.

That's all it would take to 'fix' the problem. Clearcoat, or far better would be a Annodized clear plating on the metal band. You wouldn't be able to see it, or even likely feel it - but as long as they had a non-conductive layer - the problem would be fixed ..... permanently.
post #287 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by a2gsg View Post



Funniest thing I have seen all week!
post #288 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And all those sites have users saying they don't have a problem. Why are they ignored if not drive home the FUD that it's "design flaw" affecting ALL units.

There was one estimate of 1.5M units sold yesterday, including mailed-preorders. To be <1% that would be under 15,000 units affected with this "shorting out" when you touch both antenna. Are there anywhere near that many complaints or is this the typical perpetual internet reverberation machine from a very few devices having an issue.

Note that even if Apple dropped the number of bad units per 1000 by half there would still be more bad units if they sell more than double than the previous year. Will the internet account for scale?

It probably is not a design flaw that affects all units, but it is probably more of an issue in the iPhone 4 than others.

For a lark, I tested my 3G and my wife's BlackBerry 9700. If I hold my 3G, no problem. If I grip my 3G I will lose all my bars in about a minute, and if I loosen my grip, they come back. Oddly enough, standing in the same position, the BlackBerry is completely unaffected by any alteration in how the phone is held.
post #289 of 444
If I wanted to buy a cell phone and I was told I had to hold it a certain way I would not buy the phone. Did you look at the Apple promo pics posted by Ireland earlier today. All of the people are holding the phone wrong!!!!!!!! Would you buy a car if they told you it would only go in reverse???? I guess Hillstones is right and everyone else is wrong and nobody but Hillstones knows how to hold a phone.
post #290 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Where else are they supposed to put the antenna? It has to go somewhere. FCC requires specific placement of the antenna, which they don't care how the phone is held for those requirements. If Apple and other cell phone makers don't follow FCC rules, the phone never gets released. FCC requires the antenna to be at the bottom of cell phones, just like the original iPhone and iPhone 3G. If you blocked the plastic cover on the original iPhone, your signal degraded, and guess where that was when you held it, right in the palm of your hand.

How about they release a phone where even the size of newborn's pinky can't interfere with reception. The issue here isn't the placement of the antenna within the case. This is a problem every cell phone has. The issue is that now takes very little to intefere with reception.

More than likely because of the design, the issue has moved from AT&T's coverage to be about the device instead.
post #291 of 444
Sounds like Hodar has the possible solution. Good idea!!
post #292 of 444
Using speedtest.net 6 tests in saturated Washington DC

3 with rubber case held in hand:
243k down 16k up
115k down 762k up (yes, really had that much difference in upload speeds)
1621k down 84k up

3 with no case held in left hand to use web away from head
98k down 0k up
test would not complete, no data
test would not complete no data

I regularly use a case on all of my iPhones, currently I am using a rubber one from my 3gs though it is not a perfect fit. So this issue really does not affect me, but maybe Apple should be giving out free bumpers or cases as its pretty unusable without.
post #293 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Engagdet are using my screenshot compilation.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/h...ding-it-wrong/

Just my 2 cents.

This problem could be corrected easily, and is likely the result of poor Quality work at Foxconn. I would bet $$$ that Foxconn is gonna eat this one.

Manufacturing Fix #1: Clear coat spray of a Polyeurathane type material to outside benzel prior to assembly. Downsides - this material will wear off, may give the bezel a 'glossy' or smooth touch that may be counter to Apple's design goals. This is an easy and cost effective manufacturing step - that should be statistically checked during the manufacturing steps.

Manufacturing Fix #1: Highly desired would be an annodized non-conductive clear coat finish. This would be as close to permenant as I can imagine getting, as the annodization is almost as hard as glass - and just as non-conductive. This can be done very cost effectively, if done in quantity (and yes, 600K+ is what one would consider high quantity).

The problem, as I see it, is that there were no processes in place at Foxconn to ensure that the Bezels were 'treated' prior to assembly.

Could it be that Apple didn't know about this problem until after the first 600K units had the bezels welded to the internal support structure? Possibly. The field-test GS 'camoflage' likely masked the design flaw; so it is plausable that Apple was not aware of this until launch, or before the units were too far along the production curve to fix.

When you think of this - consider that AT&T and Apple QUIT TAKING ORDERS after the first day. Do you think they realized that they have a huge problem, and are buying time by delaying launch dates internationally, and not taking further orders - until they can build and validate a 'fix' to this issue? That's what I would do.
post #294 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltsBear View Post

3 with no case held in left hand to use web away from head
98k down 0k up
test would not complete, no data
test would not complete no data

Is that just holding it naturally, or intentionally making sure the seam is bridged?
post #295 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Is that just holding it naturally, or intentionally making sure the seam is bridged?

Its not an or, its an and.

I am holding it naturally and the seam is bridged. I hold it in my left hand and use my right hand for touch. I would have to hold it awkwardly in my left hand not to bridge the seam. My thumb is near the volume controls, my palm is bridging the left side, my pinky could but would not always bridge the right side. Held very lightly.
post #296 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckh1272 View Post

@Ireland-Not that Apple didn't sound a little silly with that explanation. but before you think this is a problem unique to Apple, read this:

http://community.vzw.com/t5/Android-.../192561/page/2

and this:

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dro...reception.html

Oh, you want a YouTube video? Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

Yes, Apple needs to remedy this. They could start with bundling the bumpers with the iPhone and/or give the problem phone owners a free bumper. If that doesn't solve the problem for the customer, give them their money back or replace the phone (whichever they prefer). It really is that simple. Customer service 101.

Just because one other phone has the same issue, it doesn't make this right in any way. Also, one other phone having this issue is a far cry from "any mobile phone has reception issues when held wrong."

As it stands, Apple doesn't sound like they're willing to replace the units that suffer from this the most. To top it off, they said to hold the phone differently! This is all just so absurd!

I'm definitely willing to accept that other phones might have had the issue, and I'm also willing to accept this doesn't affect but a small percentage of the ip4's sold, but people around here compare Apple to Ferrari and Rolex. Would Ferrari tell someone they're pressing the gas wrong if the car stalls out when you try to drive it? Jeesh
post #297 of 444
Quote:
For a bit of comic relief, the crew at Reddit dug through Apple's official iPhone 4 advertisement videos and uncovered countless models holding the iPhone 4 "incorrectly."

:/

~Callum
post #298 of 444
I'm not seeing anything new here. I can make my 3GS go from 5 bars to 1 by covering the bottom black strip on both sides with my hands and squeezing. I personally haven't ever noticed any issues with my 3GS under normal use and I'm a left hand phone holder. I saw them do the same experiment I did to my 3GS with the 4G on twit.tv yesterday. They had to go out of their way to make their bars drop just as I had to.

Where exactly did Apple say users are at fault or that their way of holding the phone is wrong? The statement I saw was "If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases." Seems reasonable to me. Nowhere is it stated that the user is wrong. The statement just requests folks to adjust the way they are handling the phone or purchase a case if there is an issue. Their statement doesn't insult them, it just explains how the phone will work the best.

Additionally, the iphone 4G passed the ever important Jimmy Fallon test, so how much worse can the reception be?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/t...ng-less-calls/
post #299 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckh1272 View Post

@Ireland-Not that Apple didn't sound a little silly with that explanation. but before you think this is a problem unique to Apple, read this:

http://community.vzw.com/t5/Android-.../192561/page/2

and this:

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/dro...reception.html

Oh, you want a YouTube video? Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

Yes, Apple needs to remedy this. They could start with bundling the bumpers with the iPhone and/or give the problem phone owners a free bumper. If that doesn't solve the problem for the customer, give them their money back or replace the phone (whichever they prefer). It really is that simple. Customer service 101.

Exactly. Apple is under fire because they are, well.... IMMENSELY SUCCESSFUL!

The bigger you get, the more you get attacked.

Trolls love to attack. The Media loves to attack. And the competition loves to attack.

Time and again, Apple comes out with high quality products, elegantly designed, simple to use, and attractive to the end user because it is designed for them, rather than it being a product crammed full of stuff without any regard for what people really want.

Some people whether the media, Apple haters, competing corporations, cannot fathom how everything this company does since the ipod (iphone, app store, retail stores, iPad) turns to gold.

Jealousy of success. It's too bad, but that is how it is.....

Life at the top ain't perfect.

BUT I AIN'T GIVING UP MY iphone! I've found it vastly superior to everything else I've used.
If you don't like it, don't buy it! Do these people really whine and complain about EVERY single product they don't like and don't own, as if they are personally affected by lack thereof?
post #300 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

Just my 2 cents.

This problem could be corrected easily, and is likely the result of poor Quality work at Foxconn. I would bet $$$ that Foxconn is gonna eat this one.

Manufacturing Fix #1: Clear coat spray of a Polyeurathane type material to outside benzel prior to assembly. Downsides - this material will wear off, may give the bezel a 'glossy' or smooth touch that may be counter to Apple's design goals. This is an easy and cost effective manufacturing step - that should be statistically checked during the manufacturing steps.

Manufacturing Fix #1: Highly desired would be an annodized non-conductive clear coat finish. This would be as close to permenant as I can imagine getting, as the annodization is almost as hard as glass - and just as non-conductive. This can be done very cost effectively, if done in quantity (and yes, 600K+ is what one would consider high quantity).

The problem, as I see it, is that there were no processes in place at Foxconn to ensure that the Bezels were 'treated' prior to assembly.

Could it be that Apple didn't know about this problem until after the first 600K units had the bezels welded to the internal support structure? Possibly. The field-test GS 'camoflage' likely masked the design flaw; so it is plausable that Apple was not aware of this until launch, or before the units were too far along the production curve to fix.

When you think of this - consider that AT&T and Apple QUIT TAKING ORDERS after the first day. Do you think they realized that they have a huge problem, and are buying time by delaying launch dates internationally, and not taking further orders - until they can build and validate a 'fix' to this issue? That's what I would do.

Good points and I hope Apple goes with #2.

I was ready to get the new iPhone after the craze dies down but I'm just going to sit back and wait. I'm still getting one but it's because I'm tied to apps like Omnifocus (amongst others) that sync with my Mac. If it wasn't the case I'd probably ditch it.
post #301 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltsBear View Post

Its not an or, its an and.

I am holding it naturally and the seam is bridged. I hold it in my left hand and use my right hand for touch. I would have to hold it awkwardly in my left hand not to bridge the seam. My thumb is near the volume controls, my palm is bridging the left side, my pinky could but would not always bridge the right side. Held very lightly.

So, with the seam resting against the base of your thumb?
post #302 of 444
Weird. I can't replicate this problem at all. I have large hands and I've tried gripping my iPhone in my left, completely covering the area they're talking about (hell, I tried covering as much of the sides and back as possible) and I see no change in my reception. It's full strength, regardless.
post #303 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

So, with the seam resting against the base of your thumb?

Hold your phone with your left hand facing you where your thumb is at the volume controls. Most people's palm will end up touching the left seam bridging it. The pinkie will be near but not always covering the right seam.
post #304 of 444
In 2007 Apple came up with a Smartphone with a multi touch interface. They figured time had come for a sweeping change, but it required a learning process for the Users. Apple was prescient and Users bought enthusiastically into it. No amount of propaganda and spin by the competition and their pundits and pseudo journalists apparatus could quell the onslaught.

In 2010 the iPhone tackles the cellular receptivity issue in the same vain. Apple 'patents' a way to make the antenna more efficient. Brilliant and elegant for its structural integration, the idea here is to shift 3G cellular Networks inefficiencies to the end user's control. Thus, more openly and upfront than ever, the way you handle the phone determines receptivity, and in the end, the quality of a phone call. It's a User Centric approach, drifting slowly and seamlessly away from the Service Provider. But it has a learning curve, obviously, as was the case with multi touch back then.

Apple much prefers bearing full responsibility for the user experience of its products. AT&T, any service provider for that matter, are a pain in the neck for Apple. They just don't share the same business culture. This antenna conundrum illustrates in no uncertain terms the direction and the measures Apple is willing to take to eventually part ways with alien, non assimilable, but widely prevailing business practices.

It's all about the complete User experience, and eliminating as much interference as possible between point A and point B. And I mean physical, cultural and social interference. Bashing and hating on AT&T for the wrong reasons in no way should drive the User experience. Control and conscious decision making should.

This antenna is a metaphorical portal to the self control paradigm. From patrician jeers to plaebian cheers, an echo from yesteryear.
post #305 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Which goes against the trolls claim that it's a design flaw shorting out the antennas.

(Apologist Supreme: Added to ignore list)
post #306 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katonah View Post

Exactly. Apple is under fire because they are, well.... IMMENSELY SUCCESSFUL!

The bigger you get, the more you get attacked.

Trolls love to attack. The Media loves to attack. And the competition loves to attack.

Time and again, Apple comes out with high quality products, elegantly designed, simple to use, and attractive to the end user because it is designed for them, rather than it being a product crammed full of stuff without any regard for what people really want.

Some people whether the media, Apple haters, competing corporations, cannot fathom how everything this company does since the ipod (iphone, app store, retail stores, iPad) turns to gold.

Jealousy of success. It's too bad, but that is how it is.....

Life at the top ain't perfect.

BUT I AIN'T GIVING UP MY iphone! I've found it vastly superior to everything else I've used.
If you don't like it, don't buy it! Do these people really whine and complain about EVERY single product they don't like and don't own, as if they are personally affected by lack thereof?

Well you're wrong.

Apple sells a ton of iphones, and now this issue comes up only for SJ to tell everyone they're holding their phones wrong. Their own advertisements are holding the phone wrong.

I guess you thought it was ok for HTC to tell people phones don't belong in pockets? If not, you're a hypocrite.
post #307 of 444
Here's a video of my 3GS doing the same thing when I hold it with my whole hand instead of the usual fingertips that most people use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t3AmWkZcE8

All cell phones do this.
post #308 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Well you're wrong.

Apple sells a ton of iphones, and now this issue comes up only for SJ to tell everyone they're holding their phones wrong. Their own advertisements are holding the phone wrong.

I guess you thought it was ok for HTC to tell people phones don't belong in pockets? If not, you're a hypocrite.

I have no doubt that Apple will deal with this "issue", big or small, in a way that satisfies their customers.

Regardless, detractors will continue to detract.
post #309 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltsBear View Post

Hold your phone with your left hand facing you where your thumb is at the volume controls. Most people's palm will end up touching the left seam bridging it. The pinkie will be near but not always covering the right seam.

I'm not sure the right "seam" is actually a seam, is it? The slides they showed in the keynote showed it as a continuous piece from the left, around the bottom and up to the top. So, I think it's the base of the thumb that would be the issue, not the pinky on the right, which may just be a faux seam.
post #310 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

When you think of this - consider that AT&T and Apple QUIT TAKING ORDERS after the first day. Do you think they realized that they have a huge problem, and are buying time by delaying launch dates internationally, and not taking further orders - until they can build and validate a 'fix' to this issue? That's what I would do.

I would too, but AT&T still advertises that they will take additional orders beginning next Tuesday. If they do so and a "fix" isn't known your theory bites the dust, right?
post #311 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post

Here's a video of my 3GS doing the same thing when I hold it with my whole hand instead of the usual fingertips that most people use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t3AmWkZcE8

All cell phones do this.

Well, yeah, I think we can pretty much discount the "death grip" problems, since no one actually ever holds a phone like that in real world usage.
post #312 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katonah View Post

I have no doubt that Apple will deal with this "issue", big or small, in a way that satisfies their customers.

Regardless, detractors will continue to detract.

I hope they do. They're supposed to be what other companies should strive to be (from what I hear from the die hard fans.) It doesn't sound this way though when they say the solution is to hold it differently.
post #313 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckh1272 View Post

Funniest thing I have seen all week!

Yeah I got a kick out of that one too. I still can't figure out the Sulawesi notation. I especially like the FHF and the Miller Lite.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #314 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, yeah, I think we can pretty much discount the "death grip" problems, since no one actually ever holds a phone like that in real world usage.

Not unless you're in south-east DC...
post #315 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Yeah I got a kick out of that one too. I still can't figure out the Sulawesi notation. I especially like the FHF and the Miller Lite.

censored under patriot act got me
post #316 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

(Apologist Supreme: Added to ignore list)

A new poster (less than 200 posts total) adding solipsism to their "ignore" list.

Friggin' priceless!
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
post #317 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar View Post

Clear coat spray of a Polyeurathane type material to outside benzel prior to assembly. Downsides - this material will wear off, may give the bezel a 'glossy' or smooth touch that may be counter to Apple's design goals. This is an easy and cost effective manufacturing step - that should be statistically checked during the manufacturing steps.

Highly desired would be an annodized non-conductive clear coat finish. This would be as close to permenant as I can imagine getting, as the annodization is almost as hard as glass - and just as non-conductive.

The rubber bumper is radio transparent but are polyurethane and anodized coatings completely radio transparent. I assume you would want the antenna itself to be remain conductive.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #318 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post

Here's a video of my 3GS doing the same thing when I hold it with my whole hand instead of the usual fingertips that most people use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t3AmWkZcE8

All cell phones do this.

That can't be true because that would mean there is no design flaw and they'd have to admit their reasoning was fallacious, so it has to be a problem with that only affects the iPhone 4 and all iPhone 4s or they risk having to admit to themselves they didn't think or act rationally. That isn't likely to happen with people who are not ratiocinative.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #319 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

Weird. I can't replicate this problem at all. I have large hands and I've tried gripping my iPhone in my left, completely covering the area they're talking about (hell, I tried covering as much of the sides and back as possible) and I see no change in my reception. It's full strength, regardless.

Nice to finally see some sane posters in this thread.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
post #320 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

A new poster (less than 200 posts total) adding solipsism to their "ignore" list.

Friggin' priceless!

Based on the countless cries of "troll" and dismissive attitude towards anyone who seemed to disagree, I have no need to hear more from him.

And when you can, please let me know how many posts one has to make before being "qualified" to add someone to the ignore list. Thanks.

Sheesh.

Edit: Nm. I have no need for lock-step apologists, whether it be Apple or Microsoft. Plenty of other people to get honest opinion and information from. Read your last post where claiming no problem equals "sane poster," don't bother replying, unless of course you're wanting to show off (again) for your buds, you're nuked as well.
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