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The Left: Economic Schizophrenia - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Here's the mystery you guys haven't solved: youth protests have nothing to do with issues, they have everything to do with hooking up. This "Occupy Wall Street" charade will stop soon, and nobody will remember, or care. Ultimately, this is not the best thing because the Government-Financial complex is a disaster that needs resolution from both sides (government side and bank side). I wouldn't mind a witch hunt, to be honest, but these protesters aren't exactly of that type of fortitude.
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post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Ah, so the key is simplifying the tax system and closing loopholes. Which is the very thing Obama is trying to do with the Buffett rule.

That is the boilerplate, but it's not going to happen because most of Obama's financial benefactors hoard money offshore. To criminalize offshore hoarding, Obama would have to coupled it with an agenda to lower corporate taxes to a manageable level (US corp taxes are world's highest, by far). Otherwise it's just stupid, because we'd all move our entire businesses out of the country instead of just the IP holding companies.

Lastly, please move back to America and pay full american taxes before getting on the "raise taxes" bandwagon. Sorry, but until then you're just spear-chucking. I would also like it for the rest of the world to raise taxes so that the USA doesn't have to suffer as an occupying army in war-torn areas that other nations would have a better chance at re-building (due to closer cultural ties), but I guess I just suck it up and deal with it.
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post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Denmark is still the best place in the world to start a new business

I strongly disagree with this comment. When has Denmark ever been the best place to start a business?

- Most european countries have difficult labor laws that make it costly to manage small businesses, or startups, because it is extremely expensive to fire/lay-off workers. Denmark is one of these countries.

- Some european countries have extensive loopholes or tax credits for certain types of businesses. For example, Holland has measures that make it attractive for "green tech" R&D, but the labor laws are still a problem. The Neuchatel area of switzerland has very attractive tax deference for semiconductor companies and other electronics firms, and reasonable labor laws, but the cost of living is extremely high. There are other examples as well, but none of them involve Denmark.
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post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

That is the boilerplate, but it's not going to happen because most of Obama's financial benefactors hoard money offshore. To criminalize offshore hoarding, Obama would have to coupled it with an agenda to lower corporate taxes to a manageable level (US corp taxes are world's highest, by far). Otherwise it's just stupid, because we'd all move our entire businesses out of the country instead of just the IP holding companies.

Lastly, please move back to America and pay full american taxes before getting on the "raise taxes" bandwagon. Sorry, but until then you're just spear-chucking. I would also like it for the rest of the world to raise taxes so that the USA doesn't have to suffer as an occupying army in war-torn areas that other nations would have a better chance at re-building (due to closer cultural ties), but I guess I just suck it up and deal with it.

First of all, the US does not have the world's highest corporate taxes, not by far and not at all. Second, maximum corporate tax rate means nothing. It's effective tax rate that matters. The US has a very average effective corporate tax rate, so stop talking in non-sequiturs, please.

Secondly, I'd love it for the US to get out of most International politics, especially any and all "peace keeping", which is almost entirely "war keeping" for US factions. Why do we have to wait for other nations to act. Just get the fuck out, and slash the military. What is so hard about that concept?

Third, I have a wife and daughter I love and lifelong friends I adore. I don't choose to live in Hong Kong for taxes. To tell you the truth, one of the main reasons I'm here, besides being settled, is that so many Americans are complete and utter assholes. I haven't experienced as many assholes anywhere else in the world. Perhaps the US should solve the asshole problem and more foreigners would invest there, and more citizens would stay there. Oh, and guns, and dependence on cars, and the shitty banking system. There are sooooo many reasons not to live in the US besides taxes.
post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

First of all, the US does not have the world's highest corporate taxes, not by far and not at all. Second, maximum corporate tax rate means nothing. It's effective tax rate that matters. The US has among the world's lowest effective corporate tax rate, so stop talking in non-sequiturs, please.

Please back this up. I am a business owner, and when I compare the taxes I pay to those some of my overseas partners pay, I'm always paying more. Japan used to have similar corp-tax as the USA, but they lowered it recently, making ours tops. We also have a payroll tax in the form of FICA & Medicare taxes done through the corporation (half done by corp, half by employee). We also have to provide medical benefits through the corporation, a high hidden tax. So, please show me the facts.

Only a small number of companies out there are able to dump profits in offshore tax havens (Bermuda is a popular one). Most of them (Apple, Google, to name two) have shown big support to US democrats in the past via Jobs and Schmidt, so it's doubtful Obama has any plans to thwart the top 1%-ers, in this case Apple and Google.


Quote:
I have a wife and daughter I love and lifelong friends I adore. I don't choose to live in Hong Kong for taxes. ... There are sooooo many reasons not to live in the US besides taxes.

You and Warren Buffett are free to voluntarily pay the US Treasury with your non-taxed, extra income. But you don't. So it's just shit coming out of your mouth.
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post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Please back this up. I am a business owner, and when I compare the taxes I pay to those some of my overseas partners pay, I'm always paying more. Japan used to have similar corp-tax as the USA, but they lowered it recently, making ours tops. We also have a payroll tax in the form of FICA & Medicare taxes done through the corporation (half done by corp, half by employee). We also have to provide medical benefits through the corporation, a high hidden tax. So, please show me the facts.

Only a small number of companies out there are able to dump profits in offshore tax havens (Bermuda is a popular one). Most of them (Apple, Google, to name two) have shown big support to US democrats in the past via Jobs and Schmidt, so it's doubtful Obama has any plans to thwart the top 1%-ers, in this case Apple and Google.



You and Warren Buffett are free to voluntarily pay the US Treasury with your non-taxed, extra income. But you don't. So it's just shit coming out of your mouth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/bu...y/03rates.html
post #47 of 68
Yesterday I got my $30+ back from the Australian government for my doctor's out-of-pocket consultation fee of $65. I felt like hugging the clerk but that would have freaked everybody out... She was also very no-nonsense, later I saw her getting some pizza for lunch, she was pregnant, which could explain her no-nonsense attitude... and that she was craving pizza. In that particular small government office most people in line were like, c'mon, keep it movin', let's all get our monies. I felt like shouting at the top of my lungs, do you know how lucky we all are motherfuckers, do you know the rest of the world is going down the tubes????!!!

But then I went and spent the money on Xbox360 points to buy Bastion. I felt a bit guilty but It would've been what the right-wing would have wanted me to do... you know, spend, spend, spend.
post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yesterday I got my $30+ back from the Australian government for my doctor's out-of-pocket consultation fee of $65. I felt like hugging the clerk but that would have freaked everybody out... She was also very no-nonsense, later I saw her getting some pizza for lunch, she was pregnant, which could explain her no-nonsense attitude... and that she was craving pizza. In that particular small government office most people in line were like, c'mon, keep it movin', let's all get our monies. I felt like shouting at the top of my lungs, do you know how lucky we all are motherfuckers, do you know the rest of the world is going down the tubes????!!!

But then I went and spent the money on Xbox360 points to buy Bastion. I felt a bit guilty but It would've been what the right-wing would have wanted me to do... you know, spend, spend, spend.

When you delve into the left in the U.S and their authoritarian ways, you'll understand why some of the wonderful things you note have failed to come to pass.

First you got money back for money you had paid in. You gave the doctor $65 and you received $30 of it back. This would be racist in the United States or it would mean you hate the poor. We are told it is not appropriate to expect anything of the poor in the U.S. Why even having to go see the clerk and get the money back would be too large a burden of shame to shoulder. We are told that requiring free state issued I.D.'s for verification of voting is racist. We are told that if an immigrant who is federally required to carry their papers for them is asked for them during a traffic stop for another crime, that it is Nazism. You can't give someone food stamps, you have to give them an state debit card and allow it to be used in all sorts of inappropriate manners or else you are hateful and racist because someone might note they are getting help.

Then you take the second half of the problem. This group of people for whom movement and expectation is an unimaginable burden, well they end up rather bad off. They are unemployable. They are obese. They indulge in far too many vices and still expect all to be well regardless of their choices. Also you can never judge their actions because they would never KNOWINGLY make all these bad choices. The problem can only ever be ignorance. So when they smoke, then need large pictures of mouth cancer to inform them of their choices. The fast food they buy with their ETB/Food stamp card needs the calories in bold print next to it so they will consider their expanding waist line. Every person who interacts with them is predatory, greedy and will take advantage of their ignorance. Even the businesses they deal with are attempting to harm them even while providing what many might call a fair deal or a decent value.

So now we move to that pregnant woman you encountered. How dare you expect her to work in her state. It is your fault she can't stay home and be a mom and also your fault her partner doesn't earn enough to support her in such a manner and that she has to work. Clearly she doesn't want to work. Who would want such a menial and mentally unchallenging job unless it was to put food in their mouth and clothes on their back. She clearly has no choice about working and that is YOUR fault. Look at her choice of food. It is fatty, high carb, processed and high calorie. She is pregnant for goodness sakes and ought to be eating organic, locally grown veggies and small quantities of protein be it grass-fed beef or plant based alternatives.

The fact that she made any of those choices, the mundane job, the high calorie food, perhaps even the choice to become pregnant. They aren't really her choices. She acts in ignorance or as a victim of environment. You are the uncaring and the oppressor who crafted that environment and you fail to provider her utopia since you care so little about your fellow humans. If you just taxed all the pizza, no one would choose it and it the more expensive foods would be chosen when they now are not due in part to price.

It's all your fault.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #49 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Here is a private message that SDW2001 sent to me some months ago.




Getting personal? Getting angry? Bullying people?

Perfectly fine when it's you.

You can do anything if you have right wing politics. Normal rules simply don't apply. Get personal, write violent things, try and bully people?

That's fine. You just need right wing politics.

At least I'm not a classless piece of shit who posts private messages publicly.
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post #50 of 68
Quote:

Do you read?

Quote:
But by taking advantage of myriad breaks and loopholes that other countries generally do not offer, United States corporations pay only slightly more on average than their counterparts in other industrial countries.

So, therefore, the big companies that are getting bailouts or are sending money offshore are offsetting the rest of us who pay way above the norm. Even so, our average is still higher. Do you understand the word average? Have you spent too long speaking Cantonese to understand letters?
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post #51 of 68
It's looking pretty ugly for Europe.

Quote:
Even today, the jobless rate for youth is near 10pc in Japan. It is already 46pc in Spain, 43pc in Greece, 32pc in Ireland, and 27pc in Italy. We will discover over time what yet more debt deleveraging will do to these societies.

There's prosperity for you. It's quite a good read though so give it a try.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

At least I'm not a classless piece of shit who posts private messages publicly.

Hi SDW.

Firstly I've reported you for calling me a piece of shit, not that it'll make any difference.

Secondly. You sent me a bullying, offensive private message calling me a 'fucktard'.

And now you call me 'classless'. OK.

I'll make you a deal.

You don't send me bullying, offensive bullshit... and I solemnly promise not to share any offensive, bullying bullshit messages that you send in private. So everyone can see.

Cool?
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

At least I'm not a classless piece of shit who posts private messages publicly.

He just does it to get your goat. I've sent him PM's with the title:Please share where I say all sorts of things. He won't share them because they won't bother me. So if it won't bother you the result will be the same.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #54 of 68
Well, you just sent me a weird private message telling me [REDACTED FOR THE SENSITIVITIES OF YOUNGER VISITORS TO THIS FORUM] and stuff, very curiously, and not for the first time (even more curiously), but no—I won't share it. The quicker I can get the images out of my mind the better.

Although I am considering sharing the message with a moderator, because it's frankly weird.
post #55 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Well, you just sent me a weird private message telling me [REDACTED FOR THE SENSITIVITIES OF YOUNGER VISITORS TO THIS FORUM] and stuff, very curiously, and not for the first time (even more curiously), but noI won't share it. The quicker I can get the images out of my mind the better.

Although I am considering sharing the message with a moderator, because it's frankly weird.

Did you share with the moderator that you are Hassan i Sabbath and have been banned from these forums multiple times?

Oh wait... I meant to put that in a PM but with some people posting them in public forums or referring to PM's in public forums, I must have gotten confused.

It's interesting that you would call what I posted weird. It's just part of nature and normal. Keep your phobias in the PM's unless you want to reveal an intolerant nature.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Did you share with the moderator that you are Hassan i Sabbath and have been banned from these forums multiple times?

Oh wait... I meant to put that in a PM but with some people posting them in public forums or referring to PM's in public forums, I must have gotten confused.

It's interesting that you would call what I posted weird. It's just part of nature and normal. Keep your phobias in the PM's unless you want to reveal an intolerant nature.

Oh, no, there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. I'm all in favour of the uninhibited expression of sexual attraction, even between sexes.

Just not with you.
post #57 of 68
I've actually met Mumbo Jumbo, and he's actually a very classy person. Intelligent, extremely literate, interesting, fashionable and kind. I would say "cool".

What I find extremely classless is sending a message like the one Mumbo posted here. I find the message classless and I assume the person behind the message must be a very classless individual. I don't find sharing that classlessness in the context of this discussion with others to be classless in the least.

I guess that's just me being elitist.
post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I've actually met Mumbo Jumbo, and he's actually a very classy person. Intelligent, extremely literate, interesting, fashionable and kind. I would say "cool".

What I find extremely classless is sending a message like the one Mumbo posted here. I find the message classless and I assume the person behind the message must be a very classless individual. I don't find sharing that classlessness in the context of this discussion with others to be classless in the least.

I guess that's just me being elitist.

I guess we will just have to sentence SDW to be part of the 99% and as part of the 1% you can support him for the rest of your life.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #59 of 68
I just listened to a variety of audio clips from Occupy sites. I am not juding any of them, and this is TWO HOURS long, but it's worth a listen. Includes Michael Moore, Ron Paul, and Alex Jones. The clips fall into line with the original poster's initial topic.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/r...08?i=101825674
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post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

At least I'm not a classless piece of shit who posts private messages publicly.

You did send that awful message. Would you not consider that message itself classless? Wow, you've reached a new low.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #61 of 68
I love everyone, especially Tonton and trumptman, although the latter platonically, and I'm listening to Sun Ra.
post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

I love everyone, especially Tonton and trumptman, although the latter platonically, and I'm listening to Sun Ra.

You save all your special love for Tonton? I'm so sad.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I guess we will just have to sentence SDW to be part of the 99% and as part of the 1% you can support him for the rest of your life.

I'm personally not part of the 1%, but I do pay my taxes, which indirectly help people like SDW who may have fallen on hard times. I'm so sorry to hear of the bad news.
post #64 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You did send that awful message. Would you not consider that message itself classless? Wow, you've reached a new low.

I think both of you are crybabies. You can certainly dish it out...but taking it? That's another matter.
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post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I think both of you are crybabies. You can certainly dish it out...but taking it? That's another matter.

I can take it fine.

But if you're going to send me that kind of shit you don't get to complain when everyone else can see.

That is being a 'crybaby'.
post #66 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

I can take it fine.

But if you're going to send me that kind of shit you don't get to complain when everyone else can see.

That is being a 'crybaby'.

If you want to rip me--privately for what I sent to you--privately, that's fine. Posting PM's in public is just despicable.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #67 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

If you want to rip me--privately for what I sent to you--privately, that's fine. Posting PM's in public is just despicable.

Wait, you want to be able to bully me, but you're demanding the right to keep it private?

Who do you think you are?

You don't get to decide. You waved goodbye to the moral high ground the moment you pressed 'send'.

'Despicable'. I'll tell you what's 'despicable'. That's telling people to shut up in private and then whining when they object.
post #68 of 68
Thread Starter 
Time for a bumpity bump bump:

DNC Chair Wasserman-Schultz denies unemployment has gone up under Obama.

Dirty Harry Reid says that "millionaire job creators are like unicorns...they don't exist"

Shultz has been a loon in most of the interviews which I've seen. Reid's comment shows the basic ignorance of liberals with regard to how jobs are created and what benefits the economy. Let the schizophrenic meltdown continue!
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