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New Microsoft Windows 8 ad turns Apple's Siri against her maker - Page 3

post #81 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


No. Atom based W8Pro tablets - at least those I've seen so far - have comparable weight, battery life and thermals to ARM tablets. And no active cooling at all. If you haven't paid attention, you'd miss them for RT tablets.

WinPro only runs on Intel X86 processors. The amount of cooling required is dependent on the GPU in the device. No fan = poor graphics ability.

 

One other little fact Microsoft only mumbles behind their hand is that the RT version of Office is a crippled version, it is NOT full featured like its X86 version. The only way to run the full-featured version of Office on a RT tablet is to subscribe to the cloud version of Office for $100 per year. Since none of the Windows tablets come with optional transmitters like the iPad does, you only have cloud accessibility when you are near a wifi router. Forget working on a commuter train or checking your email from your vacation cabin.

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post #82 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Oh thank god! I worried there for a minute the iPad would be soiled by the Office Ribbon.

That was certainly the most useless invention of all the things MS has done. Completely and utterly annoying, frustrating experience. That's why I installed Ubit plugin on one of my work PeeCee's:

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post #83 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Not at $499 is it a full Windows 8 tablet. 

Anyway, I say good for Microsoft! They made it through the whole commercial without the tablet freezing up or the battery running out. 

Don't know about US pricing, but check these NZ prices, from the same store:

http://www.dicksmith.co.nz/product/XC8606/10-1-quot-me400c-1b035w-64gb-windows-8-tablet

http://www.dicksmith.co.nz/product/XA2016/ipad-wi-fi-64gb-white-4th-gen

Asus is $699, while iPad is $1,029. These are NZ$, GST (tax) included.

Just to be sure DSE doesn't have Asus on promo/special while ripping off for iPad, I checked elsewhere in New Zealand (through PriceSpy.co.nz). I can see 64GB iPad 4th gen, WiFi only, for NZ$923 as lowest advertised price. Asus VivoTab Smart ME400C is available for $647. That is the same one as from above mentioned link.

So I'd say pricing in that MS ad is accurate.
post #84 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

WinPro only runs on Intel X86 processors. The amount of cooling required is dependent on the GPU in the device. No fan = poor graphics ability.

One other little fact Microsoft only mumbles behind their hand is that the RT version of Office is a crippled version, it is NOT full featured like its X86 version. The only way to run the full-featured version of Office on a RT tablet is to subscribe to the cloud version of Office for $100 per year. Since none of the Windows tablets come with optional transmitters like the iPad does, you only have cloud accessibility when you are near a wifi router. Forget working on a commuter train or checking your email from your vacation cabin.

Not sure what you are saying. Atom is Intel x86 architecture, and tablet in this add appears to be Asus Vivotab smart which runs dual-core Atom with Hypertreading and x86 version of Windows 8, which will run full x86 version of Office, with no limitations.

RT Office does not support macros etc., but is still by far much more compatible with x86 Office than anything else on the market. Not that everyone need that, of course.

Graphics that come with these Atoms is quite mediocre, correct. It will do fine (smooth) with OS and 2D apps, as well as media playback, 2D games... but will pale behind iPad in most 3D scenarios. Atom based tablets are definitely not best for 3D gaming. Intel is, however, promising good graphics improvements for next-gen Atom, and AMD's new mobile platforms are also promising - google around for Kabini and Temash platforms, later one being pretty much designed for x86 tablets.

You can get W8 tablets with 3G. I have seen ThinkPad Tablet 2 with that feature included, pretty sure I've read some others have it as well (HP ElitePad 900, I think, has at least one SKU with 3G module).
Edited by nikon133 - 5/23/13 at 2:13am
post #85 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cr6AgUo764

Good one!

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post #86 of 148
I think it's a pretty good ad in the same line as "I'm a PC, I'm a Mac"...
1 for Microsoft's advertisement department. Sadly for Microsoft, I buy on the product, not the ad. That means I'll keep iPads.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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post #87 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


So it seems. Can't wait for when they have to pull it or apple will sue for use of protected IP without permission or some such


Don't the US allow for "selective use of quotes for educative purposes"? "Fair use" etc? Seems to me they're "educating" the world about what their tablet can do the iPad cannot do... /s

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

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post #88 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Because... synthetic voice from iPad was only complaining about things it cannot do, a bit like Marvin, the Paranoid Android from Hitchhiker's Guide..? And that would appear better to average consumer... how?

I answered that question in my original response. You are quoting my follow up response.

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post #89 of 148
Garage Band on iOS is an amazing app, and especially for 5 bucks lol. Not to mention the other over a quarter of a million apps. And the iPad mini is $329. Microsoft can eat it.
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post #90 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wait, multitasking?


The fancy (hideous) new Windows 8 apps don't even run unless they're in the foreground. And when they're in the foreground, they're fullscreen, making it impossible to multitask.

Never mind that the entire operating system completely locks up when you're copying a file. COPYING A FILE. There is no multitasking in Windows.
The usual ignorant and misleading or blatantly false garbage, there to be debunked...

- Windows will only pause inactive apps, not "apps in the background" but apps doing nothing, neither background activities nor playing a song, etc.
- You can spit windows apps and use two at the same time side by side, the function is called "Windows Snap".
- Another ludicrous invention that I have never ever experienced while working with it daily... My only guess is that your HDD was off (following some power options settings) and that it took a good second to get back on and accessible. But I am digressing because we all know that you never ever tried Windows 8...

Meh.
post #91 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

The usual ignorant and misleading or blatantly false garbage, there to be debunked...

- Windows will only pause inactive apps, not "apps in the background" but apps doing nothing, neither background activities nor playing a song, etc.
- You can spit windows apps and use two at the same time side by side, the function is called "Windows Snap".
- Another ludicrous invention that I have never ever experienced while working with it daily... But I am sure that you can provide some evidence, right?

Meh.

... And this.

Honestly, I'm finding it really hard to take TS seriously, more often than not. Bias is just... overwhelming.
post #92 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Sirii can multitask. I often have her set an alarm for me, which means she is opening the clock App while she's running. She opens the calendar app when she sets an appointment and the Notepad app to make me a quick memo. I suspect with iOS 7 she will be doing even more multitasking with other apps, maybe even third-party apps. Siri can also take dictation* which is even better than trying to type on the $100 pretend keyboard Microsoft will sell you.

*dictated on my 16 Gb Apple iPad with Siri.

What does Siri has to do with anything here? Same as chubby, boring suit wearing PC guy was symbolising PC in general, stereotype as it was, synthetic female Siri-like voice is used here to symbolise iPad. Multitasking was not mentioned, much as I recall - "I cannot do that" was iPad's reply to two apps sharing screen on W8 tablet - which is basically correct. What is potentially good for MS here is that some uninformed buyers might presume, based on this ad, that iPad cannot multitask, but I don't think that Apple can do anything about that, which is one of the things that make this ad quite smart, if ethically questionable.
post #93 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Really? That's quite an impressive feat they've accomplished if true.

I stand corrected, and admit that I haven't paid much attention.

Which is not really your "mistake" - most OEMs simply don't advertise their products enough, if at all. MS does put some effort in advertising these days, but they advertise platform, not specific models and/or hardware specs.
post #94 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

I answered that question in my original response. You are quoting my follow up response.

Yes you gave your opinion there... So here's mine. I'd expect that majority of users would consider that playing piano on 10" screen is cute but ultimately useless feature, which - coincidently? - might be the underlying message MS is selling here, without saying it out loud (as, of course, that would be a blatant lie). This based on fact that, among people I know that do music, those who actually play it do that on proper instrument, while others use PC/Mac to mix their DJ wannabe stuff. I know a lot of people with iPad, but no one actually doing music on it. I'm not saying no one does, but majority of users they ain't.
post #95 of 148
I guess it "qualifies" as an ad, but why they enjoy advertising the lack of voice command, or Garageband on their tablet is beyond me.

Perhaps they overlooked the fact that we Powerpoint isn't an application Microsoft chose to bring to iOS because it's been handily trounced by iWorks' Keynote. Or, that you can create a fully edited movie directly on the iPad with iMovie, unlike Windows which still lacks a quality product at the consumer level.

Perhaps they're hoping you'd ignore the 2048x1536 of the iPad vs the 1366x768 resolution of the Asus Vivotab Smart.

Hmm... you're right. I guess it is worth hundreds less... well, unless you compare it to the it's spiritual equivalent: iPad Mini. Actually, scratch that value, iPad Mini is $50 cheaper and still provides the same software.

Go fish MS.
post #96 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

I think it's a pretty good ad in the same line as "I'm a PC, I'm a Mac"...
1 for Microsoft's advertisement department. Sadly for Microsoft, I buy on the product, not the ad. That means I'll keep iPads.

It's not even in the same league as "I'm a PC...". Apple's ads didn't tell outright lies like "I can only do one thing at a time". I wonder how long it will take Apple's lawyers to respond to that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaipher View Post

I guess it "qualifies" as an ad, but why they enjoy advertising the lack of voice command, or Garageband on their tablet is beyond me.

Perhaps they overlooked the fact that we Powerpoint isn't an application Microsoft chose to bring to iOS because it's been handily trounced by iWorks' Keynote. Or, that you can create a fully edited movie directly on the iPad with iMovie, unlike Windows which still lacks a quality product at the consumer level.

Perhaps they're hoping you'd ignore the 2048x1536 of the iPad vs the 1366x768 resolution of the Asus Vivotab Smart.

Hmm... you're right. I guess it is worth hundreds less... well, unless you compare it to the it's spiritual equivalent: iPad Mini. Actually, scratch that value, iPad Mini is $50 cheaper and still provides the same software.

Go fish MS.

Exactly. There are always cheaper products. That doesn't make them better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Man... that is Windows 8, not Windows RT commercial. and tablet presented there looks like Atom based Asus VivoTab Smart, which runs full x86 windows 8.

I'm honestly hoping RT will drop classic desktop and become OS for cheapest possible (mostly 7" or so) tablets. Already with current Atoms, ARM W8 tablets don't make much sense - they limit functionality while not really offering lower price, better battery or less weight.

That, or merge with WP8 and become OS for smartphones and phablets, dedicated eBook readers with some additional smart features...

I guess I was mistaken about the RT vs Pro - one of the problems of the MS product lineup. LOTS of people are going to make the same mistake - and buy RT tablets thinking they will run regular Windows apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I admit the ad was funny, but in a pathetic sort of way. Let's see, they showed running a movie while editing a PowerPoint. Excuse me, you can't see the movie running WHILE you're editing the PowerPoint, so what's the big deal? At least when I open Keynote to edit a PowerPoint, the movie pauses so I don't miss a scene. 

The iPad does do some multitasking when it's important, such as listening to Pandora while doing anything else I want. Meanwhile the Surface is burning through its battery while showing a movie in the background you can't see... or God-knows-what-other-programs sucking up batter life in the background.

Then they had the gall to compare a 64Gb Surface RT to a 64Gb iPad as if that is somehow fair. The 64Gb Surface RT has only 23Gb of free memory available to the user sice the bloated Windows OS is squatting on most of the memory. A better comparison would be a 32Gb iPad. However, the way the iPad uses memory and the iCould, even the 16 Gb is an excellent comparison. (which is the size I purchased) 

Finally Sirii can multitask. I often have her set an alarm for me, which means she is opening the clock App while she's running. She opens the calendar app when she sets an appointment and the Notepad app to make me a quick memo. I suspect with iOS 7 she will be doing even more multitasking with other apps, maybe even third-party apps.

All true. I could never figure out why you wanted to play an action game while playing a movie while ordering flowers on the Internet - all at the exact same time.
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post #97 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Apple's ads didn't tell outright lies like "I can only do one thing at a time". 

 

It's pretty clear that's in reference to only being able to have one app full screen at a time, which is true enough (with some slight exceptions for Siri and the widgets in Notification Centre).

 

Some of Apple's Get A Mac ads ran pretty close to the line in terms of exaggerating the truth too.  The zany ones about biohazard suits and time travel especially.

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post #98 of 148
This is a great ad. If only because of the final 'Oh, **** it, lets just play Chopsticks.' And even that's all screwed up. We all know that iPad can do two things at once, and that it can edit PowerPoint documents (in Keynote and other apps). Also, you can play a cool little piano on iPad, too!

So, when I say it's a great ad, I don't think it actually advertises Microsoft well. It's so hilarious that it makes me want to buy an iPad. Just so I can play the piano. (Because why would I get a Surface? So I can make a PowerPoint presentation? Yeah, fun.)
post #99 of 148

With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.

 

If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.

 

If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.

 

Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter. 

 

It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.

post #100 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That was certainly the most useless invention of all the things MS has done. Completely and utterly annoying, frustrating experience. That's why I installed Ubit plugin on one of my work PeeCee's:


That's wow, crazy! But it's better than my suggestion to Microsoft: put a Google search bar in the Ribbon so I can ask Google where to find the feature that's hidden in the Ribbon. It's how I use Office now.

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post #101 of 148
Microsoft seems to forget that everyone basically universally hates PowerPoint presentations. So yeah, not having PowerPoint might actually be a feature.
post #102 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's not even in the same league as "I'm a PC...". Apple's ads didn't tell outright lies like "I can only do one thing at a time". I wonder how long it will take Apple's lawyers to respond to that one.

No... they had ad where PC cannot communicate with cute Japanese "device" (camera? printer?) while Mac was speaking fluent Japanese and had no problem to communicate with device. That was really... truthful.

I don't think Apple lawyers can do them much harm. At worst, MS will change that line to something like "I cannot have two apps on screen together" or something else in that line, and be safe. And maybe get some publicity in the process, not unlike Samsung capitalized well on Apple dragging them to court.
Quote:
Exactly. There are always cheaper products. That doesn't make them better.

In my everyday dealing with customers - and I do a lot of those since equipment advisory and procurement are part of my role - I've learned that price is among primary interests for number of customers - definitely over 50%, likely over 60%. Persuade them that cheaper device can even do more, and they will be sold.
Quote:
I guess I was mistaken about the RT vs Pro - one of the problems of the MS product lineup. LOTS of people are going to make the same mistake - and buy RT tablets thinking they will run regular Windows apps.

Yes I agree with that. RT should not have classic desktop at all, and MS should have made Office RT to work under Modern GUI. That being said, since cheap Pro tablets can be purchased for less money than currently available RT tablets (at least here in NZ), while offering comparable weight, battery life, better compatibility and functionality (through desktop mode) and usually more storage, I really cannot justify a reason to purchase RT. At all.
Quote:
All true. I could never figure out why you wanted to play an action game while playing a movie while ordering flowers on the Internet - all at the exact same time.

You are really splitting hairs here. This is about concept, not this specific single scenario they have mentioned in ad. I've been using this often enough to call it very useful. Having Skype or default messaging app side-open while doing something in main "window". Or SkyDrive portal. Or calendar. Or many other "ors". It is more convenient than switching between apps, in most cases at least.
post #103 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Did just take 7% of the market with it in Q1, and win 8 is selling almost as fast as win 7. So overall not that bad.

Okay.  Yes, Windows 8 licenses are selling almost as fast as win 7.  Now, how many of those licenses actually get activated?  Microsoft doesn't share those numbers.

 

I know for a fact that several thousand of them came on stickers on desktops and laptops my company has bought since the launch of Windows 8, and they have all been wiped clean for WinXP / Win7 depending on location and date (we're in mid-migration to Win7 right now, with no plans to go to Windows 8).  My company is not the only one doing this.

 

The Windows 8 sales numbers are not indicative of market uptake at all.

post #104 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineShedFred View Post

Microsoft seems to forget that everyone basically universally hates PowerPoint presentations. So yeah, not having PowerPoint might actually be a feature.

Microsoft is well aware that Mac users hate PP, or everything else that comes from MS, basically. PC users, however, don't have a problem with it. Considering solid majority of PC users, having PP is definitely at disposal is definitely a feature. For OSX/iOS users who are "lucky" enough not to have MS Office forced on them, it does not matter as they will not purchase W8 tablet, with or without PP.
post #105 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

Not an MS lover, But the mangled chopsticks was "the point".

 

The point being that Microsoft has no clue when it comes to music and culture?  If so, then it's bang on.

 
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post #106 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.

If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.

If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.

Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter. 


It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.

Interesting analogy... 1wink.gif
post #107 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier View Post

This is a great ad. If only because of the final 'Oh, **** it, lets just play Chopsticks.' And even that's all screwed up. We all know that iPad can do two things at once, and that it can edit PowerPoint documents (in Keynote and other apps). Also, you can play a cool little piano on iPad, too!

So, when I say it's a great ad, I don't think it actually advertises Microsoft well. It's so hilarious that it makes me want to buy an iPad. Just so I can play the piano. (Because why would I get a Surface? So I can make a PowerPoint presentation? Yeah, fun.)

Yeah, I'm sure majority of potential buyers will have piano playing app very high on their "must-have" lists. 1wink.gif
post #108 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.

 

If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.

 

If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.

 

Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter. 

 

It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.

 

Way to go daddy! Why do you "paternalise" me? Is it because you realized that you have absolutely no chance of realistically arguing the fact that this ad is not "exceptionally great"? For sure it might be good, bad, OK depending on your point of view. But definitely not one of the best ads around (or of the year, or of the decade). I don’t know how in your mind this qualifies as "finding all good or bad".

 

Personally, I find pathetic that Microsoft gives so much eye time to the iPad in it’s own advertisement and simply comes up with a price slap at the end (and to boot, the ad’s aesthetics are a rip-off of Apple’s iPad ads). But I have to confess that I’m from Canada, and the regulations here don’t allow this kind of ads to be presented (portraying a competitor’s product of IP in a ridiculing way and showing price comparisons). And to boot, it is widely frowned upon by the general public.

 

By the way, what you did there is typical public relations 101 (some call it politics 101); If you know you have no arguments and are destined to "lose" a discussion - start attacking the person’s credibility and present yourself in a superior and authoritative tone.

post #109 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

The point being that Microsoft has no clue when it comes to music and culture?  If so, then it's bang on.

Wow, that's deep, man. So basically everyone who purchases iPad and drop piano playing app on it is suddenly music connoisseur.

Funny thing is, many non-Apple users believe that number of Apple users are there because they believe having an Apple product suddenly makes one better in every possible way - smarter, with better taste, Aryan almost.

I believe that to be one ugly stereotype, but every now and then my belief is being challenged.
post #110 of 148
Originally Posted by simtub View Post
Is it legal to have a competitors product (Apples iPad in this instance) in your own commercial?

 

A better question would be if it's intelligent to have a competitor's product in your own commercial.


Originally Posted by Sensi View Post
- Windows will only pause inactive apps, not "apps in the background" but apps doing nothing, neither background activities nor playing a song, etc.
- You can spit windows apps and use two at the same time side by side, the function is called "Windows Snap".
- Another ludicrous invention that I have never ever experienced while working with it daily... My only guess is that your HDD was off (following some power options settings) and that it took a good second to get back on and accessible. But I am digressing because we all know that you never ever tried Windows 8...

 

Absolutely nothing you have said is truthful in any regard. Windows pauses its Metro applications when they're not in the forefront. Windows Snap is useless for anything beyond a single column chat box or a calculator, as you've said. Guess that's not "true" multitasking, as is so often tossed around. And no, the drive was already spun up. 


Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
Honestly, I'm finding it really hard to take TS seriously, more often than not. Bias is just... overwhelming.

 

You want an effing video, kiddo? Why would I say something like that if it wasn't my daily experience with Windows 8?

post #111 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

With due respect to everyone here, this thread is highly representative of what bias can do to one's perception.

If someone you are crushing on wears a short skirt, you'd think her (or his) legs are long, with the right amount of tone and oh so shiny. You'd refuse to see the stubbles and cellulite even if someone pointed them out to you.

If someone you despise wears the same address, you'd only *notice* the not-so-straight knees, even from a long distance, and her (or his) calves would be too muscular or too skinny.

Of course, to pretend you're not biased, you'd swear up and down that you too wear the same dress. To boot, you'd just happen to be a fashion designer as if such a proclamation would or should shift someone else's optics in an anonymous forum. Yeah, like I am a rocket scientist and Renaissance painter. 


It just never occurs to you that objectivity is not finding all good and no wrong in one party, and all wrong and no good in other parties. You're entitled to your opinions. But don't pretend to be rational, fair-minded or knowledgeable.

Apple's and MS's tablet ads are completely different, especially in how they present the product, so you can't say that people are just throwing out all objectivity for not liking this ad.

The iPad ads I can recall show emotion. They show the device being used in a natural setting. They show why and how this can connect to you people you love. Where the hell was any of this in ad and used superficial and somewhat false measures to compare itself to the iPad? When has Apple ever done this with the iPad?

The only way you could possibly show bias is to use a double-blind test. Switch or remove the Apple and MS logos on the products to see if people will talk up the opposite products. I doubt they would.

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post #112 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineShedFred View Post

Okay.  Yes, Windows 8 licenses are selling almost as fast as win 7.  Now, how many of those licenses actually get activated?  Microsoft doesn't share those numbers.

I know for a fact that several thousand of them came on stickers on desktops and laptops my company has bought since the launch of Windows 8, and they have all been wiped clean for WinXP / Win7 depending on location and date (we're in mid-migration to Win7 right now, with no plans to go to Windows 8).  My company is not the only one doing this.

The Windows 8 sales numbers are not indicative of market uptake at all.
For win 8 licenses it is indicative when comparing sales to win 7 as win 7 was subjected to exactly the same thing.

Win8 tablet sales are indicative to other tablet sales as win 7 tablet sales were 0 and all other tablet sales have the same issues.

Actual figures are inaccurate, but as there all inaccurate for everyone, the guess at market shares and rates of selling can actually be compared to evaluate success.
post #113 of 148
Classic Microsoft, copy an Apple concept but execute it worse. These ads are a feeble copycat of the "I'm a Mac" ads Apple created. The Apple commercials featured two people with clever personalities. Not once did Apple show any Windows products or features in the ads. But in Microsoft's defense, using actors to represent an iPad and Windows tablet would be even harder to pull off given their lack of creativity.
post #114 of 148

I can't believe I am going to say this here. I must be insane....

 

I met a guy the other day that had a Surface Pro and loved it. He'd gotten rid of his iPad for it.  He preferred it because he was convinced served his purposes better than the iPad.  He used it to take pictures and then notate those pictures, which is surely something he could do as well or better on the iPad.  Still, he claimed the Surface offered more precision and worked better for the task than the iPad.  Is that true or was he simply unable to find the right app on the iPad?  I think he probably just didn't find the right app, but he is now convinced the Surface meets his needs better than the iPad.  

 

App discovery is something many people here claim is a "non-issue" on iOS.  There's always the chance his experience may be unique, but I am more and more convinced it is a growing problem in iOS.  Some people are not going to search and search for the right app.  Especially for a businesses, if they walk into a Microsoft Store or Best Buy and someone shows them an app they've always wanted (but could never find), they'll toss their iPad in a minute.  

 

I am convinced this guy likes his Surface simply because he was unable to find the right app on the iPad, but now he perceives the Surface as "better".  The number of apps in the App Store is both a blessing and a curse.  I believe this is an unintended consequence of Apple's success.  

I am not bold enough to say it is going to be iOS's downfall, but I think Microsoft is trying to tap into the frustrations some iPad users have, and I think being unable to find the right app is a big one.  Not saying it is a good ad, but I know for a fact that the people they are targeting exists, as I just encountered one of them last week.  

 

I'm sticking with my iPad, but I think Microsoft's approach here might be more on point than people realize.  I reserve the right to be wrong.  Only time will tell.
 

(Note: Worth pointing out that what's advertised is NOT the Surface Pro)


Edited by rednival - 5/23/13 at 7:57am
post #115 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juil View Post

 

Hate to say it, your trolling skills aren’t too sharp I see...

 

"Out of the park" you say, but you provide absolutely no justificatory comments as to why this would be a "homer" - as if the ad by itself would be self-evident of that fact... but it’s not. This is a comparison advertisement using Apple’s aesthetics to try to steal a bit of Apple's thunder, and that hardly qualifies as "major league" stuff (to keep with your baseball reference). Their primary message is mostly, hey I’m just like an iPad (and if you would go so far as to believe me > even better). But for some reason I can’t seem to present myself to the world without mentioning (and even outright showing) an iPad.

 

Kind of pathetic if you ask me.

I disagree even though I think Microsoft's Pads are terrible.    This ad is addressed towards current PC business users (thus the emphasis on Powerpoint) who haven't bought an iPad yet and are considering a Pad as their next computer.    The point of the ad is that Microsoft's device is a serious device that a business person could use and that the iPad is not really suitable for complex tasks - that it's great for playing with silly apps, but for not much else AND that the Microsoft product is less expensive.    They're also trying to take Siri out of the equation by implying that it doesn't really work anyway.

 

Even if Microsoft's argument is at least partially false, I think the ad is very effective.    Having said that, I think the Apple ads that show a large variety of apps for the iPad are far more effective.     I'm not sure how much "live tile updating" hits home with a business user.   

 

While Keynote is far superior to Powerpoint, people like to stick with what they know.   People don't trust, "well you can save it as a Powerpoint file anyway."   

 

I've actually been surprised that Microsoft hasn't sold more than they have.  Seems to me that if you're a business person who never made any transition to Apple's products and you want a portable device to carry around to do email, Word, Excel and Powerpoint, plus a little web surfing, the easiest course of action is to go with a Microsoft product.    Sort of like the old "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" mantra. 

 

But it might be too late.    Apple has defined what a Pad should be and when people think of one, even if they think of a competitor's, they think of it as an "iPad".    But having said that, to protect the future, I think Apple needs a major upgrade of the look, feel and actions of OSX and iOS.    I think they're lagging. 

post #116 of 148
OH NO! iPad doesn;t run PowerPoint? The world is going to end!!! PP is the worst application EVER!!!!
post #117 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival View Post

 App discovery is something many people here claim is a "non-issue" on iOS.  There's always the chance his experience may be unique, but I am more and more convinced it is a growing problem in iOS.  Some people are not going to search and search for the right app.  Especially for a businesses, if they walk into a Microsoft Store or Best Buy and someone shows them an app they've always wanted (but could never find), they'll toss their iPad in a minute.  

 

 

I agree with you about "discovery".  I think this is a problem for both media and apps.  If you know what you want, it's easy, but if you're looking for "new music that I would like" or "the best app to do X", I don't think Apple has ever solved the problem of how to find the best when there's a hundred thousand apps and millions of music tracks.       The best physical record stores weren't the ones that were the largest, they were the ones that curated the best.    Same for bookstores.    We seem to have forgotten what benefits curation provides.    

 

If Apple curated, people would cry "censorship".    But IMO, it could be a far better experience.   Why do I want to be plagued with a long list of apps that most people consider to be junk?    Also, even at just a few dollars an app (as miraculous as that is), it's very frustrating to buy an app, spend a few minutes with it and then think, "this is useless crap."     

 

As for walking into a Microsoft store, I wasn't very impressed when I walked into the Times Square store, with the exception of one app they showed me for a Windows Phone which looked at signage and translated it (don't know if there's an iOS app that does the same).    And no one at Best Buy is showing anyone a great app because their sales people are completely incompetent, most of the machines are locked to not actually do anything and if they actually demoed at all, which would be a miracle, it would only be the apps that are already on the machine.   And Best Buy is in deep trouble anyway.  

 

IMO, you can survive today as a warehouse store (like a BJs or Costco) or as an "environment" store, which has knowledgeable sales people and full demo capability, but you can no longer be in the middle - just a bunch of stuff on shelves mostly not plugged in or barely operational, except for walls filled with uncalibrated, look-alike TVs, which is what Best Buy and stores like it are.    The only reason why Best Buy has survived as long as it has is that in some areas, it's Best Buy or Walmart.  All the other physical competition is gone.   

post #118 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

OH NO! iPad doesn;t run PowerPoint? The world is going to end!!! PP is the worst application EVER!!!!

That's not the point.   I also think Word is a terrible app.   The point is that those apps dominate in the business world for better or worse.   At one point, I thought I would give up Office and use Apple's apps instead, but even though there's a certain level of compatibility, it's impossible.    If I know I'm bringing my Mac along, I'll use Keynote, because it blows people away as compared with Powerpoint, but if it's a document that I have to share with other people, it has to be PP.

 

Word does all kinds of terrible things when it tries to "help" you.    You tell it to paste in target format and it doesn't do it.   You choose a Style and it frequently works, but it also frequently changes that style to other than you've defined it.   Sometimes, it just refuses to do outline numbering the way you want it.    As documents get long, it doesn't perform well.   And yet, for documents that have to be shared, there's really no choice.    And recent versions go off into space and tell you that it's "not responding" whenever it does a backup save.   

 

And while Numbers does have the ability to overlay different grids on top of each other, which is fantastic and unique, it lacks so many other features that Excel has that I don't find it efficient for anything sophisticated.   

 

So if you don't have to communicate with office workers or corporations and you just create docs for yourself, you don't need Office.    When I give up working, I'll probably throw Office in the Trash.  But otherwise, you do.

post #119 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

 

As for walking into a Microsoft store, I wasn't very impressed when I walked into the Times Square store, with the exception of one app they showed me for a Windows Phone which looked at signage and translated it (don't know if there's an iOS app that does the same).    And no one at Best Buy is showing anyone a great app because their sales people are completely incompetent, most of the machines are locked to not actually do anything and if they actually demoed at all, which would be a miracle, it would only be the apps that are already on the machine.   And Best Buy is in deep trouble anyway.  

 

 

I'll be honest, this guy was a paid consultant.  We had a discussion about his Surface, why he loved it, and why he gave up his iPad, but I did not ask a lot of questions as time was money.  He did make it clear he never found a comparable app on the iPad.  Perhaps he discovered the Surface app on his own, or someone may have recommended it.  I've never been into a Microsoft Store and I am definitely not a fan of Best Buy.  They were just examples, and perhaps bad ones.

post #120 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

But IS a 64GB iPad really comparable to the Windows RT tablet, which only has about 23GB of usable space? And why can't Microsoft get over the notion that we're all just waiting for a device on which to do "work"?

I still don't understand why people are so desperate to use MS Office on such a small screen. What is so wonderful about editing PP presentations or complex spreadsheets on such small screen real estate? Sure you can do it I guess, but would you really want to?
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