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Microsoft exec compares Apple's iPhone 4 to Windows Vista - Page 3

post #81 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post

Microsoft is *literally* defining The New Dictionary Of Product Failures.

*Vista is the new term for a serious stumble.

Dude, be careful. You don't wanna Vista this project.

*Kin is the new term for major fvckup.

OMFG! This is one unmitigated Kin.



Shouldn't that be like going number one or number two?

That is, instead of saying "This is a piss poor job!"
You'd say "This is a Kin One Job!"

Instead of saying "This food tastes like s*it,"
You'd say "This food tastes like Kin Two."

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #82 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderSanDude View Post

The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners

Epic first post!
post #83 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Unfortunately, rebooting did not help me, neither did a full restore. I am a bit gun shy of the method outlined at MacWorld because they said it does not always work.

Mmm... All your app store and iTunes store purchases are backed up in iTunes on your PC (and ultimately on Apple's servers). If you have MobileMe, that and/or your computer has backup of mail, contacts, calendars. Your computer has backups of your photos.

The only thing I have ever lost doing a prior restore was the content of some apps-- I had a high score of over 7,000,000 in Bejeweed.

I haven't looked at the MacWorld article, so I have no thoughts on that.

I'll google (is that a bad word, now) around and see if I can come up with anything & let you know by PM, if I do.

BTW, the original iPhone and the iPhone 3G have a different CPU architecture (ARM 6) than the 3GS and iPhone 4 (ARM 7). So, the probable cause of the problem is that iOS4 is not properly handling the older hardware.

If that is a known issue, Apple will, likely, fix that in an update... so the best thing may be to wait a while.

.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -
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post #84 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Err...

iOS 4.1 is a developer release of the next version of iOS 4. It is not available to the general public.

I wouldn't expect 4.1 to address this issue at this time-- it wouldn't be available to those with the problem.

Usually Apple (and most software companies) fix high-profile issues in an x.y.z numbered release, where:

x.y is the current release level as in 4.0

z is the current update level as in 4.0.0


The "bars" fix is targeted at the current release and will, likely, be released as 4.0.1.


At the same time they are addressing issues with the current release, 4.0, a different team is adding new features to the next release, 4.1 (called a point release).

The last thing that is done before a new point release (4.1) is made available to the general public, is to to incorporate any fixes from the prior point telexes (4.0,z1, z2, z3...).

Otherwise everybody would be running around, getting in each other's way, changing what others have fixed... creating general chaos (kinda' like a thread on AI).

So the "bars" fix will. likely, be available to the general public, before the next point release (4.1).

.

They did do the bars update they've been talking about doing. See here- http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/14/i...to-developers/
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post #85 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


So, I'm wondering, have the press just decided to turn against Apple, or are Apple losing their press management skills?

Apple is the Tiger Woods of consumer electronics companies.
post #86 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Apple is the Tiger Woods of consumer electronics companies.

Stop insulting Apple!
post #87 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmm... All your app store and iTunes store purchases are backed up in iTunes on your PC (and ultimately on Apple's servers). If you have MobileMe, that and/or your computer has backup of mail, contacts, calendars. Your computer has backups of your photos.

The only thing I have ever lost doing a prior restore was the content of some apps-- I had a high score of over 7,000,000 in Bejeweed.

I haven't looked at the MacWorld article, so I have no thoughts on that.

I'll google (is that a bad word, now) around and see if I can come up with anything & let you know by PM, if I do.

BTW, the original iPhone and the iPhone 3G have a different CPU architecture (ARM 6) than the 3GS and iPhone 4 (ARM 7). So, the probable cause of the problem is that iOS4 is not properly handling the older hardware.

If that is a known issue, Apple will, likely, fix that in an update... so the best thing may be to wait a while.

.


I am sorry I was not clear. I never lost anything, it is all there. It is just that my 3G is slow slow slow, and nothing changed that.

I am aware of the hardware differences, hence the inability of the 3G to multitask *which IMHO is an overrated function in a smart phone". I upgraded to get the unified in box and folders, but if I had known about the performance hit, I would have passed.
post #88 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

Stop insulting Apple!

I didn't mean it as an insult to either.

They both were widely recognized as the best.
They both did something which deeply hurt and disappointed their loyal fans.
They both have not responded publicly in a way which restores the adoration of their fans.
They both are being hammered by the opportunistic and bloodthirsty press.
They both are capable of redemption, in my opinion, and I hope they both turn perceptions
around.
post #89 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

They did do the bars update they've been talking about doing. See here- http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/14/i...to-developers/

Mmmm... Unusual! They slipped it in (maybe) without any mention... Even engadget couldn't find a reference-- just an apparent difference in how the bars are displayed.

I suspect we'll get clarification in the next day or so.

.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -
"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -
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post #90 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmmm... Unusual! They slipped it in (maybe) without any mention... Even engadget couldn't find a reference-- just an apparent difference in how the bars are displayed.

I suspect we'll get clarification in the next day or so.

.

Gizmodo says-

"That little tidbit aside, it appears that the modem firmware has gotten an update as it's now version 02.07.01."
~ http://gizmodo.com/5587309/heres-wha...he-ios-41-beta
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post #91 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

I didn't mean it as an insult to either.

They both were widely recognized as the best.
They both did something which deeply hurt and disappointed their loyal fans.
They both have not responded publicly in a way which restores the adoration of their fans.
They both are being hammered by the opportunistic and bloodthirsty press.
They both are capable of redemption, in my opinion, and I hope they both turn perceptions
around.

I was just ribbing you. Tiger has lost a lot of respect and sponsors...not to mention his dominance on the golf course. I believe in redemption but Tiger has a ways to go before he reaches his previous stature.

As far as Apple's reputation goes, I predict this iPhone flap will be a faint memory before the summer is over. If Apple comes out and admits they lied about the problem, you will owe me an "I told you so."
post #92 of 113
Apple press conference tomorrow (Friday)-

"Apparently Apple has invited select members of the press to a very special press conference scheduled for this Friday. The only bit of information available is that the event is about the iPhone 4."
~ http://gizmodo.com/5587384/apple-hol...ence-on-friday
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post #93 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

I was just ribbing you. Tiger has lost a lot of respect and sponsors...not to mention his dominance on the golf course. I believe in redemption but Tiger has a ways to go before he reaches his previous stature.

As far as Apple's reputation goes, I predict this iPhone flap will be a faint memory before the summer is over. If Apple comes out and admits they lied about the problem, you will owe me an "I told you so."

I thought you might have been just ribbing me. It's all good. I just expanded my comment because I have been struck by the level of disillusionment coming from people on this board and it reminded me of the people who feel that Woods' antics are a personal affront to them. Of course,
in both instances there were a significant number of haters and trolls around even before the falls from grace. Some of the dramatic heartbreak we read here is not authentic, to put it as politely as I can.
post #94 of 113
At least Microsoft has a permanent solution to the problems with Vista and slow adoption rate of Windows 7 - support for downgrades to Windows XP until the year 2020 - http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2...ore-years.html

What has Apple got to compare to that? A free replacement iPhone 3GS for anyone hot happy with their iPhone 4? I don't think so.
post #95 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl View Post

I actually think Xbox 360 is the closer match to iPhone 4. Both hardware products.. Both having a failure that prevents them from working at their basic function. Both denied by the maker, both facing class action suits for the defect, and then eventually having to capitulate and acknowledge the gadget is just flawed by design. Xbox 360 due to compromises made due to ineptitude on thermal effects and an overly aggressive timetable, iPhone 4 due to ineptitude and a likely refusal to compromise 'the pretty design' with laws of physics.

Oh yeah, and both costing in the vicinity of $1+ billion to address. (except MIcrosoft still basically didn't fix it for existing owner, hence the '100%' failure rate.)

Funny, I had a launch XBox 360 and never had any issues with it. None of my friends did either. The one acquaintance I did know of that had an issue sent it back and got a new one. To say they had a 100% failure rate is silly. I think MS did a great job with how they handled the red ring errors even taking them back way after warranty expired.

I only hope that IF there is a real problem with the iPhone 4 that Apple will handle it the same way. I'm not talking free bumpers either - they are ugly. I'm saying recall the product and fix it. The worst thing you can do is not admit an error and dig yourself into a deeper hole.

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post #96 of 113
So what's the problem? There's still a budgeoning iPhone4 market for left-arm amputees Apple just need to re-target. Or maybe Apple could supply a complimentary single white glove? What? has that been done before?

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #97 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

So what's the problem? There's still a budgeoning iPhone4 market for left-arm amputees Apple just need to re-target. Or maybe Apple could supply a complimentary single white glove? What? has that been done before?

McD

Hahaha

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post #98 of 113
It didn't slip through product testing. It simply isn't an issue for 99 out of a 100 people. If you want thin phones with better reception the antenna has to go on the outside. Most people have to hold the phone in an awkward manner to cause the signal to drop. The drop in signal doesn't mean the phone is going hang up all the time.

The same is true with other similar phones. That is why you don't see HTC making fun of Apple because it's phone do the same thing.

Further, I haven't seen hardly anyone who uses the iPhone without a case. You can get a case for five bucks.

I guarantee there is gorilla war going on here, where Apple's competitors are trying their damnedest to make this a bigger issue then it really is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post

I have to admit, though, I'm pretty surprised that the antenna "issue", no matter how impactful, slipped through product testing. Given that reception is one of the primary concerns of 3G/3GS owners (warranted or not, whether AT&T's fault or design), I expected Apple would have that aspect sewn up.
post #99 of 113
When this iPhone controversy first started I made a joke that I had read where Apple was going to offer left-handed and right-handed iPhones. Upon reflection some three weeks later I'm beginning to think that might not be a bad solution.
post #100 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

What about people like me who have been buying apple products for 25 years? I have no hatred for Apple. But my iPhone 4 had serious reception problems before my pre-ordered bumper arrived.

The reception problem is a real issue no matter what kind of immature arguments are being waged one way or another. The existence of idiots on either side has no bearing on whether the problem is real or not.

Apple says just return the phone for full refund (without any deductions of whatsoever) if you are not satisfied for any reason. Micro$oft never had such things - they said downgrade to XP if you are not happy (you still have to pay the Vista price). Even with the Windows 7 - there is a two level downgrade available for the corporate.
post #101 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartBuzz View Post

When this iPhone controversy first started I made a joke that I had read where Apple was going to offer left-handed and right-handed iPhones. Upon reflection some three weeks later I'm beginning to think that might not be a bad solution.

That would help a lot but peoples pinkies might still quite easily bridge the gap, but a whole lot better than the way it is now.
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post #102 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

At which point, Turner activated the Genesis Device countdown and quoted Melville before dying.

To the last, I grapple with thee;
From Hell's heart, I stab at thee;
For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.


I know they're Melville's lines, but Khan's delivery is one of the best movie moments ever!
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post #103 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post

I'd hardly say that the iPhone 4 antenae problem is on the same level as the Vista problem. As one person said, it can be fixed with a simple non-conductive coating or adding the "bumper".

All Apple should do is give out free "bumpers" to existing owners who have a problem, if that fixes it. Apple can then fix future iPhone 4's by adding the non-conductive coating.

Apple, however is going to become the butt of all jokes.

Believe or not, Vista was fixed nicely after Service Pack 1, but initial bad reputation was - in Vista'a case - impossible to beat.

That being said, I really don't expect iPhone 4 can/will gather that much bad reputation... unless Apple completely fail to fix antenna issue and stick with their "hold it differently" story.
post #104 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Believe or not, Vista was fixed nicely after Service Pack 1, but initial bad reputation was - in Vista'a case - impossible to beat.

Bingo. The iPhone 4\\Vista comparison is apt.

Not that many people had problems with Vista, and what problems they did have were mainly caused by 3rd party applications and drivers , not the OS itself (comparison here is poor AT&T reception magnifying any reception issues of the iPhone itself).

After SP1 most Vista problems were fixed and it was pretty close to what W7 is now. (comparison here is a software fix, free bumper etc from Apple to fix the issue)

However Vista had already been pounced on by the media, bloggers and competitors and Microsoft simply couldn't shake the bad PR around Vista, even though the problems were fixed.

Nothing shows this better than the Mojave Experiment.

With this analogy I think Turner is alluding to the PR around the products more than the products themselves.



The one big difference I see is that whilst Microsoft were trying to fend off the brilliant advertising minds at Apple who were working overtime to reinforce the Vista stereotype, Apple has nothing more than a few offhand comments to compete against.

I have a feeling that Apple will come up with a fix and this whole thing will blow over unless Verizon/Google/Microsoft decide to throw a few hundred million into an advertising campaign against the iPhone, highlighting the reception issues and reinforcing the stereotype.
post #105 of 113
Don't see the controversy, it's a spot on comparison. Vista had its issues but was actually a decent product that had its initial flaws way overblown, and it could not recover from that. Despite its multiple advantages over XP, people still treat it like a leper.

iPhone 4 looks to be going down the same route, and could be plagued by the "can't keep reception" image throughout the rest of its life, regardless of truth/its multiple advantages.

As for the "and I'm OK with that", of course he is. This is the best case scenario for MS, who were well and truly out of the count with their rushed Windows phone 7. iPhones pristine image taking a stumble is exactly what they needed to even stay above water. This entire scenario must be like mana from heaven for Redmond.
post #106 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

Funny, I had a launch XBox 360 and never had any issues with it. None of my friends did either. The one acquaintance I did know of that had an issue sent it back and got a new one. To say they had a 100% failure rate is silly. I think MS did a great job with how they handled the red ring errors even taking them back way after warranty expired.

I'm on my third Xbox 360. I bought one shortly after launch in 2005 and it died after about 6 months. The replacement console died after about another 6 months. Thankfully, it was third time lucky and I've had no problems now for 3.5+ years.

Microsoft were dumb to initially deny that there was a problem but eventually did a good job of resolving the issue. Returning my console was painless and they always gave me something (Xbox Live subs, games) to say sorry.

I'm not particularly angry at Microsoft for my console failing. I can't remember how many times I've taken Apple laptops in for repair over the years and I still use them.
post #107 of 113
While I don't drink Apple koolaid, and feel it serves iPhone owners right, nothing comes even close to the colossal failure Vista is. It is this arrogance and ignorance that will cause Microsoft to continue with failed products. Nobody cares about the Windows phone. There's a lot I disagree about Apple's choices but overall they build solid products. This one thing Microsoft can never claim.
post #108 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

i read that they only sold like 10k of those,

Just as the human mind will suppress unpleasant memories, the actual number has been kept a closely guarded secret.

This source alleges your source is off... way off.
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post #109 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Bingo. The iPhone 4\\Vista comparison is apt.

Any analogy has some validity as long as you don't stretch it too far.

The really funny part is when Jobs gets on stage tomorrow and reminds the press that Apple already has a 30 day full money back policy - and that only x% of customers are returning the iPhone (where x is apparently a very small number). Then they'll mention the software fix along with any other fix.

Then Jobs will say: "OK, Mr. Ballmer. We've given the customers a free fix for the iPhone problems. Where is your free fix for Vista?"
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #110 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Sorry, I have to disagree. In the court of public opinion, the iPhone 4 is already a Vista. EVERYONE "knows" the iPhone 4 is problematic, regardless of whether or not it actually is. Apple has already lost the battle for "common knowledge" on the product; it is permanently tainted in the cultural vernacular. Not everyone knows that Android phones have issues, but even technically-ignorant grandmothers have heard of the iPhone 4's problems.

I honestly don't know if a recall would help or hurt, but the only way Apple can fruly fix things is to move on and release the iPhone 5. That's what it took for Microsoft with Vista, Ford with the Edsel, Disney with EuroDisney, McDonald's with the Arch Deluxe, etc.

my Dear Ktappe,

Didn't you Read the CR Report properly? They still gave the iP4 76 out of 100 points, where as the next best smartphone (funnily the iP3 gs) got only 76 points. So how for heavens sake do you think Apple should have lost even a tiny bit of the battle?????
post #111 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Any analogy has some validity as long as you don't stretch it too far.

The really funny part is when Jobs gets on stage tomorrow and reminds the press that Apple already has a 30 day full money back policy - and that only x% of customers are returning the iPhone (where x is apparently a very small number). Then they'll mention the software fix along with any other fix.

Then Jobs will say: "OK, Mr. Ballmer. We've given the customers a free fix for the iPhone problems. Where is your free fix for Vista?"

SP1/SP2 and XP downgrades. The main thing they did though was tighten up WHQL and started helping 3rd party hardware companies to fix their Windows drivers (which was the main issue with Vista in the first place)

The problem Microsoft had was their competitors saw the opportunity and went for the jugular. There was no way they could turn around the public perception of Vista whilst millions was being thrown into advertising to reinforce the negative stereotype.

Eventually they just decided to run with the negative publicity and pretend like there was something magical in Windows 7 that fixed all of the "problems" in Vista, where in reality W7 is nothing more than Vista SP3. For the most part it worked. W7 was met with overwhelmingly positive reviews and some of the quickest uptake in Windows history. Oddly (or maybe not) Windows Server 2008 and Windows Server 2008 R2 (which are based on Vista and W7 code bases respectively), were received positively from day one.

The answer to "what's in a name" would, in this case, seem to be "everything".

In any case Apple don't have to contend with any of that because all they have is a few grumpy bloggers and offhand comments. My guess is they will offer a free bumper and in 6 months everything will be forgotten.
post #112 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

I thought you had to actually have a product to be "in the game".

Actually their phones look preety tight, though I still can't get over the text being cut off. Makes no sense. The phone Apple might as in a little, worry about is the android phone and how many google apps will be cool and if they start to offer something very cool like sync, calanders. To do, etc, for 100% free.
post #113 of 113
I think this is poor wording by a Microsoft (exec?)

First, they are indirectly admitting that Vista was a flop. No matter how bad Vista was, they shouldn't admit it in this way (reminding consumers that Vista sucked).

And further on, he indirectly admits that Microsoft is behind in the smartphone OS market! Geez!

Instead, he should say something along the lines of "this is a chance for more people to see how great Microsoft's software is!" They need to set a good example, they are getting paid for this.

As for the OS wars comment, same thing, he should say it is a great opportunity for Microsoft to EXTEND THEIR LEADERSHIP in smartphone platforms.

They need to show that they believe their products are great and that they have confidence in them and their company.

I personally felt this was not the greatest choice of words for publicity.
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