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Samsung nixes plans for Windows RT tablets in US, citing 'modest' demand - Page 3

post #81 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I just hope that Apple makes iOS more like OS X. It's nice seeing features move from iOS to OS X but when will we see more foundational practical features move from OS X to iOS?

 

What feature in particular do you want? It thought iOS was a pretty complete operating system.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #82 of 128
Aren't they running out of room at the Redmond city dump for all these MSFT failures yet?
post #83 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

With XP (and the NT it was based upon), they essentially started from scratch and built a new system from the ground up. It took longer than they probably expected for it to become mainstream, but when you look at its longevity, it was clearly one of their most successful products ever. Unfortunately, they didn't go far enough. XP isn't modular enough (too many things can affect other things) and as they've piled more crap on top of it, it has become less viable.

NT4 was the only version I could stand. It wasn't intrusive, and once configured correctly and leaving the OS alone it was pretty stable. Very stable, actually. Ok, no IR and other things, though there were 3rd party options available. Undocumented features like hitting F6 at the right moment during setup in order to install SCSI drivers was, well, all in the past now, but yes, they didn't go far enough.

With the added nonsense later versions gained the user only gained misery.
post #84 of 128
Originally Posted by Mark Dodel View Post
Aren't they running out of room at the Redmond city dump for all these MSFT failures yet?


Plenty of desert left. ET on Atari didn't take it all up.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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post #85 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Connell View Post



I both agree and disagree.  I don't think the traditional Windows UI necessarily dooms a tablet to failure, much to the contrary, I think if you're vastly exceeding the cost of a full-on notebook, the full capabilities of Windows (the full desktop and the ability to run all you're x86 applications) is very important.  I know iPads sell like hotcakes, but I, and a lot of others, simply aren't willing to spend upwards of $800 for a glorified smartphone.  Which is why, despite some of their decisions, I think Microsoft is on the right track with Windows 8 - provide a tablet friendly UI for basic and on-the-go tasks, and the full desktop for when you need to be productive with the "real" applications you need to use.  I know there's some overlap between "apps" and traditional "applications", but there's no denying that when real work needs to be done, there's no replacement for full desktop applications.

Clearly what's dooming Windows RT is that it's essentially nearly all the cost of a full Windows Pro system with none of the benefits - unlike iOS or Android tablets, the available app selection is extremely limited and limiting.  So you don't have access to your traditional applications, you don't have access to much in the way of apps, and the whole Metro UI is essentially barely out of beta status. 

On the other hand, give it a generation or two, and I think Windows RT will be gone and Windows Pro will make a very compelling OS for truly dual-purpose tablets - a touch friendly UI when it's used as a tablet, drop it into a dock and you have a full desktop OS for when you need those capabilities. 

 

I think you have it almost exactly backwards here.  

 

If you think an iOS tablet is a "glorified smartphone" then you aren't really in the market for a tablet at all.  You are the part of the market that doesn't actually see much value in the new mobile computing paradigm, and would really prefer a laptop, which is essentially what Microsoft Surface Pro is, a hybrid laptop.  

 

Neither Windows Surface RT, nor Windows Surface Pro, are really tablets at all, they are convertible/hybrid laptops.  In the case of RT however, it runs on a different processor, and while it *looks* like Windows, it doesn't actually run any Windows apps on it's Windows desktop.  What should have happened, is the Surface RT should have launched *without* the fake, confusing, copy of a Windows desktop in the background.  This would actually make it closer to being a true tablet.  If it also ran in portrait mode, it would actually *be* a tablet.  

 

This would have had poorer sales, but at least people wouldn't be confused, feel ripped off, and be taking them back to the store for a refund by the truckload.  It would also have made the Surface Pro look a lot better because the Surface Pro would actually be a great little laptop, but with the added benefit of having the tablet OS laying on top if you want to use that too.  

 

All Microsoft has done with Windows 8 is thoroughly confuse their entire market.  People (average people who buy Microsoft computers), don't even really understand what "Windows 8" is.  Is it the Metro deal?  Is it both together?  Is the underlying "regular" Windows, "Windows 8"?  Who knows?  And next year, when they start selling "Windows RT" tablets without the desktop mode, will that still be "Windows 8"?  If they change the name to something else for clarification, isn't that actually going to be more confusing?  

 

It's all a big pile of poo and there seems little that can be done to fix it.  It's likely that they even know this at MS headquarters and know how confusing Windows RT is, but they still did it anyway because the only alternative is having Windows RT "stand alone," and they probably know that it can't actually do that.  

 

Microsoft is absolutely f*cked.  In a few years they will be retreating into the business market and giving up on phones and tablets altogether, as they should be already.  

They got nothing.  They fired their best shot and it landed with a thud.  

 

What are they going to do, make a whole new third mobile OS and see if that flies?  And will they tie the Windows boat anchor to that effort as well?  

post #86 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

I am glad to go over appleinsider to read about samsung and microsoft... What is your point?

 

It's apparently about inflating Apple fan's egos. At their very core most Apple fans have grave fears about the future of the company. This may partly be because of the constant drumbeat of negative articles about Apple's ultimate failure being inevitable. We are bombarded by speculation about Apple without Jobs. "Steve would never have done this" laments are common even among the so-called faithful. There's a lot of hate out there for Apple simply because it has been so successful. So any story about possible failure on the part of a rival soothes the deep seated fears and reinforces the positive.

 

You can't go to any Apple centric site these days without articles about Samsung, Google, Microsoft potentially killing off Apple.

post #87 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

...

Jon was COO of MS from 1983-1990.. 7 years,,,,. The formative years where MS gained market domination.

Like Mike Markkula at Apple,, Jon Shirley brought the skill and perspective of a "businessman" to MS.

Gates was "wet behind the ears"... or "wet under the arms"... while Shirley brought legitimacy trust/respect and stability To MS.

The Shirley years were the apex... It has been downhill ever since.

Gates and Ballmer are posers.

 

I don't often agree with you but this is so true.  Thanks for the reminder.  

 

One of the enduring mysteries (to me) of the tech world, is why Bill Gates especially, gets so many kudos as some kind of visionary or great leader, or even as a good businessman.  The facts have always shouted the exact reverse of this.  His "predictions" of the future of tech have always been the worst in the industry.  I think only Eric Schmidt gets more future trends wrong than Gates.  Everything they have was copied or ripped off from someone else.  The man hasn't even coded since Basic.  Neither he nor Balmer have any "vision" or taste or understanding of what real consumers want at all.  What's more, every action they take and every statement they make shows that they don't even care.  

 

They just want to sell product.  Period.  

 

Gates is possibly the biggest poseur of the whole tech industry IMO, and you just know that when he kicks off there will be a big bronze statue of him somewhere and the kids of the future will be told (incorrectly) about what a tech giant he was.  

 

In reality, Bill Gates is just another shyster businessman who happened to operate in the field of technology, instead of oil, gas, or whatever.  Balmer is just a guy who was lucky enough to be friends with him at the time.  Neither of them are anything that any techie should admire or hold up as some kind of example.  They are both also horrible human beings besides (read up on Gates early family life sometime, quite the shocker).  

post #88 of 128

Why should Samsung bother when they can leave it a few months, some hacker will put Windows RT on a Galaxy Tab and Samsung can just copy that.

 

Steve Ballmer is good news for Apple. The guy is clown's shoes, makes bad decisions and is probably the number 1 reason why the PC market is going down as people are pushed over the silky smooth infrastructure of Apple.

post #89 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Windows users (and the tech elite) give Microsoft a lot of leeway when it comes to making mistakes. You know the saying, "it takes Microsoft three versions to get anything right?" or "they just rush a product out to market and iterate until they defeat the market leader"? Vista wasn't the end of Windows. The Office Ribbon wasn't the end of Microsoft Office. Users just swallow hard and ask "thank you, Microsoft, may have please have another?" And complicit tech elite sites don't even bother to put the suffix "-gate" at the end of a Microsoft failure, because it's expected. No, I predict that Windows will never die, so long as people are willing to put up with Microsoft's failures.

Tech elite....lol! Try MSFT sales rep.
post #90 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Connell View Post

I both agree and disagree.  I don't think the traditional Windows UI necessarily dooms a tablet to failure, much to the contrary, I think if you're vastly exceeding the cost of a full-on notebook, the full capabilities of Windows (the full desktop and the ability to run all you're x86 applications) is very important.  I know iPads sell like hotcakes, but I, and a lot of others, simply aren't willing to spend upwards of $800 for a glorified smartphone.  Which is why, despite some of their decisions, I think Microsoft is on the right track with Windows 8 - provide a tablet friendly UI for basic and on-the-go tasks, and the full desktop for when you need to be productive with the "real" applications you need to use.  I know there's some overlap between "apps" and traditional "applications", but there's no denying that when real work needs to be done, there's no replacement for full desktop applications.


Clearly what's dooming Windows RT is that it's essentially nearly all the cost of a full Windows Pro system with none of the benefits - unlike iOS or Android tablets, the available app selection is extremely limited and limiting.  So you don't have access to your traditional applications, you don't have access to much in the way of apps, and the whole Metro UI is essentially barely out of beta status. 


On the other hand, give it a generation or two, and I think Windows RT will be gone and Windows Pro will make a very compelling OS for truly dual-purpose tablets - a touch friendly UI when it's used as a tablet, drop it into a dock and you have a full desktop OS for when you need those capabilities. 

I think you have it almost exactly backwards here.  

If you think an iOS tablet is a "glorified smartphone" then you aren't really in the market for a tablet at all.  You are the part of the market that doesn't actually see much value in the new mobile computing paradigm, and would really prefer a laptop, which is essentially what Microsoft Surface Pro is, a hybrid laptop.  

Neither Windows Surface RT, nor Windows Surface Pro, are really tablets at all, they are convertible/hybrid laptops.  In the case of RT however, it runs on a different processor, and while it *looks* like Windows, it doesn't actually run any Windows apps on it's Windows desktop.  What should have happened, is the Surface RT should have launched *without* the fake, confusing, copy of a Windows desktop in the background.  This would actually make it closer to being a true tablet.  If it also ran in portrait mode, it would actually *be* a tablet.  

This would have had poorer sales, but at least people wouldn't be confused, feel ripped off, and be taking them back to the store for a refund by the truckload.  It would also have made the Surface Pro look a lot better because the Surface Pro would actually be a great little laptop, but with the added benefit of having the tablet OS laying on top if you want to use that too.  

All Microsoft has done with Windows 8 is thoroughly confuse their entire market.  People (average people who buy Microsoft computers), don't even really understand what "Windows 8" is.  Is it the Metro deal?  Is it both together?  Is the underlying "regular" Windows, "Windows 8"?  Who knows?  And next year, when they start selling "Windows RT" tablets without the desktop mode, will that still be "Windows 8"?  If they change the name to something else for clarification, isn't that actually going to be more confusing?  

It's all a big pile of poo and there seems little that can be done to fix it.  It's likely that they even know this at MS headquarters and know how confusing Windows RT is, but they still did it anyway because the only alternative is having Windows RT "stand alone," and they probably know that it can't actually do that.  

Microsoft is absolutely f*cked.  In a few years they will be retreating into the business market and giving up on phones and tablets altogether, as they should be already.  
They got nothing.  They fired their best shot and it landed with a thud.  

What are they going to do, make a whole new third mobile OS and see if that flies?  And will they tie the Windows boat anchor to that effort as well?  

Nailed it!
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post #91 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

What feature in particular do you want? It thought iOS was a pretty complete operating system.

As I said in another thread accessing settings is a pain in the arse in iOS even though its very intuitive in OS X. And mission control is a much better multitasking manager than the app tray. The app tray is sufficient for the iPhone but the iPad could use a bit more.

At times when I'm on an iPad I want to view 2 apps at once (safari and pages) but of course I can't currently. More file export options and more options for opening files or photos. A lot of formats especially professional ones aren't recognized by the iPad or iPhone.
post #92 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

As I said in another thread accessing settings is a pain in the arse in iOS even though its very intuitive in OS X. And mission control is a much better multitasking manager than the app tray. The app tray is sufficient for the iPhone but the iPad could use a bit more.

At times when I'm on an iPad I want to view 2 apps at once (safari and pages) but of course I can't currently. More file export options and more options for opening files or photos. A lot of formats especially professional ones aren't recognized by the iPad or iPhone.

How to propose culd be changed in iOS? I think it's easy to access as you can type System Preferences in Spotlight in Mac OS or Settings in Search on iOS to bring it up. The only real difference is that System Preferences is always the 4th item under the  logo in the upper-lefthand corner but I wouldn't want the Settings app to be permanently placed on any home screen.

One thing I dislike is that when you swipe right to get to search that page is empty. I'd like buttons there for many quick access functions. The search area still up top and the buttons instantly vanish when you start to type.

I think multiple pages might be something that will come to the iPad in some form but I think this is a very tough puzzle to work out properly. Apple could make APIs so that developers can have their apps auto adjust to set changes in the width but is that practical?

One thing I use a lot is the five-finger pinch to get back to the desktop but I wonder if it would be better to have, from an app, the five-finger pinch show the same Show All Tabs layout that Safari 6 on Mac OS. This would be more inline with WebOS's Cards and big enough that the detail could be useful as well fast. In that view a 2nd five-finger pinch would then get you to the home screen.
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/13/13 at 1:02pm

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post #93 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) How to propose culd be changed in iOS? I think it's easy to access as you can type System Preferences in Spotlight in Mac OS or Settings in Search on iOS to bring it up. The only real difference is that System Preferences is always the 4th item under the  logo in the upper-lefthand corner but I wouldn't want the Settings app to be permanently placed on any home screen.

One thing I dislike is that when you swipe right to get to search that page is empty. I'd like buttons there for many quick access functions. The search area still up top and the buttons instantly vanish when you start to type.

I think multiple pages might be something that will come to the iPad in some form but I think this is a very tough puzzle to work out properly. Apple could make APIs so that developers can have their apps auto adjust to set changes in the width but is that practical?

One thing I use a lot is the five-finger pinch to get back to the desktop but I wonder if it would be better to have, from an app, the five-finger pinch show the same Show All Tabs layout that Safari 6 on Mac OS. This would be more inline with WebOS's Cards and big enough that the detail could be useful as well fast. In that view a 2nd five-finger pinch would then get you to the home screen.

Apple should hire you haha.

But I'm not talking about system settings but app settings which are easy to access in OS X because its always under the same tab no matter what app you're in, even 3rd party apps. In iOS app settings are hidden in the settings app which you have to first switch to, leaving the app you were in, in order to get to anything.
post #94 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Apple should hire you haha.

But I'm not talking about system settings but app settings which are easy to access in OS X because its always under the same tab no matter what app you're in, even 3rd party apps. In iOS app settings are hidden in the settings app which you have to first switch to, leaving the app you were in, in order to get to anything.

I see, and I agree that it can be a pain as there are in-app settings with no standardization and app settings in Settings that seem to be used less and less. It's certainly not intuitive but that could be even tougher to tackle because we have no Menu Bar in which to put an item called Preferences under the app name.

Any idea how to make a windowless OS have a universal, finger-sized button for whatever app you're in that has more pros than cons? I'm drawing a blank.

Personally, I hope more of the efficiency of iOS filters back into Mac OS X to help buoy their desktop operating system and Mac sales... so maybe you don't want me working for Apple after all. 1biggrin.gif

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post #95 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I see, and I agree that it can be a pain as there are in-app settings with no standardization and app settings in Settings that seem to be used less and less. It's certainly not intuitive but that could be even tougher to tackle because we have no Menu Bar in which to put an item called Preferences under the app name.

Any idea how to make a windowless OS have a universal, finger-sized button for whatever app you're in that has more pros than cons? I'm drawing a blank.

Personally, I hope more of the efficiency of iOS filters back into Mac OS X to help buoy their desktop operating system and Mac sales... so maybe you don't want me working for Apple after all. 1biggrin.gif

I like that they have put some of iOS's simplicity back in to OS X so that wouldn't be so bad 1biggrin.gif

I imagine if they add a quick access settings widget to the notification center they could allow the system to adjust the settings widget to add safari settings if you're currently using safari, Facebook settings of you're currently using Facebook, etc. So essentially a settings widget in the notifications center could take the place of the same actions that would be in a menu bar.

Another option would be to utilize the multitasking tray for some quick access settings or app settings. Instead of always having the iPod controls and the orientation lock there, they could put relevant settings to the app you're currently using or even make that part of the multitasking tray customizable instead of it always being useless iPod controls.
post #96 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


This did this once - with Windows XP (I don't count Windows 95 because too much of it was simply built on top of earlier versions). With XP (and the NT it was based upon), they essentially started from scratch and built a new system from the ground up.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure [Microsoft has] the time to do that again, at least as far as RT is concerned. Throwing out the whole mess and starting with a clean sheet of paper as Apple did with OS X would take years (just as it took Apple years to get to the point where the platform was stable and efficient enough to spin off iOS).

 

Actually, Windows NT started life as "Portable OS/2". OS/2, the operating system that IBM and Microsoft worked on together was also the source of their falling out. IBM wanted it to be married closely to their hardware architecture (e.g. 386, PS/2), while Microsoft wanted it to be portable across many hardware platforms. When they split up on this, each took their code base and went with it in their own direction. Microsoft never succeeded in making it truly portable, because they wanted to remain backward compatible with their older Windows code base. Technically, Windows NT was portable (it ran on Alpha for instance), but other than NeXT, they were never for instance able to make it portable acrosss big-endian versus little-endian CPU architectures. That tells you there was a lot of non-portable bit-wise mucking going on inside (and maybe still is on the Windows API side). It even led to a little status bit on the HPPA CPU architecture that enabled it to switch form its native big-endian to NT's required little-endian architecture. ARM is bi-endian, so they won't run in to trouble there. Maybe the classic old Windows stuff is just too terrible to contemplate porting and testing.

 

When Apple bought NeXT, they not only got all the goodies like the object oriented frameworks etc. But these frameworks and the underlying Mach kernel were also already fully portable. NeXTSTEP ran on x86, m68k, hppa and SPARC (and in the lab on m88k and ppc according to rumors). This enabled for instance the relatively fast port to PPC and later the relatively easy switch from PPC to x86 and also running it (as iOS) on ARM.

 

I expect that Apple has OS X running on more than just x86 platforms in the lab and that they keep it up to date on those platforms. Not just to be able to move, but it is a very effective practice to help make sure your programmers don't create nonportable hacks.

post #97 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post

When Apple bought NeXT...

I prefer to think of it as Apple paid NeXT to take over and change their name to Apple. 1biggrin.gif
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/13/13 at 2:11pm

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post #98 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post

Actually, Windows NT started life as "Portable OS/2". OS/2, the operating system that IBM and Microsoft worked on together was also the source of their falling out. IBM wanted it to be married closely to their hardware architecture (e.g. 386, PS/2), while Microsoft wanted it to be portable across many hardware platforms. When they split up on this, each took their code base and went with it in their own direction. Microsoft never succeeded in making it truly portable, because they wanted to remain backward compatible with their older Windows code base. Technically, Windows NT was portable (it ran on Alpha for instance), but other than NeXT, they were never for instance able to make it portable acrosss big-endian versus little-endian CPU architectures.

There were versions of NT for Alpha, Sun, x86 (both 32 and 64 bit, I believe), and PPC. Not all of them made it to market, but the reports at the time indicated that they were ready to go. How much more portable do you want?
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post #99 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

There were versions of NT for Alpha, Sun, x86 (both 32 and 64 bit, I believe), and PPC. Not all of them made it to market, but the reports at the time indicated that they were ready to go. How much more portable do you want?

When I think of portable I think of ARM. Only now at the end of 2012 has MS been able to make NT efficient enough to be viable for truly portable devices.

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post #100 of 128

Samsung nixes plans for Windows RT tablets in US, citing 'modest' demand

 

Wow!  Really?  I'm...I'm shocked.  Shocked I tell you.  I thought consumers would go wild for a Windows device that can't run Windows software.

 

Who could have possibly seen this coming?

 

1rolleyes.gif

post #101 of 128

Running a dual boot mode would have been even more confusing if that's possible.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

The only hope this tablet had to succeed is if it could run in dual boot mode to allow a real Windows experience and not a crippled one. That might at least offer some benefit to former netbook customers looking for the portability of a tablet but also needing to use it just like a laptop as well. The 2.0 version will probably address this shortcoming and could fill a niche.

The iPad is a far superior option on many levels and so are pretty much all the android tablets as well. This device will fly first class on a one way trip to the island of misfit toys.
 
post #102 of 128

Does it matter? No one wanted to pay a license for it because they would be competing directly with Microsoft which owned the technology in the first place.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


There were versions of NT for Alpha, Sun, x86 (both 32 and 64 bit, I believe), and PPC. Not all of them made it to market, but the reports at the time indicated that they were ready to go. How much more portable do you want?
post #103 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

cant blame samesung on this one.  Windows RT is a complete abomination. Only an idiot would buy something that bad.

 

 

I hear every Microsoft employee is getting an RT tablet.

 

A Microsoft store was robbed and the thief stole iPads that were there but not a single RT tablet.  LOL

post #104 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


Apple should hire you haha.

But I'm not talking about system settings but app settings which are easy to access in OS X because its always under the same tab no matter what app you're in, even 3rd party apps. In iOS app settings are hidden in the settings app which you have to first switch to, leaving the app you were in, in order to get to anything.

Check in the app for a "gearwheel" icon, which has been the iOS symbol for 'Settings' in an app. Usually, if not a gear, there is another icons in the upper bar which offers access to settings. Unfortunately, too many apps use the the "Settings" app as well.

 

Cheers

post #105 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Does it matter? No one wanted to pay a license for it because they would be competing directly with Microsoft which owned the technology in the first place.

I don't think that is known.

All we know is that NT was never available for those other platforms. It could have been:
1. It was never ready in spite of the rumors.
2. MS chose not to offer it for sale.
3. Potential OEMs refused to license it.

No one outside of Microsoft knows what really happened.
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post #106 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


There were versions of NT for Alpha, Sun, x86 (both 32 and 64 bit, I believe), and PPC. Not all of them made it to market, but the reports at the time indicated that they were ready to go. How much more portable do you want?

NT for Alpha was a possibility, because the NT programming team had begun as the Alpha team at DEC. MS sold the "NT on Alpha" idea to DEC, which terminated their OS efforts for Alpha, and the team moved directly to MS and began NT for x86. In turn, MS announced versions of NT for the other major CPU designs, but none ever emerged from the lab. For the most part, it's just people remembering the MS announcement and overlooking the vapourware indicators.

 

On the other hand, rumours of x86 versions of Mac OS were circulating after the arrival of System 8. During the days of Apple's Slough of Despair, many 'analysts' were quite sure that Mac on the x86 was imminent, or that Apple was about to license NT for PPC, which did not exist outside a press release.

 

Cheers

post #107 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

I hear every Microsoft employee is getting an RT tablet.

 

And this will be the mandatory image on the login screen:

 

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post #108 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

The only hope this tablet had to succeed is if it could run in dual boot mode to allow a real Windows experience and not a crippled one. That might at least offer some benefit to former netbook customers looking for the portability of a tablet but also needing to use it just like a laptop as well. The 2.0 version will probably address this shortcoming and could fill a niche.

Hate to tell you this, but if it had a ghost of a chance of running a "real" Windows experience, it would have been released that way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

cant blame samesung on this one.  Windows RT is a complete abomination. Only an idiot would buy something that bad.

Don't underestimate the number of idiots in this country. RT is secret code for Republican Teabaggers...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #109 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I prefer to think of it as Apple paid NeXT to take over and change their name to Apple. 1biggrin.gif

I remember the transaction being referred to it as "NeXT bought Apple for a negative $400M"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post

NeXTSTEP ran on x86, m68k, hppa and SPARC (and in the lab on m88k and ppc according to rumors).

I never bought that PPC rumor...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

I hear every Microsoft employee is getting an RT tablet.

And this will be the mandatory image on the login screen:

(^ Developers, developers, developers image)

Mandatory; good one! How about this?

post #110 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This is the beginning of the end for Microsoft.

I am going to go out on a limb and predict that the stock will enter a death spiral in 2013, with cash flows from Office being the floor for the company's value.

While I did give you a "thumbs up" I do think their stock will drop and Microsoft will be around for a long time albeit no longer as powerful as before. 

 

Enterprise and government will probably upgrade to Win 7 and sit there. Other competitors are already decimating Microsoft's server business wile Apple has done a great job of filling the hole left by Microsoft's absence in the phone and tablet business. Microsoft has shown that they cannot be relied on to be there with product for enterprise and government. Six years MIA in the phone business and not even yet to market with the "real" Windows tablet, while Apple is on version 6 of a unified phone and tablet OS, and on version 4 of tablet hardware. 

 

The people in the "C" suites have demanded that IT figure out a way to incorporate MBAs into the company networks along with the iPad and iPhone. It's now a done deal. Once the pooch is screwed there's no reason to go back. Plus, the MS tax is higher than the alternative. 

 

Finally, iWorks has proven to be "good enough" to bulk of the enterprise and government workers. MS Office still has a place, but it is no longer a "given" like it had been. Enterprise and government have seen that they can operate successfully on less demanding hardware and less costly general office software. The curtain has been pulled aside and the myth has been exposed.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #111 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

The only hope this tablet had to succeed is if it could run in dual boot mode to allow a real Windows experience and not a crippled one. That might at least offer some benefit to former netbook customers looking for the portability of a tablet but also needing to use it just like a laptop as well. The 2.0 version will probably address this shortcoming and could fill a niche.
Hate to tell you this, but if it had a ghost of a chance of running a "real" Windows experience, it would have been released that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

cant blame samesung on this one.  Windows RT is a complete abomination. Only an idiot would buy something that bad.
Don't underestimate the number of idiots in this country. RT is secret code for Republican Teabaggers...

Resurgent Transvestites...
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #112 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

And this will be the mandatory image on the login screen:

 

 

How about this one: "Who Knows what evil lurks in the hears of men? The Shadow knows!!"

 

 

700

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #113 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

How about this one: "Who Knows what evil lurks in the hears of men? The Shadow knows!!"

'Microsoft. To boldly fail where no one has taken failure before.'
post #114 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

One thing I dislike is that when you swipe right to get to search that page is empty. I'd like buttons there for many quick access functions. The search area still up top and the buttons instantly vanish when you start to type.

But if a search query has results those remain visible after returning to the search page. Though they could change the Apps in the Dock with predefined, customizable Settings, like Brightness, Airplane Mode, WiFi & Bluetooth. Like so:



Yeah yeah, shyte mockup, but you get the picture.

Maybe a better solution to quickly access Settings is a Swipe-Up, just like the NC Swipe-Down. But I presume Android has this and would therefore be prior art ¡
post #115 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


That's pretty much true.

I just hope that Apple makes iOS more like OS X. It's nice seeing features move from iOS to OS X but when will we see more foundational practical features move from OS X to iOS?

 

The facts tell that's not the case:

 

a) Apart from the initial kernel, has any OSX concept or functionality been added to iOS after the first iOS release? Nope.

 

b) Has any iOS concept or functionality been added to OSX in a way that OSX needs to be used like if it was iOS? Plenty: Launchpad, autosave+versions (which effectively changes the file paradigm and needs re-learning, because now every file is always open and it's not possible to close files), nonsense Calendar textures, inverted scrolling by default (which is very comfortable for touch interfaces, but completely absurd and nonintuitive for mouse/trackpad interfaces), hidden scrollbars by default, and I guess I'm forgetting something but I don't remember now.

 

Funnily, I never used any of such "imported from iOS" concepts, because I don't want to use my computer like if it was a phone. I want to use it like it is: a Mac.

 

So, from all these facts, we can reasonably guess that it's likely to expect to see more iOS concepts introduced into OSX in the future, but it is unlikely that we'll see the power and flexibility of OSX brought into iOS.

 

I believe we'll closer to see a fully sandboxed OSX (without direct access to the filesystem), than an hypothetical "Files app" for iOS.

 

People arguing OSX is greater when it becomes more and more like iOS, please... can you enlighten me how are you supposed to use iOS for efficiently design iOS apps, write their code, debug it, and compile it?

 

Or maybe Apple users aren't expected to write Objective C?

post #116 of 128
Crazy to think that Apple is actually looking better positioned than Microsoft in the computer world...
post #117 of 128
I've used a Surface for a day or two and while the hardware is beautifully designed, overall it's a big fail on many, many counts. Had Microsoft avoided the idea of including RT and just gone with the Metro part on a tablet without all of the extra laptop-like baggage, they might have had something people are interested in. As it stands, the Surface is basically a stunted laptop (or a beefed-up netbook) selling at a premium price. While I was testing out the Surface, I ended up ditching the keyboard and using the Metro interface exclusively as Windows RT turned out to be an overly complicated legacy-style OS which doesn't even give you the benefit of running Windows apps. So why include it? I think Microsoft was worried about selling a "Windows" laptop/netbook/tablet that didn't actually have any windows. I suppose they could rename their new OS "Microsoft Tiles" and be done with it, but it's a good thing that when they entered into the GUI business back in the 1980s they didn't opt to call their OS "Microsoft Mouse" or "Microsoft Menus," that might have caused even more problems for Metro/RT, naming-wise.
post #118 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm a huge fan of Linnaeus's efforts in designing a modern method to cataloging every living thing on earth in a standard way and yet that jerk Melvil Dewey** is a known name and Linnaeus's isn't.

* Linguistics is a branch of anthropology.
** I have nothing against Dewey or his decimal system. Just being flippant for the sake of it.

Not sure who Dewey is, but I know Linnaeus...

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #119 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

Check in the app for a "gearwheel" icon, which has been the iOS symbol for 'Settings' in an app. Usually, if not a gear, there is another icons in the upper bar which offers access to settings. Unfortunately, too many apps use the the "Settings" app as well.

 

Cheers

As Apple guidelines invite developers to...

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #120 of 128
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
But if a search query has results those remain visible after returning to the search page. Though they could change the Apps in the Dock with predefined, customizable Settings, like Brightness, Airplane Mode, WiFi & Bluetooth. Like so:

 

I was going to say the exact same thing earlier, but that's a "swipe-tap" away (to clear the keyboard), and people would whine about that.

 

So put the switches in the open space between the keyboard and the search field, disappearing when you start to search. It's ugly, it's the wrong way to do it, but they won't whine about it.

 

Well, they will. Some would still want it on the Springboard proper. They'd want them to be locked onto the first Home Screen, unmovable.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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  • Samsung nixes plans for Windows RT tablets in US, citing 'modest' demand
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