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post #41 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





Isn't the 4S $450 now?


 


imo $450 for a 8g 3.5" phone is insulting. The 4.7" Nexus 4 at $200 beats the 4s on almost all metric. That being said, Apple could still do good on the tablet side, the stock could be a buy around $400


Edited by herbapou - 9/11/13 at 7:24am
post #42 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It follows the pattern Apple has had for years - Good, better, best. They simply used the 5C instead of the 5 for 'better'.

Apple is not going to sell a cheap phone. Get over it.

Yeah. Get over it customers who want a cheaper phone for themselves or presents, investors who wanted to see market share increase, existing customers who would like to see Apple maintain market share so the platform is viable for developers, Android users who would like to switch, pre-paid customers who want an iPhone or future investors who would like to invest in a growth company.

Everybody else is happy though.
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post #43 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechProd1gy View Post

Regarding the 5c pricing...Apple is doing the right thing here. Whether you like it or not. Apple is setting the bar not following others to the bottom. It makes no sense for them to gain unprofitable marketshare by offering a low price to satisfy investors.

 

Apple has to support its ecosystem. Profit is the number one way to do that. If they sold a hundred million extra iPhones, they would have to spend $X amount in order to beef up the back end to support (data centers) all the new users. Apple is not going to sacrifice quality of service, potentially pissing off customers, to make investors happy. They have been very smart to roll out new services incrementally. First on top tier products and then waiting to move down product lines until the service has the back end support to serve much higher demand.

 

Marketshare for marketshare's sake is a meaningless endeavor, when you already have a thriving ecosystem in place, huge developer support and the most satisfied customers in the industry. Developers aren't going to run to Android just because it is "shipped" on more devices - they'll go to whichever platform has real users. So while Google talks-the-talk and claims more "Activations", which is supposed to impress, Apple walks-the-walk and reports a very different and much more important number to developers, how much money developers have made thus far; over $10 billion. Activations do not mean anything unless you have other numbers to back the reason why it is so important.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #44 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post


Being completly out of the stock helps getting over it indeed. They can go and paint themselves into a niche market  all they want.

Thus explaining your rabid (and highly visible) hatred, alternating with fanboyism that rivaled Dilger. Your posts were mentally marked as a big "AVOID" for some time for me.

Are you better now? Are you capable of posting rationally?

The best thing about the past several days has been the haircut the stock is getting is good for longs to pick up more at a discount. The stock market is a game of nerves and obviously nobody has any.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #45 of 112

I am now convinced that Apple's refusal to make a bigger screen iPhone was a mistake. It is following almost the same strategy as BlackBerry did a few years ago, of ignoring market trends. Even if they do damage control within the next few months, the momentum they have now lost to compete with the likes of Samsung, Sony and LG will affect Apple in the long run. The short sellers are going to have a field day for the next couple of months.

post #46 of 112
It's amazing how wrong Wall Street was with the 5C. They were expecting a plastic phone with 4 or 4S internals and sold for cheap. Lets not forget there were some analysts predicting the 5C might not have LTE or Siri or the camera would be crappier. Maybe that's what Apple should have done. But if Apple had kept the 5 and knocked $100 off it would people be complaining that the 5 is too expensive? Are the complaints based more on what people's idea of the product was vs what the product actually is? Or do people think because the case is plastic Apple should have shaved off more than $100 of the iPhone 5 price?
post #47 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connie View Post

I am now convinced that Apple's refusal to make a bigger screen iPhone was a mistake. It is following almost the same strategy as BlackBerry did a few years ago, of ignoring market trends. Even if they do damage control within the next few months, the momentum they have now lost to compete with the likes of Samsung, Sony and LG will affect Apple in the long run. The short sellers are going to have a field day for the next couple of months.

You're new to Apple, aren't you?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #48 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Yeah. Get over it customers who want a cheaper phone for themselves or presents, 

Should Apple try to meet the wants of every customer?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
investors who wanted to see market share increase, 
 

Surely you are not suggesting that Apple let investors dictate product development strategy?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

existing customers who would like to see Apple maintain market share so the platform is viable for developers
 

 Please show the data indicating that the platform is no longer viable for developers.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Android users who would like to switch, pre-paid customers who want an iPhone 
 

What's stopping Android users from switching? They can't afford the iPhone? So what? For those who want to pre-pay, there is NOTHING stopping them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

investors who would like to invest in a growth company.
 

Seriously? Anyone who expected an iPhone launch to turn Apple into a growth company knows nothing about investing, and should NOT invest. 

post #49 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It doesn't look to be "embargoed" at all if Ars has one for review and openly publishes what it sees. Here's another hands-on review, meaning they also have one to evaluate and there was (almost certainly) no restriction on commenting about it now.
http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/iphone-5s-1179315/review

Perhaps you're waiting on an Anandtech type highly-detailed review? Those take a while to do properly.
No, all these are just hands on observations after the event. Not someone getting several days with the phone to do a proper review. Maybe those are coming out next week.
post #50 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775 View Post
 

Just because the iPhone has a chip that supports China Mobile's network, doesn't mean China Mobile will sell or support it. 

 

I agree

post #51 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Isn't the 4S $450 now?

 

imo $450 for a 8g 3.5" phone is insulting. The 4.7" Nexus 4 at $200 beats the 4s on almost all metric. That being said, Apple could still do good on the tablet side, the stock could be a buy around $400

 

Then don't get it. Apple is not stupid. If there was no market for this, they wouldn't keep the 4S around. 

post #52 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

To garner market share. Apple has been downgraded by 3 banks today despite the china mobile deal. The stock market wants apple to surrender margin for share, it is a platform war after all. Android is fast becoming the developer first option here in Europe. America may be an iOS bubble. The world isn't. And why wouldn't apple compete?
And yet Wall Street dings the stock when profits and margins are lower than prior quarter/year. Give me the name of one analysts that says they want Apple to sacrifice margins and profits.
post #53 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It follows the pattern Apple has had for years - Good, better, best. They simply used the 5C instead of the 5 for 'better'.

Apple is not going to sell a cheap phone. Get over it.

In what capacity do you consider the 5C 'better' than the 5? For Apple's bottom line yes, but I consider it a different option not a better one for consumers.
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post #54 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It doesn't look to be "embargoed" at all if Ars has one for review and openly publishes what it sees. Here's another hands-on review, meaning they also have one to evaluate and there was (almost certainly) no restriction on commenting about it now.
http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/iphone-5s-1179315/review

Perhaps you're waiting on an Anandtech type highly-detailed review? Those take a while to do properly.
 
No, all these are just hands on observations after the event. Not someone getting several days with the phone to do a proper review. Maybe those are coming out next week.

Embargoes only apply when a product hasn't been revealed to the public yet. There is no reason for an embargo here.

post #55 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

I guess the message to take out of this is there is only so much money you can squeeze out of the smartphone market and Apple is topped out.  If they cant come up with a profitable lower end phone that wont cannibalize high end sales then this pricing makes sense, but it sends a clear message Apple stock only has one way to go, down.

Under Cook's tenure the only thing they've done is make a small iPad.  Is Apple ever going to release a new product under Cook?  Apple is floundering (once again, in comparison to the last 6 years) and unless they can make money off the operating system it's hard to see the trend reversing itself.
No, Apple' never going to release a new product again. In fact Tim Cook's plan all along has been to run Apple into the ground.
post #56 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

Embargoes only apply when a product hasn't been revealed to the public yet. There is no reason for an embargo here.
Hmmm...so did iPhone 5 reviews come out the day after it was announced? I can't remember.
post #57 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

 

Then don't get it. Apple is not stupid. If there was no market for this, they wouldn't keep the 4S around.

They are keeping it to have a free phone on contract.  Nobody is going to buy that thing in markets where you have to pay full price up front. The 4s internals with the 5c exterior at $350-$400 would have done a lot better. This phone would have lower margins, but would have fill the needs of a lot of people that wants the apple ecosystem.


Edited by herbapou - 9/11/13 at 7:54am
post #58 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Here's another intersting observation from the Verge forums: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4718150/between-the-lines-what-apple-told-us-today

 

Indeed.  They cut through a lot of the crap.  

 

What I'm waiting for pundit-wise is for the shoe to drop on market saturation, market share and "mid-range" products.  

 

Before the announcement there were no shortage of articles, many from very learned sources that talked about how the high-end of the smartphone market was either reaching saturation or already saturated.  They were saying that Apple was making a smart play by going for a more mid-range, or possibly even lower range product so as to keep momentum and sales going.  

 

There were also many articles from these same learned sources that opined that even though Apple traditionally didn't care about market share, that this time they should, and they would because to do otherwise would leave them stuck at the top of a mountain in a predominantly Android dominated landscape.   That people would develop for Android first, and that Android would become the standard no matter what Apple's financial success, unless they tried to increase their market share.  It was these same mid-range products that were supposed to do this.  

Now ... Apple *hasn't* actually made any new mid-range product, and it certainly hasn't made any lower end one.  It's still positioned exactly where it was at the top end of this supposedly saturated smartphone market, that just last week we were told was experiencing "slowing sales".  

 

Sure they are going to get a boost out of opening up China and Japan, and another boost from all the upper-middle-class parents across the world that are going to add a $99 dollar coloured iPhone to their family plan for little Sally and Johnny, but were these agreed upon "facts" just wrong?  If they weren't, then the drop in Apple's stock is well deserved.  It seems to me that the only sales boost here is from marketing and sales positioning, not from a change in product strategy or product design.  

 

Personally, I think they still need an affordable product for the masses eventually if they really do desire their platform to become the standard.  IMO today's Apple is too wrapped up in business with it's head firmly up it's arse, and has lost all sense of how it could really be changing the world.  They honestly seem to care more about making money than putting wonderful product in as many peoples hands as they can, despite their slick marketing materials saying the exact opposite. 

post #59 of 112
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





And yet Wall Street dings the stock when profits and margins are lower than prior quarter/year. Give me the name of one analysts that says they want Apple to sacrifice margins and profits.


Apple did a good move on margins. The 5C at $550 as better margins than selling the 5 at $550. The problem is its still a high end phone on the price side. Despite adding new carriers, I dont think Apple will be able to sell more phones than last year in the long run. It should do better than last year in the first weeks, but volume will quickly died down after just a few months. Apple will need to do a phone launch in early 2014. Maybe this is what they have planned to offer a bigger screen.


Edited by herbapou - 9/11/13 at 7:55am
post #60 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Hmmm...so did iPhone 5 reviews come out the day after it was announced? I can't remember.

It was 6 days later before the first reviews from journalists who got iPhone5 review unit's were allowed to post.

EDIT: With the 5C available for pre-order beginning this Friday I wouldn't be surprised to see the first "official" reviews going up then but certainly no later than the 20th when they're scheduled to begin shipping to the public.
Edited by Gatorguy - 9/11/13 at 8:00am
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post #61 of 112

The only hope analysts have for a cheap phone are an ipod with cellular and Facetime voice. It might happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

post #62 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

In what capacity do you consider the 5C 'better' than the 5? For Apple's bottom line yes, but I consider it a different option not a better one for consumers.
Apple's product line is 4S, 5C and 5S - good, better, best. But I'm basing that off the technology in the phone, not whether the case is plastic or aluminum. No plastic is not my cup of tea, and I do think aluminum gives a more premium look/feel, but obviously not everyone feels that way. And the hands on initial impressions I've seen indicate the 5C doesn't feel cheap in any way. I'm not aware of people calling Nokia Lumia's cheap because they're casing is plastic. Sure people do with Samsung, Acer, etc. but that's because their products do feel cheap.
post #63 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

Perfect?  Maybe 5% of the people on China Mobile will buy a phone in that price range. Of that 5% how many will pick an iPhone?  1 or 2 percent?

The reason the stock is tanking is the 5c isn't going to gain Apple any substantial penetration increase (ie revenue increase) and with nothing else announced no reason to expect the EPS to increase.

The reality is EPS could be $30 this time next year.  That's a big number, but not big enough to sustain the sock price.  Next quarter should look good with both phones being available everywhere for part of September, and then there is the holiday quarter, but hard to see either beating the numbers year over year.
Utter nonsense. You have no clue what you are talking about. There is tremendous value built into these phones and they will fly off the shelves.
post #64 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Someone on the Verge forums made an intersting observation: that the 5C might be a transitional product and next year it becomes the low end and the 5S doesn't go plastic. Of course the question then might be why didn't Apple get rid of the 4S and replace it with the 5C and keep the 5 as the mid-range. I think we know why, but my guess is that's what Wall Street wanted. Until of course Apple reported quarterly results and margins and profits were down.

 

The costs to build out new manufacturing and assembly lines is high. As you produce more and more units from those same lines, the costs come way down. The 4/4S lines have been in place for over 3 years now - talk about maximizing costs! It's probably extremely inexpensive to produce this model now, much cheaper than even the 5C. I also think that the iPhone 5/5S production has turned out to be more costly than Apple figured, which is why the iPhone 5 was dropped and replaced with the 5C. For this reason, the iPhone 5S will get axed next year as well.

 

The line up should be...

5C - $0 on contract (same internals)

5CS - $99 on contract (same internals as the 5S and look the same as 5C)

6 - $199 on contract (New design, new internals, 4" display)

6X - $249 on contract (New design, new internals, 4.7" display)

 

The second screen size is a long shot (maybe the next generation), but I think the next iPhone will be designed around the ability to use a larger display without necessarily making the overall device much larger. This same design could also then be used to make a phone with a 4" screen smaller than it is today.


Edited by mjtomlin - 9/11/13 at 8:09am
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #65 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





And yet Wall Street dings the stock when profits and margins are lower than prior quarter/year. Give me the name of one analysts that says they want Apple to sacrifice margins and profits.


Apple did a good move on margins. The 5C at $550 as better margins than selling the 5 at $550. The problem is its still a high end phone on the price side. Despite adding new carriers, I dont think Apple will be able to sell more phones than last year in the long run. It should do better that last year in the first weeks, but volume will quickly died down after just a few months. Apple will need to do a phone launch in early 2014. Maybe this is what they have planned.

The stock is getting absolutely hammered so we'll see how Apple responds (if at all). Honestly I have little time for Wall Street investors that hammer the stock when margins and profits are lower than prior periods but at the same time complain that Apple's products are too expensive. Well sorry, you can't have all three.
post #66 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

Apple has to support its ecosystem. Profit is the number one way to do that. If they sold a hundred million extra iPhones, they would have to spend $X amount in order to beef up the back end to support (data centers) all the new users. Apple is not going to sacrifice quality of service, potentially pissing off customers, to make investors happy. They have been very smart to roll out new services incrementally. First on top tier products and then waiting to move down product lines until the service has the back end support to serve much higher demand.

 

Marketshare for marketshare's sake is a meaningless endeavor, when you already have a thriving ecosystem in place, huge developer support and the most satisfied customers in the industry. Developers aren't going to run to Android just because it is "shipped" on more devices - they'll go to whichever platform has real users. So while Google talks-the-talk and claims more "Activations", which is supposed to impress, Apple walks-the-walk and reports a very different and much more important number to developers, how much money developers have made thus far; over $10 billion. Activations do not mean anything unless you have other numbers to back the reason why it is so important.

To say that 'marketshare for marketshare's sake is meaningless' is a truism.

 

With the kind of volumes Apple sells -- and therefore of components they purchase -- I would have expected the much-vaunted economies of scale and supply chain efficiencies to kick in quite solidly by now, allowing Cook to make an aggressive pricing move. Indeed, operations and supply chain efficiencies were Cook's strong suit, as Jobs's super-successful COO.

 

What I am finding surprising -- while not minimizing the challenges associated with the sheer volumes involved -- is how misplaced the faith in Cook on that front (including on my part) has turned out to be thus far. Coming on top of a set of botched iMac introductions, supply shortages, dramatically slowed (and bunched) product intro schedules, the 5C pricing and features (e.g., only 32GB?) is quite unimpressive. At least, for me.

 

Don't get me wrong: the 5S is a huge leap (although I am slightly disappointed at the lack of the 128GB).

post #67 of 112
Well... we will hear the same BS over and over again until that day, the day that we are waiting. The day when Apple gets over 10 billion net profit in the christmas quarter. Trolls will eat it. Then the usual procedure of rumours and BS will start.

For me, the only difference this time around, is that rumour sites and others newspapers really created an idead of what Apple should do in order to have a nice keynote: Apple should have done a "really cheap" phone otherwise it would be a failure.
Not only that, but the biggest scam: Apple should do something unexpected otherwise it would be a failure. 2x faster device? granted. Sensor? granted. Best camera? granted. Everything was granted and still that wasn't enough, otherwise the stock would get destroyed.

And here we are.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the stock or what ignorant fools think about Apple. I really think that they are risking a lot by not offering a bigger screen iphone, but low cost devices is overrated. What I "demand" is that Apple's offerings make sense.

In this day and time, an iPhone 4 for 400€ unlocked didn't made sense to me and and only a fool would buy it. But the twice as fast, improved on every way, equal gorgeous 4s? Only the connector pisses me off.
Because of those rumours, I thought that Apple would stop producing the 4s and that the 5c would be the cheaper offering. Of course, it would still be expensive to me, so I bought an Android device.
Sometimes, the WIFI fails. It lags. I had to root it and install a "clean" rom. It still doesn't provide a great experience, despite the fact that Google does their job pretty well.

The 4s will be very capable with iOS 7.

F*ck you:

- Digitimes;
- Business insider;
- Wall street;
- WSJ;
- Every analyst;
- sites like AI to report on things like that.
post #68 of 112
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
A lot of pundits thought the iPad mini would be cheaper too.

 

In fact, there's a key difference here. A lot of pundits thought the iPad mini HAD to be cheaper. They were completely wrong. Therefore it's highly likely they'll be wrong about the iPhone 5C.

 

Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
They finally got the contract to be on the network, but too bad they forgot to bring the "inexpensive" phone they need to succeed in that market. 

 

Says every troll everywhere for the next few weeks until sales come in.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #69 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


To garner market share. Apple has been downgraded by 3 banks today despite the china mobile deal. The stock market wants apple to surrender margin for share, it is a platform war after all. Android is fast becoming the developer first option here in Europe. America may be an iOS bubble. The world isn't. And why wouldn't apple compete?

 

China Mobile deal did not close.  Thats why the stock is dropping so much today.

 

And Analysis are idiots.  You should know this by now.  They wanted Apple to release a netbook, a $199 iPadMini, they said the iPhone1 would flop, that the iPad was a joke, ect, ect, ect.

post #70 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

To garner market share. Apple has been downgraded by 3 banks today despite the china mobile deal. The stock market wants apple to surrender margin for share, it is a platform war after all. Android is fast becoming the developer first option here in Europe. America may be an iOS bubble. The world isn't. And why wouldn't apple compete?

So the banks are idiots. By what standard is Apple a dramatically worse investment today than yesterday?

Their flagship phone was just dramatically upgraded and is better in every way than its predecessor - and is far better than what the competition has to offer.

its midrange phone is dramatically better than yesterday's midrange phone - and also comes in a new design that will appeal to a younger, more fashion conscious audience.

They now have access to a massive new market.

So what is the logical reason for downgrading them and selling the stock? Because Apple didn't do what some idiot analysts suggested? Too bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





Isn't the 4S $450 now?


 


imo $450 for a 8g 3.5" phone is insulting. The 4.7" Nexus 4 at $200 beats the 4s on almost all metric. That being said, Apple could still do good on the tablet side, the stock could be a buy around $400



Except for a couple of problems. First, the $200 Nexus 4 is no longer available. Second, it contains only 8GB of storage - which is largely useless. Finally, it's nowhere near the quality of Apple's system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Yeah. Get over it customers who want a cheaper phone for themselves or presents, investors who wanted to see market share increase, existing customers who would like to see Apple maintain market share so the platform is viable for developers, Android users who would like to switch, pre-paid customers who want an iPhone or future investors who would like to invest in a growth company.

Everybody else is happy though.

Total nonsense. First, developers are completely happy with Apple's ecosystem - that's where they make 80% of their money. The customers who are looking for cheap phones are not typically the ones the developers are after.

Apple learned a long time ago that market share doesn't make a company great. If they simply wanted market share, they could take $200 off the price of every phone - and the stock would plummet, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

In what capacity do you consider the 5C 'better' than the 5? For Apple's bottom line yes, but I consider it a different option not a better one for consumers.

It's better because it appeals to a different audience.
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post #71 of 112
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Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

To say that 'marketshare for marketshare's sake is meaningless' is a truism.

With the kind of volumes Apple sells -- and therefore of components they purchase -- I would have expected the much-vaunted economies of scale and supply chain efficiencies to kick in quite solidly by now, allowing Cook to make an aggressive pricing move. Indeed, operations and supply chain efficiencies were Cook's strong suit, as Jobs's super-successful COO.

And what makes you think they didn't take advantage of supply chain efficiencies? Apple's high end products are roughly the same price as competitors' high end products, yet Apple's new 5S offers a number of substantial advantages. On top of that, of course, Apple actually makes a nice profit that they can reinvest into R&D.
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post #72 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And what makes you think they didn't take advantage of supply chain efficiencies? Apple's high end products are roughly the same price as competitors' high end products, yet Apple's new 5S offers a number of substantial advantages. On top of that, of course, Apple actually makes a nice profit that they can reinvest into R&D.

In Anant's defense he was specifically mentioned the 5C pricing which you accidentally clipped off his quote, not the 5S. He's hardly alone in expecting Apple might have been able to be more aggressive in that particular products pricing. Of course by choosing to offer generally the same user features as the flagship 5S it perhaps wouldn't have been a smart decision to sell it for any less than they have (at least to begin with) as you've said yourself.
Edited by Gatorguy - 9/11/13 at 8:41am
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post #73 of 112
I hope we see a huge advertising blitz from Apple right away. They need to keep the desire up for these phones. The media meme right now is "too expensive". It's way worse than when the iPad mini came out. Apple needs something to drown out the "too expensive " drumbeat. The media negativity is higher than ever and I don't think Apple can afford to assume it doesn't have an impact. The way to shut up all the naysayers is with really good first weekend sales.
post #74 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And what makes you think they didn't take advantage of supply chain efficiencies? Apple's high end products are roughly the same price as competitors' high end products, yet Apple's new 5S offers a number of substantial advantages. On top of that, of course, Apple actually makes a nice profit that they can reinvest into R&D.

I have no doubt they did. Some.

 

What made the iPad such a brilliant product competitively -- I still recall the collective facepalm on the competition's part -- was its pricing. SJ took a risk by betting big on the price, and the bet paid off. I think that a similar opportunity was missed with the 5C (especially considering it is largely an updated 5 except for its back).

 

I believe that a killer 5C intro -- one that truly put the competition to bed -- would have been 16/32/64 priced at $449/$549/$649 unlocked. I think it may still happen, but the move will lack the same punch.

post #75 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connie View Post
 

I am now convinced that Apple's refusal to make a bigger screen iPhone was a mistake. It is following almost the same strategy as BlackBerry did a few years ago, of ignoring market trends. Even if they do damage control within the next few months, the momentum they have now lost to compete with the likes of Samsung, Sony and LG will affect Apple in the long run. The short sellers are going to have a field day for the next couple of months.

 

Complete hyperbole.

 

Apple's iPhone strategy isn't even comparable to what RIM did with the Blackberry. That failure had nothing to do with the size of the screen and had everything to do with the UX and UI. Mobile devices at the time has desktop UI's crammed onto tiny screens that made use a nightmare for most people. The iPhone showed how simple these devices could be to use if the UI and UX were rethought and done right - they didn't just make a phone with a bigger screen, they redesigned everything to work with your fingers. It was amazing to use for the first time, and best of all, it was fun!

 

Whether the iPhone screen is 4" or 5" or 6" ... the OS and the software will be exactly the same and just as useful.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
Reply
post #76 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And what makes you think they didn't take advantage of supply chain efficiencies? Apple's high end products are roughly the same price as competitors' high end products, yet Apple's new 5S offers a number of substantial advantages. On top of that, of course, Apple actually makes a nice profit that they can reinvest into R&D.

In Anant's defense he was specifically mentioned the 5C pricing which you accidentally clipped off his quote, not the 5S. He's hardly alone in expecting Apple might have been able to be more aggressive in that particular products pricing. Of course by choosing to offer generally the same user features as the flagship 5S it perhaps wouldn't have been a smart decision to sell it for any less than they have as you've said yourself.

Yes, I was referring only to the 5C.

 

The 5S is brilliant, as I've repeatedly said (except for the lack of 128GB, which is not a deal-breaker).

post #77 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

 
It's better because it appeals to a different audience.

Maybe because of the color choices but not because of the material it's built with.
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #78 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I have no doubt they did. Some.

What made the iPad such a brilliant product competitively -- I still recall the collective facepalm on the competition's part -- was its pricing. SJ took a risk by betting big on the price, and the bet paid off. I think that a similar opportunity was missed with the 5C (especially considering it is largely an updated 5 except for its back).

I believe that a killer 5C intro -- one that truly put the competition to bed -- would have been 16/32/64 priced at $449/$549/$649 unlocked. I think it may still happen, but the move will lack the same punch.
Might it be possible that in certain markets Apple could/would drop the price in the future? I mean if the 5C really is overpriced we will see that in lowers sales, no?
post #79 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Finally. Huge news.

Yet, AAPL getting punished now, down $19 pre-market. Clearly, the market is reacting negatively to the surpringly conservative 5C pricing. It's a huge opportunity lost.

You people make me laugh. Thank god none of you have sensitive positions in marketing or business in general.

post #80 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Might it be possible that in certain markets Apple could/would drop the price in the future? I mean if the 5C really is overpriced we will see that in lowers sales, no?

 

Of course. But since that won't happen, every moron screaming the the 5C is overpriced will be automatically silenced, and will never ever chime in to admit how pathetically wrong they were. It is almost embarrassing how uneducated and uninformed these blog whiners are. Almost no one with real marketing or business experience, at all. Just whiny tech-watchers.

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