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Samsung plans to terminate LCD supply contract with Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Apple accounted for 10% of Samsung's total sales this year.  All that is going away   

10% of sales, but not 10% of profits. The bigger impact is if they had planned on increasing panel output and what that will do to the margins in that business.

Anybody know how LCD panels are made-- is a large slab cut down to small displays? How big is the slab...?

edit-- a little Google help:
Quote:
Manufacturing Process

The front glass plate and the rear glass plates are produced in different production lines. In most cases several (4-6) displays are produced on one glass plate. The rear glass plates is the substrate for the TFT production in case of active matrix LCDs. On top of the ITO layer, the transistors are created by a serious of PECVD and sputter steps. Then hard coat, polyimide and spacers are applied.

The front glass plate wears the colour filter layers, same as the rear glass plate ITO, hard coat and polyimide and the sealing.

In the assembly machine, the two glass plates are aligned, combined and fixed together, using UV hardened polymer spots. Then the raw panels are pressed together and heated in order to cure the seals and create a stable panel structure. Then the large panels are scribed and broken to the final display dimensions. The edges are ground. Now the singularised displays are filled with liquid crystal liquid and the opening in the seal is closed. The polarizers are applied to both sides. The display is ready. Following steps are mounting of electronic and packing.
source: http://www.crystec.com/crylcde.htm
post #42 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

I am absolutely stunned they would do this.  I mean, it's not as if Apple has done anything to them.  

 

Samsung is doomed.  LOL!!

post #43 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post


I've looked a lot into this issue.
However, aside from some initial roll outs, I haven't seen any issues with the LGs. Currently my MacBook is 2 months old and I test it about an hour at a time with NO IR.
additionally. I use my MacBook some 10 hours a day, often with problems displayed for long periods of time.
So maybe it was an issue at launch but none here.
I even tested a LG at bestbuy. Good to go

 

I received 3 replacement repair LG displays and 4 brand new out of the box rMBP that I demonstrated IR to the store manager AS SOON AS I OPENED THEM.

Then the manager started looking up the display manufacturers in his store system and managed to find me a Samsung with no IR. To this day, all the in-store rMBP (3 stores near me and all LG) still show horrific IR.

 

There is something wrong with LG panels but Apple isn't admitting to it.
 

post #44 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This sounds like sour grapes to me. By the description, Apple has already moved most of their business away from Samsung. Seems like Samsung is just slamming the door and yelling about it after the fact.

 

*sigh*  Is that why Apple is buying $12B worth of components from Samsung, from $7+B last year?   because Apple has already moved most of their business away from Samsung?

post #45 of 162
This article should be titled: "Samsung to ship less displays to Apple after they see orders from the iPhone maker drop every quarter of 2012"

Vuck Samsuck.
post #46 of 162
Sometimes I am worried!

Samsung makes this low class PR and finds people who seams to remember and believe this and they tell it around in a bar after 3 beer and other people start to believe it too!

Just heard it yesterday a complete mix up of turned around informations and blunt lies and everybody just took it as the truth! No chance to argument against it - No win possible!

Propaganda is important part of war! May be Apple has to better recognize this fact !
post #47 of 162
Originally Posted by bareimage View Post
Samsung has best display technology. This is really bad for Apple.

 

Mmm… I question both of these.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #48 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

 

snip... One thing I know is that Apple won't compete with Samsung on Washer/Dryer combos.

 

I suppose Samescum will put a positive "spin" on that  ;~)

post #49 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by haar View Post

good luck SAMSUNG, that might be the worst mistake you have made...

No, their worst mistake was blatantly ripping off the iPhone, which led Apple to start cutting ties and now they say they're stopping working with Apple as if they had any say or choice in the matter. There are some delusional idiots running Samsuck.
post #50 of 162
The fact is, Samsung's panels for smaller devices ranging up to the size of laptops are better than the competition. This is not good news.

Perhaps Apple can spend some of that huge cash pile on finally bringing up their percentage of R&D spending to industry-wide averages. Maybe that would help Sharp and LG provide quality components.
post #51 of 162
Amazon must realize they are taking a lot of risk by continuing to deal with these snakes. I would not be surprised if they are looking
for alternate suppliers for their screens as well.
post #52 of 162
Originally Posted by Fotoformat View Post
I suppose Samescum will put a positive "spin" on that  ;~)

 

Until someone else in that market draws attention to Samsung's copying of their designs.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #53 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I hope Apple takes a dump all over Samsung.  Apple practically jump-starts Samsung's mobile business and Apple gets back-stabbed for its pains.  I just hope that Apple is able to get the quality and production rates from other companies when it comes to displays.  I guess Samsung is very happy that its mobile business is doing so well and they don't need Apple's business anymore.

 

Samsung has been making mobile devices for at least a full decade longer than Apple and has sizable 3G/LTE patent pools. Samsung wasn't even a major player in the US smartphone market until last year - HTC was.

 

I'm not quite sure how Apple is going to work around this - there is really nobody out there big or reliable to enough to meet Apple's demand. 

post #54 of 162

'kaioslider' is correct.  Apple invested $100MM into Samsung to lead in the LCD space in 1999.  (Is that a picture of Steve Jobs happy with Samsung?  Those were the days - See here...)

 http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/newsView.do?news_id=364

 

Apple, Foxconn and others have been pouring Billions into Sharp (and others?) for the next generation of need in LCD and their bets are well placed.  Samsung can keep the flexible and LED market.

 

As for the "Firewall", yes 'Tulkas'; there never really was a "Firewall".  How could Apple trust that there was a "Firewall" when it is proven that Apple cannot trust Samsung as a whole.

 

What people/investors miss is the fact that the value of the commodity components (i.e. LCD, etc.) is not in the hardware specs but in the software, apps and media.  When Apple does go after the Chinese and 'last mile' markets with cheaper commodity hardware, the value and healthy margin will still be there.  Samsung will be there too with their cheaper hardware and BADA, not Android as Android is becoming too encumbered by litigation.  Still, it is easy to see in the culture of Samsung that they too will become a secondary player and not dominant like Sony was/is.

 

The Samsung announcement should have read, "Samsung will no longer be a supplier of any components to Apple by the end of 2014."  Flash has been pulled away, LCD is being phased out and SoC chip manufacturing will most likely end in 2014.

 

So it ends a 15 year relationship, 1999-2014.  It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom (Apple), it was the age of foolishness (Samsung).

post #55 of 162

So, who owns the IP to the Retina display?

Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #56 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

So much for the "firewall".

 

Well, Apple wasn't just going after Samsung Mobile..  It was going after Samsung Electronics, as a whole.. 

post #57 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

However the consumer won't, Sharp and LG have been riddled with quality issues. There still are issues with LG's Retina display for the macbook. Samsung's have none. Every launch they've been there to pick up the slack. I'm all for getting away but it will be very interesting to see launches go moving forward. 

I'm sure Sharp and LG will improve as they will be making more displays. I'm sure Liesung had to go through the quality process also. If they are smart, they will step up to the challange and prove what they can do. This could result in even more lost sales for Lacksung in the future when they take share away in other products too.
post #58 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary54 View Post

re: Retina display. There is nothing Apple can do to keep Samsung from cannibalizing technology they already have their hands on. They have a proven track record on that score. The only thing cutting ties with them will do is force them to reverse engineer on their own instead of handing it to them on a silver platter.

 

Apple should have cut them off long ago.


Why do you and others comment as if Tim Cook is an idiot? Recent events clearly show that Apple couldn't have cut them off if they wanted to. Other companies are either struggling to or finally getting up to the capability to produce what Apple needs. This is what Samsung is counting on - that other suppliers cannot fill their void. That risk clearly remains.

post #59 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

Samsung has been making mobile devices for at least a full decade longer than Apple and has sizable 3G/LTE patent pools. Samsung wasn't even a major player in the US smartphone market until last year - HTC was.

I'm not quite sure how Apple is going to work around this - there is really nobody out there big or reliable to enough to meet Apple's demand. 

So? Microsoft and IBM used to be giants too.
post #60 of 162
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post
This is what Samsung is counting on - that other suppliers cannot fill their void. That risk clearly remains.

 

That risk to them, you mean?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #61 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

So, who owns the IP to the Retina display?


Retina Display itself is not an invention per se. It's the manufacturing method. Apple and Samsung co-developed it, and the rights are owned by Apple. But there are alternatives methods of production as the IP pertains to specific steps rather than manufacturing high PPI LCDs in general.

post #62 of 162
An interesting aside, Panasonic recently announced they would no longer be making TVs but would instead be focusing their LCD factories to make panels for tablets, explicitly stating they would like to make the Apple's tablet screens. I'm personally not worried about the loss of Samsung's expertise.
Edited by All Day Breakfast - 10/22/12 at 9:03am
post #63 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

That risk to them, you mean?


To both sides ... It's not convincingly clear that other companies have the capacity right now to fill the void if Samsung no longer manufactures screens for them. It is also not clear that Samsung can replace the revenue by selling "internally".

post #64 of 162
Quote:

The fact is that Apple used superior Samsung displays years back for a goooood reason, so I question your questions.

And don't give me the "Apple designed it" crap. Because Samsung was the only company that could pull this off (al

 

Quote:
 

 

so - for a good price).
If that was not the case ask your self; why Apple didn't ditch Samsung before, like one year or two years ago?

 

 

I think you've got this backwards, its Apple that has been leaving Samsung, not the other way round. Quality may have been "the good" reason that Samsung was Apple's main supplier but I would have thought that scale and overall production capacity were the more likely reasons as long as certain quality targets were met.

post #65 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

 

Well, Apple wasn't just going after Samsung Mobile..  It was going after Samsung Electronics, as a whole.. 

yes it was but Samsung Eloctronics that was very clear that they were going to Firewall the lawsuits from their supply business. Guess they've changed their minds.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #66 of 162

Honestly this is not a bad thing for either company. Apple can go away fro msamung because of samsung supposedly stealing tech and samsung can get away from apple and open up their plants to other people. Samsung has other companies it can get business from. We have to see if apple can get the quality from multiple companies making their displays vs having just samsung.

 

I dont think this is *insert company here* is doomed for any of the companies.

post #67 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post


To both sides ... It's not convincingly clear that other companies have the capacity right now to fill the void if Samsung no longer manufactures screens for them. It is also not clear that Samsung can replace the revenue by selling "internally".

I think it is clear that capacity can be purchased and built. Perhaps not overnight and certainly it will cause a disruption for Apple, but how large that disruption will be and for how long is debatable. What isn't a question is that Apple can assist other vendors in increasing their capacity. Samsung's gamble on their internal puchasing needs being able to offset losing Apple is a much bigger gamble. You can guarantee that capacity will eventually be met, you cannot guarantee that demand will increase.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #68 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Funny how all these news stories position this as "Samsung dropping Apple".   When in reality Apple has brought LG, Sharp and Japan Display (consortium which includes Sony) online in volume over the last year.  With Panasonic waiting in the wings 

 

Apple accounted for 10% of Samsung's total sales this year.  All that is going away   

 

It's more like 4.6% last year.  Apple's component sales accounts for only $7B of Samsung Electronic's $150B revenue in 2011 - not a fatal hit, especially considering 40%-50% growth in Samsung mobile's revenue/profit.

post #69 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz View Post

As the biggest threat to Apple, who sells 100% of what they can manufacture, is not being able to manufacture in great numbers, I would say this is not only bad for Samsung.

What is Apple's and Samsung's contract? Can Samsung unilaterally breach the contract with Apple? Didn't Apple pour money into Samsung just so it could build Apple products? Depending on these answers, this action could the start of lawsuits of death between these companies.

post #70 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzN1337c0d3r View Post

Then the manager started looking up the display manufacturers in his store system and managed to find me a Samsung with no IR. 

There is no way to use the in-store system to find out which display is in each box. The manufacturing system, yes, the sales system, no.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #71 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

One thing I know is that Apple won't compete with Samsung on Washer/Dryer combos.

 

 

Oh I don't know...  I think Apple hung Samsung out to dry because their "relationship" is all washed up! 1biggrin.gif

 

(sorry just had to)

/

/

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post #72 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

Honestly this is not a bad thing for either company. Apple can go away fro msamung because of samsung supposedly stealing tech and samsung can get away from apple and open up their plants to other people. Samsung has other companies it can get business from. We have to see if apple can get the quality from multiple companies making their displays vs having just samsung.

I dont think this is *insert company here* is doomed for any of the companies.

Yes: all those companies who don't mind having their intellectual property stolen.
post #73 of 162

Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face!!

post #74 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc54 View Post

Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face!!

Is that even possible?

post #75 of 162
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post
Is that even possible?

 

Well, if Samsung can sell to itself and expect to make a profit, anything's possible.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #76 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

What is Apple's and Samsung's contract? Can Samsung unilaterally breach the contract with Apple? Didn't Apple pour money into Samsung just so it could build Apple products? Depending on these answers, this action could the start of lawsuits of death between these companies.

 

From what I understand Apple's investment in Samsung was pretty insignificant, $100M.   You have to remember that Samsung routinely spends billions to build / upgrade their manufacturing plants - or $41B in 2012 alone.

post #77 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

 

It's more like 4.6% last year.  Apple's component sales accounts for only $7B of Samsung Electronic's $150B revenue in 2011 - not a fatal hit, especially considering 40%-50% growth in Samsung mobile's revenue/profit.

learn to read an annual report, that total is for all businesses which includes cell phone and TV and appliances which is the largest portion of their business, Phone alone made up about 40% of the revenue. The portion that Apple is buying from is a smaller part of the total business, however they bring in some of the largest margin $ for Samsung. Actual Apple and Samsung are about the same size in revenue, but Apple brings home more $ to the bank, which means Apple has higher margins and to Samsung part more per part then the other competitors. WIthout Apple Samsung can not fill factories and the competitor who are all in the race to the bottom are not willing to pay the same price as Apple nor make the investment upfront like Apple has done.

 

So the lost of $7B in component and display business is going to be a big hit to Samsung bottom line. They are right now running around trying to convince other companies to do business with them. Grant Google is right there trying to fill the void Apple is leaving but Google is not a hardware company, so they want to give it away.

post #78 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

So, who owns the IP to the Retina display?

Apple owns specific patents relating to certain aspects of their displays, but you can't patent a display resolution or PPI number.  

 

As an aside, HTC is releasing a 5 inch 1080p display phone...  440 ppi...

post #79 of 162

Good! Apple don't need no stinkin' Samsung!

post #80 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

 

From what I understand Apple's investment in Samsung was pretty insignificant, $100M.   You have to remember that Samsung routinely spends billions to build / upgrade their manufacturing plants - or $41B in 2012 alone.

 

They just spent $3.6 bil to build a fab in Austin for A5 that now has to find another purpose.

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