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iWork has no game against Office or WordPerfect

post #1 of 101
Thread Starter 
All the fuss over Apple's iWork productivity suite sales numbers may be much ado about nothing, contacts tell AppleInsider.

While Apple's iWork retail-based sales in the US may have accelerated throughout 2005, recently published data has inaccurately been used to suggest the fledgling software suite is quickly emerging as a competitor to Microsoft's Office.

A recent report used iWork retail sales numbers from research firm NPD to suggest that the software was on its way to sidestepping Word Perfect as the primary rival to Office.

However, when compared to Corel's WordPerfect, overall data from NPD (which excludes OEM and direct sales) indicates that iWork lags far behind in sales -- especially when other sales channels are factored into the mix.

"NPD shows that iWork sold around 50,000 units at retail last year. Corel sold that many [copies of WordPerfect] to one account in the Department of Justice," Richard Carriere, general manager of office productivity for Corel, told AppleInsider. "Looking at brick and mortar retail as a metric or indicator of a trend is incomplete and misleading."

Corel maintains that it offers the leading alternative to Office, outselling iWork ten to fifteen times over. "If you were to take into account OEM and direct, millions have chosen WordPerfect Office in the last year," said Carriere. "We stand very strongly behind our claim as provider of the leading alternative to Microsoft Office."

Corel isn't the only party to rally to its own defense. Analyst also agree that comparing iWork sales to those of WordPerfect (or Office) based on data from single sales channel is unfair. To form a more solid comparison, they suggest that all sales channels be analyzed, including e-stores, commercial resellers, value added resellers and OEM.

"iWork isn't an Office suite," Joe Wilcox, an analyst for JupiterResearch, told AppleInsider. The analyst says it's even a stretch to say the software, which contains only two programs, is on par with products like Microsoft Works. "Any iWork comparison to Microsoft Office or WordPerfect is an apples-to-oranges comparison, at best," he said.

Wilcox says that, according to JupiterResearch usage surveys, WordPerfect remains the No. 2 office suite behind Microsoft Office in the consumer, SMB and enterprise markets with roughly a 15 percent share in each market. "There's an obvious logic problem with the contention that iWork, which is only available for Macs, could somehow rival Microsoft Office," the analyst added.

The rising popularity of iWork is undoubtedly a good thing for Apple and the Mac OS X platform, but it will be a quite a while before the productivity suite can pit itself against offerings from industry heavyweights Corel and Microsoft.
post #2 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
recently published data has inaccurately been used to suggest the fledgling software suite is quickly emerging as a competitor to Microsoft's Office.

I don't think it suggests that at all. All it suggests that of of 2-3 extremely distant competitors, Apple's iWork is doing alright (sales-wise). It's probably doing what Apple needs it to do (pay for itself).
post #3 of 101
I think iWork doesn't compare to Office at all either, I use Pages, but I use Word too. They're different.

However, compare Keynote to PowerPoint and Keynote is leaps and bounds greater.
post #4 of 101
Keynote is a direct competitor for PowerPoint, intended for the same task and market.

But Pages is not a competitor of Word or WordPerfect. It's a different kind of app--better for some people, but Word is best for others.

PS, Don't forget that WordPerfect for Mac is free now I recently used it to convert a WP document from a Windows friend. But it needs Classic--or maybe Sheepshaver for Intel Macs.
post #5 of 101
iWork doesn't rate at all compared to Office - sorry. This goes both for sales and functionality.

iWork has its bright spots, but other than Keynote, it's difficult to compare it with Office. And given the ubiquity of Word docs in all aspects of business, education, and goverment - this isn't going to change any time soon. At least it won't change until there is a comparable Excel alternative.

I despise windows, but MacOffice is actually quite good (with some quibbles). It's time for MacSheep to accept this.

As for sales... oh please. 50,000?! That's flyspit. In the Mac world there may be some folks who purchase iWork, but it's still a distant second. In the overall computing world, the only reason iWork would be in second place is because there aren't any real alternatives out there (WordPerfect Office notwithstanding).

It's kind like saying your party finished second in the election, while ignoring the fact that it's 1% of the vote.
post #6 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by umijin
But MacOffice is actually quite good (with some quibbles). It's time for MacSheep to accept this.

Who's MacSheep, precious, who's MacSheep?
post #7 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Who's MacSheep, precious, who's MacSheep?

Heh heh.. nobody in particular. Just those who accept anything Apple pumps out w/o thinking. Accolytes of the Church of Jobs?
post #8 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
All the fuss over Apple's iWork productivity suite sales numbers may be much ado about nothing, contacts tell AppleInsider.

Uh, I don't think anybody was saying iWork is a major competitor to Word on all platforms.

The thing I remember from the original article is that in the Mac market, iWork was something less than 20% of the market to Microsoft's 70-something %. That is a big deal.

Sure, you may say that the Mac market is tiny, but MS is clearly making lots of money with Mac Office, otherwise they would've killed the project long ago. So presumably iWork is profitable for Apple, and that's clearly what matters.

iWork's near-20% market share must be galling to MS, especially considering iWork doesn't even have a spreadsheet, and didn't have any spreadsheet-like capability until a few weeks ago.

Gee, can anyone guess why MS is now promising Office for the Mac for another 5 years? It was in payment for Apple killing Cells or whatever their supposed spreadsheet project was.
post #9 of 101
I call bullsh*t! I use iWork in place of Microsh*t everyday, and my resulting papers and presentations look better and they're easier to format than anything I've ever done with Word or PowerPoint. These guys are only towing the line of so called "established businesses" that have bought into a buying agreement with whichever named companies and their discerning product. If anyone was to start a company from the ground up today, and they deployed Macs, they would be stupid not to use the much under rated iWork suite. iWork 06 is more powerful than most people care to understand.... and those who think that it doesn't compare to the supposed "industry standards" are only being ignorant of the truth. This reminds me of the time when people were laughing at Adobe's Indesign. "That will never compete with Quark", yet just a few months after it was released, I know 3 different start up printing companies that used Indesign over Quark (since starting up after 2000). Funny.... now Indesign has a large lead over Quark when you look at newer print companies.
Either believe the "old standard" or move to the new reality.
post #10 of 101
On top of that.. I forgot to mention that I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada. This is where more business people (that I know of within graphic, sound, video, fashion or even medical) are starting up with Macs, and we'll be getting a new Apple store on Robson within the next 3 months!
Cheers.. and here's to a virus free computer experience....
post #11 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by NeutrixX
I call bullsh*t! I use iWork in place of Microsh*t

Well, this gives you instant credibility.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #12 of 101
I basically agree with this article. I've been saying this as well.

iWork isn't even a good competitor to the now ancient Appleworks, which has been abandoned.

Yes, yes, I know that Pages is nice, and that Keynote works well also. But it doesn't have a spreadsheet, painting program, drawing program, or database.

Appleworks may have been simple in each of its functions, but overall, it was always considered to be far better than Microsoft Works.
post #13 of 101
iWork certainly isn't an office suite and most comparisons are moot. While some people may try to use it as one, for the most part, iWork targets different (or not enough) needs and not really the same market.

Once Numbers is added, assuming it would go into iWork and assuming it is a spreadsheet program, then we can talk about being considered an office-type suite. Some sort of database app would help as that has been part of many different office suites maybe fifteen years now, I remember using such a suite that ran in DOS character mode.
post #14 of 101
The original figures from NPD were talking about the retail market. Of course we all knew that the OEM and corporate market wasn't going to yield the same percentages.

Firstly, there's only one OEM that could bundle in iWork, Apple, and it doesn't. If it did, they'd miraculously sell another 5 million copies a year. It'd be easy for Apple to immediately jump to number two in the market and quite possibly number 1 on the Mac. I wonder where AppleWorks was on the OEM market sales though?

Secondly, what the NPD figures showed was that when users have to buy the package themselves outside of OEM bundles or corporate bulk purchases, iWork is the number two choice. That's good news for Apple and bad for Corel. I wonder how many users who got Corel Office free with their PC actually use it? Just as many people don't use AppleWorks.

Thirdly, little sticklebacks fighting in the pond when there's a whale in the deep end is particularly stupid. They should combine forces.

50,000 copies of iWork in the last year though - that's 2.75 million pounds. Not bad. I bet that's paid for the development at least and that's just US sales. Now let's hope there's more sales this year so they can push on with development.
post #15 of 101
Does that 50,000 unity number include those sold online through Apple.com or Amazon? It seems that online sales of WordPerfect and Office aren't counted, so it seems that online sales of iWork wouldn't be, either.

Pages is slick. I'd like to see "version" features added and "track changes," but other than that I can't think of anything I'm missing. Add a spreadsheet, and I'd be very happy to never touch Office again. But to think that iWork is any sort of commercial competitor to Microsoft Office is laughable.
post #16 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
iWork isn't even a good competitor to the now ancient Appleworks, which has been abandoned.

Yes, yes, I know that Pages is nice, and that Keynote works well also. But it doesn't have a spreadsheet, painting program, drawing program, or database.

Apart from the spreadsheet, neither has MS Mac Office. ;-)

I was actually hoping Apple would buy in the missing bits this past year rather than piss off another couple of 3rd party developers.
post #17 of 101
There is no WordPerfect for Mac OS X.

Where is the free WordPerfect for Mac OS 9?

Any petition of WordPerfect for Mac OS X on line anywhere? We hate M$ Word and would love to purchase WordPerfect for Mac OS X when if available.

Cannot find any information at http://www.corel.com

Thanks.
post #18 of 101
Office on Windows is approaching DOS days in terms of it's usability. I'm serious - try entering a table of contents entry for instance: you see markup tags in your document. WTF ?

I just produced a doc for work, and found it much easier and quicker to do the work in Pages 2.0, and then export to Word format for 'industry standard compatibility' The Word export appears flawless now, too.
post #19 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by Fireball1244
But to think that iWork is any sort of commercial competitor to Microsoft Office is laughable.

iWork has almost 20% of the market. So clearly, at least 20% of the market doesn't need a spreadsheet. I know a lot of people who've never even used one. And I'll bet half of the people who own iWork have never even opened Keynote.

Most people surf the web, check e-mail, listen to iTunes, and use a word processor. And that's pretty much it. For that 20%-40% of the market, iWork is plenty. It's just enough marketshare to piss off Microsoft.

Clearly, as it stands, iWork could never garner more than half of the Office market, so it won't own the market anytime soon. Probably never, since MS got Numbers killed off. But it seems silly to say that everybody needs a spreadsheet or database or drawing program or whatever.

Yeah, if Apple wants to own the market it needs a spreadsheet. If it just wants a compelling, profitable product, it'll be happy with 20% of the market and leave it pretty much as is.
post #20 of 101
I read somewhere that iWork has more users than Corel Word Perfect I don't know if it's true or not
post #21 of 101
The article is such horseshit. Nobody suggested that iWorks was a competitor for WordPerfect and MS. It's not and never will be available for Windows. WTF?

However gaining 20% of Mac market share AND encouraging MS to re-commit for five years is a job well done.
post #22 of 101
I'm not concerned about iWorks market share, it really has no meaning since it won't be available in a Windows version.

For me iWork is a work in progress to eventually replace AppleWorks and will take care of a lot of user needs when finalized.

There is definitely a need for a spreadsheet in a traditional format. There is also a need for a version of Filemaker Jr. to take care of the database needs and I see both of these being added when they are ready.

Regardless of the level of development iWorks reaches it isn't going to take over the lead from Office as long as business require Office for some functions - it will just add different functions for users, many of them more attractive than Office.

When you remember that iWork has only been available for just over a year, with a bit longer for Keynote, and compare that to the years of development behind Office it appears that Apple is doing pretty well.
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post #23 of 101
Does iWork open or import MacWrite Pro documents? Would be great for us (not requiring MacLink Plus Deluxe, which does not convert properly).
post #24 of 101
iWork is NOT a competitor to Office. Unfortunately, many people right here in these threads have been saying that it is. So when some question that and ask who is saying that, it's easy to read back into previous threads and find many who are.

Having said that, it can also be said that perhaps 20% of Mac users are using it rather than Office. That might be true, but those people don't need the features that Office has.

It's one thing to say that Pages is just as good as Word for what they do, and so they don't need Office. That Office, therefore, is no better than Pages. That is surely true.

But it's another thing to say that iWork can substitute for Office for those who DO need the features of Office.

In that sense, iWork does not become useful.

It's true that Office doesn't have a drawing, or painting module. That's because it wasn't designed primarily for schools and the home, as Appleworks was.

It's too bad that Office for the Mac doesn't have Access as well, as does the PC version. But, Filemaker is so popular here, that it likely didn't make sense for them to add it.

If you do need an office suite that doesn't cost too much. and that includes Excel, then you can always buy the Office Student/Teacher edition. That is close to being identical to the much more expensive Office suite. I've seen it selling for as little as $110, for the Mac, though a more usual price is about $135.
post #25 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by zunx
Does iWork open or import MacWrite Pro documents? Would be great for us (not requiring MacLink Plus Deluxe, which does not convert properly).

I suspect not but if you've got one handy I can check.
post #26 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
But it doesn't have a spreadsheet, painting program, drawing program, or database.

I think you can remove the drawing program from your list because Pages looks like a combination of the word processor and drawing program. I can think of a few reasons why iWork did not get new applications and they are:

1) Apple is concentrating on getting their current applications compiled into universal binaries.

2) MWSF2006 was about unveiling the Intel powered Macs and iLife. Specifically, how iLife, .mac, iTMS (podcasts), and iPods can not only function separately, but when combined, provide a person with a personal digital ecosystem they can use to express/share their life (interests, opinions, etc.) seamlessly.

3) Apple does have a spreadsheet app ready, but because of #2 there wasn't enough time to properly demonstrate it and how Keynote and Pages seamlessly integrates with it. For this reason the spreadsheet will be unveiled at WWDC2006.
post #27 of 101
iWorks IS a competitor to MS Works for 80-90% of Mac users.
post #28 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by troberts
I think you can remove the drawing program from your list because Pages looks like a combination of the word processor and drawing program. I can think of a few reasons why iWork did not get new applications and they are:

1) Apple is concentrating on getting their current applications compiled into universal binaries.

2) MWSF2006 was about unveiling the Intel powered Macs and iLife. Specifically, how iLife, .mac, iTMS (podcasts), and iPods can not only function separately, but when combined, provide a person with a personal digital ecosystem they can use to express/share their life (interests, opinions, etc.) seamlessly.

3) Apple does have a spreadsheet app ready, but because of #2 there wasn't enough time to properly demonstrate it and how Keynote and Pages seamlessly integrates with it. For this reason the spreadsheet will be unveiled at WWDC2006.

I can only partly agree here. Apple is concentrating in getting U Binaries out the door. But, they have a lot of money. They could always hire a few dozen more programmers, if they really want to.

We have Pages here at home as well. It does not serve as a drawing program at all. Far too primitive for that.

iWork wasn't introduced at MWSF2006, it's been around for quite a while now. You're talking about iWork 2.

They had plenty of time to come up with major upgrades to iLife 6, even adding an entire new program, so I don't agree with that.

Unless you work for Apple, you don't know about any spreadsheet that Apple might or might not have ready, or when they might introduce it, other than making same guesses we all have been making. We all know that they own Filemaker. I've said from the very beginning, when iWork first came out, that Apple should have included a simpler version with the "suite". With some mods, it could also be used as a simple database as well.

But we don't know what Apple has in mind.
post #29 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by vinney57
iWorks IS a competitor to MS Works for 80-90% of Mac users.

No, it isn't. Appleworks was, or still is.

I'll make a bet that most Mac users don't even know about MS Works. A product doesn't compete against something, if the customers don't know that the something else exists.

Of course, MS Works doesn't exist for the Mac, so, even there, it isn't a competitor. And as iWork doesn't exist for the PC, it can't, in the slightest way, be a competitor for it there either.

Appleworks was THE cross platform competitor to MS Works. And was always considered to be the much better product.

You can consider iWork, or Appleworks, to be a competitor to Office Student/Teacher.
post #30 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I'll make a bet that most Mac users don't even know about MS Works.

I bloody well know about it. I've a client that sends me their menus in MS Works format. Mac Word doesn't even support all MS Works documents.

I have to use Office 2000 on Windows and a downloaded convertor before saving it to a Word document and then loading it into Pages. ;-)
post #31 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
I bloody well know about it. I've a client that sends me their menus in MS Works format. Mac Word doesn't even support all MS Works documents.

I have to use Office 2000 on Windows and a downloaded convertor before saving it to a Word document and then loading it into Pages. ;-)

Well, I don't consider you to be one of the "most users".

You know the users I mean.

I've never been fond of MS Works either.
post #32 of 101
MS Works is still being made!? I haven't heard of that since like, the 90s. In middle school.

And melgross, I don't know if you know but MS Works did exist for the Mac. Like waaay back I know. Just thought it was an interesting note. I think I came across it on my dad's wicked old Mac IIsi one time. Like back when there was Office 4 or something.

Keynote is harder to use than PowerPoint in a few ways. Like, why doesn't the text get smaller when I type? I thought it would be easier to use. It actually has a kind of retarded interface so far as I've been exploring with it. Pages templates look REALLY nice and so do Keynote presentations though. I mean I don't even know what is is, something with OpenGL or something? They both just LOOK so much...crisper, or something.
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post #33 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
MS Works is still being made!? I haven't heard of that since like, the 90s. In middle school.

And melgross, I don't know if you know but MS Works did exist for the Mac. Like waaay back I know. Just thought it was an interesting note. I think I came across it on my dad's wicked old Mac IIsi one time. Like back when there was Office 4 or something.

Keynote is harder to use than PowerPoint in a few ways. Like, why doesn't the text get smaller when I type? I thought it would be easier to use. It actually has a kind of retarded interface so far as I've been exploring with it. Pages templates look REALLY nice and so do Keynote presentations though. I mean I don't even know what is is, something with OpenGL or something? They both just LOOK so much...crisper, or something.

MS Works is not only still being produced, but they have two versions, including Works 2006, for $99.

http://www.microsoft.com/products/works/products.aspx

Yes, they did make it for the Mac, many moons ago. It lost out to Appleworks on the Mac. though, and hasn't been seen for ages, so, that doesn't really count.
post #34 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I can only partly agree here. Apple is concentrating in getting U Binaries out the door. But, they have a lot of money. They could always hire a few dozen more programmers, if they really want to.



Maybe it takes longer than you think. Remember, the first rumors of Pages showed up in 2003, and the product didn't launch until 2005. Also, word has it iWeb was originally going to be called Webpages and be part of iWork, so the Spreadsheet might have been a bit on the back burner as the web program was meant to be this year's addition to iWork.

Quote:
iWork wasn't introduced at MWSF2006, it's been around for quite a while now. You're talking about iWork 2.

iWork is a year old. Prior to that, Keynote 1.x was two years old.
post #35 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Keynote is harder to use than PowerPoint in a few ways. Like, why doesn't the text get smaller when I type?

Perhaps its encouraging good behavior. You shouldn't be putting a lot of text on a presentation slide.
post #36 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
No, it isn't. Appleworks was, or still is.

I'll make a bet that most Mac users don't even know about MS Works. A product doesn't compete against something, if the customers don't know that the something else exists.



I meant MS Office. MS Works hasn't been around for ages. I had it. It was crap.
post #37 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by Fireball1244


Maybe it takes longer than you think. Remember, the first rumors of Pages showed up in 2003, and the product didn't launch until 2005. Also, word has it iWeb was originally going to be called Webpages and be part of iWork, so the Spreadsheet might have been a bit on the back burner as the web program was meant to be this year's addition to iWork.



iWork is a year old. Prior to that, Keynote 1.x was two years old. [/B]

I know when it came out, I bought it them. As I say, it was around long enough.

Apple has had Filemaker for how long now? They could have come out with a spreadsheet for iWork 05 if they wanted to. The fact that they haven't, could simply mean that they haven't wanted to, not that they couldn't.
post #38 of 101
What does owning FileMaker have to do with producing a spreadsheet application? Databases and spreadsheets are different types of software. Also, the iWork package is all Cocoa programs, and FileMaker is still Carbon.

When Apple adds a spreadsheet to iWork, and there's nothing indicating that they won't, and there are rumors that they will -- the exact same sort of rumors that spilled out 18 months before Pages premiered -- that spreadsheet will be a ground-up piece of software, just like Keynote and Pages.
post #39 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by Fireball1244
What does owning FileMaker have to do with producing a spreadsheet application? Databases and spreadsheets are different types of software. Also, the iWork package is all Cocoa programs, and FileMaker is still Carbon.

When Apple adds a spreadsheet to iWork, and there's nothing indicating that they won't, and there are rumors that they will -- the exact same sort of rumors that spilled out 18 months before Pages premiered -- that spreadsheet will be a ground-up piece of software, just like Keynote and Pages.

If you think about the basic concept of a spreadsheet and a database, you will realise that they have more in common than they don't. Both apps can have columns and cells, both can catagorize relationships between points of data, etc. Actually, over the years, either has been used for simpler purposes. It's only when more complex database types were developed (relationial, object oriented, etc.) that they diverged to what we see today.

Transforming one into the other is easier than you think.
post #40 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by Fireball1244
When Apple adds a spreadsheet to iWork, and there's nothing indicating that they won't, and there are rumors that they will -- the exact same sort of rumors that spilled out 18 months before Pages premiered -- that spreadsheet will be a ground-up piece of software, just like Keynote and Pages.

I hope so too. Filemaker wouldn't be a good place to start from for either a spreadsheet or a database program today. It's one crufty piece of software. Crufty in concept, crufty in implementation. I'd rather use Access than have to use Filemaker.
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