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Scientology - Page 2

post #41 of 54
Quote:
And it's not like most of what Cruise is saying is all that far out - many people think psychiatric meds are over-prescribed, including many in the field itself. You don't need to follow some absurd religion to be concerned about that. [/B]

I think what is detestable is that scientology both dismisses psychiatry in it's totality WHILE prescribing a bunch of horse shit as an alternative.

To suggest that all psychiatric drugs are bad for you is offensive. For those of us who have loved ones that are schizophrenic who don't take their meds because their illness actually causes them to distrust psychiatrists, scientology actually rises to the level of being pure evil.

It's no different from those who would prescribe an exorcism instead of treatment.
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With regards to the other theme of the thread, I do find it fascinating that we can bash scientology all we want, but for some equally nutso religion we must pay due respect else risk a lock.

I'd like to think it is for some reason other than the false credibility lent by numbers (years or believers). I agree with the basic philosophy that people should be respected as individuals trying to find their way, no matter how whacky their beliefs may seem. And ridicule rarely inspires people to re-examine their beliefs. On the other hand, pointing out the insanity of certain beliefs can immunize the un-inducted.

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post #42 of 54
Slate has a helpful synopsis of the psychiatry versus dianetics brouhaha.

At face value, the concepts of analytic and reactive mind (simple and Freudian really) are just as legit statting points as any other concept of the human mind. It's just that, rather than letting this kind of stuff be tested, evolve and change over time into something hopefully more rigorous and consistent -- what both psychology and psychiatry have done -- Diantetics by way of scientology cut itself off from real discourse and locked itself into this simplistic view of the world and people, not to mention getting a bit kooky with the whole aliens in volcanos thing. By taking a hardline stance, it loses the opportunity to be a devil's advocate to psychiatry which is open to both physical and psychological treatment for people, and has a wide range of viewpoints and therapies. Scientologists seem to characterize psychiatrists as dope pushers, but it's just too much of a characature to take seriously, which is too bad because there is some merit to the sentiment that chemical therpay is over-used/abused by medical professionals.
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Scientologists seem to characterize psychiatrists as dope pushers, but it's just too much of a characature to take seriously, which is too bad because there is some merit to the sentiment that chemical therpay is over-used/abused by medical professionals.

The problem is that they take a hardline approach to the issue. To them, ALL the drugs are evil and ruin your purity because they are 'toxins' that must be leeched out through a series of sauna treatments. I agree that there are a lot of things that are over-medicated for, but that doesn't mean that the drugs are all bad either.

Tom Cruise was just on TV talking about how the psychiatrists are drug dealers because ritalin is a 'street drug.' Well, so is morphine. Does that mean that we stop giving patients morphine, instead giving them a carrot to dull the pain because the carrot is 'more natural' and has the Xenu seal of approval?
post #44 of 54
Quote:
I think what is detestable is that scientology both dismisses psychiatry in it's totality WHILE prescribing a bunch of horse shit as an alternative.

For really crazy people, sure - Psychiatry and drugs are the way to go.

For normal (i.e. slightly crazy) people - I have found that co-counseling (http://www.rc.org/) to be the way to go. As far as I can tell, it is similar to scientology - except that it is free, and it is not a religion or a cult, and there are no space aliens, volcanos or boats.

Co-counseling seems way more effective than regular psychiatry unless you are a true lunitic.
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post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
For really crazy people, sure - Psychiatry and drugs are the way to go.

For normal (i.e. slightly crazy) people - I have found that co-counseling (http://www.rc.org/) to be the way to go. As far as I can tell, it is similar to scientology - except that it is free, and it is not a religion or a cult, and there are no space aliens, volcanos or boats.

Co-counseling seems way more effective than regular psychiatry unless you are a true lunitic.

Only a crazy person doesn't think they are crazy... here take this personality test.
post #46 of 54
In relation to the Matt Lauer interview: I think it just proves what a nutjob Tom Cruise really is. His entire argument was based on his "experience"...not that he bothered to explain that. Of course, Lauer wasn't going to say anything negative about him, since it's his job to deal with people like Cruise.
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post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by mynamehere
In relation to the Matt Lauer interview: I think it just proves what a nutjob Tom Cruise really is. His entire argument was based on his "experience"...not that he bothered to explain that. Of course, Lauer wasn't going to say anything negative about him, since it's his job to deal with people like Cruise.

I see a lot of the celeb scientologists who make the argument that the "techniques" they learned in scientology worked for them, so they must be valid. As if I could just as easily be People's sexiest man in America if I only followed the program.

Let's see...

"I was spanked as a kid and I turned out ok."
"Jesus saved my life, he can save yours."
"I pulled myself out of poverty and became a millionare, so can you."
"I lost 40 lbs on the atkins diet, so can you."
etc...

How much friggin wisdom does it require to realize people are complex, situations are different, and causes are hidden in correalation?

There has to be a name for this specific type of logical fallacy, as it is rampant in the world.

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"Evolution is not random. Mutation is random, but natural selection is entirely non-random. Evolution doesn't predict that all the complexity of life just came together randomly. "

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post #48 of 54
I heard on the radio this morning that there is a petition on the internet (I forget where, so google it) to boycott tom cruise's movies because of his outraegous behavior in relation to scientology (think Oprah) and because of his "condescending tone" towards interviewers, specifically Matt Lauer.
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post #49 of 54
There's nothing wrong with the average person, that a good psychologist can't turn into something requiring years of expensive therapy!

You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #50 of 54
Also, another funfact about Scientologists which I was informed of with total seriousness by one of them while in Italy is that there is scientific proof that there are pyramids on Mars which were built by humans (yes, you read that right)...kinda beats the whole "is there water on Mars" discovery.

Oh, and apparently we're all derived from some evil supergod who populasted volcanoes with our seeds or whatnot 70 Million years ago.

And am I the only one who noticed the similarity between the name Xenu (Supergod, see above) and Xeon (the intel processor)...I would get a real kick out of "Xenu Inside" stickers with the intel logo with little horns and erupting or something...BRING ON THE PHOTOSHOP!
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post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by mynamehere
Also, another funfact about Scientologists which I was informed of with total seriousness by one of them while in Italy is that there is scientific proof that there are pyramids on Mars which were built by humans (yes, you read that right)...kinda beats the whole "is there water on Mars" discovery.

Oh, and apparently we're all derived from some evil supergod who populasted volcanoes with our seeds or whatnot 70 Million years ago.

And am I the only one who noticed the similarity between the name Xenu (Supergod, see above) and Xeon (the intel processor)...I would get a real kick out of "Xenu Inside" stickers with the intel logo with little horns and erupting or something...BRING ON THE PHOTOSHOP!

post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
One evening, some time ago, I set up my camera across the street from the Scientology office in Toronto and took a flash photograph every 5 minutes.

Hey, a mod from T.O., cool. I know that building. I wouldn't neccessarily repeat that stunt these days -- it seems people around the world have collectively freaked out about street photography.
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post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
Hey, a mod from T.O., cool. I know that building. I wouldn't neccessarily repeat that stunt these days -- it seems people around the world have collectively freaked out about street photography.

That's funny. One time I was visiting NY City and I was filming my wife walking in front of some government building with my camcorder when some NY cops stopped me and told me I couldn't do that. Apparently this was in reaction to the Oklahoma City bombing.

I told them I was pretty sure it was unconstitutional to prevent me from filming a public building that is in plain site. They agreed, but said they would have to haul me in anyway and I could spend the rest of my vacation fighting it in court, so I stopped. They were nice guys and I don't hold it against them, but that was my first glimpse of how stupid the government could be.

--
"Evolution is not random. Mutation is random, but natural selection is entirely non-random. Evolution doesn't predict that all the complexity of life just came together randomly. "

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--
"Evolution is not random. Mutation is random, but natural selection is entirely non-random. Evolution doesn't predict that all the complexity of life just came together randomly. "

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post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally posted by Nordstrodamus
That's funny. One time I was visiting NY City and I was filming my wife walking in front of some government building with my camcorder when some NY cops stopped me and told me I couldn't do that. Apparently this was in reaction to the Oklahoma City bombing.

I told them I was pretty sure it was unconstitutional to prevent me from filming a public building that is in plain site. They agreed, but said they would have to hall me in anyway and I could spend the rest of my vacation fighting it in court, so I stopped. They were nice guys and I don't hold it against them, but that was my first glimpse of how stupid the government could be.

When I was in Italy last summer, my family wanted to get a photo at the Rome airport with our tour guide. We got one photo in before three guys armed with Uzis came over to us and told us to get the hell out of there. Those guys kept their fingers on those triggers the entire time :o
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