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Adobe goes subscription-only, rebrands Creative Suite as Creative Cloud - Page 4

post #121 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

The initial license would have cost much more unless you went the student route. 

 

Not at all.  I originally bought Photoshop.  Before CS3, Adobe would let you upgrade to the Cs suite from any version of software you had.  So Photoshop 5 which I paid about $500 for, I upgraded to CS2 for about $700. 

 

When Adobe realized no one was upgrading fast enough, they limited how old your version could be before upgrading - I think it's up to 3 versions old.  (with a tiered pricing structure - the older your copy was the more you payed)

 

Well, it looks like that isn't enough either - the PrePress industry is on life support, Flash can't be pulling in what it used to,  iPhoto, and a plethora of iOS apps are now good enough for most users who are now just editing photos right on their phone.  This is an act of desperation on Adobe's part.  Nothing more, nothing less.

post #122 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Enjoy your lies.

 

Unfortunately, as FCP7 becomes long in the tooth, many post houses are moving away from FCP because of FCPX. Whether that makes FCPX a crap product or Premiere better, that's arguable, as Premiere has it's own shortcomings. We're transitioning towards Avid.

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post #123 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Oh, right. Still works, however.

 

And… it does both. Even HD DVD.

 

...

 

I wouldn't see why not. What, really, could be supported on Adobe's software that isn't in Apple's?

 

No, DVDSP doesn't work for B-R, and HD DVD is long dead and buried. Even though it was the better platform, in my opinion.

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post #124 of 180
Originally Posted by sennen View Post
…many post houses are moving away from FCP because of FCPX.

 

If they're too lazy or stupid to do the research about the product, that's their problem.


Originally Posted by sennen View Post
No, DVDSP doesn't work for B-R…

 

Why do I see "to Blu-ray" conversions all through FCS 2, then?

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #125 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Wouldn't you also lose the ability to eat, pay your rent, pay for internet etc? I don't see how knowing you will pay $50/month is worse than coming across a situation where Adobe issues an update and you require the update and unexpectedly have a $600 or higher expense in one month. Would it really be that difficult to keep aside $200 to cover you for 4 months?

Also:

"Users will be expected to connect to the web every 30 days to validate their software licenses, but Adobe says products will work offline for 180 days."

http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/05/adobe-doubles-down-on-creative-cloud-adopts-subscription-only-software-model/
Those projections likely weren't but the following are:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2013/05/06/adobe-systems-to-break-out-box-by-focusing-on-web-software/
 

I figured it would include some offline options. Thank you for finding that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

 

Not at all.  I originally bought Photoshop.  Before CS3, Adobe would let you upgrade to the Cs suite from any version of software you had.  So Photoshop 5 which I paid about $500 for, I upgraded to CS2 for about $700. 

 

When Adobe realized no one was upgrading fast enough, they limited how old your version could be before upgrading - I think it's up to 3 versions old.  (with a tiered pricing structure - the older your copy was the more you payed)

 

Well, it looks like that isn't enough either - the PrePress industry is on life support, Flash can't be pulling in what it used to,  iPhoto, and a plethora of iOS apps are now good enough for most users who are now just editing photos right on their phone.  This is an act of desperation on Adobe's part.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I wasn't aware that it used to be indefinite. The 3 versions back thing was reasonable. Most software has a limit of that type or a certain number of years to be eligible for discounted upgrade. You mentioned prepress. Adobe has lessened their ties to that for years. I don't think your view of Adobe matches their current business model. Sure they still offer cmyk support. They need that as it's still used. It's just not where they look for current growth. If you recall with the announcement of CS6, they originally said they would limit upgrades to CS5. That didn't happen. They come out with something shocking, then back off a little to absorb some of the hand wringing. I think it's calculated.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

If they're too lazy or stupid to do the research about the product, that's their problem.

 

 

If they've moving away from it today, they've done their research and something else was a better fit. If they have to migrate 10 or more seats, do you think that is a whimsical decision? When it's a significant enough change, it tends to prompt re-evaluation as they would have to make pipeline adjustments either way. The shop would be motivated by their own financials and efficiency while you're examining it from the perspective of what most benefits Apple.

post #126 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Well, it looks like that isn't enough either - the PrePress industry is on life support, Flash can't be pulling in what it used to,  iPhoto, and a plethora of iOS apps are now good enough for most users who are now just editing photos right on their phone.  This is an act of desperation on Adobe's part.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Pre-press has nothing to do with Flash. Every piece of junk mail you receive, every business card, every flier, newspaper, brochure, product package, fast food bag, drink cup, bus stop signage, bus wrap graphic, even your t-shirt is all done with Adobe software. Please get real. There is no aspect of print that is not totally dominated by CS suite.

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post #127 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, evidently.

Having said that, I cannot fathom upgrading beyond CS6 under any circumstances. I eagerly await Apple's response, if any.

The problem I see is when Apple upgrades some framework CS6 uses, and that leaves CS6 behind. Then you're stuck with an older OS, then stuck with an older computer when new computers don't support that version, unless you pony up or find an alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No, it is part of the annual contract. You get the new apps as soon as they come out with no additional charge during your annual renewal plan. I don't know, perhaps they will cancel the whole thing if they get a huge number of user complaints, but I doubt they would be so aggressive with this new model if they weren't totally convinced of advantages and the acceptance from their core customers. It is interesting to note that they left Acrobat out of this subscription only program which I suspect is indicative of the primary customer being corporate users who are not set up to have digital subscriptions for every seat especially with the IT lock downs. They also left out Lightroom as I suppose professional photographers are often out on location and may not be able to revalidate their credentials. Although those two applications come with CC it looks like you can still buy to own them.

My biggest concern with this model: without the option to buy outright, where is the incentive for Adobe to innovate? Before, they were at least competing with older versions, users can choose when and how often to upgrade, to manage their costs and features. Now, Adobe knows they'll get their monthly fee. I'm not seeing where the users, as a group, will benefit in the long term.

In the long run, monthly payments will generally cost more than buying outright. It's a harder pill to swallow, but if you could manage it, then you're generally better off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcintosh View Post

But why then would I bring my/any laptop on a road trip? I mean, what's the bloody point? I'd much rather sit on the village green and edit video and images under a cloudless sky than sit in a WINDOWLESS EDIT BOOTH.

Pixelmator is pretty good - they need about 6 months and a couple more coders to be at the Pshop level (being optimistic) and FCP X is almost ready *sigh*

I can't say I like Pixelmator as much as I probably should. The path to get to controls I commonly use takes a couple more steps and is not so obviously placed. Even the help can be inscrutable at points.

That said, I don't use Adobe anymore, I have not used their pro apps much in a long time. I used to use an old version of Photoshop that was included with a scanner, then I bought a couple versions of Elements, which were a handful to keep running at times.

I would like to get Illustrator some day. I like the idea of paying for the software when I need it, but never having the option to buy outright will take some getting used to.

I use Corel Draw (for Windows), paid $400 for it. At the time, Illustrator was $500. I would have paid the extra, but the equipment I bought to use the software had support that recommended Draw. Anyway, at $20/mo, five years of Illustrator would be $1200. There might be value in upgrading, but I like the option to control my costs. I've talked to people that say my use doesn't really benefit from continual upgrades. I can also see the value in the software that it would be worth the extra, but then, why should anyone be happy to spend more, at the risk of getting less?
Edited by JeffDM - 5/7/13 at 6:19am
post #128 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Pre-press has nothing to do with Flash.

 

never said it did.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Every piece of junk mail you receive, 

 

 

I have a sign on my mailbox that says "no junk mail"

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 every business card

 

 

I've gotten 3 cards in the last year.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

newspaper

 

 

Nope.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

bus stop signage

 

 

 

All digital now.

 

And all the rest of the stuff you mentioned can be EASILY handled by CS3.  Companies that make all that shit already own the software and know that upgrading to CC is not going to help them design the graphics for that plastic cup.

post #129 of 180

Quark and iStudio Publisher will never get a better shot at InDesign than this.

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post #130 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Quark and iStudio Publisher will never get a better shot at InDesign than this.

 

Don't forget Pages - already in striking distance for 90% of the population.

post #131 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

I have a sign on my mailbox that says "no junk mail"

 

 

I've gotten 3 cards in the last year.

 

 

All digital now.

 

 

The mail carriers are duty bound to deliver junk mail so your sign does nothing. So your sign is relevant, they ignore it.

You don't receive business cards because you are not in business, The rest of us professionals use business cards.

 

Bus stop graphics are not digital in my area and even when they change to digital they will be produced by Adobe software.

 

You are just clueless about professional graphics. I am a member of all the trade associations for print, web and trade show graphics and you are not.

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post #132 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

This sort of boils down the essence of what I see as the colossally insensitive nature of a lot of reactions here. It assumes that everyone has a steady income. If people have a low, but steady income they might be struggling with their monthly bills. This constitutes a new monthly bill to add to what they pay already. And for what? To use software that they have used just fine in the past — software they paid for.

The problem with the mention about steady incomes and the general lack of income angle is that we're talking about $50/month tops (less for individual apps and students). People pay more than that for other subscriptions that are less important than income generating ones. When people buy an iPhone, they tend to prefer the $0 + high monthly fee vs $650 + low monthly fee.

If you bought the CS Master collection outright then it's over $2000:

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65167117-CS6-Master-Collection/dp/B007R0RJRS

That $2000 essentially gives you enough to pay a subscription for 40 months (over 3 years). If you want to do it the old way, you can save up $2000 and then use it to pay for the subscription and top it up when you can.

It's going to work out more expensive for some people who hold onto software for a long time without upgrading. That's a valid concern but not having a steady income isn't. If you have the money to buy it in the first place, then you have enough to pay for a subscription and the problem is money management not money acquisition and even then, it's a minor problem - no more of a problem than worrying about the cable or phone being cut off. Adobe gives you 180 days, which is surely enough time to stabilise your income.

I do think they should have something between the one app for $20 and everything for $50. I think one app should be $10/month, 3 apps $20/month and everything $50/month. They'll probably be able to figure out better pricing models once they know what people will go for. Right now, they really have to make sure to sustain their revenue. Given that World of Warcraft manages about 10 million subscribers, if Adobe managed this, they'd be able to make their current yearly revenue with $30/month per user. They need to have the prices high in the mean-time to get past the transition.

The uptake was quicker than Adobe expected so they've just decided to make the switch. They got 0.5m paid subscribers in the first 9 months. Some of the 2 million free and trial will go over to paid. I think their 4 million target for 2015 is realistic.
post #133 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Don't forget Pages - already in striking distance for 90% of the population.

Wow! I thought you were a little nutty before. Now it is clear you are living in some alternate universe where Apple is the dominate software publisher for the publishing industry. Clueless does not adequately describe you.

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post #134 of 180

Adobe Credit Card.  Truth in advertising.  lol.gif

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #135 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The mail carriers are duty bound to deliver junk mail so your sign does nothing. So your sign is relevant, they ignore it.

You don't receive business cards because you are not in business, The rest of us professionals use business cards.

 

Bus stop graphics are not digital in my area and even when they change to digital they will be produced by Adobe software.

 

You are just clueless about professional graphics. 

 

Print is dead.  It's over.  I'm sorry you haven't realized this, but newspapers all over the globe are in big trouble trying to move to a subscription model.  The only people who need the latest Adobe products are making movie posters and advertising spreads in Beauty magazines.  The person who designs graphics for paper bags is not using CS6.

 

 

 

Quote:
I am a member of all the trade associations for print, web and trade show graphics and you are not.

 

LOL! That gave me a hell of a laugh!  Hahahahahahaha!

post #136 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Wow! I thought you were a little nutty before. Now it is clear you are living in some alternate universe where Apple is the dominate software publisher for the publishing industry. Clueless does not adequately describe you.

 

Please show me something you can do in InDesign that can't be done in Pages.  Since you are a member of so many Print "Trade Associations" this should be no problem for you.  I'm waiting.

post #137 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

 

Print is dead.  It's over.  I'm sorry you haven't realized this, but newspapers all over the globe are in big trouble trying to move to a subscription model.

Hilarious. Adobe mailed me a promo last year saying PRINT IS DEAD all over it. Then you unfold it and it lists all the reasons why that is not true. I kept it.

post #138 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

 

Please show me something you can do in InDesign that can't be done in Pages.  Since you are a member of so many Print "Trade Associations" this should be no problem for you.  I'm waiting.

Master pages

Preflight

Print Separations

Spot Colors

Table of Contents

Export to a press-ready PDF with bleed and crop marks

Support for Photoshop files including layer options

Support for Illustrator files

 

...just a few.

post #139 of 180
I wonder if this might actually INCREASE piracy. People who might otherwise pay for a stand alone product might be more motivated to try out a crack to avoid the subscription model that Adobe is forcing on them. I know people who have cracked the free trial of CS6 downloaded from Adobe so that the trial just never ends. Probably not much different to stop the CC from calling home.
post #140 of 180
If there ever was a perfect opportunity for a Photoshop alternative to make a breakthrough, this is it. Fsck you Adobe, your arrogance and greed is just stupefying.
post #141 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

If they're too lazy or stupid to do the research about the product, that's their problem.

 

Why do I see "to Blu-ray" conversions all through FCS 2, then?

 

I prefer FCP7 to Premiere and Avid. But for dealing with footage from DSLRs, for one example, it is problematic. Our clients had been getting pissed off with delays in the edit suite, with Avid these delays/problems are non-existant and the clients are much happier. FCPX handles the newer codecs much better yet feature-wise it doesn't do a number of things that many post houses feel are minimum requirements, even though Apple is adding these back with each minor update. It's useable, and we do use it sometimes for some specific tasks, but no editors that I've talked to want to use it day-in day-out.

 

My take on it was that Apple made an error in trying to make to much of a change all at once. Especially considering they pulled FCP7 at the same time. We needed an update to keep pace with developments in the industry more than an entire interface/workflow re-design. They should have transitioned to a new the latter more gradually, over 2 or more versions.

 

Re: BD in FCS2, you can encode in Compressor for BD, but you can't author it in any Apple software. You can author BD in Encore, but not for mastering for replication.

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post #142 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

If they're too lazy or stupid to do the research about the product, that's their problem.

 

Why do I see "to Blu-ray" conversions all through FCS 2, then?

 

 

 

Let's say you are creating a collection of 30 short videos you want independent access to from menus on several different menu pages, and it needs to be on BR.  You need something better than what Apple provides.

 

 

FCS can save to BR with very simple menus.  If you want a finished-looking product with multiple menus of your own design, you are out of luck.  In short, if you have a long movie and want to plop it in to BR, you're OK.

 

Toast can burn BR, but again with very limited menus.

 

Encore is pretty much the only way to go.  

 

A little bit of quick research turns up this:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3632863?start=0&tstart=0

 

Maybe Toast will jump in here to fill a gap.  


Edited by Bergermeister - 5/7/13 at 6:40am

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #143 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris v View Post

Goodbye 100% of their casual home users, hobbyists & self-employed freelancers.\

 

Elements. Much more feature-rich than I would have expected. A steal at $100.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

Sad too. They were on the cusp of running Avid out of town and winning the race in the video field since Apple screwed the intro to FCPX...

 

Premiere certainly got a boost from the FCPX debacle, but "running Avid out of town?" I think we're talking about two different tiers of users there.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post

i do NOT do subscription ANYTHING.

 

So, no telephone, internet or cable?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brother 84 View Post

Until now Adobe needed to make improvements to each CS to encourage users to upgrade. Once we're all under subscription, and with little competition, there will be no real incentive for them to improve the products.

 

I'm wondering about that too now. I'm already over a year into the subscription model because I didn't want to shell out the long coin for an update to Master, but I didn't expect it to become the only choice. You're right -- doing this really lifts the pedal on Adobe having to develop new hooks. Unless new players emerge, but I'm not holding my breath...

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Don't forget Pages - already in striking distance for 90% of the population.

 

90% of the population isn't doing stuff that will ever see a press. They're doing a flyer that goes from inkjet to light pole.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

The person who designs graphics for paper bags is not using CS6.

 

Wanna bet? You don't even have to take my word for it. Pop in to the bag printing shop and ask them.

 

I think you may be surprised to discover how much ink is still being applied by presses these days, and how ubiquitous Adobe products are in the process.

 

That's just print. Wanna talk about video?

post #144 of 180
To be honest, the cloud solution is good for smaller businesses and freelancers who don't want to shell out a few grand in one go. As long as they can rent the software they need for the projects they have on this month and then stop or change what they are renting as the business needs change all is great. e.g. a designer might need AE for one project a year, not worth buying AE stand-alone, but now they can use the software as and when and build the software cost into the project budget. Mind you, I still use CS3 quite a bit 1wink.gif I'd still prefer it if Apple bought Adobe and stopped it selling windows versions though lol
post #145 of 180

No, small users like freelancers, photographers and home users haven't had to spend $1500 to $2000 a year to upgrade, rarely even to purchase initially. I've upgraded almost every version of Adobe software for years while paying significantly less than the $600/year Adobe now demands. And in a very lean (disability) period, I was able to continue with nearly then-current versions while skipping one or even two. That will no longer ever be possible if this lasts, as once CS6 becomes outdated, due to hardware or system compatibility issues, continued work with Adobe will become impossible. Or for anyone adopting the cloud versions but needing to step away for any period longer than six months, most work with will also become impossible in such a situation, as previous versions virtually never open work created with newer software, so you can't go backwards. This will put some small freelancers out of business, at least with Adobe products.

post #146 of 180
I knew they were going to go this way eventually. Ever since Adobe bought Macromedia they have just become more and more greedy. This reeks of fail imo.
post #147 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentagniello View Post

don't get me started... WORST.  PHONE.  SUPPORT. EVER!!!!

Seriously, each call I made took at least an hour and was entirely unsatisfactory.  Each time, and I believe there were three, I had an Indian man who was reading from a script and didn't seem to understand my question.  It was extremely frustrating!!!

This is why Apple runs a call center out of Austin, TX.

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post #148 of 180
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Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Adobe Credit Card.  Truth in advertising.  lol.gif

Hmmm... interesting. People like credit.

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post #149 of 180

After thinking about this a bit, I have two thoughts:

 

1. This move is generally bad for consumers.  

 

2. Adobe will be successful, because we will all be forced to adopt CC.

 

Adobe has not offered me a compelling, feature-based reason to upgrade their software in a while.  I moved to CS5, in 2010, because CS3 stopped working on OSX.  Since then, I have not felt any need to move to CS6.  Adobe likely sees people like me as an opportunity cost, and has shifted their model to force obsolescence upon users.

 

I can complain all I want, but the reality is that Adobe has a monopoly on the space in which I work.  Without Photoshop, Acrobat, and Illustrator, I'd be unable to work with my clients and contractors.  There are simply no viable alternatives.

 

In the end, I will be forced to upgrade to CC.

post #150 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I doubt Adobe would be announcing this if their initial beta, trial and upgrade process wasn't a huge success already. They have probably cut the piracy rate considerably with this model. Usually the folks who complain the loudest about the high price of Adobe products are the one using pirated copies. They wish they could afford it but they are not professionals so they cannot. That leaves them with three choices: live on Ramen noodles for the rest of their life, steal the software, or use some less capable alternative. With the subscription only model, option 2 has been eliminated.


Don't be so naive. 

First, Creative Cloud hasn't existed long enough to get a true picture of how many people truly prefer it over perpetual licenses - the majority of people/companies typically skip 1 to 2 versions between upgrades.

Second, the move comes in more difficult economic times where a lower up-front expense can be an acceptable, if not necessary, tradeoff for a long-term increase in cost - if you're like the majority who skipped 1 to 2 versions between upgrades, the subscription model costs MORE money today, and will cost even more when Adobe inevitably increases rates once everyone is fully locked in to the subscription model.

Third, pirates will circumvent the subscription activation check just as easily as they did the one-time, on-install activation.  And no, to your contention, I'm not using a pirated copy, I'm actually a very satisfied owner of the full CS6 Master Collection.

post #151 of 180

I must keep care of my CS6 package, since it will have to last for decades...

post #152 of 180

Uhm... are you saying that graphic professionals still using, say, CS2 are totally lost? They are no longer able to do their work?

post #153 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keda View Post

After thinking about this a bit, I have two thoughts:

 

1. This move is generally bad for consumers.  

 

2. Adobe will be successful, because we will all be forced to adopt CC.

 

Adobe has not offered me a compelling, feature-based reason to upgrade their software in a while.  I moved to CS5, in 2010, because CS3 stopped working on OSX.  Since then, I have not felt any need to move to CS6.  Adobe likely sees people like me as an opportunity cost, and has shifted their model to force obsolescence upon users.

 

I can complain all I want, but the reality is that Adobe has a monopoly on the space in which I work.  Without Photoshop, Acrobat, and Illustrator, I'd be unable to work with my clients and contractors.  There are simply no viable alternatives.

 

In the end, I will be forced to upgrade to CC.

 

Probably true that you will, but beyond high-level creatives Adobe will have a problem.

 

Pixelmator and Lineform meet the general needs of the average creative. iStudio Publisher isn't even close to matching InDesign, but if Quark did something game-changing, like lowering prices to $399. or launching a cheaper basic version on the App Store, it might help them regain marketshare.

 

Alternatives do exist, but yes, Photoshop pros are at the mercy of Adobe and will bend to their will.

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post #154 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

 

Print is dead.  It's over.  I'm sorry you haven't realized this, but newspapers all over the globe are in big trouble trying to move to a subscription model.

 

Daily newspapers have been slapped around by the internet and savaged by Craigslist. That does not mean that all print is dead.

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post #155 of 180
Just say no.
post #156 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is the model that super high end software has been using for awhile. Creative Cloud is now on the same licensing model as other high end professional solutions. I think the difference is that many pro-sumer type users were also using some of their titles. Clearly they are changing that relationship by targeting high end professionals only. I can't imagine that they haven't considered the implications of such a move and apparently this is the direction they want to go. If you don't like it, you need to find other alternatives. For us it is a no brainer decision. We use Adobe CS->CC and we could not operate the business without it.

 

There is no competition in the market but that is not Adobe's fault and all the pros have standardized on CS so what are you going to do? Pass the additional cost on to your customers.

 

Excuse me? First of all, we're talking about 'mainstream' design-related software. Not "super high end" software…  Which "professional solutions" are you talking about that this subscription model emulates? $40,000 'suites' used in the music and film industries or something? That isn't Adobe's primary marketplace for Creative Suite. 

 

"There is no competition in the market but that is not Adobe's fault…"  Really? Buying out then shutting down their main competition (Macromedia) isn't Adobe's "fault"?

 

It isn't their fault that they're now behaving like a company with a monopoly position…? 

 

When you say "for us", do tell… who or what kind of company do you work for? Because for "the rest of us" (on this forum apparently) this is clearly NOT a working model.

post #157 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Wouldn't you also lose the ability to eat, pay your rent, pay for internet etc? I don't see how knowing you will pay $50/month is worse than coming across a situation where Adobe issues an update and you require the update and unexpectedly have a $600 or higher expense in one month. Would it really be that difficult to keep aside $200 to cover you for 4 months?

 

I said "tight", not "completely broke". I was spelling out a scenario where compromises and financial difficulties could arise. It's common in the creative community. What are you suggesting? Lose the rent or food but for god's sake just keep that subscription alive?

 

Adobe has released multiple updates without me being FORCED to upgrade on the spot (your mistaken supposition that them releasing an upgrade means I'd suddenly have a $600 bill to pay). In my experience, there has never been a paid update that required an immediate update and expense.

 

Have you ever worked as a freelance designer? I can almost guarantee times when "keeping $400 aside" would be exceedingly difficult. You save up to buy the software, plan and budget for upgrades, and do them when you can… subscriptions are for companies and corporate budgets. I doubt this is a model that will work in the freelance market (without causing hardship at the least).

post #158 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The mail carriers are duty bound to deliver junk mail so your sign does nothing. So your sign is relevant, they ignore it.

You don't receive business cards because you are not in business, The rest of us professionals use business cards.

 

Bus stop graphics are not digital in my area and even when they change to digital they will be produced by Adobe software.

 

You are just clueless about professional graphics. I am a member of all the trade associations for print, web and trade show graphics and you are not.

 

 

aren't you special? so who do you work for, mstone?

post #159 of 180

The old pricing models, where people paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars for highly bloated software are on their way out. Earlier you had no choice but to buy software even if you needed just 20-30% of the functionality.

 

Today, with the AppStore model, there are thousands of options out there, that offer high quality software for free or for a dollar. With this sort of competition, the old companies. like MS and Adobe, look to compete by moving to subscription models. Of course, they cannot migrate to the really cheap models because their revenues would drop dramatically.

 

The only thing that is still helping these companies is that their data and file formats are proprietary. As we see open source solutions get better at handling these proprietary file formats, the market power of these companies is going to erode dramatically.

 

I think Microsoft is literally at the edge of the crater with its pricing models, and it has the most to lose with the competition from good enough software for $1, or free open source software. I expect that within a year or two, MS will be seeing revenues shrink dramatically, probably at 15-20% per year, and accelerated fall from there on. Same with Adobe, and other pricey software.

post #160 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

What are you suggesting? Lose the rent or food but for god's sake just keep that subscription alive?

Obviously not the essential ones but you get 180 days to get back on your feet. If you can't sort $50/m out in 6 months then you probably can't afford food or rent, which is a bigger problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

I can almost guarantee times when "keeping $400 aside" would be exceedingly difficult.

Why did you quote $400 when I said $200? $400 is 8 months worth of subscriptions. Surely you can budget ahead 4 months. I don't understand why people have a problem with the subscription model. It's used for a lot of things these days. Do people complain about mobile phone or internet subscriptions as in, if I stop paying $50/m I'll get cut off and then how do I contact people to get jobs, I'll be unable to work?

Everybody needs regular cashflow and I'm not really seeing where paying over $2000 in a one-off fee is a better option than a $50/m subscription. In the long-run maybe but the huge purchase prices were a big problem to people, especially freelancers starting out.
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