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US buyers get lowest price for Apple's iPad 2, Demark most expensive - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No offence but this article tells us almost nothing. How can anyone make even a mental comparison when the prices quoted include or don't include various sales taxes.

The proper comparison is the pre-tax price expressed in whatever currency you want to pick.

It means nothing to write an article arguing that the iPad is "more expensive" in country A than country B if you aren't taking the tax issue off the table first. What's important, especially in terms of Apple's policies as a company (presumably what this blog is at least partially dedicated to), is that Apple is artificially jacking up the price of the iPad in *some* countries irrespective of the taxes and duties and exchange rates.

That's the real story.

Yes, and no. Because apart from taxes, there are also differences in regulation that potentially cost Apple money. For instance, buying extended warranty in The Netherlands (e.g. Apple Care) is pretty useless as you are already covered by law for defective products depending on a normal lifetime of a product (something sellers try to hush up or deny generally, so most people are unaware).
post #42 of 68
Of all Apple products the iPad is possibly one of the mire closely matched. If you look at Apple tv in the UK that's £101 ($160) and in the US its $99 + tax.

The tax things been mentioned quite a bit and I think that's probably a cultural difference. In the UK people don't really think of the price before tax, and as tax changes the price of products don't so much.
post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Right, so you spend euros, not dollars. As I thought. The conversion to dollars is meaningless since you don't earn or spend dollars in Greece.

Whys it meaningless, its an accurate way of comparing the value. If you were to buy an iPad from a Greek store using an American credit card, the bank would do the conversion and that is what you would pay.

It doesn't matter that he earns euros rather than dollars as there interchangeable. Just like when he spends his euros on the iPad Apple will change it back into dollars.
post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by allblue View Post

There is one issue with overseas pricing of Apple products, namely the price is fixed and rarely changes in the relatively lengthy gap between upgrades. However in that time currency rates can vary considerably. This isn't necessarily a disadvantage, I remember a few years back when sterling peaked at almost double the dollar and that reflected in the UK price, but when sterling's value fell the beneficial price remained for some time after. It does work the other way as well of course, so sometimes they are above the real US price, sometimes below. I would like to think that Apple sets their overseas prices according to some longer term mean to ensure equitability.

They price according to the market. They can't afford to do any other thing. Using exchange rated prices to make comparisons is a purely abstract exercise that only tells you that some currencies are more highly valued than others at any given moment. As you say, that relationship constantly changes, but local prices do not generally, because pricing is set for products in the local markets, not at some "world price" denominated locally in local currencies.

The Financial Times publishes their "Burgernomics" statistics every year, using one product (the McDonald's Big Mac) as the basis of their product price comparison. Same burger, very different prices all around the world. Last year they showed that a Big Mac costs almost four times as much in Norway as it does in Hong Kong. The Norwegians can gripe all they want, but they can still only buy Big Macs in their country with their currency. They are paying the local market price and they cannot order out to Hong Kong. If they want to enjoy a cheap burger then they need to buy it in another country. Obvious right? Apparently not. Whenever stories like this come out, you start hearing the "order out" logic applied to consumer goods.
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post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Whys it meaningless, its an accurate way of comparing the value. If you were to buy an iPad from a Greek store using an American credit card, the bank would do the conversion and that is what you would pay.

It doesn't matter that he earns euros rather than dollars as there interchangeable. Just like when he spends his euros on the iPad Apple will change it back into dollars.

Yes, you'd pay the Greek market price, because you are in Greece. The same is true in every other country and currency. If you wanted to get the benefit of your highly valued euros vs. the dollar you'd have to come to the US to make the purchase. The fact that the credit card company figures your exchange rate isn't of any consequence.
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post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisTheGeek View Post

Where in the world is Demark?

That reminds me of years ago when I was accepted to the University of Copenhagen -- I was sharing the news with my coworkers, and one of the women I worked with asked me again where it was I was going, and I replied, "Denmark." She responded excitedly, "Oh I LOVE New Zealand ... you're going to have a great time!" I didn't know what to say at first ... of course, I also had a whole bunch of people asking me if I already spoke Dutch, so not surprising really. "They speak Danish in Denmark?!? I thought they spoke Dutch ...," "No," I would say, "they speak Danish ... Dutch is the Netherlands."

That being said ... I don't find it very surprising the iPad is more expensive there. I lived in Denmark for years, and they have all kinds of ridiculous taxes on everything you buy. The cost of living is generally higher as well ... last I checked Copenhagen was still somewhere in the top three list of most expensive cities in the world. For example, a 16 ounce bottle of Coke one can purchase for about a dollar here in the US costs about three dollars in Denmark. About the only thing that is cheaper in Denmark than in the US is Carlsberg beer, and hot dogs ...
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

About the only thing that is cheaper in Denmark than in the US is Carlsberg beer, and hot dogs ...

I know what I'd be living on.
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post #48 of 68
In Canada, every iPad model is $20 more expensive than in the U.S.A, despite the fact that the Canadian dollar is worth 1.02 US$.

When you factor in the useless, low quality cameras, and the rumor that the iPad 3 will be launched next Fall (see http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/09/...his-september/), the iPad 2 looks very much like an overpriced piece of junk.

Quality has to go in before I buy! ™


post #49 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

No, the original poster's $562 figure is correct.

<math lesson>

562 + 25% = 702

You can't do 702 - 25% as your answer will be wrong...

702 - 25% = 526 but 526 + 25% = 657 not 702

</math lesson>

Ouch! I stand corrected.
post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

That reminds me of years ago when I was accepted to the University of Copenhagen -- I was sharing the news with my coworkers, and one of the women I worked with asked me again where it was I was going, and I replied, "Denmark." She responded excitedly, "Oh I LOVE New Zealand ... you're going to have a great time!" I didn't know what to say at first ... of course, I also had a whole bunch of people asking me if I already spoke Dutch, so not surprising really. "They speak Danish in Denmark?!? I thought they spoke Dutch ...," "No," I would say, "they speak Danish ... Dutch is the Netherlands."

That being said ... I don't find it very surprising the iPad is more expensive there. I lived in Denmark for years, and they have all kinds of ridiculous taxes on everything you buy. The cost of living is generally higher as well ... last I checked Copenhagen was still somewhere in the top three list of most expensive cities in the world. For example, a 16 ounce bottle of Coke one can purchase for about a dollar here in the US costs about three dollars in Denmark. About the only thing that is cheaper in Denmark than in the US is Carlsberg beer, and hot dogs ...

It's not really comparable. It is expensive only for travelers. Southern California is a lot more expensive to live in than Copenhagen. When I worked in Copenhagen I made 45% more than I do now (before tax and I got 33% income tax in Denmark compared to 28% here), yet the rent is the same price. jeg boede i københavn fra februar 2009 til 2011. jeg også arbejdede på KU. Though it was quite a shock going to Halifax and paying 330 dkk for two burgers and two beers.

and by the way...(not to blursd) kroner is plural krone is singular...it means crown(s)
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post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The Financial Times publishes their "Burgernomics" statistics every year, using one product (the McDonald's Big Mac) as the basis of their product price comparison. Same burger, very different prices all around the world. Last year they showed that a Big Mac costs almost four times as much in Norway as it does in Hong Kong. ...

The Big Mac index is some measure of the relative cost of living - salaries vs. taxes, rent, food, etc. So doing the Big Mac index thing on the iPad 2 price in Denmark, I get

One Big Mac (standard issue) costs 27,00 DKK incl. VAT, the base iPad 2, costing 3699 DKK incl. VAT, hence

iPad 2 (Denmark) = 137 Big Macs

Just because there are rules, it doesn't mean the game is fair.

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post #52 of 68
The iPad 2 price where I live (Australia) is not too bad.

iPad 2 WiFi 16GB = $AU 579
Take off 10% national sales tax = $AU 526
Convert to US dollars: $US 539

So we are paying $40 more since it cost $US499 in the US. I don't think that's too bad because we are a lot smaller market with less competition. You need a massive, competitive economy like the US to drop that last 40.
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The Financial Times publishes their "Burgernomics" statistics every year, using one product (the McDonald's Big Mac) as the basis of their product price comparison.

It's actually The Economist I believe.
post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Sure View Post

It's not really comparable. It is expensive only for travelers. Southern California is a lot more expensive to live in than Copenhagen. When I worked in Copenhagen I made 45% more than I do now (before tax and I got 33% income tax in Denmark compared to 28% here), yet the rent is the same price. jeg boede i københavn fra februar 2009 til 2011. jeg også arbejdede på KU. Though it was quite a shock going to Halifax and paying 330 dkk for two burgers and two beers.

and by the way...(not to blursd) kroner is plural krone is singular...it means crown(s)

Ummm ... I was born and raised in Southern California (for the most part ... From grades 7-10 I lived in Brazil), and I lived in Copenhagen for four years, then Sweden for another three. I don't really agree with your assertion that Southern California is more expensive than Denmark. Yes, you do make more in Denmark, but the cost of living is also much higher than even here in San Diego (and we have the second highest cost of living in California ... behind San Francisco). Food costs twice to three times as much, transportation costs are about the same, and the taxes are higher (I also know for a fact the lowest tax rate in Denmark is 36% ... So I'd really lime to know how you were paying 33% in taxes). Most people pay 40-60% in taxes on their income. The state provides a lot of services, but you aren't really given a choice on paying them out of your paycheck though. I worked it out when I lived and worked in Denmark about $800 was taken out of my paycheck every month just for healthcare. I make about the same now here in California and I pay about $400 a month for my healthcare. In Copenhagen I spent about $100 a week on groceries and I hardly bought anything. By comparison I can spend $60 here for about the same amount of food, and that's after seven years on inflation on the dollar. And buying clothes in Denmark ... Forget it. The same jeans and tee shirts I could buy in Southern California for $100 and $20 (respectively) were $200 and $40 in Denmark. Even the Big Mac meal at McDonalds in Copenhagen was over $10 for the same thing you got in the US for $4.
post #55 of 68
When it's released in Hong Kong, I have no doubt we'll have the cheapest after-tax price in the world, outside of those few states that have no sales tax.
post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfpseller View Post

WOW I always thought California living style is pricey. Never comes to my mind that Denmark is that much more expensive. Does it cause by the dollar is so weak comparing to the Euro?

No, not really.

Denmark is just a tiny country with a small population. Even though the difference between rich and poor has increased a bit the Danish government (no matter which party is leading) wants everyone to be equal. So, if you're working your ass off, earning more than the typical Dane, taxes just increase for your part (a lot). The older and mid-age generation believe in the so-called "Jante Law" which "negatively portrays and criticizes success and achievement as unworthy and inappropriate" (from Wiki, but pretty accurate). So, even though you're running a company, creating tons of jobs for the population and paying higher taxes, thus contributing more and more to the society, you're considered a bad person. It's just a bad, bad attitude and some parts of the younger generation are also disregarding this principle (most just move away for some time).
Sure, we have benefits, too, such as free basic education but if you want a good education you need to pay either way - also in Denmark.

Denmark is very, very expensive. I have been a lot of places in the world but live in the very center of Copenhagen. Yes, we make more but the taxes are also extremely high.

And hey, our cars cost triple! Car price + 180 % in taxes. The politicians then use this money for champagne and expensive trips.. ehh, I meant roads and bridges.. :-)
post #57 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalle View Post

The Big Mac index is some measure of the relative cost of living - salaries vs. taxes, rent, food, etc. So doing the Big Mac index thing on the iPad 2 price in Denmark, I get

One Big Mac (standard issue) costs 27,00 DKK incl. VAT, the base iPad 2, costing 3699 DKK incl. VAT, hence

iPad 2 (Denmark) = 137 Big Macs

It's actually a relative measure of currency valuations. The "expensive" Big Mac countries are said to have relatively overvalued currencies, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

It's actually The Economist I believe.

Doh. Quite right.
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post #58 of 68
It is more of a straight up comparison country by country if tax is not included, That says what Apple is charging, not the local governments. Apple cannot control tax.

Lots of things go into pricing, exchange rates, transportation costs, retail costs... I believe the most overlooked here is how much are consumers WILLING to pay? Supply and Demand is very relevant here. Taking the tax out of the price & converting the currency, then expecting the price to be the same as in another country? We might want that to be true, but unlikely. Apple charges what they think we'll pay. In some places people pay more, as the competition is different.

You can certainly complain to Apple about price, but if the iPad 2 sells like hotcakes in your area, they won't care.
post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnielse View Post

No, not really.

Denmark is just a tiny country with a small population. Even though the difference between rich and poor has increased a bit the Danish government (no matter which party is leading) wants everyone to be equal. So, if you're working your ass off, earning more than the typical Dane, taxes just increase for your part (a lot). The older and mid-age generation believe in the so-called "Jante Law" which "negatively portrays and criticizes success and achievement as unworthy and inappropriate" (from Wiki, but pretty accurate). So, even though you're running a company, creating tons of jobs for the population and paying higher taxes, thus contributing more and more to the society, you're considered a bad person. It's just a bad, bad attitude and some parts of the younger generation are also disregarding this principle (most just move away for some time).
Sure, we have benefits, too, such as free basic education but if you want a good education you need to pay either way - also in Denmark.

Denmark is very, very expensive. I have been a lot of places in the world but live in the very center of Copenhagen. Yes, we make more but the taxes are also extremely high.

And hey, our cars cost triple! Car price + 180 % in taxes. The politicians then use this money for champagne and expensive trips.. ehh, I meant roads and bridges.. :-)

The cost of living in Scandinavia in general is very high, I've always been told, even by people who lived there. A few years ago, Oslo was listed as the most expensive in the world, passing Tokyo. My own experience in Stavanger, Norway was that things were very expensive. I recall paying about 58 kroner for two air mail post cards, about $9 US at the time. A meal for one person was about $50 US. I have never been to Denmark, but have told it is very similar. The Scandinavian countries always are very high on standard of living, so I guess people can still afford to buy things...

Beautiful countries, both, though! Love to go there!
post #60 of 68
Love my new iPad and orange smart cover. Lined up 2.5 hours before they went on sale at one of the small, obscure resellers in Sydney. I thought 2.5 hours was cutting it fine, but, surprisingly, there were only 6 people waiting in line. About an hour before launch the line was about 50+ deep. I really enjoyed the line up experience, chatting with the other Apple enthusiasts.

Lots of bystanders asked why so many people were lining up. We managed to convince a few that we were auditioning for Australian Idol/Next Top Model.
post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by antic4 View Post

Why Dont you ever give an idea of what tax people in the USA pay. I know it's generally different in each state but it gives the impression that a US citizen pays much less and everyone else gets ripped off.

Nice to see the UK price drop to £399 for the basic model.

State sales tax varies but it is generally between 6-10% except for the handful of states that have no sales taxes.

typically large cities have higher rates as they are able to tack extra taxes onto the state rates. Sales tax is 7% in Indiana, so the $499 ipad 2 cost me about $530.

how does it work over there, you have vat which is basically the same thing except tax is included in the sticker price, right?

- edit - Just read up on taxation in the UK, 40% on anything over 35k/yr AND 20% VAT? no wonder there are riots over cutting government services, no one has any money to take care of themselves as teh government has stolen like 60% of personal income.
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post #62 of 68
unfortunately, prices in Poland are even higher for the entry level iPad2: 2049zl =512 or $719 :-(
VAT=23%


Quote:
Originally Posted by oriste View Post

I know nobody cares but I'd like to correct the title anyhow: it's in GREECE that we pay the highest price for an iPad: US$716.315 (aka 509). We also know why Reuters tries to feed you misinformation: our PM -- in a moment of total mental bewilderment -- once declared that Greece wants to be the Denmark of the Mediterranean, and the (great) Danes have been after us ever since. This is just one more of their ploys.
post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

When it's released in Hong Kong, I have no doubt we'll have the cheapest after-tax price in the world, outside of those few states that have no sales tax.

Malaysia is competing well in terms of iPad prices too, surprisingly.

BTW man is the AUD KILLING the USD right now. 1.03 - All time highs!

Australian pricing for iPad 2 - OK, not mind-blowing, but not too much "premium".
post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

Love my new iPad and orange smart cover. Lined up 2.5 hours before they went on sale at one of the small, obscure resellers in Sydney. I thought 2.5 hours was cutting it fine, but, surprisingly, there were only 6 people waiting in line. About an hour before launch the line was about 50+ deep. I really enjoyed the line up experience, chatting with the other Apple enthusiasts.

Lots of bystanders asked why so many people were lining up. We managed to convince a few that we were auditioning for Australian Idol/Next Top Model.

Masterchef using iPads as cutting boards. A real mash-up (hurr... pun unintended) reality gameshow.
post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

I propose the next breaking news headline:
AC plugs on UK Macs are larger than those in the US - are US customers getting less for their money?

YES. US customers are losing out...! Because in many countries you get the UK style plug AS WELL AS the US plug. Same in Australia too. I got about at least five of them US style thingies lying around the house from past Mac purchases by the family.
post #66 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Malaysia is competing well in terms of iPad prices too, surprisingly.

BTW man is the AUD KILLING the USD right now. 1.03 - All time highs!

Australian pricing for iPad 2 - OK, not mind-blowing, but not too much "premium".

Did the price of the iPad change between v1 and v2? In Australian dollars, not US.
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post #67 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Did the price of the iPad change between v1 and v2? In Australian dollars, not US.

Yeah it dropped a bit, about $50 to $100 AUD. iPad2 has been sold out like mad the past several days.

Apple is being very aggressive, in fact the most aggressive I've seen in a decade, with their iPad pricing.
post #68 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yeah it dropped a bit, about $50 to $100 AUD. iPad2 has been sold out like mad the past several days.

Apple is being very aggressive, in fact the most aggressive I've seen in a decade, with their iPad pricing.

So you're not paying a "premium" after all, and in fact your prices have dropped. They didn't go down in the US. This only goes toward showing the silliness of converting all prices to US dollars and claiming people abroad are "paying a premium" when in reality the "premium" is the weakness of the US dollar.
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