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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD (2006) - Page 40

post #1561 of 2106
If Sony doesn't license to the porn industry than BluRay is dead.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #1562 of 2106
Umm Sony doesn't own blu-ray. That's FUD#4 on some list right next to Blu-ray isn't a Sony proprietary format.

There's nothing stopping Adult media on BR, and from indication, they will be...yes...HD porn...man's strive to get a more realistic experiance that is in the realm of fantasy...
post #1563 of 2106
True. Blu-ray detractors always seem to fixate on Sony. Sony helped develop the format, but it was only one of nine founders of the Blu-ray Disc Association, which is what's in charge of licensing. And the BDA board of directors is now 18 strong, with Sony only one voice out of those 18.
post #1564 of 2106
To be neutural, Sony I believe did(still does?) have the sole software to master a Blu-ray disc.

This does not mean they'll withhold it to anyone wanting to buy it though. It used to be quite expensive, but then like everything BR was expensive back then.

Today though I believe serveral companies are selling or finalizing their own mastering systems for BR, so it's a non issue.

And BR scheme is pretty much the same as the DVD scheme. So anyone that wants to do BR can do BR if you fork over the price.

BR is pretty much a hands off with a dose of politics. Some people just want to hate sony...because it's sony?
post #1565 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuku


BR is pretty much a hands off with a dose of politics. Some people just want to hate sony...because it's sony?


oh please, sony has done a lot of grimy sh*t lately.
post #1566 of 2106
Blu-ray is Sony people.

It started out as a Sony optical format holding 23Gb and has been around for years in Japan.

Sony replicates the movies and spearheads the development. If it looks like a duck...and quacks like a duck. Guess what?
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post #1567 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Blu-ray is Sony people.

It started out as a Sony optical format holding 23Gb and has been around for years in Japan.

Sony replicates the movies and spearheads the development. If it looks like a duck...and quacks like a duck. Guess what?

Emm...sorry that's wrong.

Quote:
The "Blu Ray Disc Association was found in 2002 by nine leading electronic companies like: Matsushita, Pioneer, Phlilps, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung and Sony as contrast to the DVD-Forum. In 2002 the companies were called the "Founders" of the Blu-Ray Disc and later changed their name to "Blu Ray Association" in order to achieve more companies joining their development.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

What you maybe refering to is the sony PDD (2003)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Disc_for_DATA

Quote:
Professional Disc for DATA (PDD or ProDATA) is a recordable optical disc format which was introduced by Sony in 2003. It was one of the first two formats (along with Ultra Density Optical) to utilize blue-violet lasers for reading and writing, which allowed for much higher density data to be stored on optical media compared to the higher wavelength infrared laser technology used in the CD and red laser technology used in the DVD format.

Which is what is based on BR (note circa 2002)

BR =2002 PDD= 2003

Oh yes and to answer your question. Swans and geeses also quack, and are close relatives of the duck but not a duck.

So, you sir, are a quack. Quack.

By your own arguement, Sony shouldn't even want to be in the same room as BR since their own format PDD is in direct competition to it. So tell me which format is PS3 using right now?
post #1568 of 2106
maybe he was snorting quack?
post #1569 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuku

Emm...sorry that's wrong.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

What you maybe refering to is the sony PDD (2003)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Disc_for_DATA



Which is what is based on BR (note circa 2002)

BR =2002 PDD= 2003

Oh yes and to answer your question. Swans and geeses also quack, and are close relatives of the duck but not a duck.

So, you sir, are a quack. Quack.

By your own arguement, Sony shouldn't even want to be in the same room as BR since their own format PDD is in direct competition to it. So tell me which format is PS3 using right now?

Priceless. LOL. Good post, and thank you for sticking to the facts.
post #1570 of 2106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules

maybe he was snorting quack?

post #1571 of 2106
Kuku for cocoa puffs

Did you miss this part?

Quote:
PDD uses a 405nm wavelength and a numerical aperture (NA) of 0.85 for the laser, allowing 23GB of data to be stored on one 12cm disc - the equivalent to nearly five single-layer DVDs, and a 1x data transfer rate of 88Mbit/s for reading and 72 Mbit/s for writing. Plans have also been made to introduce dual-layer 50 GB and quad-layer 100 GB discs in the future.

Confusingly, this all sounds very similar to the Blu-ray Disc format, another optical disc format using blue-violet lasers which is also supported by Sony. Even the PDD's caddie and Blu-Ray's prototype caddie (later it was dropped) look very similar between the two formats. The only apparent difference is that single-layer PDD discs have a capacity of 23 GB whereas Blu-rays can store 25 GB. However, Blu-ray Discs only currently allow a 1x data transfer rate of 36 Mbit/s - much lower than PDD. This is because PDD discs use much higher quality media and drives use higher quality components, making them prohibitively expensive for the average consumer segment Blu-ray Disc is aimed at.

Just as I've stated. Sony took PDD modified it a bit and voila. Blu-Ray. Blu-ray is a Sony creation in which others have hopped on the the bandwagon.
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post #1572 of 2106
Quack!
post #1573 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuku

Emm...sorry that's wrong.

WARNING DUCKS NO LONGER QUACK


Best post ive seen here in ages
post #1574 of 2106
this guy echoes what i have been saying since day 1 about sony and its playstation.


http://www.ps3news.ca/11092006/00/bu...0_really_great


Quote:
"I think Sony shot themselves in the foot [with the PS3]… there is a high probability [they] will fail. The price point is probably unsustainable. For years and years Sony has been a very difficult company to deal with from a developer standpoint. They could get away with their arrogance and capriciousness because they had an installed base. They have also historically had horrible software tools. You compare that to the Xbox 360 with really great authoring tools [and] additional revenue streams from Xbox live… a first party developer would be an idiot to develop for Sony first and not the 360. People don’t buy hardware, they buy software."
post #1575 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

this guy echoes what i have been saying since day 1 about sony and its playstation.


http://www.ps3news.ca/11092006/00/bu...0_really_great

If Bushell is so smart, why isn't there an Atari console competing with PS3 and XBox?

post #1576 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy

If Bushell is so smart, why isn't there an Atari console competing with PS3 and XBox?


come on now if you actualy looked up some history you would know why atari failed... nolan founded atari, he left after disputes before the company even went big.

bushell is a pretty smart man, he founded Chuck E. Cheese for god sakes.

you do realize steve jobs and wozniack worked for him before starting apple in the garage right?
post #1577 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Kuku for cocoa puffs

Did you miss this part?

The bolded parts simply indicate that they are similar. Which would hold if PPD is derived from Blu-Ray or vice versa.

Quote:
Just as I've stated. Sony took PDD modified it a bit and voila. Blu-Ray. Blu-ray is a Sony creation in which others have hopped on the the bandwagon.

If the article is correct then the formation of Blu-Ray preceeded PDD. UDO also uses 0.85 aperture blue-violet laser. Of course its very different from PPD and Blu-Ray.

Here's a source that states the PDD is based on Blu-Ray technology:

Quote:
Sony's latest effort leverages its BlueRay technology for creating disks in the consumer market to manufacture its so-called Professional Disc for Data (PDD) for high-end storage applications. The company is going after the archive market for document and medical imaging, e-mail, multimedia projects, graphics design, audio/video editing and broadcasting.

...

Wolfgang Schlichting, research director at International Data Corp. in Framingham, Mass., said both technologies have their pros and cons. On the plus side for Sony's PDD, Schlichting said the company has years of development heritage in BlueRay. "It can leverage that R&D and has very deep pockets," he said. Going against it, PDD requires a completely new library as it is a new form factor. UDO isn't a new form factor, so this technology can slot into current libraries. "It's an easy switch from MO to UDO," Schlichting said.

http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/...965210,00.html

Vinea
post #1578 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

bushell is a pretty smart man, he founded Chuck E. Cheese for god sakes.

He is pretty smart but that doesn't mean he isn't biased. In the quote he dismisses the success of the PS1 and PS2 as mere timing. Mmmmmkay.

Plus, he believes that a year from now they will be struggling to sell a million units. Perhaps "believes" is too strong a word since his opinions are caveated with with a lot of probablies.

Vinea
post #1579 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir


. . . nolan founded atari, he left after disputes before the company even went big.

bushell is a pretty smart man, he founded Chuck E. Cheese for god sakes.

Thanks for filling me in on that history. I knew he started Chuck E. Cheese. I took my kids there a few times.

post #1580 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

He is pretty smart but that doesn't mean he isn't biased. In the quote he dismisses the success of the PS1 and PS2 as mere timing. Mmmmmkay.

Plus, he believes that a year from now they will be struggling to sell a million units. Perhaps "believes" is too strong a word since his opinions are caveated with with a lot of probablies.

Vinea

Mmmkay what? they were never developer friendly. the ps1 ok, sony did good with the ps1, but the ps2 was not a great system, people developed for it because it had the install base, thats it.

and when he talks about timing, if you think about it, nothing was aroudn to truly challenege ps1.

the N64 was a good system, it had great games, but it dind't have all the support it needed to have and it made some mistakes not going with the cd format.

not to mention sega and their horrible sega saturn system was a bomb

dreamcast blew ps2 out of the water at first. but sony created that false hype, convinced people it was the system of choice and ran away with it.

thats all he says really, from strictly a console point of the the playstations were never that great.
post #1581 of 2106
As expected, xbox 360 HD-DVD add on started showing up at people's doorsteps with copy of King Kong HD-DVD movie. Along with Gen2 HD-DVD players scheduled for release next week, HD-DVD sales # will leap passing by BD-DVD soon enough, oh... I forgot it's already there... I guess someone will pray harder that all PS3 buyers would buy a copy BD-DVD......
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post #1582 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison

Kuku for cocoa puffs

Did you miss this part?



Just as I've stated. Sony took PDD modified it a bit and voila. Blu-Ray. Blu-ray is a Sony creation in which others have hopped on the the bandwagon.

I think you're liking the sound of your own voice a little too much...really read what you are saying.

So the year 2002 is actually after 2003?

I'm shocked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

The bolded parts simply indicate that they are similar. Which would hold if PPD is derived from Blu-Ray or vice versa.



If the article is correct then the formation of Blu-Ray preceeded PDD. UDO also uses 0.85 aperture blue-violet laser. Of course its very different from PPD and Blu-Ray.

Here's a source that states the PDD is based on Blu-Ray technology:



http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/...965210,00.html

Vinea

Well Blue laser isn't a new thing, after all even HD-DVD is blue laser.

PDD is a very different market, not exactly different format then BR. PDD is a RW storage specialist. BR is a DVD sucessor.

BR patients are held by the BDA, so Sony can not just rip off blue ray, or vice versa. That's corporate sucide in terms of modern law. Sony more then likely tooks it's peices of research from BR to make PDD.

BR is made from all the founders or most of them. They all send money, engineers, and specialist in. Saying Sony spearheaded it...is...well...stupid.

If Sony held all the rights to BR, they wouldn't need BRA. IF PDD is BR beta, then BR would not exist, because why share if it's made?

IF anything BR is DVD 2.0 Most of the same people in DVD saw they needed to sell more and better. Notice most of the DVD forum people are BR people.
post #1583 of 2106
Broadcom announces the new BCM7440

Today Broadcom announces a replacement chipset for the BCM7411 found in the Toshiba A1 and perhaps other players. Like NEC's recent announcement of a chip that handles both platforms Broadcom is seriously beefing up the support in this new chipset. After perusing through both PDFs here are some of the salient improvements in the new chip versus the older BCM7411.

The BCM7440 offers:

Improved Video support
Divx and WM-9 support
Picture support -JPG,PNG, MNG,GIF,RLE with 2D graphics engine
6 integrated VEC/DACs for video output
Dual video decoders

Improved Audio support
SACD and DVD-Audio disc support
WMA-Pro and MP3

Improved Networking support
Fast Ethernet
HDi and Navigator support.

Improved Storage/Memory
Dual SATA support
Dual DDR2 Memory interface
Dual USB ports

Dual MIPS processors power the whole shebang.
I imagine that it would take 3 or more seperate chips
to offer the functionality that is capable with this single
piece of silicon. Less material equals less work and a lower Bill
of Materials. Look for more vendors to hop into the market next
year with products based on this and the NEC chips. It should be
possible to make a Universal Blu-ray/HD DVD player as well. All the
bases are covered here.

This stuff isn't exciting to most people but now that Broadcom has announced this chipset we have an idea about where the market is going. And it looks and sounds great.

Booyah!
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post #1584 of 2106
It sounds good till you know what the difference between BD and HD-DVD are.

The chip is the least of there problems(price wise).

Heck you can throw a Cell or a Core duo in there, though extremely cost ineffective.

There's really very little way currently for a universal player except to have 2 lasers in it.

Bascially the track pitch aperture differ, with BR-D on a .85 vs the HD-dvd .65 .

This is basically why BR-D can hold more info and leads to being it most costly to make BR-D.
post #1585 of 2106
Oh you mean this?

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/09/n...d-and-blu-ray/

Quote:
Using a 1mm thick diffraction plate with concentric grooves on each side, the new lasers can recognize what kind of disc you've inserted into a drive (be it CD, DVD, HD DVD or BD) and adjust the beam to play it.

The pieces are coming together.
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post #1586 of 2106
Yea that's a start.

And who didn't think of a self aware laser. But That's a long way from having one that doesn't move.

It can't write for one thing, and another the article doesn't mention it's low speeds and power requirements, making it costly.

Bascially like anything in engineering, the more stuff it has to do, the harder it is to make it work.

It's still currently cheaper to simiply have 2 lasers.

And I use the word currently very harshly. We can do a lot of things, but the economics of it is a long way off.

Like the Ultra HD TV. Not coming any time soon. 4320p haha, what sickly power do you need to use to run that on any modern decoder.
post #1587 of 2106
Agreed Kuku

I have my doubts that Ricoh will be able to manuf this in the quantity necessary to keep it cheap. It may be more feasible for HTPC systems with two optical drives linked into the NEC or Broadcom SoC.

Ultra HD. That'll be great once I have access to 20ft screens with 6000 lumen projectors
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post #1588 of 2106
In case anyone cares, here's another article from someone who had a chance to use the PS3.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/11/10/ps3/index.php

Out of curiousity, is anyone here on a pre-order list and is assured of receiving a PS3 on the US launch?
post #1589 of 2106
Well... update on the xbox360 HD-DVD add on sales seems to be very positive. It's basically sold out and will be selling out on everyone one of them, not just to xbox 360 owners, but also HTPC fans. Below is a link to $200 HD-DVD player on your PC, and soon on macs when software supports it. However, every macintel can run Windows, so if you have upgraded to HDCP compliant video card, you shall have HD-DVD for only $200 for now and will be even cheaper..... $50 HD-DVD Rom Drives in next 6 months?....

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/per...ad.aspx#148368
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post #1590 of 2106
The idea of HD-DVD on a console that already has a DVD player is just stupid. What happens when the games start requiring you have HD? does that suddenly mean you have to buy one or you cant play?

Wiggedy wack.
post #1591 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules

The idea of HD-DVD on a console that already has a DVD player is just stupid. What happens when the games start requiring you have HD? does that suddenly mean you have to buy one or you cant play?

Wiggedy wack.

I guess people who buys BD-DVD or HD-DVD player when one has perfectly fine dvd player would also be stupid according to your criteria? HD-DVD add on is currently for HD-DVD movie playback capability only on xbox360. If you do not wish to get a HD-DVD Movies, then you would not require to get one, would you?

Anyway, you wouldn't try to play PS3 BD disc games on PS2, will you?.......
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post #1592 of 2106
man I am out of the battle i am tired of the conflict its like republicans and democrats
I mean, shit... the boxes are even red and blue!

truly mankind must free himself from all dualities to see what really going on!
its like stereo, sticking your ear to one speaker or the other you dont get the whole picture
to move into the future,this conflict is the consumers sign of that.

DvD is still king! maybe if we dont buy at all they will settle on somthing and get a spine... and stop being bickering corporate children.
post #1593 of 2106

I think the author of the article is really way off base here.

Quote:
But I dont want to get too carried away. While the graphics are indeed much better, the games themselves arent so different. Sure, there are new race tracks, characters or challenges, but youll still end up frantically pressing buttons to steer cars around corners, cross swords with bad guys or get your golf swing just right for that hole-in-one.

Uh, yeah. What else would one expect. There are only certain genres of games:

First Person Shooter and variants
Racing/Driving and driving-combat
Sports (Basketball, Baseball, Football, Hockey, Golf)
Fantasy/Adventure/Role Playing
Combat, non-first person
Movie/TV Games


I might have missed a few. What else is there? Of course they are the same games (well, even with that said, some of the games look pretty unique to me). It's really a dumb observation.
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post #1594 of 2106
You left out stuff like SingStar and EyeToy.

As an aside the PS3 has now shipped in Japan with some stores actually getting, and selling out of, allocations of up to 2000 consoles. Anyway agree with it or not that's another 80 000 potential BD Players in people's homes.
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post #1595 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telomar

You left out stuff like SingStar and EyeToy.

As an aside the PS3 has now shipped in Japan with some stores actually getting, and selling out of, allocations of up to 2000 consoles. Anyway agree with it or not that's another 80 000 potential BD Players in people's homes.

Hmm... 80K units by end of 2007?.... as a BD player?
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post #1596 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac

Hmm... 80K units by end of 2007?.... as a BD player?

100k at current report. And Sony says 100k to japan every week after that.

So just looking at Japan you have 800k or so units by calender end. Assuming they all get sold out.

Just goes to show you don't believe in everything you heard, because things change and change fast.

Sometimes worse (component problem) sometimes better (ramp up going better then expected)

US we won't know sincce it's obvious shipping to Japan and move it around the country is 10x easier then shipping it across the pacific and run through hundreds of miles of land.
post #1597 of 2106
who cares how many units are out there because of the ps3? what if those people dont have HD's? (most dont), so what are the odds they even purchase blurays?

record companies aren't going to care how many blurary players are out there if no one is buying bluray disks...if hd-dvd movies are selling then thats where the studios are going to lean towardsd.
post #1598 of 2106
who cares how many units are out there because of the ps3? what if those people dont have HD's? (most dont), so what are the odds they even purchase blurays?

film companies aren't going to care how many blurary players are out there if no one is buying bluray disks...if hd-dvd movies are selling then thats where the studios are going to lean towardsd.
post #1599 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir

who cares how many units are out there because of the ps3? what if those people dont have HD's? (most dont), so what are the odds they even purchase blurays?

All PS3s come with HDs. I'm assuming you mean HDTVs.

Quote:
record companies aren't going to care how many blurary players are out there if no one is buying bluray disks...if hd-dvd movies are selling then thats where the studios are going to lean towardsd.

You're right, record companies don't care. Good thing film studios do!
post #1600 of 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmightdothat

All PS3s come with HDs. I'm assuming you mean HDTVs.



You're right, record companies don't care. Good thing film studios do!


yeah, its a bit late, typos happen
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