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Microsoft still taking Apple on head-to-head in continued retail expansion - Page 3

post #81 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by drandel View Post

I wish MS tons of success with this.  I'd love to see them give Apple some competition. 

 

But so far, MS has only scratched the surface of having their own hard products to sell.  Let's see ... there's soft stuff, Windows and it's many flavors (including Home Server); Office (I wonder if they sell Office for Mac in those stores??); and ... uh ... yeah, the hard Surface thing. 

 

Another problem: Can the Microsoft Wise Guys (well, you can't really call them Geniuses, can you?) really help you find the right machine for you?  Good luck.

 

I'm hoping that Dell is going to get with the program at some point, but so far they're pretty disappointing.  Not that I'd personally buy a Dell, but Dell is better positioned to do retail than Microsoft, and it could (maybe, might) be some measure of competition added to the market mix.

 

DELL and HPQ stocks are flirting with 52-week lows!

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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #82 of 134

This is why Microsoft is loosing money. They don't have their own success strategy. They are simply using their financial strength to try and match every move Apple makes.

 

Its like trying to win a game of chess by copying your opponents moves.

post #83 of 134

For all the complaining about Microsoft, you all seem to forget that without them, Apple wouldn't even be here.

 

So before you go insulting a company, which by the way still continues to offer great products at a great price, and revolutionize every industry they touch, you should remember Apples entire existence is owed to Microsoft.

 

Not only that, but do any of you brilliant economists understand what would happen to Apple OR Microsoft if either one didn't have the other to compete with?  You can see it when Apple dropped the ball and started to go under.  Microsoft was declared a monopoly.  They also bailed out Apple and allowed them to pursue the ipod, which singlehandedly turned the entire company around.

 

Yeah, Microsoft, WHO NEEDS 'EM (Except literally every person here.)

post #84 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

This is why Microsoft is loosing money. They don't have their own success strategy. They are simply using their financial strength to try and match every move Apple makes.

 

Its like trying to win a game of chess by copying your opponents moves.

 



Well there are blatant examples of Apple doing the same thing, but more to your statement about them not having a success strategy - in recent years they released inarguably the BEST operating system ever made, Windows 7, and are proceeding to bring full Windows functionality to tablets while Apple and Google continue to push for the mobile OS solution.

 

Not only that, but do you not see the success of the XBox 360?  They are dominating PS3, and with the advent of the Kinect, they are poised to absolutely revolutionize home computing, ney, home ENTERTAINMENT.  The Kinect will someday bind the gaming consoles with the full function of a PC, and before you know it, you've got Minority Report style interaction with computers, all thanks to Microsoft and their financial strength.

 

You can say they have no success, but I can show you how to waste money and go under.  Using your money properly is a strategy for success, the most obvious one in fact.

post #85 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

For all the complaining about Microsoft, you all seem to forget that without them, Apple wouldn't even be here.

So before you go insulting a company, which by the way still continues to offer great products at a great price, and revolutionize every industry they touch, you should remember Apples entire existence is owed to Microsoft.

Not only that, but do any of you brilliant economists understand what would happen to Apple OR Microsoft if either one didn't have the other to compete with?  You can see it when Apple dropped the ball and started to go under.  Microsoft was declared a monopoly.  They also bailed out Apple and allowed them to pursue the ipod, which singlehandedly turned the entire company around.

Yeah, Microsoft, WHO NEEDS 'EM (Except literally every person here.)

You mean because MS begrudgingly invested $150 million in non-voting shares as part of a cross-license agreement and not to be sued for stealing QT code? Is that how you think MS saved Apple despite Apple still having $1.2 billion in cash when this deal was made?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #86 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You mean because MS begrudgingly invested $150 million in non-voting shares as part of a cross-license agreement and not to be sued for stealing QT code? Is that how you think MS saved Apple despite Apple still having $1.2 billion in cash when this deal was made?

 

You can't change the past, my friend.  Microsoft cared very little about such things, and if Apple had 1.2 billion on hand, $150 million wouldn't have been touted as what saved Apple.  Microsoft's investment was focused on expanding to a platform to run their software on.  Do you not remember the investment also came with Office, Internet Explorer, and other MS products to the Macintosh?
 

So Apple, a company that will go after anyone and anything in court to edge out more profits for themselves, decided to FOREGO an opportunity for a lot more money, all so they could make that quick $150 million they didn't actually need, and offer Microsoft software for their computers?  I think not.

 

The most likely explanation was simply that Apple needed money and the antitrust stuff really wasn't the major motivating factor, as much as Apple fans claim it is.

post #87 of 134

Outstanding, I hope they build as many as Apple has because it won't cause a dent in Apple's appeal or sales. This is great for Americans who need jobs. Finally Microsoft is doing something right. lol.gif
 

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post #88 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

Good call on the count genovelle. Over the past three years, you are comparing a total visitor registry for M/soft of 13 million, to a three year Apple visitor registry of 1,245,816,000 or 1.245 billion. Any further analysis of this disparity only deepens the embarrassing nature of the Microsoft Store concept and delivery.
Once again Mr. Ballmer demonstrates that ihe s fixated to the detriment of his company on Apple.
Neil, can you really call this "head to head" when the numbers are so badly unbalanced?

What would really be embarrassing would be to compare revenue per store! MSFT's number of visitors would look like a huge success in comparison.
post #89 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

For all the complaining about Microsoft, you all seem to forget that without them, Apple wouldn't even be here.

 

So before you go insulting a company, which by the way still continues to offer great products at a great price, and revolutionize every industry they touch, you should remember Apples entire existence is owed to Microsoft.

 

Not only that, but do any of you brilliant economists understand what would happen to Apple OR Microsoft if either one didn't have the other to compete with?  You can see it when Apple dropped the ball and started to go under.  Microsoft was declared a monopoly.  They also bailed out Apple and allowed them to pursue the ipod, which singlehandedly turned the entire company around.

 

Yeah, Microsoft, WHO NEEDS 'EM (Except literally every person here.)

No one has ever needed MSFT. People just used them anyway. MSFT set the standard for office software but has chosen to be MIA for so long now that people don't miss them. 

post #90 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

You can't change the past, my friend.  Microsoft cared very little about such things, and if Apple had 1.2 billion on hand, $150 million wouldn't have been touted as what saved Apple.  Microsoft's investment was focused on expanding to a platform to run their software on.  Do you not remember the investment also came with Office, Internet Explorer, and other MS products to the Macintosh?

 
So Apple, a company that will go after anyone and anything in court to edge out more profits for themselves, decided to FOREGO an opportunity for a lot more money, all so they could make that quick $150 million they didn't actually need, and offer Microsoft software for their computers?  I think not.

The most likely explanation was simply that Apple needed money and the antitrust stuff really wasn't the major motivating factor, as much as Apple fans claim it is.

Everything you've written is so far off base. Bottom line is was an investment for Apple's customers that MS would not be pulling out of the Mac ecosystem. That's the whole reason Jobs had Gates teleconference into the event. It was this all-saving bank loan that you've imagined.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #91 of 134

I think Microsoft is missing their target audience.   Trying to compete with Apple with fancy stores in malls or high-rent shopping districts is a waste of time and money.

 

They should focus on improving customer service by having locations with a drive-thru window.  

 

 

And a bald clown head to give your orders to.

post #92 of 134

1500


Edited by benanderson89 - 8/2/12 at 2:38pm

... at night.

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post #93 of 134

LOL. You beat me to it. How better to promote your company than to advertise a dead product that failed miserably when it was alive.

 

Seriously, what are these people thinking?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steverance View Post

Microsoft's new store at the Westchester Mall in White Plains, N.Y., is set to open soon ... With Zune!!!

 

700

post #94 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You mean because MS begrudgingly invested $150 million in non-voting shares as part of a cross-license agreement and not to be sued for stealing QT code? Is that how you think MS saved Apple despite Apple still having $1.2 billion in cash when this deal was made?

 

Ahh... All this talk of money...

 

I just received my 12 DVD set of old Jean Shepherd TV shows... One of my favorites is "Filthy Rich, At Last"

 

 

Jean starts out showing a picture of a $10,000 bill...

 

700

 

After according it due honor and deference, he asks:

 

"Whose picture is on the $10,000 bill?"

 

Then:

 

"You probably have one in your wallet -- why don't you pull it out and look at the face..."

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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- Michael Lille -
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post #95 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

 

P.S., NOT asking to get a full-blown account as was done in Matt Rosoff's article in Business Insider, HEAD TO HEAD BATTLE: Microsoft Store Vs. Apple Store — Which Is Better?

I read that article and I just laughed at it. He praises Microsoft on certain areas because the Apple store was too crowded, therefore dampening the experience. Then he praises the Apple store from sheer bias.

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post #96 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc54 View Post

please, not the dreaded line dancing!

But that was spontaneous. No, really. It was.

Honest.

post #97 of 134

"In the case of Apple Stores, Apple is selling end-to-end solutions, after sale service and support and customer satisfaction -- the competition is just movin' the meat!"

 

funny and true.  agree.

lol

post #98 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

Maybe they're counting people that return items ;-)

 

Or people who run screaming from the store.

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

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post #99 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

And a bald clown head to give your orders to.

 

Love it.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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post #100 of 134

Microsoft and Apple are also opening retail stores in the newly opened City Creek Center in Salt Lake City.

 

Microsoft had taken out a permit for a store when rumors of Apple moving to CCC came out, but then M$ canceled their permit when no sign of Apple on the horizon, but after the mall opened, Apple decided to open a store there after all and then a few weeks later, Microsoft took out another building permit.

post #101 of 134

Locating a MS stores near Apple stores is like Jake's Grill n Gas next to an Applebee and planning on sucking off of their traffic.

post #102 of 134

When a company plays "follow the leader" they are tacitly admitting who the "LEADER is.

 

When a company's business plan is to do what the other guy does, they are automatically going to be late for every party. In the case of MS, it's like six years late.

post #103 of 134

If you can't beat 'em, copy 'em.

post #104 of 134

Just to compare how it works. Recently a new MS store opened in Danbury mall. I went there during the opening (they were giving free concert tickets, they had some competition and giveaways) and then again a week later, about the same time in the afternoon. The second picture was taken from the distance to be able see at least few people inside...

 

Opening day (click for bigger size)

 

700

 

 

One week later (click for bigger size)

 

700

 

 

 

I won't even mention my feelings when I walked inside and saw all those fugly plastic laptops and randomly arranged various color desktop components without any matching style and compared the prices to near Apple Store just to find out the prices were almost the same.

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... 6x slower!
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post #105 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

This is why Microsoft is loosing money. They don't have their own success strategy. They are simply using their financial strength to try and match every move Apple makes.

 

Its like trying to win a game of chess by copying your opponents moves.

 


Well there are blatant examples of Apple doing the same thing, but more to your statement about them not having a success strategy - in recent years they released inarguably the BEST operating system ever made, Windows 7, and are proceeding to bring full Windows functionality to tablets while Apple and Google continue to push for the mobile OS solution.

 

Not only that, but do you not see the success of the XBox 360?  They are dominating PS3, and with the advent of the Kinect, they are poised to absolutely revolutionize home computing, ney, home ENTERTAINMENT.  The Kinect will someday bind the gaming consoles with the full function of a PC, and before you know it, you've got Minority Report style interaction with computers, all thanks to Microsoft and their financial strength.

 

You can say they have no success, but I can show you how to waste money and go under.  Using your money properly is a strategy for success, the most obvious one in fact.

 

 

- Ok, so with the XBox 360 they are not trying to copy Apple's strategy, they are copying Sony. 

 

- The Kinect, while taking an innovative and somewhat new direction, is still a direct counter to Nintendo's motion controls.

 

- Windows 7, and the entire direction of their OS division is a direct response of the strong consumer rejection of Vista and the perceived rise of Mac OS. 

 

- Microsoft tries to salvage their reputation by countering Apple's switch adds with "I'm a PC"

Apple cancels their switch adds and takes a new direction in advertising.

 

- Windows Phone, a direct response to iOS and Android, which both decimated Microsoft's mobile share.

 

- Windows 8, a direct response to the iPad and the tablet boom.

 

- Surface Tablet, a response to Google's Nexus strategy.

 

Every move they make, they are simply trying to catch up with or out-gun their competition.

And while MS tries to match them move for move, their competitors are taking chances and making huge leaps and bounds, like Apple with its Retina display technology or Google with project glass.

 

And while you can say that Xbox and Windows are both successful platforms, the company still lost money, which is what happens when you throw cash around like that.

post #106 of 134

A little off the track....but the MS logo looks strange in the photo above. I have never seen one in real life but the all yellow bottom right hand box as shows up in the photo is weird. Sort of says "we are 3/4 sure of what we are doing - 1) make software...2) open shops near Apple .... 3) yellow  placeholder  ....4) profit!"

post #107 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I wonder what MS will call the Geniuses in their stores...

Wizards. "Press Next to Continue."

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post #108 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I hadn't played around with WIndows 7, since I haven't even touched a Windows computer in several years.  I don't know what the Windows users are thinking, but that was the just the most horrific experience I had in a long time.  I helping a friend "fix" their laptop.  It just gave me one more reason to stick with Apple.  And the owner of the laptop wants to replace it with an Apple.

Microsoft can put up all the retail stores in the world, it's not going to change the fact that WIndows is just a COMPLETE bad OS.  It's just not friendly at all.  It's like a bunch of computer geeks trying to figure out can they can confuse the user as much as possible.  It's just a joke.

There were a couple of small features I thought were cool, but the rest of the OS, is junk.

Wow, M$ is going to add 11 retail stores?  REALLY?  Well, by the time they get 11 more stores, Apple will also have more stores. At the rate M$ is adding stores, it will take them 40 years to catch up.

Yeah, 40 years?  That sounds about right.

I believe many Windows 7 users would think you are a liar, and a very sad one.

That is basically a rule of thumb when someone comes out with a strong statement, but incidentally misses to put in any argument at all.
post #109 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

LOL. You beat me to it. How better to promote your company than to advertise a dead product that failed miserably when it was alive.

Seriously, what are these people thinking?

It is not a problem with their thinking, it is a problem with your knowledge.

Zune nowadays is desktop software, doing pretty much what iTunes does for Apple; media player and organizer, portal to apps, music, movies store etc. It is designed with Metro GUI and works pretty sweet.
post #110 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

It is not a problem with their thinking, it is a problem with your knowledge.
Zune nowadays is desktop software, doing pretty much what iTunes does for Apple; media player and organizer, portal to apps, music, movies store etc. It is designed with Metro GUI and works pretty sweet.

I'm not sure this is entirely correct. MS has been working towards dumping the Zune brand for some time.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2821128/microsoft-kills-zune-windows-live-branding-in-windows-8

Which is a good thing in my opinion. The brand is too closely associated with their failed music player.
post #111 of 134
Quote:
- Ok, so with the XBox 360 they are not trying to copy Apple's strategy, they are copying Sony.

Even if that is true, what is the point? Sony was copying Nintendo and Sega. They were copying Atari. Atari was copying darn Pong. Anyway, MS didn't copy Sony - they improved on formula. Xbox Live brought functional online gaming to consoles, and original Xbox, even if not successful, was much better hardware than PS2. And then, X360 came out a year before PS3 and was basically was competing with PS2 for a whole year. Xbox improvement in gaming, both performance and services wise, was comparable to what iPhone brought to smartphone market, compared to competition at the time.

And this comes from PS3/PS2/PSP/PSOne owner and gamer.
Quote:
- The Kinect, while taking an innovative and somewhat new direction, is still a direct counter to Nintendo's motion controls.

Not true. Nintendo controller is hand-help controler with motion sensors. Kinect is whole-body-sensitive-controller technology. Difference between them, in my mind, is not any lesser than difference between Palm Tungsten and iPhone. Probably larger.
Quote:
- Windows 7, and the entire direction of their OS division is a direct response of the strong consumer rejection of Vista and the perceived rise of Mac OS.

Windows 7 came 3 years after Vista. Most new Windows OSs came 3 years after previous version. Windows 8 is coming 3 years after Windows 7, regardless of how successful 7 is. 3 years is standard MS timeframe for OS development, XP being a paradox of a sort. Rise of OSX, perceivable or not - and really hardly perceivable from MS perspective, so far - has nothing to do with it.
Quote:
- Surface Tablet, a response to Google's Nexus strategy.

I cannot recall that that Nexus is offering full desktop features in tablet form. Nor do I recall that Surface (or even Surface RT) are going to compete with Nexus in terms of form factor or price. What are you trying to say here?
post #112 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

I'm not sure this is entirely correct. MS has been working towards dumping the Zune brand for some time.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2821128/microsoft-kills-zune-windows-live-branding-in-windows-8
Which is a good thing in my opinion. The brand is too closely associated with their failed music player.

I agree that keeping "Zune" moniker is not the luckiest association they could have came up with, but it is still the only software to use for downloading apps, music, TV... from Windows MarketPlace, and for "servicing" Windows Phones and, I believe, Xbox to some degree. At least I'm not aware there is anything else available there.

And you can still download it from http://www.zune.net/en-GB/.

I'm sure if MS completely ditch it or re-brand it, their shops will mirror that change. But for now, Zune it is...
post #113 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabberattack View Post

Just to compare how it works. Recently a new MS store opened in Danbury mall. I went there during the opening (they were giving free concert tickets, they had some competition and giveaways) and then again a week later, about the same time in the afternoon. The second picture was taken from the distance to be able see at least few people inside...

 

Opening day (click for bigger size)

 

700

 

 

One week later (click for bigger size)

 

700

 

 

 

I won't even mention my feelings when I walked inside and saw all those fugly plastic laptops and randomly arranged various color desktop components without any matching style and compared the prices to near Apple Store just to find out the prices were almost the same.

It looks to me like most of the people in there on the first picture are staff.

post #114 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Even if that is true, what is the point? Sony was copying Nintendo and Sega. They were copying Atari. Atari was copying darn Pong. Anyway, MS didn't copy Sony - they improved on formula. Xbox Live brought functional online gaming to consoles, and original Xbox, even if not successful, was much better hardware than PS2. And then, X360 came out a year before PS3 and was basically was competing with PS2 for a whole year. Xbox improvement in gaming, both performance and services wise, was comparable to what iPhone brought to smartphone market, compared to competition at the time.
And this comes from PS3/PS2/PSP/PSOne owner and gamer.
Not true. Nintendo controller is hand-help controler with motion sensors. Kinect is whole-body-sensitive-controller technology. Difference between them, in my mind, is not any lesser than difference between Palm Tungsten and iPhone. Probably larger.
Windows 7 came 3 years after Vista. Most new Windows OSs came 3 years after previous version. Windows 8 is coming 3 years after Windows 7, regardless of how successful 7 is. 3 years is standard MS timeframe for OS development, XP being a paradox of a sort. Rise of OSX, perceivable or not - and really hardly perceivable from MS perspective, so far - has nothing to do with it.
I cannot recall that that Nexus is offering full desktop features in tablet form. Nor do I recall that Surface (or even Surface RT) are going to compete with Nexus in terms of form factor or price. What are you trying to say here?

 

Kinect, yes technically very different than wii however, still released to compete with Nintendo. Look at Kinect launch games and its very obvious what market they went after.

 

Windows 7 was targeted to take back market share from Apple, since Vista was so bad it caused a small boom in Mac adoption at the time. People from MS have even admitted this. It worked too, Windows 7 was a huge success. However, Apple then shifted into their current "Post PC" strategy, which is why we have Windows 8 (countering "Post PC" with "PC Plus"). Not really arguing about how often MS updates their OS, but its very clear when you look at what they are updating and what features they are adding who they are trying to compete with.

 

And surface tablet? They are designing their own hardware. Probably for the same reasons Google does it with the Nexus platform. Hardware manufacturers apparently need a common target, or benchmark. There isn't really any other logical reason to do it when your primary business is software licensing.

 

And yes, Surface will compete with Nexus. This is a market with only one clearly successful tablet device. Nobody has figured out how to compete with iPad yet, Nobody knows what price point will be able to compete with iPad. A cheaper android tablet? A more expensive windows one? Only time will tell.

 

Still, very cat and mouse if you ask me, and the mouse seems to be getting away with the cheese.

post #115 of 134

The first Microsoft Store opened in Scottsdale, Ariz., in October of 2009, attempting to replicate some of the great success Apple has had opening its own stores across the world. The Microsoft Stores borrow ideas from Apple, including a "Guru Bar" akin to Apple's Genius Bars where employees assist customers, and Microsoft even attempted tohire away some Apple retail employees for its own operations.

 

Majorcrap continues to be in Apple copy me mode with 'borrowing' ideas seemingly the major focus. They can open all the retail stores they want. Too bad they have nothing worthwhile to sell...

post #116 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

I have 5 Apple Stores in my metro area.  Including the Mall of America which has the (at the time) largest Microsoft store across the hallway (literally).  I think the only thing that keeps the MS store somewhat filled is the LegoLand playground next to it, so one parent can come in while the others are out playing in the duplo pit. 

The apple store has a table for the kids, so no problems there;-)  The microsoft store... it has nice lightly used couches.

The reason why Apple has 5 stores in the Minneapolis/StPaul area is that the MOA is supposedly the highest value store in US in terms of $$/sqft/year.  You would swear that Apple gives away shopping bags at the MOA, as everyone seems to have one as they troll the stores (note, there are 3 Best Buy stores in the mall as well).  Microsoft,  I have to say I've never seen a MS bag in all my days in the Mall (not many, but at least 4 shopping days a year.)
Heh, I noticed the same thing last time I was at the MOA Apple store. If MS didn't have Xbox NOBODY would come to their stores.
post #117 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

DELL and HPQ stocks are flirting with 52-week lows!
How big is Dell's PC business these days? Seems like their focus is more on server/enterprise these days.
post #118 of 134

"Seize opportunity by the beard, for it is bald behind."

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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #119 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 

Well, then... whatta 'bout Snoop Lion Lion?

 

 

I was thinking "Tex As" might be cool, if I wanna drawl out some country western...

 

"Louis Iana" would be smooth for a jazz act...

 

Or, a twins act, "North Dakota" and "South Dakota"...

 

The girl rapper could call herself "Miss Issippi"...

 

Man, you can do this all day! I think I won't…. :P

post #120 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

"Developers".

 

A "Developer Bar" in the back, "Developer on Developer" sessions… 

 

 

hey, get a room!

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