Apple's next major market for iOS may be automotive - Page 2

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I grew up around the auto industry. My dad was in the business for over 40 years.

When a third-party gets his device written into the specs of a car, he not only sells original equipment but replacement equipment. So, if Chevy plans on selling 500 cars they might order 700 devices - with 200 as spare/replacement parts.

For the US military it's even better -- with up to a 4 to 1 ratio of replacement parts to original parts.

Dad's company made brakes that were used to steer tanks, among other things.

I had a '68 VW Squareback (international racing green with tan interior). Loved that car! The only problem, was that it was a little hard to handle in high winds. I eventually rolled it.

I had that same car, same color!, bought new in Germany in late '67. When it rained it got water on the floor in the back. Later I foumd that many Squarebacks had that problem, have yet to find out why. I put up with it because it's still the most practical car VW made in the air cooled era.

Once driving through your area I got behind a guy on the 101 in a light blue '68. He had made a sign out of little sticker-letters: "1968 VW SQUAREBACK FIRST CAR WITH ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION". He looked like an engineer, like he might have worked for HP. That was sometime in the late '90s. His car was in its 30s.

I now know that the Bosch control units, all discrete components, and the electric fuel pumps, last for 45 years.

 

Erm, hasn't Tesla Motors already done this with the 17-inch touchscreen in the Tesla Model S?

 

Yeah, running ANDROID. And they're the only company to do it. I don't see why everyone isn't moving to this.

The 17" is the console; the dash is also another display, but I don't know if it's customizable.

I work in automotive currently, specifically with embedded systems. For the trolls that means I'm involved with the design and testing of the hardware/software of all those computer modules in your car.

Although I think this is a good idea I think it will be difficult for Apple. People think the cronies at the TV networks are resistant to change - well, I also see that with automotive companies.

 

Ha!  Before Nov 1963 when I went to work for IBM {long hours - no personal time), I used to work on my own cars...  

 

Electronic Fuel Injection -- what nonsense is that?

 

A "real man's" car had carburetors... I can remember adjusting/balancing the dual carburetors on my '53 MG TD by sound... seriously, you would place a vacuum cleaner hose to your ear and move the other end between the two carburetors -- making adjustments until they sounded the same.

 

You usually did this after adjusting the valves...

 

Then to finish, you'd do a final tightening of each tappet...

 

Often, you would break one of the tappet bolts... then borrow a car, go down to the dealer for a new tappet -- and start the whole process over again...

 

If you started early enough on a Saturday, you could just make it to the dealer before they closed at 1:00 PM.

 

Ahh....  Today, I can't recognize anything I see under the hood of a car... sigh!

 

BTW, I never had the water leak problem.  Bought the car in Las Vegas in '68... Moved to Rural Chicagoland '68.  Drove to Pittsburgh - Boston and back via Upstate New York via Niagara Falls -- through really bad snow and sleet.  Rolled it in '71 driving through a heavily protected (tree-lined) road - then was flipped by a gust of wind at an opening in the trees.

 

BTW, I grew up my teen years in Pasadena, 1951-1959 and lived in the greater LA area until I moved to Las Vegas in 1963.  

 

I can remember when Hollywood was a nice place. 

 

I would think that a natural entry point for Apple would be to sell iPads in lieu of expensive built-in entertainment systems.   My 3 grandkids recently took a trip to Canada with their father.  Each kid has an iPad and were individually, able to watch movies, read and play games during the trip.  Then, take the iPads with them into the motel at night... and use WiFi to surf, text, FaceTime, etc.

 

From what I understand this is a lot more flexible, and a lot cheaper, than a built-in entertainment system.

... think I must have hit a nerve but let's just stick to a few facts on Mapping & Location technology here beyond the dumb and personal comments about me or LA.

Beyond the veneer of a map layer, there is a composite of many map data and visual layers and attributes in both 2D and 3D. In order for Apple to have "functional" navigational maps for the automotive segment, they are lacking lacking data big time here - they stitched it together from various sources like TomTom - they do not create not succesfully integrate the full stack - content, platform, apps. They are not capturing Lidar data, capturing street level, capturing road attributes, signposts, freeway height restrictions, parking etc like Google and Nokia/Navteq have been doing for years. Apple Maps are NOT automotive grade and they know that, too. It will take them a LONG time and it is hard Where is the multi-modal public transport and realtime timetables, building outlines, where are the indoor maps? Do they support fully offline mode? In vector versus tile formats. Is there Augmented Reality? What is Apple Global coverage beyond USA and EU and Australia and is there turn-by-turn in many areas? The quality, accuracy and coverage of Apple Maps is far inferior and they depend on TomTom which has OK data but not premium grade - Navteq and Google have that. What about the geocoded? is it accurate? 80% of all map and automotive map and location content comes from Navteq/Nokia (which powers Bing and Amazon) and Google and Nokia are in dozens of car manufacturers now. Getting entrenched for Apple into this space will take time if not years before you actually see it deployed in a car with two technologies still in very much beta - Siri and Maps. They can tap into using Bluetooth LE now with Siri but tethering with Maps - they are not there yet

I would encourage you to check out Google Maps again and Nokia Maps/Drive again on a mobile device and compare them with Apple Maps.

So, for all of you, taking some cheap pot shots at Apple Maps, relax and then challenge me on the above and then tell me Apple Maps are superior to either Nokia/Navteq and Google?

Not everything Apple does is superior so I encourage some to take the blinders off and challenge me on facts on Why Apple Maps are either better or automotive grade
Edited by eat@me - 11/10/12 at 11:40pm

I have been a Mac user since 1992, and I look at this forum almost daily. I find it informative, interesting and sometimes entertaining (especially when some of you start in on each other), but for the most part, I just don't have much to say.

 

BUT...the notion that Apple would get involved in (at least) car audio is probably what prompts me to look at this site more than any other topic. And today, I feel compelled to make my what, eighth post? (I don't even know where to look, but I feel someone will correct me if I'm off...)

 

"Hope springs eternal."

 

Whether they actually go for the factory install approach or not, with the release of the iPad Mini I think the accessory market needs to immediately come up with something on the order of a clip-mount that can be left in the car in which the Mini can be easliy snapped in and removed. Think along the lines of a removable faceplate. Since the Mini is nearly the size of a double-din (close enough for me), it would be much more serviceable as an automobile device than an iPhone ("here...plug your iPhone into this jack and then use it to do whatever...").

 

A Mini with 3G would be a bargain.

 

In 2005 I had a Pioneer AVIC-3 installed in my lowly Toyota Matrix for about a grand. It was awesome; it had GPS (DVD based), could connect to (and power) up to an iPhone 3GS, sounded great and it actually fit in the hole created by removing the factory 6-CD changer. The "touch screen" was a little clunky, but hey, it was "state of the art." 

 

Now however, the unit is essentially obsolete. It will connect to (but not power) an iPhone 4, the maps are out of date, the company that installed it is out of business, the Matrix has 103000 miles on it, is paid off, runs great, looks...like a 2005 Matrix...still sounds great, etc., but I'll be damned if I'm going to upgrade the stereo for another grand.  

 

When things settle down a bit (in terms of availability), I'll Velcro a Mini to the face of the AVIC-3, use the headphone jack and the 110 V outlet before I buy a new car stereo.

 

It would be cooler if I could just snap it in.

 

Back into my cave...

Utter drivel.

How are Apple going to make money in the TV market? By selling a TV. End of article.

 

Wish you could have from the start.

 

 

For the Kelsey Grammer in all of us.

 

Link

 

Why, when we have a better interface and better-looking maps straight from Apple, who won't steal our personal information? I'm sure Yahoo! said the same thing about their maps when Google's were released. "Check it out again," they'd say.

 

 

So you're telling yourself to relax? 

 

Seem to be making money just fine with an Apple TV, without all the useless overhead of a giant panel.

 

Yeah, I'm sure the Apple TV is about to eclipse the iPad business any day now. I wonder, what will you say when they bring out a TV. How will will you explain that one.

 

These are rhetorical questions, because I already know I won't care for your answers to them.

Edited by Ireland - 11/10/12 at 11:30am

 

Some, not all. Not the ones you really deem important in this regard.

 

 

A secret that is only known by the trolls, apparently. It's certainly not as, what do people want to say, "complete"? as Google Maps, but that's pretty obviously going to be the case for every brand new product.

 

See, you're making crap up. Zero facts about the matter. You don't actually know this, and so this is just a supposition.

 

Right. Of course. This also isn't a lie. 

 

Is this supposed to relate to something I said? Is a TV supposed to "eclipse" a computer? That's not the trend across the industry. 

 

 

"Apple has completely lost it, both innovatively and bowing to analyst—not even consumer—whining if they think this makes any sense financially or within the ecosystem. There is nothing that a TV can do that an Apple TV cannot, except be large, unwieldy, expensive, and less profitable."

 

Same thing I say now. 

 

 

Seems really stupid to ask questions and then ignore any answer.

 

It is hard to resist an answer like that. I'll give you that. It is interesting that you think an Apple Television (iTV) would be less profitable than an Apple TV (little black box). Interesting, to say the lease.

 

Enjoy your weekend.

 

Go straight by the numbers and it doesn't have to be. Whether people would pay those numbers (among other things) is a completely different story. 

 

The Apple TV can give a tidy 25% (or whatever it is, really) margin on the hardware and then sales of all the media purchased on it. At its price point, it's nearly a "stocking stuffer" or birthday gift, and it can be purchased and repurchased in a timeframe of just a few years with nearly no regard for it.

 

A TV's price point can't fulfill either of those.

I want full integration of an iPad right in the dash with Siri integrated into every aspect of the car.

Siri: You are getting low on fuel, there is a gas station just up ahead. You will need gas before arriving at your selected destination.

Siri: It is time to change your oil, do you want me to set up that appointment?

Siri: The left front tire is low on air, let's add some being we are stopped for gas.

With 4G so the wife can talk to her sister via FaceTime as we drive.

Apple can offer a TV, but I think the consumer would demand a longer maintenance cycle if it's main game is to be a smart TV. Otherwise, I just don't see I don't think anyone will be happy if support for the latest features ends at three years like a lot of internet enabled devices. TVs are often used for over a decade, and how owners upgrade their TV is by replacing the "smart" devices attached to them. I'm pretty sure I won't replace my TV because the iTunes won't connect with it.

But again, this is Apple. Maybe they have something.
Edited by JeffDM - 11/11/12 at 6:30am

At higher prices than the competition and offering very little to justify that difference.

And one can buy multiple Apple TVs for much less than a Apple branded television.

 

See, you're making crap up. Zero facts about the matter. You don't actually know this, and so this is just a supposition.

 

Much rather use Bing.

 

 

Which you know because… you don't actually know. There is zero proof of anything anywhere in that link or the ones branching off of it, even. We do not know, period, the reasons (because only a fool would think it was simply "over Maps") behind that.

Agreed but Maps and Siri were the last straws - there were many other issues for his outing.  Ive is taking over.

 

Regarding Bing, my understanding is that they migrating and that Nokia location platform is powering Bing Maps on mobile and soon on Web.

Edited by eat@me - 11/11/12 at 3:42pm

The point to me about Apple getting into HDTV is not about Apple making money in the short term per-set, it'a about Apple making money long term because of more people bought deeper into the greater ecosystem.

 

But what can be done there that can't with an Apple TV? It's the same thing. Apple doesn't make printers (anymore). Should they, to get people "deeper into the greater ecosystem"? 

 

If I remember right, there's no money in printers. It's all in the ink. They gouge people on ink to make up for the below rock bottom printer prices. Ink cartridges for some printers cost more than the printers themselves. It's cheaper to buy a new printer than an ink refill.

 

There's no money in TVs, either. There IS money in TV content, hence Apple TV; a high-margin, potential-for-high-volume-thanks-to-price device that serves you up that content.

Right, there really isn't money in TVs, TV makers have been hurting for some time. I think you have to have a niche model to get margin, and having niche, high quality model at a premium that didn't save Pioneer's Kuro line despite high ratings and an enthusiastic customer base.

Selling media isn't that lucrative, it pays for itself and a little bit more. The margins are not likely to be anywhere near Apple's typical hardware margins. I won't say never, but I don't yet see Apple's angle in that market that isn't already pretty well served by their $99 box.

But if anyone can fix the TV UI model, maybe Apple can, though I think they could learn some things from competing platforms. For example, the Netflix player on PS3 can automatically advance to the next episode in a TV series without any intervention, Apple TV's Netflix player needs five button presses to play the next episode.
Edited by JeffDM - 11/12/12 at 2:29pm

Buzz-off troll.  Downright lying about how "bad" Apple Maps is just shows that you have to make stuff up, including you owning a device with Apple maps with the hopes that someone will believe the trash coming out of your mouth.  Go away.

I'll gladly accept an iOS-powered automotive system and the polish that will go along with it, then they band-aid solution garbage that Android puts out.  With all the malware infestation plaguing Android, would not be a far stretch to have one's car veer off the road because you decided that downloading an app for "Asian Bikini Models Wallpaper" installed a malware payload.

How about a touchscreen, home button hd camera and microphone stero speakers be added to steering wheel/ these features would allow no keys needed(face recognition and touchscreen switch) FaceTime video calls(your screen off unless parked) great music, and any other feature can be controlled by your steering wheel running iOS, yet screens off unless calls or something to touch screen, yet a remote, GPS to your call while off. They can even add radio controls while off. With simpler parts to the passenger seat yet always on. This would make it only a single button for your whole car all on when stopped, not when moving. I can't believe nobody else has thought of this as a future car-also hold down home on steering wheel and Siri does it all.

Who makes the iPhone car mount in the BMW pic?

The article seems to imply it's part of the BMW system. It looks similar to a Griffin Road Trip, but I don't think it's that model.

 

The problem with a touchscreen is that you have to look at it (and therefore away from the road) to use it.  While I appreciate the flexibility you describe, I think it's better suited for the dashboard readouts or a HUD than the actual controls.  Give me a tactile knob or button over a touchscreen any day.

 

That said, there are things where a touchscreen is ideal.  A navigation system pretty much requires one, but make as much tactile as you can, and then leave only what you must in the touchscreen interface.

 

Otherwise, I'm right there with you.  The potential of iOS in a car is HUGE.  Car dashboard tech has been 5+ years behind for way too long.

 

Siri! I did say that, I think. Maybe it was somewhere else.

No fiddly controls cluttering up your steering wheel, no accidentally hitting them when you're turning or their protrusions being in the way in a crisis… just ask your car to do stuff for you.

Apple needs to go back to the basic....computers (especially mac pro)

It seems like some sort of Heads Up Display would be a far better solution.
Isn't thats what fighter pilots ended up being satisfied with?
Someone should make a leapfrog product.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/car-tech/top-5-huds-in-modern-cars-today-1092312

Lexus looks to have the best of the 5.

 

Nope.

To "eat@me 2012/11/08 06:28pm Automotive? That was a laugh -
Apple's non-functional Franken Maps will drive you into a tree or completely wrong direction."

I had heard there were samsung paid trolls out posting junk about Apple. I had not seen one until now. Since Apple maps only had a small number of pops in its original release and now its running pretty good. I use the directions all the time and it takes me point to point OK.

So shame on the samsung trolling for money. I guess its the asian way.

Just a thought.

 

Oh, heavens no. Companies anywhere, representing any race, have been guilty of doing this, and many in worse form than Samsung.