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Supreme Court side with networks, rules that Aereo flouts copyright

post #1 of 93
Thread Starter 
Streaming video startup Aereo -- which sells "antenna subscriptions" that allow consumers to stream over-the-air television content to any Mac, iOS device or PC via their Internet connection -- is likely to shut down following a Supreme Court ruling that the company's business model violated federal copyright laws.



The Court held that Aereo's customers constitute "the public," and that retransmitting television networks' copyrighted material goes against their exclusive right to perform their works publicly as the holders of the copyright. Justice Breyer wrote for the majority, joined by Justices Roberts, Kennedy, Ginsburg, Sotomayor, and Kagan.

"We must decide whether respondent Aereo, Inc., infringes this exclusive right by selling its subscribers a technologically complex service that allows them to watch television programs over the Internet at about the same time as the programs are broadcast over the air," the opinion reads. "We conclude that it does."

Justices Scalia, Thomas, and Alito dissented, arguing that Aereo's digital transmissions do not constitute a "performance" and, as such, the networks have no standing.

The networks' claim that Aereo directly violates their copyright "fails at the very outset because Aereo does not "perform" at all," Justice Scalia wrote in the dissent. "The Court manages to reach the opposite conclusion only by disregarding widely accepted rules for service-provider liability and adopting in their place an improvised standard ("looks-like-cable-TV") that will sow confusion for years to come."

Though Aereo has yet to respond to the ruling, cofounder Chet Kanojia has previously said that they could have no alternative but to shutter the business if they lost the case. "There is no plan B," Kanojia declared in April.
post #2 of 93
ugh.
post #3 of 93

Bunch of sad, old codgers that have no clue about how and where technology is headed. Pathetic ruling.

post #4 of 93

"Plan B" is for the public to shutter the entire cable/satellite industry. That will take a generation, but it is unstoppable.

post #5 of 93

Oh you've got to be kidding me.

 

Good luck to you TV corps. You can only legislate your business for so long. 

post #6 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by walletinspector View Post

ugh.

Ugh is right. I'm torn on this, I used to work in the broadcast industry, but I really don't agree with it at all. I hate the cable companies, but it's a clear violation of the Funky Cookie Company laws of rebroadcasting a signal. My engineering side says who cares, all they are doing is renting out an antenna. It's the profit of copyrighted material the court evidently had a problem with.

Innovation was squashed today.
post #7 of 93
Another ruling designed to crush the consumer and uphold the antiquated ways of the evil corporations. I live in the mountains where, even though I am only 20 miles from downtown Denver as the crow flies, I cannot get TV via an antenna. And even cable conveniently stops a few hundred feet from my neighborhood so my only option was to get locked into a long-term, expensive contract with a satellite company. Aereo was a godsend. Figures that somebody would find a way to shut it down. Irritating.
post #8 of 93
iOS 8 family sharing limitations question:

This is unrelated to the topic but I finally decided to give my wife imac/iphone/ipad her own AppleID on her devices. I will link her AppleID to my AppleID when iOS8 is out so we can share apps/music/TV/movies purchased.

My question is this: Can I link my father AppleID to ours if is home address is different than ours?
post #9 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

iOS 8 family sharing limitations question:

This is unrelated to the topic but I finally decided to give my wife imac/iphone/ipad her own AppleID on her devices. I will link her AppleID to my AppleID when iOS8 is out so we can share apps/music/TV/movies purchased.

My question is this: Can I link my father AppleID to ours if is home address is different than ours?

I think it matters on if the credit cards are shared. That is how I understand it.

post #10 of 93

Seems like the right decision to me. The broadcasters have the right to distribute their copyrighted content as they see fit. Just yesterday ABC announced some of their content would be live on Apple TV. That is the way it should be done. Grabbing the signal out of the air is basically stealing. It is protected just like any other content. Have you ever read the copyright on Apple's keynote broadcast? No rebroadcast, reproducing, re-streaming, etc. is permitted.

 

Aereo knew rebroadcasting was infringing which is why they came up with the convoluted scheme of renting your own remote antenna. Technologically there is no need to have thousands of separate antennas, it was just a legal end run around and it didn't work. 

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post #11 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

I think it matters on if the credit cards are shared. That is how I understand it.

 



well none of our accounts are link to credit cards, we load them with itunes card we buy at a discount. I get all my itunes card with airmiles so they are free actually.
post #12 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by coxnvox View Post

Another ruling designed to crush the consumer and uphold the antiquated ways of the evil corporations. I live in the mountains where, even though I am only 20 miles from downtown Denver as the crow flies, I cannot get TV via an antenna. And even cable conveniently stops a few hundred feet from my neighborhood so my only option was to get locked into a long-term, expensive contract with a satellite company. Aereo was a godsend. Figures that somebody would find a way to shut it down. Irritating.

How do you receive your Internet if the cable stops before your neighborhood? Is there some other broadband?

 

Edit: I just checked Aereo's site and none of the zip codes west of Denver appear to be in their coverage area. What is your zip code?


Edited by mstone - 6/25/14 at 9:17am

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post #13 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Bunch of sad, old codgers that have no clue about how and where technology is headed. Pathetic ruling.

Interesting that the most conservative members of the court dissented.

post #14 of 93
Boo!
post #15 of 93
It's not up to Aereo to decide that they can steal copyrighted material and rebroadcast it. That has been illegal since TV and radio started.
post #16 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
 

Interesting that the most conservative members of the court dissented.

It's not every day that Scalia comes out with a sane opinion.

post #17 of 93
Who needs broadcast tv when you have an apple and a over the air antenna?
post #18 of 93

The conservatives sided with Aero and the liberals sided with Copyright. Who didn't see this coming?

 

Conservatives are pro business while the liberal judges favor intellectual property rights. Copyright is more important than some startup trying to earn a living off of other people's hard work. Copyright is a concept that must be preserved.

 

If Aero had won, the cable companies would have been released from their obligation to pay the networks their outrageous fees. The networks are the weasels in this story. Not the courts, not Aero, and not the cable giants.

 

The networks are subsidized with millions in federal funds to keep the Emergency Broadcast network (EMN) open and in doing so, give their content away freely for billions of dollars in advertising revenue.

 

The networks are flush with cash, yet they continue to fill the airwaves with crappy censored television programming in the name of keeping the emergency signal open? That my friends is the real scam!

 

The networks have had it good for too long. The Emergency Broadcast network should move over to the internet. Divert the federal funds to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, et. al., and give the Networks and their advertising sponsors a taste of their own dog food.

post #19 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Seems like the right decision to me. The broadcasters have the right to distribute their copyrighted content as they see fit. Just yesterday ABC announced some of their content would be live on Apple TV. That is the way it should be done. Grabbing the signal out of the air is basically stealing. It is protected just like any other content. Have you ever read the copyright on Apple's keynote broadcast? No rebroadcast, reproducing, re-streaming, etc. is permitted.



 



Aereo knew rebroadcasting was infringing which is why they came up with the convoluted scheme of renting your own remote antenna. Technologically there is no need to have thousands of separate antennas, it was just a legal end run around and it didn't work. 


 


 


How is grabbing a open broadcast signal stealing? Those people who have only their "local" stations broadcasting openly, they are stealing according to you.

 


Sorry to say, technically many things are illegal then... your DVR... Reproduces (copies to it's hard drive), rebroadcasts (replay's), re-streams (to other boxes in your house or to your mobile device(s)), everything without paying any copyright fees. Your Mobile device, cable company's have the "watch anywhere" app's, and if your have it playing on your mobile device anywhere at all, your rebroadcasting. And don't give me that "cable company's etc already paid for that" BS... guess what, if they did then they would have to know what you are re-doing/watching and pay the parent company 25K for the license to rebroadcast anything and everything you record on DVR, or watch on your mobile device. BTW - that would be EACH time you did. Record a show and watch it 5 times, would be 25K PER TIME you watched, total for that would 125K.

 


 

You don't want to make me curmudgeon, you would not like me when I am curmudgeon.  I go all caps, bold, with a 72PT font and green lettering.  

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You don't want to make me curmudgeon, you would not like me when I am curmudgeon.  I go all caps, bold, with a 72PT font and green lettering.  

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post #20 of 93

I thought that my cable bill was getting too high, so I looked into how to lower my cable bill drastically, and it worked.

 

I tweeted that I was going to cancel my cable service, and I used a hashtag for the cable company, and they responded back to me within an hour. After I provided a few details to them, some higher up person, not just a lowly customer rep, called me back, and I politely made my case, and I made a few changes to my service, and my new monthly bill is more than $60 less than it was before.:lol: 

 

Oh, and one more thing. Not only is my bill much less, but I got them to drastically increase my internet speed also.

 

I'm now getting 100 down and 10 up.:lol:


Edited by Apple ][ - 6/25/14 at 9:34am
post #21 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Seems like the right decision to me. The broadcasters have the right to distribute their copyrighted content as they see fit. Just yesterday ABC announced some of their content would be live on Apple TV. That is the way it should be done. Grabbing the signal out of the air is basically stealing. It is protected just like any other content. Have you ever read the copyright on Apple's keynote broadcast? No rebroadcast, reproducing, re-streaming, etc. is permitted.

Aereo knew rebroadcasting was infringing which is why they came up with the convoluted scheme of renting your own remote antenna. Technologically there is no need to have thousands of separate antennas, it was just a legal end run around and it didn't work. 

How is it any different than you watching a program that you DVR'd over Slingbox, or recording a TV show onto a HDD, and using a media center like Plex to stream it?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #22 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphafox View Post

Who needs broadcast tv when you have an apple and a over the air antenna?

Getting all the broadcast TV channels in NYC has been all that great since 9/11, because the broadcast antenna was atop one of the towers. Some of the networks kept a spot on the Empire State building antenna, and quickly switched to it whereas others had given up their spot. Those had to lease a spot on antennas on Long Island or NJ, so areas of the city would get good reception on one and not the other depending on which antenna you lived closest to.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #23 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade View Post

How is grabbing a open broadcast signal stealing? Those people who have only their "local" stations broadcasting openly, they are stealing according to you.

Don't be ridiculous. Aereo was reselling content that they did not own. The TV stations broadcast over the air so the public can receive it free, not for some other company to resell it.

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post #24 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
How is it any different than you watching a program that you DVR'd over Slingbox, or recording a TV show onto a HDD, and using a media center like Plex to stream it?

Because it is for your own personal use, you are not reselling it.

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post #25 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post
 

I think it matters on if the credit cards are shared. That is how I understand it.

 



well none of our accounts are link to credit cards, we load them with itunes card we buy at a discount. I get all my itunes card with airmiles so they are free actually.



I think one iTunes account will have financial responsibility for all purchases (Apple mentioned "same credit card").  While all purchases will be paid for by that "master account", if someone leaves the family, they take the purchases they initiated, with them.  But while a part of the "same family", all purchased content is available to all members of the family.

post #26 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

 
Interesting that the most conservative members of the court dissented.
It's not every day that Scalia comes out with a sane opinion.

I was thinking the same thing. I hate when I am forced to agree with him.
post #27 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade View Post

How is grabbing a open broadcast signal stealing? Those people who have only their "local" stations broadcasting openly, they are stealing according to you.
Don't be ridiculous. Aereo was reselling content that they did not own. The TV stations broadcast over the air so the public can receive it free, not for some other company to resell it.

Your understanding of the Aero model is as confused as the courts. Ultimately we have to blame Aero and their attorney's for not doing a better job explaining it to all of you.
post #28 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

 
Because it is for your own personal use, you are not reselling it.

You are renting a tuner and antenna from Aero, how can that possibly be different.
post #29 of 93
As much as I despise the cable companies (I cut the cord back in 2010) and the current TV industry in general, I think this is a good ruling. As the other poster mentioned, this wasn't so much about innovative technology as it was about innovative legal gymnastics to get around existing copyright law and rebroadcast rights.
post #30 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Aereo was reselling content that they did not own. The TV stations broadcast over the air so the public can receive it free, not for some other company to resell it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Because it is for your own personal use, you are not reselling it.

There was a fine line between "reselling content" and "charging for the Aereo service"

Unfortunately... the courts ruled in favor of the former rather than the latter.

Aereo argued that they were simply renting you an antenna for your personal use.... but the courts didn't see it that way.
post #31 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

This is unrelated to the topic but I finally decided to give my wife imac/iphone/ipad her own AppleID on her devices. I will link her AppleID to my AppleID when iOS8 is out so we can share apps/music/TV/movies purchased.
Why wait?
You can get her her own AppleID and share apps now.
post #32 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firelock View Post

As much as I despise the cable companies (I cut the cord back in 2010) and the current TV industry in general, I think this is a good ruling. As the other poster mentioned, this wasn't so much about innovative technology as it was about innovative legal gymnastics to get around existing copyright law and rebroadcast rights.

Pretty much this. If the cable companies are subject with their technology structure, which is after all also an antenna and a re-transmission, then Aereo would appear to not be different enough to escape the same coverage.

 

Apartment rooftop shared antennas are passive, the Aereo tech was an active participant in the transmission of other people's content, just like "cable" companies. What they "billed" for would be less of an issue than what they actually did, in my view.

post #33 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Why wait?
You can get her her own AppleID and share apps now.

Edit: Misread your post
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #34 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post
 
Your understanding of the Aero model is as confused as the courts. Ultimately we have to blame Aero and their attorney's for not doing a better job explaining it to all of you.

I'm not confused. I'm just not convinced.

 

Do you honestly believe that this tiny piece of wire buried somewhere inside of a data center can actually tune in HDTV over the airwaves?

 

When antennas are in close proximity to other antennas their ability to receive a signal is greatly decreased, yet thousands of these packed into an circuit board are somehow not adversely affected.


 

 

If I put one of these on my roof would I be able to receive TV signals with it? 

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post #35 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

I'm not confused. I'm just not convinced.

 

Do you honestly believe that this tiny piece of wire buried somewhere inside of a data center can actually tune in HDTV over the airwaves?

 

 

If I put one of these on my roof would I be able to receive TV signals with it? 

There's only one way to find out!

post #36 of 93
I do believe that the copyright rights include "distribute" as well so yeah Aereo is at fault. Pretty obvious really.

Which is not to say that change isn't needed but their tact was not the right one. We need the FCC etc to change the rules of play. Kill the oligopoly, etc

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #37 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not confused. I'm just not convinced.

Do you honestly believe that this tiny piece of wire buried somewhere inside of a data center can actually tune in HDTV over the airwaves?




If I put one of these on my roof would I be able to receive TV signals with it? 

If I'm not mistaken the array of antennas is indeed on a rooftop, at least in NYC it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEDbtFC1Qdc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #38 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Because it is for your own personal use, you are not reselling it.

 

Yeah, it's like a Hackintosh. If you build one for your own personal use, Apple doesn't really care.

 

If you start up a business selling them, as a few others have done in the past, then you will be in big trouble.

post #39 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by coxnvox View Post

Another ruling designed to crush the consumer and uphold the antiquated ways of the evil corporations. I live in the mountains where, even though I am only 20 miles from downtown Denver as the crow flies, I cannot get TV via an antenna. And even cable conveniently stops a few hundred feet from my neighborhood so my only option was to get locked into a long-term, expensive contract with a satellite company. Aereo was a godsend. Figures that somebody would find a way to shut it down. Irritating.

 

I have no sympathy for you, because you CHOOSE to live in a remote location. 

 

Until this morning, I was on the side of Aereo, taking the position that if I can plant an antenna on my own roof in Minneapolis, why can't I rent a house in Los Angeles and plant an antenna on that roof, routing the signal to my TV in Mpls.  All Aereo did was miniaturize the process.

 

Today, I realized that is not quite true.  By renting the house in LA, presumably spending a few weeks a year there, I have partial residency there, and THAT grants me the right to view the broadcast signals there.  Because the broadcast rights are sold/granted to the networks for intended viewing by residents of a specific geography. It's entirely reasonable for them to expect that their broadcast in LA will not be strong enough to reach residents of Mpls. If I become a part-time resident of LA, they can then expect me to access that broadcast. But merely renting an antenna does not give me residency status. And apparently, neither does it give me the privilege of watching LA broadcasts.  

 

I see this as a balanced decision, and a just one.

 

If you want to improve reception in the backwaters of CO, then you need to either get a better antenna on your roof, or MOVE.  As it should be.

post #40 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade View Post

Sorry to say, technically many things are illegal then... your DVR... Reproduces (copies to it's hard drive), rebroadcasts (replay's), re-streams (to other boxes in your house or to your mobile device(s)), everything without paying any copyright fees. Your Mobile device, cable company's have the "watch anywhere" app's, and if your have it playing on your mobile device anywhere at all, your rebroadcasting.

No and no.

DVR is covered, so long as it is just your personal use, under the fair use exemption that goes back to the Betamax days.

Those apps were set up by the copyright holders per their rights.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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