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Apple unveils new 64-bit Final Cut Pro X - Page 3

post #81 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Lots of jobs available. NBC, Disney, ABC, CBS, PIXAR, even Apple. http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobs/li...c/l-california

If anything AVID is becoming a legacy system. The kids coming out of such highly deemed 'graphic' schools around the world such as the Carnegie Mellon University College of Fine Arts is more evidence of where the future is headed.

And as Apple cites, the list of high profilejust keeps growing. http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/in-action/


Those "kids" aren't going to drive the big corporate entities. The kids learn whatever tool is required to get hired.
post #82 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

No editor I've ever worked with in 15 years as a producer has come from an art school.

Graphics and editing have nothing to do with one another. Anyone who's serious about becoming a pro editor eventually learns AVID.

After having gone though an "art" school, they should all be shut down, sold off and the money used to repay the tuition of the students they stole it from.
post #83 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple on Tuesday took the wraps off a revolutionary 64-bit upgrade to Final Cut Pro, dubbed version X, which will arrive on the Mac App Store in June for just $299.

I'm confused. Did they actually say a complete new license will be $299, or is only the "upgrade" going to be $299? There's a lot of difference between those two items. I've bought lots of upgrades at reduced prices, but a new license of a professional app has almost never been so low, especially when being marketed to an industry like the video production world that pays close to that for a lens cap.

Either way, my FCP 7 license will get upgraded as soon as it's available. Heck, with a price like that, I may be able to justify a newer Mac Pro to run it on.

As for the huge download issue, I've elected to download versions of Adobe CS software suites for the past few years. In 2010 I went all the way and upgraded to the CS5 Master Suite. That was a monster download, made even worse because individual applications like Illustrator and Photoshop listed multiple packages of additional bonus software and extensions that in reality were merely duuplicate font and goodies files -- it probably added a superfluous 1Gb to my total downloads that evening. Just saying that while it's painful for some, I think many people have no problem with giant downloads anymore. It's part of (almost) instant gratification.
post #84 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

I'm confused. Did they actually say a complete new license will be $299, or is only the "upgrade" going to be $299?.

It's an "upgrade" in the sense that FCPX is a different version than FCP7. THat's all. The $299 is not an upgrade fee.
post #85 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

No editor I've ever worked with in 15 years as a producer has come from an art school.

Really? You mean none has ever been to art school, or not gone directly from Art School to editing professionally. I definitely believe the latter though I have know one or two ex art schoolers that have ended up as editors
Quote:
Graphics and editing have nothing to do with one another. Anyone who's serious about becoming a pro editor eventually learns AVID.

But people specialize. Knowing Avid is not the same as being highly experienced and thus your chances of being hired for major projects is pretty slim. If your projects are exclusively Avid based you would not be likely to hire an FCP editor.
post #86 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Lots of jobs available. NBC, Disney, ABC, CBS, PIXAR, even Apple. http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobs/li...c/l-california

If anything AVID is becoming a legacy system. The kids coming out of such highly deemed 'graphic' schools around the world such as the Carnegie Mellon University College of Fine Arts is more evidence of where the future is headed.

And as Apple cites, the list of high profilejust keeps growing. http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/in-action/

Where did you come up with this nonsense?

1. Avid is not a legacy program. It's actually a viable and current product that many professional editors use - including me. A lot of us have both but choose Avid over FCP.

2. Carnegie Mellon doesn't have a film or television program. I can tell you this as alumnus. CMU has a great art and design program but that's not what's dictating the tools that are used in the professional tv and film world.

3. This release of FCP will most likely drive most professional high end users back to Avid. That's just my opinion but it's also the buzz here at NAB.
post #87 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviduser View Post

This release of FCP will most likely drive most professional high end users back to Avid. That's just my opinion but it's also the buzz here at NAB.

Care to elaborate?
post #88 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessi View Post


I think Adobe's video editing just died. It isn't really used in the industry and the architecture is ancient and the usability is on the floor. I think Avid is just barely coming back from bankruptcy. I don't think Apple will kill them, but it isn't like they are in the dominant position in the industry. (I think Adobe fans and Avid fans talk like they are dominant, but the numbers really don't support it.. it is just wishful thinking.)

Nobody is making use of these core OS X capabilities-- such as grand central dispatch. They have been shipping for awhile, but why would Avid (or Adobe) rewrite their product that is a =

Adobe re-wrote Premiere Pro with CS5. It's a totally different product than what was around in the past. At NAB there are showing Premiere Pro CS 5.5 pushing 4k files natively while using thunderbolt on a macbook pro... and it's awesome. I'm not a Premiere Pro user but it definitely not the Premiere Pro of the 90's.
post #89 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lales View Post

"promising it will be as "revolutionary" as the first version of the software"

I'm a Apple fanboy, a very happy Apple stock owner, and a daily user of FCP.

HOWEVER... this is a promise to take with a grain of salt. The first version of FCP was revolutionary only for its price point, and NOT for any other technical or creative reason. One could make the point that Premiere Pro was first at that price point.


As usual they overstate. Not all cores-just 8-pathetic
post #90 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

It's an "upgrade" in the sense that FCPX is a different version than FCP7. THat's all. The $299 is not an upgrade fee.


What about the studio?
post #91 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviduser View Post

Adobe re-wrote Premiere Pro with CS5. It's a totally different product than what was around in the past. At NAB there are showing Premiere Pro CS 5.5 pushing 4k files natively while using thunderbolt on a macbook pro... and it's awesome. I'm not a Premiere Pro user but it definitely not the Premiere Pro of the 90's.

I shudder at the thought of Premiere and the 1990's in the same sentence. I took over a project for an ESPN series started on such a set up and still have nightmares. I managed to get it across to a Mac based Matrox which while not Avid was at least not prone to a crash of death on the last edit of the session as was Premiere.
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post #92 of 159
With Grand Central Dispatch the application doesn't determine how the cores are used OS X does. I'm not sure where people keep getting its limited to 8 cores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntson View Post

As usual they overstate. Not all cores-just 8-pathetic
post #93 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by revilre View Post

After having gone though an "art" school, they should all be shut down, sold off and the money used to repay the tuition of the students they stole it from.

I take it then that you didn't attend The Art Center College or Cranbrook or RISD or some similar? I doubt any grads from those institutions want their money back.
post #94 of 159
A new license will be $299. The Mac App Store does not allow you to upgrade from a license that was not originally obtained from the Mac App Store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

I'm confused. Did they actually say a complete new license will be $299, or is only the "upgrade" going to be $299?
post #95 of 159
Why do they believe that Apple is no longer interested in the pro market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

Even prior to yesterday's preview, they were seriously considering moving to something else due to Apple's disinterest in the pro market.
post #96 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

A new license will be $299. The Mac App Store does not allow you to upgrade from a license that was not originally obtained from the Mac App Store.

Thanks for that clarification. I am now officially gobsmacked at the new price.
post #97 of 159
No they didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveblue View Post

All the changes that were made were fairly predictable in my opinion. It looks like Apple just combined FCP, Color, and Soundtrack Pro into 1 App.
post #98 of 159
I've been scouring the internet for more videos (I saw Randy's close). I assume Apple will post one soon. Anyone any links to more vids of this product presentation?

By the way, I recall not too long ago a heated discussion here regarding the Mac Apps Store. Many stated that the likes of FCP would never be available on the Mac Apps Store after I suggested due to ever faster internet connections I suspect it might be, one day soon. Just wanted to say ... Told you so
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post #99 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I've been scouring the internet for more videos (I saw Randy's close). I assume Apple will post one soon. Anyone any links to more vids of this product presentation?

By the way, I recall not too long ago a heated discussion here regarding the Mac Apps Store. Many stated that the likes of FCP would never be available on the Mac Apps Store after I suggested due to ever faster internet connections I suspect it might be, one day soon. Just wanted to say ... Told you so

No Vids - I presume you saw Larry Jordan's Blog?
post #100 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by allmypeople View Post

Having used FCP for 9 years, I still am a bit hesitant on the interface.

Excited to give it a go though...

There are many things to like about FCP, but I still prefer certain aspects of Avid. Avid has a better work flow and bin system. Ingesting media is easier in Avid. File management seems simpler in Avid. Trimming and slip/slide are more intuitive in Avid. There are faster ways to accomplish often-used tasks in Avid. FCP has its pluses, of course. At least it did. I have not tried the newer Avid programs, but FCP was always simpler for making mpegs, DVDs and QuickTime files. I had to learn FCP, but my heart is Avid!
post #101 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwell View Post

No editor I've ever worked with in 15 years as a producer has come from an art school.

Graphics and editing have a symbiotic relationship. However, when I was in film school, we were not expected to do graphics work. That was the purview of the art school or graphic arts department.

Anyone who's serious about becoming a pro editor eventually learns AVID.

While I agree that graphics and editing are separate disciplines, clients demand that we know both. This is the new reality. Cheap post-production trumps mastery. When I bought my first Avid, it was $75,000 for one seat. You had to be a serious pro to afford that investment. Clients were willing to pay us for our talent and investment in tech and demanded we had the latest-greatest equipment. Now, for $299 plus a Mac and monitor, you, too, can be a "pro" editor. The barrier of entry is so low, a caveman can do it. Now, asking corporate clients for a wage that is more or less equal to a plumber's hourly wage, we are told, is too much. They hire the kid in the mail room who has iMovie on his laptop. Which reminds me of a joke: A plumber hands his bill to the homeowner. The homeowners says "Geez, my doctor doesn't even charge this much". The plumber replies, "yeah, I know, I used to be a doctor".
post #102 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviduser View Post

Where did you come up with this nonsense?

1. Avid is not a legacy program. It's actually a viable and current product that many professional editors use - including me. A lot of us have both but choose Avid over FCP.

2. Carnegie Mellon doesn't have a film or television program. I can tell you this as alumnus. CMU has a great art and design program but that's not what's dictating the tools that are used in the professional tv and film world.

3. This release of FCP will most likely drive most professional high end users back to Avid. That's just my opinion but it's also the buzz here at NAB.

1. I never said it is a legacy program.

2. Perhaps not, however, Carnegie Mellon and virtually all the like schools will eventually force the industry towards the newer options.
http://www.cmu.edu/computing/softwar...pro/index.html
http://www.cmu.edu/computing/software/all/index.html

3. Unless the trend is being reversed, evidence indicates to the contrary.
http://ace-filmeditors.org/blog/2009...y-full-results

In today's economy, the $ will win out. Films aren't being made with million dollar cameras. Heck, we are now seeing major efforts using cell phones.

The old guys, and I am one of them, will buck and buck with our older stuff. Primarily because man is a creature of habit. But our kids won't stand for it faced with technology that defies following in our footsteps.

And for sure, unless we oldies are willing to fund their future, we will be looking for the less expensive way out and hope they are as artistic as we were.
post #103 of 159
Yes this is the situation across the entire film/video production chain. Cheaper trumps talent and experience.

The reason why Apple is willing to sell FCP at $299. That and the fact that Apple actually makes its money on hardware not software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceedits View Post

While I agree that graphics and editing are separate disciplines, clients demand that we know both.
post #104 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceedits View Post

While I agree that graphics and editing are separate disciplines, clients demand that we know both. This is the new reality. Cheap post-production trumps mastery. When I bought my first Avid, it was $75,000 for one seat. You had to be a serious pro to afford that investment. Clients were willing to pay us for our talent and investment in tech and demanded we had the latest-greatest equipment. Now, for $299 plus a Mac and monitor, you, too, can be a "pro" editor. The barrier of entry is so low, a caveman can do it. Now, asking corporate clients for a wage that is more or less equal to a plumber's hourly wage, we are told, is too much. They hire the kid in the mail room who has iMovie on his laptop. Which reminds me of a joke: A plumber hands his bill to the homeowner. The homeowners says "Geez, my doctor doesn't even charge this much". The plumber replies, "yeah, I know, I used to be a doctor".

^^^GREAT post^^^ This reminds me of the "desktop publishing" era, and what the graphic design business has become since then. Walmart Wednesday PC-special + torrent CS5 and/or CorelDraw... and, "you too can make logos, corporate ID's, signage, etc. etc... and become a Millionaire in just 1 year!"

Becoming a millionaire is just as likely as those folks every creating a "professional" logo or CI.... but they'll still call themselves a "professional graphic designer". And sadly, clients will hold up their work and prices, against a trained and seasoned professional, "look what we got for just 50.- bucks!".

Turn around... walk out... take a deep breath... and consider digging water wells in the Sahara as an alternative to dealing with this crap! :
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post #105 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

No, they do use GCD but they specified 8 cores max at the event.

This is not correct. Listen to the presentation -- they said ALL cores. Why would they have an arbitrary limit when they are starting the code from scratch?
post #106 of 159
Anyone know if any mention was made of the ability to open - or somehow work with projects done in the current version of FCP?

I've got a rather huge project that I'm expected to start in about 2 weeks. If I knew I could continue working on it with the new version I'd jump right in, but if not I think I'd just as well wait. Trouble with that is I'd worry about missing deadlines!
post #107 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

No Vids - I presume you saw Larry Jordan's Blog?

No I hadn't. Thanks for the link.
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post #108 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni714 View Post

Anyone know if any mention was made of the ability to open - or somehow work with projects done in the current version of FCP?

I've got a rather huge project that I'm expected to start in about 2 weeks. If I knew I could continue working on it with the new version I'd jump right in, but if not I think I'd just as well wait. Trouble with that is I'd worry about missing deadlines!

Well I bet like me you will make a clone of the current work and try to see what happens but make damn sure you have everything still running in 7
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post #109 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvolino View Post

This is not correct. Listen to the presentation -- they said ALL cores. Why would they have an arbitrary limit when they are starting the code from scratch?

I think it was an older edit of this story that said eight. I don't know why they would do that either, the idea didn't sound right.
post #110 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni714 View Post

Anyone know if any mention was made of the ability to open - or somehow work with projects done in the current version of FCP?

I've got a rather huge project that I'm expected to start in about 2 weeks. If I knew I could continue working on it with the new version I'd jump right in, but if not I think I'd just as well wait. Trouble with that is I'd worry about missing deadlines!

Sounds VERY sketchy to rely on anything that has not been thoroughly tried and tested with a huge project. If the new version requires different work flow procedures you could be up shit creek even if it was available today and you chose to dive in. Nothing worse than being stuck mid project with incomprehensible technical problems.

Personally I would go with tried and tested until you can check that box against the new software. There are too many unknowns.

But once you get the new software installed you can always do what digitalclips suggested if you have the time. Probably too tempting not to do so.
post #111 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviduser View Post

3. This release of FCP will most likely drive most professional high end users back to Avid. That's just my opinion but it's also the buzz here at NAB.

I tend to agree that this might be a possibility. Some people will use FCP no matter what Apple does or does not do to it (few have a problem with replacing the timeline with an iMovie like filmstrip, seriously? Is it just me? Hope some semblance of a timeline is still in there). I for one, have access to the latest Premiere, Avid Media Composer, and FCP (we have all three on our editing labs and roll out updates regularly) and will not use FCP if the UI is in fact anything like iMovie's (I hate that freaking that filmstrip, HATE IT). I personally don't like Premiere so I guess that would just leave Avid or sticking with FCP 7 as long as I can.

I'll try it, try to learn it, and then see. Of course, this also depends on what Apple does with Compressor and Color (which I use as much as FCP).

Video:
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/13/...now-available/
post #112 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Sounds VERY sketchy to rely on anything that has not been thoroughly tried and tested with a huge project. If the new version requires different work flow procedures you could be up shit creek even if it was available today and you chose to dive in. Nothing worse than being stuck mid project with incomprehensible technical problems.

Personally I would go with tried and tested until you can check that box against the new software. There are too many unknowns.

But once you get the new software installed you can always do what digitalclips suggested if you have the time. Probably too tempting not to do so.

This is what I was thinking. It's probably not a good idea to upgrade software mid-project unless you have a specific reason to do so. With a significant update like this, it's probably a good idea to start a small project to familiarize with the changes.
post #113 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceedits View Post

While I agree that graphics and editing are separate disciplines, clients demand that we know both. This is the new reality. Cheap post-production trumps mastery. When I bought my first Avid, it was $75,000 for one seat. You had to be a serious pro to afford that investment. Clients were willing to pay us for our talent and investment in tech and demanded we had the latest-greatest equipment. Now, for $299 plus a Mac and monitor, you, too, can be a "pro" editor. The barrier of entry is so low, a caveman can do it. Now, asking corporate clients for a wage that is more or less equal to a plumber's hourly wage, we are told, is too much. They hire the kid in the mail room who has iMovie on his laptop. Which reminds me of a joke: A plumber hands his bill to the homeowner. The homeowners says "Geez, my doctor doesn't even charge this much". The plumber replies, "yeah, I know, I used to be a doctor".

The digitization of everything means wages flatten because previously high-cost functions migrate to the lowest cost supplier. This means "farms" of editors will spring up in India, China, Philippines, or anyplace with a low cost professional workforce.

Additionally, in the near future when A.I. "pro" systems are common to the desktop, you can expect everything ranging from artificially intelligent editing systems, medical advice systems, design advice, investment advice, etc. ... every highly paid profession that can be boiled down to their elements will move in that direction.

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post #114 of 159
Larry Jordan offers his unique perspective in his blog from last night, "The Sound of 1,700 Jaws Dropping," which one person on Twitter said was, "A great, detailed review of the "sneak peek" of Final Cut Pro." http://www.larryjordan.biz/goodies/blog.html
post #115 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraP View Post

Larry Jordan offers his unique perspective in his blog from last night, "The Sound of 1,700 Jaws Dropping," which one person on Twitter said was, "A great, detailed review of the "sneak peek" of Final Cut Pro." http://www.larryjordan.biz/goodies/blog.html

Currently the only thing worth reading about FCPX IMO.
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post #116 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The digitization of everything means wages flatten because previously high-cost functions migrate to the lowest cost supplier. This means "farms" of editors will spring up in India, China, Philippines, or anyplace with a low cost professional workforce.

Additionally, in the near future when A.I. "pro" systems are common to the desktop, you can expect everything ranging from artificially intelligent editing systems, medical advice systems, design advice, investment advice, etc. ... every highly paid profession that can be boiled down to their elements will move in that direction.

In the past, I liked to be able to concentrate on the edit, the story, the flow of the cut. I did not want to start thinking about titles flying in or animating text or background crap. I enjoyed turning that work over to a Flame artist or a really good After Effects artist. I did not have the time to sit down and learn a rather complex, new program. I also liked collaborating with another talent, who could bring another perspective to the project. I still do, but budgets are so reduced, that only larger, commercial or ad agency clients want to spend the money it takes for high quality results. I did learn Apple Motion. It is not as powerful as After Effects, but does certain things well. It lacks the plug-ins for AE. It is like an iPhone vs. Android. The iPhone has 100,000 apps available, while Android may have 5,000.
Anyway, I might take up the Avid $995 offer. It is like wearing a pair of comfortable, old shoes. FCP has always felt like I was editing with mittens on my hands.
post #117 of 159
Someone recorded the whole thing in HD and uploaded it to Vimeo.

Part 1 of the presentation is here: http://www.vimeo.com/22329493
and you can find part 2 in his vids on the sidebar.
post #118 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

No, they do use GCD but they specified 8 cores max at the event.

That could very well change in an update
post #119 of 159
I just dont get what all the bitching is about.

Have any of the people complaining about this unreleased FCP X watched the presentation?

The timeline is there... better than ever.
It's visual, intuitive and powerful.

I've always hated iMovie from day 1.

THIS IS NO IMOVIE.
post #120 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

According to the reports I've read they made no mention of Final Cut Express. Did they actually say it or are you making that assumption? I suspect you may be right but I would like to hear it from Apple.

They actually said it. He said something along the lines of "In the past you've had Express and Studio..." and then "now we're making it easy for you, Final Cut Pro X, $299, in the App Store"

I'm paraphrasing, but he said it.

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