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Die Another Day....

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 
This is one average movie. I am really speechless at the moment as to expressing more complete thoughts. More in the afternoon.
post #2 of 68
I have some really good things to post about this too. Maybe next week.

Thanks.
post #3 of 68
Thread Starter 
So you liked the movie? I thought the dialouge dragged in most parts. I didn't like the pro-American tilt to the movie that we didn't see in Tomorrow Never Dies where M goes "Unlike the CIA/FBI, we don't get our news from CNN." Instead we have an all-American looking agent instructing M that if "you can't control your agent, WE WILL." Once again, we have the stereotypes that the goodguys are white, the bad guys are Asian, and the woman is the deceitful one.

I rank the Pierce films like this:
1. Golden Eye (#2 all time I would think, behind Goldfinger)
2. Tomorrow Never Dies
3. Die Another Day
4. The World is not Enough

Don't kid yourself though. The latter three movies all had substandard scripts. Nothing like GoldenEye.
post #4 of 68
I haven't seen it, but the WSJ said it sucked.
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post #5 of 68
why did they choose Halle berry :confused: :confused: <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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post #6 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by stunned:
<strong>why did they choose Halle berry :confused: :confused: :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>
I can think of two reasons:





The dialogue in Die Another Day is just awful. Bond and Jinx's innuendo is childish and makes you cringe. In most Bond movies, it makes you groan and slap your head, but not cringe.

And what kind of a name is "Jinx"? Or "Miranda Frost"? Sigh.

And the tag line! "He's Never Been Cooler." Jeez. And the surfing scene. Bleh. He's not Vin Diesel.

[Edit: I noticed in Berry's close-ups, she had very bad skin. Not that I'm being bitchy, or anything.]

[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
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post #7 of 68
Thread Starter 
Well....

Halle Barre happens to be a great actress- just not in this one. She's too over-the-top American with that last line, "BITCH!" I thought the innuendo was the movie's higher point. Oh, Bond Girls have always had OTT names. This is nothing new.
post #8 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>Well....

Halle Barre happens to be a great actress- just not in this one. She's too over-the-top American with that last line, "BITCH!" I thought the innuendo was the movie's higher point. Oh, Bond Girls have always had OTT names. This is nothing new.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Heh, I think "Pussy Galore" from Goldfinger tops them all. As for the dialogue, well...I haven't even seen it yet and already it looks trashy. I cringed when they had that clip of her saying "Yo' Mama!" . <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

On a related vein, I read a funny joke about how there's so much product placement in this Bond film that industry wags are calling it "*Buy* Another Day".
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post #9 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>Oh, Bond Girls have always had OTT names. This is nothing new.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That was my point. The names in Die Another Day are pathetic!

Apparently Halle Berry wanted "Cinnamon Buns".
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post #10 of 68
I think that's the whole purpose of the Bond films. People go to see them knowing they'll be full of action, cheesy one liners and innuendo. It's all part and parcel of the James Bond 'institution'. It has become very dated though. The Bond / Austin Powers thing has come full cycle.

[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: RodUK ]</p>
post #11 of 68
Thread Starter 
They totally wasted her talent. I heard there will be a Jinx spin-off- the first of its kind in Bond film history.

I thought the torture scene opening and the fencing scene was cool.
post #12 of 68
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by RodUK:
<strong>I think that's the whole purpose of the Bond films. People go to see them knowing they'll be full of action, cheesy one liners and innuendo. It's all part and parcel of the James Bond 'institution'.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not really. I think that's what it has become in the last 7 years but did you see GoldenEye? That movie was great! It shows that modern Bond films can indeed be good... Though both Dalton films are better than the last three Pierce films.
post #13 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>I thought the torture scene opening and the fencing scene was cool.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, the fencing was pretty good, especially because it seemed that the two actors were doing a lot of it themselves, rather than stand-ins.
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post #14 of 68
I was thinking about seeing it today, but I'll probably just maintain my relaxing, "do nothing" Saturday and catch it next weekend (or one night this week?) and let the crowds die down a bit.

I like Brosnan's take on Bond. Best one since Connery (although, I guess that's not saying a lot, is it?).

There have been several white guy villians over the years: Jonathan Pryce, Goldfinger, Christopher Walken, Donald Pleasance, Christopher Lee, the white haired-guy with the underwater base, Sean Bean, Robert Davi, Richard Kiel (Jaws), the head villian in "Moonraker" (see his face, just don't know his name), etc.

If every Bond movie had an Asian or whatever as the villian, then I'd totally agree that the franchise might be stereotyping a bit. But it's been a pretty healthy mix over the years.

And there are usually two women: a good one and a vixen-ish, "bad" one (who usually ends up getting what's coming to her). In the end, the sweet, smart girl wins out and ends up with Bond.

In any case, these movies are what they are. Pretty much on auto-pilot at this point and we go just for the thrill and the cool swagger and gadgetry.

At least I do.

Trying to nitpick or elevate a Bond film to Merchant Ivory heights just isn't going to fly.



Yeah, extremely cheesy at time, for sure. The worst parts about all Bond films has been the dialogue. Someone should re-mix the DVDs with the audio taken out and replaced with music and forest sounds.



But we all dig the stunts, the sexual playfulness, the action, etc.

Totally one of those "leave your common sense and critical eye in the lobby" kind of movies. And as long as you accept that, going in, they're pretty fun to watch.

I always see every Bond film, no matter what. A tradition, I guess.
post #15 of 68
Steele, Remington Steele... HAHAHHA!!!
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post #16 of 68
My opinion is that Brosnan needs to go.

The guy is a wimp. When you're such a wimp, no matter how hard you try it's not going to work well when you have to play a very hardened individual. And yes, I agree that Roger Moore was pretty wimpy, but at least he had an innate sense of humor. Pierce has neither.

I also think the scripting could use some work. Right now I get tired of seeing so many explosions. I'd rather see some degree of mystery. Another thing I like about Bond films are the locations. In the older Bond films, there is some fabulous footage of interesting places in Europe and Asia, and I think it adds a lot.

As for cliches, Bond films have always had them. Before, the enemies were mostly some sort of Communists, or Spectre, the comic-bookish crime syndicate. In the last 4 films, it seems as though there hasn't been nearly the same adherence to formula & cliche.
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post #17 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>II like Brosnan's take on Bond. Best one since Connery</strong><hr></blockquote>

I actually liked Roger Moore nearly as much as Connery. Always thought he had real class without flaunting it. Still does, BTW.

I think Brosnan is a bit more of a Mr. Handsome who works on his looks and his general 'way' a little too much (for my liking). But hey, he does a good enough job. Not like that 'under her majesty's secret service' lackluster citygent.
post #18 of 68
How can people compare Bond to regular movies? It is in a class by itself. The terrible diologue makes it great! The whole point seems to be missed by you guys. I don't get why people can't just go see a movie anymore and just enjoy it. Everyone has to act all intellectual and sophisticated by trashing the movie and over analyzing it. I don't get it <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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post #19 of 68
I know, trashing the Brosnan Bond is a bit like pretending Connery or Moore were Cinema D'arte. It is what it is, non of them have ever been great cinema, but they're fun, celluloid comic strips. (or whatever film is printed on these days.)
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post #20 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>
Steele, Remington Steele... HAHAHHA!!!
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

I LOVED that show, and Banacek too. I wonder if you can get them on DVD.
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post #21 of 68
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>How can people compare Bond to regular movies? It is in a class by itself. The terrible diologue makes it great! The whole point seems to be missed by you guys. I don't get why people can't just go see a movie anymore and just enjoy it. Everyone has to act all intellectual and sophisticated by trashing the movie and over analyzing it. I don't get it :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>

No...the point is to be a good movie. "Terrible" dialouge is certainly not a virtue for a good movie.
post #22 of 68
My favorite Bond actor was always Roger Moore. because he knew exactly how campy the whole to-do was. He also had the best comic timing and delivery verbally and with his facial expressions.

Ebert and A.O. Scott of the NY Times seemed to like it. Ebert felt that Berry was at least not just eye candy ("Oh, James, you're so incorrigible!"). Scott seemed to feel that it at least took a few interesting curls along its inevitable path. But he didn't like the ending at all.

I'm sure I'll either see this with my Dad one Christmas shopping afternoon, or catch it on TV much later.
post #23 of 68
Bond movies are so cliche. I wonder how many times they can rehash the same old formula. Yeesh. Ian Fleming must be rolling in his grave. Bond's not even his best creation...that honor goes to Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
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post #24 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>Bond movies are so cliche. I wonder how many times they can rehash the same old formula. Yeesh. Ian Fleming must be rolling in his grave. Bond's not even his best creation...that honor goes to Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Child Catcher still terrifies me in a way Blofeld never could. :eek:
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post #25 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
[QB the head villian in "Moonraker" (see his face, just don't know his name), etc.

.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

His name is Mickael Lonsdale, he is a very good actor. Perhaps we know him more in France. He played in a lot of moovie and he has a delicious accent (at leas in French) he has played with Sean Connery in the film of JJ Anaud The name of the Rose (from a book of Umberto Eco).
post #26 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:
<strong>Another thing I like about Bond films are the locations. In the older Bond films, there is some fabulous footage of interesting places in Europe and Asia, and I think it adds a lot.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm more familiar with the earlier Bond films (I lost track of them after the mid-70s), and they contributed much to my desire to travel.

As for product placement, that's an old story, and not an always very successful one might add (one remembers rather bland AMC cars featured in one of Roger's Bonds).
Advertising was already pervasive in other movies of the time, as in J. P. Belmondo comandeering a delivery lorry of Le Pain Turner: King Corn in ÂLe GuignoloÂ, the four co-stars of ÂL'Aventure c'est l'Aventure being locked up in a Pepsi tank-truck, or the immense billboard saying ÂVolate SABENA*, avec SABENA vous y seriez déjÃ*! earlier in that same film.

*Given the news events involving SABENA planes back in the early 70s, when that film was made, it was somewhat humourous.
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post #27 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:
<strong>

His name is Mickael Lonsdale, he is a very good actor. Perhaps we know him more in France. He played in a lot of moovie and he has a delicious accent (at leas in French) he has played with Sean Connery in the film of JJ Anaud The name of the Rose (from a book of Umberto Eco).</strong><hr></blockquote>

His English accent is OK as well, while I remember him mostly form Stavisky and Monsieur Klein, his role of the abbott Abo in The Name Of The Rose was really along his habit of portraying rather polite but less than trustworthy characters.
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post #28 of 68
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein:
<strong>
As for product placement, that's an old story, and not an always very successful one might add (one remembers rather bland AMC cars featured in one of Roger's Bonds).</strong><hr></blockquote>

In Die Another Day, product placement is fairly prominent. We see a new Phillips poster in an abandonded subway station, plugs for Aston Martin ("Aston Martin calls [the car] the Vanquish, we call in the Vanish"), close-ups of a Sony-Ericson phone, and undoubtedly other advertisements. There's nothing really to detract from though. This movie is pretty average fare even for a Bond film.
post #29 of 68
Come on guys, we all know that there's really only 1 Bond film, it's just been made 20 times. And who cares, I'll probably see this one sometime this week. Bond is about the action, kick-ass cars, sweet gadgets, and beautiful women. Always has been, always will be. When I eatch James Bond, I'm not really worrying about the plot, or the really quality movie making, I'm there to see the good guy kick some evil ass with the rocket launchers behind the head lights of his remotely controlled, bullet-proof car one more time <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: SledgeHammer ]</p>
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post #30 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by SledgeHammer:
<strong>Come on guys, we all know that there's really only 1 Bond film, it's just been made 20 times. And who cares, I'll probably see this one sometime this week. Bond is about the action, kick-ass cars, sweet gadgets, and beautiful women. Always has been, always will be. When I eatch James Bond, I'm not really worrying about the plot, or the really quality movie making, I'm there to see the good guy kick some evil ass with the rocket launchers behind the head lights of his remotely controlled, bullet-proof car one more time <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: SledgeHammer ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

...and see him get countless hot women into the sack with only a couple sexual innuendos.
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post #31 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>

In Die Another Day, product placement is fairly prominent. We see a new Phillips poster in an abandonded subway station, plugs for Aston Martin ("Aston Martin calls [the car] the Vanquish, we call in the Vanish"), close-ups of a Sony-Ericson phone, and undoubtedly other advertisements. There's nothing really to detract from though. This movie is pretty average fare even for a Bond film.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I personally like product placement. To me, it makes the movie seem more real, like it's actually happening in the real world. Another example is when some people couldn't stop whining about the product placement in Minority Report, but I thought it was great!
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post #32 of 68
Thread Starter 
Yep, no arguments here.
post #33 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>

In Die Another Day, product placement is fairly prominent. We see a new Phillips poster in an abandonded subway station, plugs for Aston Martin ("Aston Martin calls [the car] the Vanquish, we call in the Vanish"), close-ups of a Sony-Ericson phone, and undoubtedly other advertisements. There's nothing really to detract from though. This movie is pretty average fare even for a Bond film.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The much reported previous defection to BMW was rather tasteless, so the return to Aston-Martin which is a return to the old ways (let's disregard Ford's ownership of the marque for a moment) in a positive way, but all aside form that the film sounds a bit boring.
So one again, I won't be detracting from my ingrained ignoring of the Bond franchise.

[Edited for clarity]

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: Immanuel Goldstein ]</p>
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post #34 of 68
I'm fine with product placement when it's all part of the story, and not intrusive. There were no gratuitous close-ups of the Jaguar, Ford, or Aston Martin logos.

However, there was a horribly gratuitous shot of the plastic dome box that Bond's electric shaver was delivered in at the hotel. I can even remember the brand was Philishave, and I'm not really in the market for one.
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post #35 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
However, there was a horribly gratuitous shot of the plastic dome box that Bond's electric shaver was delivered in at the hotel. I can even remember the brand was Philishave, and I'm not really in the market for one. </strong><hr></blockquote>

strange, I didn't even notice it <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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post #36 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:
<strong>strange, I didn't even notice it <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Tsk. Probably concentrating on your popcorn.

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post #37 of 68
We just saw the flick the other night and the first thing that raised the "what were they thinking!?" groans was that atrocious Madonna title track. It had nothing to do with Bond, the movie, and sounded like it was recorded by and for robots. As for her acting...

The English speakers in the audience were laughing a lot more throughout than the folks reading the French and german subtitles, so I guess that old-fashioned Brit dialogue just doesn't translate. But everyone loved John Cleese.
post #38 of 68
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by anamac:
<strong>We just saw the flick the other night and the first thing that raised the "what were they thinking!?" groans was that atrocious Madonna title track. It had nothing to do with Bond, the movie, and sounded like it was recorded by and for robots. As for her acting...

The English speakers in the audience were laughing a lot more throughout than the folks reading the French and german subtitles, so I guess that old-fashioned Brit dialogue just doesn't translate. But everyone loved John Cleese.</strong><hr></blockquote>

1. Atrocious...maybe.
2. Nothing to do with the movie? <a href="http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/madonna/dieanotherday.html" target="_blank">Decide for yourself.</a>
3. Yes, her cameo actually didn't suck! Surpising, huh?

[ 11-27-2002: Message edited by: ShawnPatrickJoyce ]</p>
post #39 of 68
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>Bond's not even his best creation...that honor goes to Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is a messed up movie. I honestly think that no one should be exposed to that movie unless completely strung out on cocaine, or as a means of psychological torture.

Die Another Day was almost as bad. Period.

My friend, who keeps up with all the other Brosnan Bond flix (where I don't), said to me, "That was bad. The others up to now haven't been nearly as bad as this one. You should see them." I may, but it'll take some time after this one.
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post #40 of 68
I thought it would be terrible after all these horror stories. After seeing the flick today, I'd have to rank it tied with GoldenEye for the best Brosnan flick. The World is Not Enough is dead last. Tomorrow Never Dies was pretty bad despiter Michelle Yeoh.

No, it's no From Russia With Love or Goldfinger, but eh...Bond started getting old with Roger Moore...

Now the thought of MGM/UA giving Halle Berry's character a spin-off is intriguing. Bond with Bazongas...a sure hit!
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