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Apple's iPad now definitively replacing PC sales in education

post #1 of 39
9/4/12 at 5:24am
Thread Starter 
Market data in the June quarter showed with certainty for the first time ever that Apple's iPad is replacing sales of traditional PCs to schools and students, according to one analysis.

Charlie Wolf with Needham & Company said in a note to investors on Tuesday that PC education shipments fell by 265,000 units, or 13.9 percent, from the June quarter a year ago. Apple, meanwhile, sold nearly a million iPads in the K-12 market in June, which he said is "definitive evidence" that the iPad has been "cannibalizing" PC sales in the U.S. education market.

Apple's iPad sales in the June quarter were double what the company sold a year prior. The iPad also reached nearly double the number of Macs Apple sold to education buyers during the quarter.

"Clearly, a significant portion of iPad sales represented an expansion of the market," Wolf wrote. "But in view of the fact that Mac sales held steady at around 520,000 units but overall PC sales declined by 265,000 units from 1.90 million to 1.64 million units, we believe the inescapable conclusion is that the iPad is beginning to cannibalize a material portion of PC sales in this market."

In Wolf's view, sales of the iPad to the education market are only the beginning. He believes the iPad will begin to meaningfully chip away at PC sales in other, larger markets in the near future.

Needham


"In our view, the education market is the canary in the coal mine," Wolf wrote. "The next market the iPad is likely to impact is the much larger U.S. home market."

While the iPad had a strong June quarter, it was a mixed bag for the Mac. Sales of the Mac were strong in the U.S. business market, where it saw 56.6 percent year-over-year growth compared to an 8.8 percent decline in PC sales, but the worldwide home Mac sales fell 4.6 percent.

Apple reported in July that it had reached a new all-time quarterly record for iPad sales, reaching 17 million. Mac sales, however, grew only 2 percent year over year, but that was still enough for a new June quarter record on sales of 4 million units.
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post #2 of 39
9/4/12 at 5:57am

Sheez! What a horrible chart! Looks like an excel creation....ever heard of Pages?

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post #3 of 39
9/4/12 at 5:58am

I sure hope this dude knows what he's talking about and this really is happening.  After all the negative things I've heard about how useless iPads are for everything, I was beginning to wonder if it was actually going to replace low-end PCs.  I had recently heard a few back-to-school spots saying that Windows netbooks were gaining traction at the low-end for students not wanting to pay for even $399 tablets (iPad).  I wasn't entirely sure a tablet could replace a computer with a keyboard for students and that students would need to buy some Bluetooth keyboard to do any decent typing.  The one problem remains is whether the lower cost alone of a Windows netbook would win out over the iPad with all things being considered.  If the iPad becomes the student's choice in education, Apple will really have control that sector unless the warnings of iPad commoditization come true.  I wonder if Apple can evolve the iPad into something even more powerful to fully take the place of low-end computing.  I also hope that Apple will be able to meet iPad demand if tablet numbers in education suddenly explodes.  Apple can certainly use two solid revenue drivers to boost revenue and hopefully, the share price will follow.

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post #4 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:05am

My GF teaches at a Charter School and they just bought all new iMacs for the teachers...one iMac per classroom. My GF also got an iPad which, for the most part, has replaced her old Dell POS laptop. The iPad has not quite replaced the laptop yet. She could do with an MBA as well. But fortunately we have an iMac at home. But she does all her email on the iPad which is quite a considerable part of her job.

 

It just kills me though, they go to the expense of getting iMacs and they insist on using Google Gmail, Google Docs, and Firefox...what idiots! It's so fragmented and just doesn't work that well. She's have a tough time with it b/c she's used to Apple Mail, Safari and iWork.

 

It is amazing to me how many people still don't understand the Apple ecosystem. I see people with iPads and Android phones! Bought because the phone was cheap! Ugh! 

 

Or worse no iPad and just an Android phone! :)

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post #5 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:07am
Home user here. I sold my MBP a couple of months after I got an iPad. We now have two iPads in the house. I believe that within two or three more years, I won't even have my iMacs any more. The future is calling..
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post #6 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:08am
Quote:
One of the arguments in favour of an iPad Mini is that it's needed for the education market but the iPad 2 starting at $399 woukd appear to be serving that market well.

Children, from what I've observed, have no problem with the current iPad. It's claimed they do but that complaint isn't coming from them.

If price is the issue, keep the iPad 2 around for still another year and lower the price still further. It's a perfectly viable device in no need of a major upgrade as a budget option.
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post #7 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMacGuy View Post

Home user here. I sold my MBP a couple of months after I got an iPad. We now have two iPads in the house. I believe that within two or three more years, I won't even have my iMacs any more. The future is calling..

I so agree with you on this....My iMac is the original intel 20" and although I would really like to replace it with an MBA and have ML and full on iCloud capabilities...I seem to be doing OK with my iP4s, and iPad and the old iMac.

 

When it dies, I don't think I will replace it with another iMac. Perhaps an 11" MBA, an iPad 7" an iP5 and an IOS printer and I can do all that for just about the price of a new iMac.

 

The most expensive part of a computer is the screen....I'm going save $'s on not getting an iMac and invest the $'s saved into a large screen ATV when they come out! Have the large screen where I really need it! :)

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post #8 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:23am

The PC industry did not see this coming, and ignored it and thought people would never abandon a PC. 30 yrs ago Main frame and terminal (Client/Server computing) were big and PCs was taking its lunch away. Now we have the ipad (terminal device) in conjunction with cloud computing (main frame) take away the PC lunch. Unless your in one of those two camps or both the future success will not be very good.

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post #9 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

The PC industry did not see this coming, and ignored it and thought people would never abandon a PC. 30 yrs ago Main frame and terminal (Client/Server computing) were big and PCs was taking its lunch away. Now we have the ipad (terminal device) in conjunction with cloud computing (main frame) take away the PC lunch. Unless your in one of those two camps or both the future success will not be very good.

Agreed! And many posters on these boards didn't see it either. I remember all the comments of how is it going to fit in between an iPhone and a laptop? Or it's just a larger iPhone without the phone capability...I've yet to see one mea culpa here! :)

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post #10 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed! And many posters on these boards didn't see it either. I remember all the comments of how is it going to fit in between an iPhone and a laptop? Or it's just a larger iPhone without the phone capability...I've yet to see one mea culpa here! 1smile.gif

I well remember these same attacks on the iPad. One rejoinder to these attacks was wonderful.

"So is a swimming pool just a big bathtub?"
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post #11 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed! And many posters on these boards didn't see it either. I remember all the comments of how is it going to fit in between an iPhone and a laptop? Or it's just a larger iPhone without the phone capability...I've yet to see one mea culpa here!

I've got one. I knew it was going to be huge (and that I'd buy one) but I couldn't see how it would fit into my life between an iPhone and 13" MBP user. Well, they finally added the features I thought were needed from the start and iCloud does a great job of syncing that I'm not likely to forego another 13" MBP (even it is Retina) to get an iMac.

I predict that within 2 years the iPad will a higher revenue and profit generator than the iPhone.

"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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post #12 of 39
9/4/12 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I well remember these same attacks on the iPad. One rejoinder to these attacks was wonderful.
"So is a swimming pool just a big bathtub?"

In all fairness, the ocean is just a giant toilet. :D

"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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"Blank! BLANK! You're not looking at the big picture!"

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post #13 of 39
9/4/12 at 7:19am
The iBooks Author will make it possible to have the mew textbooks that will completely overhaul the way kids are taught in schools.
That will make it so much interesting for any kids and of course change the way some teachers teach.
But for all that to happen, and to see the real explosion in education use, Apple will probably have to offer the new iPad Mini with a starting memory of at least 32 gigs to make room for the books needed. And keep the price at $300.
The Retina Display will not be necessary.
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post #14 of 39
9/4/12 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by juandl View Post

The iBooks Author will make it possible to have the mew textbooks that will completely overhaul the way kids are taught in schools.
That will make it so much interesting for any kids and of course change the way some teachers teach.
But for all that to happen, and to see the real explosion in education use, Apple will probably have to offer the new iPad Mini with a starting memory of at least 32 gigs to make room for the books needed. And keep the price at $300.
The Retina Display will not be necessary.

 

That's ridiculous.

The biggest advantage to having the retina display is for reading purposes.

I also think that 16GB is sufficient for the necessary books.

What kid could require more than 6 text books at a time?

Aren't they all under 2GB each?

You're cutting corners in the wrong places.

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post #15 of 39
9/4/12 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

One of the arguments in favour of an iPad Mini is that it's needed for the education market but the iPad 2 starting at $399 woukd appear to be serving that market well.
Children, from what I've observed, have no problem with the current iPad. It's claimed they do but that complaint isn't coming from them.
If price is the issue, keep the iPad 2 around for still another year and lower the price still further. It's a perfectly viable device in no need of a major upgrade as a budget option.

If the iPad 2 is successful in education at $399 because of the price, what makes you so certain that the iPad Min at $299 wouldn't be successful.

And the "just wait long enough and the iPad 2 will be cheap enough to put into cereal boxes" argument is just plain silly. Yes, the price of the iPad 2 will drop over time, but it becomes more obsolete over time. At any given point in time, a 7" iPad Mini will be less expensive than a 10" iPad with comparable technology. Or, if you want to set a price point, a 7" iPad Mini will be more technologically advanced than a 10" iPad at any given price point.

Simply waiting for the iPad 2's price to drop doesn't cut it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juandl View Post

The iBooks Author will make it possible to have the mew textbooks that will completely overhaul the way kids are taught in schools.
That will make it so much interesting for any kids and of course change the way some teachers teach.
But for all that to happen, and to see the real explosion in education use, Apple will probably have to offer the new iPad Mini with a starting memory of at least 32 gigs to make room for the books needed. And keep the price at $300.
The Retina Display will not be necessary.

Yes, the iPad has the potential to change education. In particular, it has the potential to eliminate the "let's use 30 year old science books because it's too expensive to replace them" problem. It also eliminates the "I can't do my homework because I left my books at school due to their weight" problem. But that change requires Education departments who are intelligent enough to figure out that the world is changing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Market data in the June quarter showed with certainty for the first time ever that Apple's iPad is replacing sales of traditional PCs to schools and students, according to one analysis.
Charlie Wolf with Needham & Company said in a note to investors on Tuesday that PC education shipments fell by 265,000 units, or 13.9 percent, from the June quarter a year ago. Apple, meanwhile, sold nearly a million iPads in the K-12 market in June, which he said is "definitive evidence" that the iPad has been "cannibalizing" PC sales in the U.S. education market.

Someone needs to look up the definitions for 'certainty' and 'definitive'. Unless they can prove that those schools would have bought more PCs if they hadn't bought iPads, it's not certain or definitive.

It's suggestive, but that's all.
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post #16 of 39
9/4/12 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yes, the iPad has the potential to change education. In particular, it has the potential to eliminate the "let's use 30 year old science books because it's too expensive to replace them" problem. It also eliminates the "I can't do my homework because I left my books at school due to their weight" problem. But that change requires Education departments who are intelligent enough to figure out that the world is changing.
 

 

It also lets the book publishers produce those ridiculous versions of classroom books that ignore science and history in favor of their requests and leave versions for other states that do not have those changes.  Currently texas is able to use their size to force changes to books and then, since it's os expensive to produce so many versions of teh same book, those versions get sold to lots of other states too.  If the books all go digital, you still have different eidting and people writing the copy that is used, but it is much less expensive than trying to produce 6 slight variations of the same book all in print.

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post #17 of 39
9/4/12 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I hope this dude knows what he's talking about and this really is happening.  After all the negative things I've heard about how useless iPads are for everything, I was beginning to wonder if it was actually going to replace low-end PCs.  I had recently heard a few back-to-school spots saying that Windows netbooks were gaining traction at the low-end for students not wanting to pay for even $399 tablets (iPad).

You heard wrong. Or maybe that's what you deperately wanted to hear anyway.
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post #18 of 39
9/4/12 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

It also lets the book publishers produce those ridiculous versions of classroom books that ignore science and history in favor of their requests and leave versions for other states that do not have those changes.  Currently texas is able to use their size to force changes to books and then, since it's os expensive to produce so many versions of teh same book, those versions get sold to lots of other states too.  If the books all go digital, you still have different eidting and people writing the copy that is used, but it is much less expensive than trying to produce 6 slight variations of the same book all in print.

True, although I'd much prefer for states to stop electing idiots to positions of responsibility and allowing their kids to be taught modern science.
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post #19 of 39
9/4/12 at 7:50am

Some "toy", isn't it?

 

All Jobs had to do was make a bigger iPod Touch, and he'd rule the world. 

 

Done. And it's so simple, like all genius.  

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post #20 of 39
9/4/12 at 8:03am

Anybody know of any independent reports on if iPads in school are helping improve grades or decrease school costs over time? I can't seem to find any good results while searching, I can only find a bazillion articles about how schools are buying up a ton of iPads (in the town next to us, each freshman is given an iPad that they will use for four years).

 

I think it's great that schools are using iPads, but I can't find any studies that say if they impact positively or negatively.
 

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post #21 of 39
9/4/12 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Sheez! What a horrible chart! Looks like an excel creation....ever heard of Pages?

Try this. 

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post #22 of 39
9/4/12 at 8:13am

or they waiting for Windows 8 - regardless, the untalented usually have no need for a computer, nice to be able to tell them apart from the rest of us by just looking around the room.

I can understand not everyone can afford a MAC - but at the minimum get an i3 cheap PC and challenge yourself to make something with your time. Whatever its problems, it has a full feature OS.

 

I always said that iOS was the dumbing down of Apple... now seems it is also the dumbing down of even Window users. 

 

But hey the iPAD is easy to use - just like HotDogs are easy to make.

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post #23 of 39
9/4/12 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Some "toy", isn't it?

All Jobs had to do was make a bigger iPod Touch, and he'd rule the world. 

Done. And it's so simple, like all genius.  


“When the Mac first came out, Newsweek asked me what I [thought] of it. I said: Well, it’s the first personal computer worth criticizing. So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world.

-- Alan Kay at 2007 iPhone introduction
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #24 of 39
9/4/12 at 8:24am
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post
If price is the issue, keep the iPad 2 around for still another year and lower the price still further. It's a perfectly viable device in no need of a major upgrade as a budget option.

 

And bingo was his name-o.


Originally Posted by juandl View Post
The Retina Display will not be necessary.

 

Except that's the opposite of what Apple wants to do, and there's no reason that the textbook crowd (I've explained this already) should have to make their books in TWO formats.


Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
If the iPad 2 is successful in education at $399 because of the price, what makes you so certain that the iPad Min at $299 wouldn't be successful.

 

Because the iPad 2 will be $299 in just a few months. Then the iPad 3 a year later. Then the iPad 4. Or schools can buy a more modern iPad if they choose for $399 or $499.


Originally Posted by agramonte View Post
I always said that iOS was the dumbing down of Apple...

 

And you were always wrong.


Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
“When the Mac first came out, Newsweek asked me what I [thought] of it. I said: Well, it’s the first personal computer worth criticizing. So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world.
-- Alan Kay at 2007 iPhone introduction
 

I love that quote so much. You can tell that the megalomaniac in Steve took it to heart. I don't understand why he'd ever be open to a smaller device, given it. 

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #25 of 39
9/4/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If the iPad 2 is successful in education at $399 because of the price, what makes you so certain that the iPad Min at $299 wouldn't be successful.
And the "just wait long enough and the iPad 2 will be cheap enough to put into cereal boxes" argument is just plain silly. Yes, the price of the iPad 2 will drop over time, but it becomes more obsolete over time. At any given point in time, a 7" iPad Mini will be less expensive than a 10" iPad with comparable technology. Or, if you want to set a price point, a 7" iPad Mini will be more technologically advanced than a 10" iPad at any given price point.
Simply waiting for the iPad 2's price to drop doesn't cut it.
Yes, the iPad has the potential to change education. In particular, it has the potential to eliminate the "let's use 30 year old science books because it's too expensive to replace them" problem. It also eliminates the "I can't do my homework because I left my books at school due to their weight" problem. But that change requires Education departments who are intelligent enough to figure out that the world is changing.
Someone needs to look up the definitions for 'certainty' and 'definitive'. Unless they can prove that those schools would have bought more PCs if they hadn't bought iPads, it's not certain or definitive.
It's suggestive, but that's all.

I can tell you with "definitive certainty" that given the current public school budgets, they are not buying both pc's and tablets.
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post #26 of 39
9/4/12 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

or they waiting for Windows 8 - regardless, the untalented usually have no need for a computer, nice to be able to tell them apart from the rest of us by just looking around the room.

I can understand not everyone can afford a MAC - but at the minimum get an i3 cheap PC and challenge yourself to make something with your time. Whatever its problems, it has a full feature OS.

 

I always said that iOS was the dumbing down of Apple... now seems it is also the dumbing down of even Window users. 

 

But hey the iPAD is easy to use - just like HotDogs are easy to make.

 

Yes, the iPad is easy to use, because you don't have to think about it.

 

Watch this amazing video:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50L44hEtVos

 

And pay particular attention to Alan Kay's comments at the end @8:11 in.  

 

As Alan says learning has to do with "focus" and "removing interference" -- that's exactly what iOS does... it gets out of the way and "removes distraction" so that the user can "focus" on the task at hand learning math, music, language...

 

If you are an instructor trying to teach, say, math or painting... or a student trying to learn those subjects -- why would you want to waste time on the distraction of a "computer" or a "full feature OS"?  Instead, you both focus on the task at hand.

 

Properly used, the iPad (and iOS) can be merely a user-friendly conduit to a more comprehensive application running on a personal computer or a server.

 

http://speirs.org

 

Fraser discusses teaching computer programming on the iPad and outsourcing all the non-iPad infrastructure from the classroom and even from the school, itself.

 

 

I suspect that, over time, many of these capabilities will migrate to the iPad device, itself... And those complex apps remaining on the server will evolve too -- to more-easily be exploited by a remote iPad and all that it offers.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 9/4/12 at 9:36am
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #27 of 39
9/4/12 at 9:46am

I can see it coming....

 

iPad mini this year

 

iPad maxi next year

 

7", 9", 11"

 

game, set, match

 

someone needs to start developing apps that correspond to the school curriculum, complete with an app that 'writes' on your iPad, what the teacher is writing on his special blackboard.

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post #28 of 39
9/4/12 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yes, the iPad is easy to use, because you don't have to think about it.

Watch this amazing video:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50L44hEtVos

And pay particular attention to Alan Kay's comments at the end @8:11 in.  

As Alan says learning has to do with "focus" and "removing interference" -- that's exactly what iOS does... it gets out of the way and "removes distraction" so that the user can "focus" on the task at hand learning math, music, language...

If you are an instructor trying to teach, say, math or painting... or a student trying to learn those subjects -- why would you want to waste time on the distraction of a "computer" or a "full feature OS"?  Instead, you both focus on the task at hand.

Properly used, the iPad (and iOS) can be merely a user-friendly conduit to a more comprehensive application running on a personal computer or a server.

http://speirs.org

Fraser discusses teaching computer programming on the iPad and outsourcing all the non-iPad infrastructure from the classroom and even from the school, itself.


I suspect that, over time, many of these capabilities will migrate to the iPad device, itself... And those complex apps remaining on the server will evolve too -- to more-easily be exploited by a remote iPad and all that it offers.

A very insightful and enjoyable post. Thank you.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #29 of 39
9/4/12 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If the iPad 2 is successful in education at $399 because of the price, what makes you so certain that the iPad Min at $299 wouldn't be successful.
And the "just wait long enough and the iPad 2 will be cheap enough to put into cereal boxes" argument is just plain silly. Yes, the price of the iPad 2 will drop over time, but it becomes more obsolete over time. At any given point in time, a 7" iPad Mini will be less expensive than a 10" iPad with comparable technology. Or, if you want to set a price point, a 7" iPad Mini will be more technologically advanced than a 10" iPad at any given price point.
Simply waiting for the iPad 2's price to drop doesn't cut it.
Yes, the iPad has the potential to change education. In particular, it has the potential to eliminate the "let's use 30 year old science books because it's too expensive to replace them" problem. It also eliminates the "I can't do my homework because I left my books at school due to their weight" problem. But that change requires Education departments who are intelligent enough to figure out that the world is changing.
Someone needs to look up the definitions for 'certainty' and 'definitive'. Unless they can prove that those schools would have bought more PCs if they hadn't bought iPads, it's not certain or definitive.
It's suggestive, but that's all.

Schools are limited by budget. Taking that into consideration it is remarkable just how quickly the iPad has been embraced in a scholastic setting. Even if Apple had priced its tablets even more aggressively, I doubt schools would have acquired them any quicker. After all, being a different approach, you would expect there to be some experimentation preceding a full-scale adoption of the technology.

Truth is, forcing childen to work with smaller screens would diminish the effectiveness of a tablet in a school setting. The answer isn't a smaller device better suited to commuters but to make the iPad more accessible in terms of price.

If there are commuters who want a smaller iPad, fine, but let's not pretend the Mini's reason for being would be to serve the needs of school-age children in a classroom setting.

Children don't want the iPad Mini. Haven't asked for it, don't need it. They think it's perfect just as it is already. It's their parents riding transit who wish there was an iPad Mini.
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post #30 of 39
9/4/12 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbox View Post

I can see it coming....

iPad mini this year

iPad maxi next year

7", 9", 11"

game, set, match

someone needs to start developing apps that correspond to the school curriculum, complete with an app that 'writes' on your iPad, what the teacher is writing on his special blackboard.

I seriously doubt the nomenclature but I have been saying since iPad launch I see a really big, really powerful 'iPad', intended for desk use coming one day. Specialist apps for music, design etc. could make such a beast the 'son of MacPro'. (used with it at 15° or there a-bouts, not upright like a monitor I should add)
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #31 of 39
9/4/12 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothgarr View Post

Anybody know of any independent reports on if iPads in school are helping improve grades or decrease school costs over time? I can't seem to find any good results while searching, I can only find a bazillion articles about how schools are buying up a ton of iPads (in the town next to us, each freshman is given an iPad that they will use for four years).

I think it's great that schools are using iPads, but I can't find any studies that say if they impact positively or negatively.

There have been several - and they were brought up in one of the recent iPad threads. I remember one in particular that showed significant gains in math performance, but there were others.

That's what search engines are for. For example:
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/09/18/ipad-enabled-students-get-performance-boost-says-acu-study/
http://www.eclassroomnews.com/2011/05/10/schools-see-rising-scores-with-ipads/
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/08/could-the-ipad-improve-math-scores-in-the-classroom/
http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/09/ipod-pilot-program-boosts-thir.html
There's lots more if you bother to look for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech360 View Post

I can tell you with "definitive certainty" that given the current public school budgets, they are not buying both pc's and tablets.

Some schools are. But even if you were correct, that doesn't mean that they would have bought PCs even if they hadn't bought tablets. They might have chosen to buy neither.

To show definitively that the iPad was scavenging PC sales, you'd have to show that someone would have bought PCs if they hadn't bought iPads. That hasn't been shown yet.
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post #32 of 39
9/4/12 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbox View Post

I can see it coming....

iPad mini this year

iPad maxi next year

7", 9", 11"

game, set, match

someone needs to start developing apps that correspond to the school curriculum, complete with an app that 'writes' on your iPad, what the teacher is writing on his special blackboard.

I seriously doubt the nomenclature but I have been saying since iPad launch I see a really big, really powerful 'iPad', intended for desk use coming one day. Specialist apps for music, design etc. could make such a beast the 'son of MacPro'. (used with it at 15° or there a-bouts, not upright like a monitor I should add)

 

As to the "special blackboard" used by the teacher... We have that already -- The teacher uses his iPad to "mirrored AirPlay" to the ATV HDTV.  And any student can present his silution or difficulties by "mirrored AirPlay" from his iPad.

 

As to the larger iPad display.  I agree... much larger than 11".   Something the size of a drafting table (slightly tilted) or flat for collaboration. Any of the apps involving sensory I/O would benefit from this... Apps like Composing or playing music, CAD, Painting, Drafting, 3D Modeling, Video Editing...

 

... or, maybe, the light table used to compare camera shots for the SI Swimsuit Edition...

 

 

Someone, on one of the forums i follow, said that he belived that Apple's Video Editing program, FCP X, was designed to be used with a touch interface.  On examination and reflection, i agree with this.

 

Here's an interesting observation by Michael Cioni, a pioneer in video editing.  He makes the point in the first 4:30 minutes -- but I bet you'll watch the whole thing:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0YNADg0Q4U

 

What Michael describes is the "fun" and "productivity" of getting your fingers dirty by interfacing a task through the iPad -- where nothing gets in between you and your stuff.

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #33 of 39
9/4/12 at 12:04pm

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 1/21/13 at 3:02pm
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #34 of 39
9/4/12 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

As a publicly funded school, maybe they're more interested in interoperability with all relevant platforms than being a showroom for just one.

The only problem with that argument is that Macs are more interoperable than any other platform.

You can run Windows and Windows apps on the Mac. You can read and write FAT32 disks natively. You can read NTFS disks natively.

Windows, OTOH is truly a 'showroom for just one' {platform} which you're complaining about.

So anyone truly interested in interoperability would be buying Macs.
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post #35 of 39
9/4/12 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

As a publicly funded school, maybe they're more interested in interoperability with all relevant platforms than being a showroom for just one.

The only problem with that argument is that Macs are more interoperable than any other platform.

You can run Windows and Windows apps on the Mac. You can read and write FAT32 disks natively. You can read NTFS disks natively.

Windows, OTOH is truly a 'showroom for just one' {platform} which you're complaining about.

So anyone truly interested in interoperability would be buying Macs.

 

Fraser Spiers pioneered use of iPads in the classroom.  His latest efforts are to teach subjects like programming on the iPad.  Traditionally these subjects required a classroom full of computers, and a backroom full of servers, HDDs... and all the IT level support requirements that goes with it.  And, he couldn't assign homework because the students didn't have the required infrastructure in their homes.  

 

Today, his backroom, is inexpensive virtual web servers on Amazon AWS, and his classroom is an iPad for each student that the  student takes home with him.  Homework is feasible because the students have the same access to the AWS servers from home as they do in the classroom.

 

It is better, more current, and costs a lot less in hardware, software and support.

 

http://speirs.org

 

Enter iPad

One of the astonishing results of our iPad 1:1 deployment has been the dramatic decline in the use of the Mac. Within less than two years, I am the only teacher still using the Mac on a regular basis. This was never part of the plan and I didn't expect that it would happen so soon. I thought it might happen eventually - perhaps in 3-4 years, certainly after one more refresh of our Mac setup.

 

Today, it quite seriously looks like we won't buy more than a handful of Macs again. We’re not cutting our teaching to fit what the iPad can do either - we have never done more with ICT, with better outcomes and deeper learning than we are doing now with iPads in everyone's hands.

AWS Basics

In case you're not all that familiar with virtualised cloud computing, here's a basic run-down.

Amazon EC2 allows you to spin up a virtual Linux or Windows sever running on Amazon's computing infrastructure. You can start and stop an instance as you need it, and you only pay for the time the instance is running. Instances can run in one of several geographic areas and prices vary slightly from region to region. For my deployment, I used the EU (Ireland) region because we are going to be working interactively and want the lowest latency possible.

The per-hour prices vary by the capability of the virtual machine but, for our purposes, we don't need massive power. The per-hour costs for the smaller instances are incredibly low. An on-demand "Micro" instance costs $0.02/hour. Two cents per hour. So you fire up one of these EC2 instances in August and shut it down the next June, you're going to pay about £80. If you only run it during the school day, it's about £20 per year.

Given that we're deploying iPad anyway for all the other parts of the school, you can see how provisioning a lab just for a programming class isn't an easy conversation to have. By my calculations, my subject now costs the school £10.80 per pupil per year to run. If I had to keep buying Macs just for Computing, the per-head cost would be over £160/year.

Benefits

I'm a huge fan of strategic outsourcing. We are rapidly moving towards a situation at Cedars where we will have essentially no infrastructure in the school except for WiFi (and possibly not even that). This is deliberate: I am the only technician, systems administrator and network manager in the school. I simply don't have time to deal with deploying and looking after servers on the premises. Neither do I want to. I would much rather spend my expensive and valuable time working on things educational rather than things technical.

In order to run my class with computing resources on-site, I would have to manage a suite of laptops or desktop computers, with some kind of file server and directory infrastructure. Alternatively, I can pay Amazon a penny an hour and I don't have to care about hardware at all.

The benefits go beyond the infrastructure and finance, though. It's never been possible for me to set actual programming homework before because few families have development tools installed on their home computers. Now, though, because I know the device that's gone home and I know that the server environment is available from anywhere, I can start to set programming exercises to do at home

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #36 of 39
9/6/12 at 9:56pm
As a current college student I would prefer my text books be in a more open format so I'm not locked into/forced to buy an iPad. For most of the stuff I do at school there's no way I could do it with an iPad. I won't want to have to buy and iPad just to read my text books.
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post #37 of 39
9/6/12 at 10:00pm
Most colleges still need to have all the IT infrastructure for research, etc. Often times it's the same equipment needed for the class rooms. As long as you have VPN software isn't not that hard to log in from home. Also there's no way I'm going to type out code a few thousand lines long on an iPad. Especially if there's not an equivalent to visual studio or eclipse.
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post #38 of 39
9/6/12 at 10:04pm
I think he meant more that text books shouldn't be in an Apple only format. They should be some sort of open format that every computer could use. Mac/iOs, Windows, and Linux.
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post #39 of 39
9/7/12 at 7:01am
Originally Posted by Sam Wagner View Post
I think he meant more that text books shouldn't be in an Apple only format. They should be some sort of open format that every computer could use. Mac/iOs, Windows, and Linux.


They are. It's on everyone else to support the new ePub format.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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