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Apple to target Vista at retail stores

post #1 of 116
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Apple plans to crank up the anti-Vista rhetoric at its international chain of retail stores later this week, the latest move in a broader bid by the Mac maker to undermine the new operating system release from rival Microsoft Corp.

The campaign, set to get underway this Saturday, will include new store displays and employee t-shirts gently mocking Vista as little more than a washed-up attempt at a modern operating system, those familiar with the matter say.

In a multi-page training manual made available through the company's internal retail system this week, Apple challenged its employees to learn and tout the Mac's many existing advantages over Vista-equipped Windows PCs.

For instance, Apple asks that staffers draw attention to the higher costs and headaches associated with upgrading a PC to Vista, the confusing array of Vista software versions, and the fact that most of the system's features have long been present in the Mac OS X.

At the same time, Apple suggests that retail employees trumpet the Mac's superior digital life style software, its ability to run Windows, and its multi-year head start on Vista.

"Go Beyond Vista," quips one of the t-shirts that Apple store employees will begin wearing this week. The shirts otherwise pay homage to the company's iconic iMac all-in-one desktop computer.

The retail campaign is set to join a similar, multi-national marketing ploy already in place by the Cupertino-based Mac maker. The company's "Get a Mac" campaign, which airs nationally in the US, UK and Japan, has been widely successful in raising public awareness about the Macs advantages over Windows PCs since it debuted in the US last spring.

In the latest "Get a Mac" ad designed to counter last week's roll-out of Windows Vista, Apple pokes fun at the software's burdensome security alert system. Previous spots have focused on the PC's inadequate video conferencing capabilities and the need for most PCs to undergo "major surgery" before upgrading to Vista.
post #2 of 116
hate to see this, I think people in apple should focus more on Leopard, rather than just teasing Vista. Bring out Leopard, come on!
post #3 of 116
they should do a get a mac add where the PC guy keeps repeating every thing that the mac does and says
post #4 of 116
apple still does not have an mid-end desktop that is not a AIO what do you about the people that have a good display but can afford the mac pro and the mini is to weak for?
post #5 of 116
im a proud owner of 4 macs from lc3 to macbook but i hate to see apple doing these direct verbal insults of windows. Most people will note if your beautiful and quiet rather than telling everybody that the other is ugly
post #6 of 116
I'm not too keen on all the negative advertisement. It seems very childish and will drive away some customers rather than attract them. Only the Mac faithful will enjoy the Vista bashing and that's not who they need to target.
post #7 of 116
Sooooo.. what they are saying is -

Reason 1 to get a Mac over a Windows Vista PC - Windows is expensive to upgrade, with a confusing amount of different versions. Macs are better and the new features in Vista have been in OS X for some time.

Reason 2 to get a Mac over a Windows Vista PC - Macs can run Windows Vista.


... Eh???
post #8 of 116
And what about speed? On my MBP vista runs way faster than OSX... and on my core solo mini with 512MB of RAM too... Now that the hardware platform is the same, Leopard MUST prove to be faster...
post #9 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

apple still does not have an mid-end desktop that is not a AIO what do you about the people that have a good display but can afford the mac pro and the mini is to weak for?

What do you tell them? Sell your display and get an iMac.
post #10 of 116
I think Apple has to be careful with the way it targets Vista in the stores because it can easily come off as a class-less Bush league kind of maneuvre.

Pointing out Vista's shortcomings vis-a-vis OSX is okay. Taking on an air of smugness only appeals to Apple true believers (who don't need any convincing) and can easily turn off potential switchers if the self-satisfied attitude is interepreted as "How could you be so stupid as to be using Windows all these years?" There's a fine line. A very fine line.
post #11 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by eggstone View Post

hate to see this, I think people in apple should focus more on Leopard, rather than just teasing Vista. Bring out Leopard, come on!

They have to set 'em up before they knock 'em down, like any good performance it's all about timing. Leopard will come, have patience. Once Leopard ships they wont be even looking at Vista, all focus will be on Leopard when the time comes. Who knows how focused they are being behind closed doors as of right now?
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post #12 of 116
It would be much more useful if they had a date for Leopard to woo customers with... I have a bad feeling the lack of announcements recently mean the delivery date has slipped.
post #13 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyKrz View Post

I'm not too keen on all the negative advertisement. It seems very childish and will drive away some customers rather than attract them. Only the Mac faithful will enjoy the Vista bashing and that's not who they need to target.

I kind if agree, yet I don't too. There's an old phrase in business; no news is bad news.
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post #14 of 116
Yeah Apple's gotta be careful. The last time they did this kind of thing was with Intel when they had the commercial with the close up of the snail going across the screen with the Intel processor on it's back. Though a funny ad it actually did more advertising for Intel then it did Mac's and was not effective to the mass.
post #15 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by googleplex View Post

It would be much more useful if they had a date for Leopard to woo customers with... I have a bad feeling the lack of announcements recently mean the delivery date has slipped.

One more post and you'll have 2007 covered.
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post #16 of 116
If you are a hardcore or even casual mac user, you know that Leopard is coming out some time in the spring. So right now you probably aren't in the market to buy a computer. This creates a dilemma for Apple. Since Mac users are sitting on the sideline waiting for leopard before they buy a Mac, Apple has to turn it's attention towards wooing PC users.

Many people coming into the Apple store are PC using iPod owners. Many of them are probably hearing about Vista and wondering if they should upgrade.

I was at an Apple store recently and ran into an old friend I hadn't seen in years. I was very surprised to see him with a new 15" MacBook Pro in his hand since he had always been a windows diehard. He explained to me that his PC died on him and that he was in the market for a new computer. He was planning on spending about $1000 on a new PC tower. He wasn't seriously considering a Mac but decided to visit the Apple store since he had heard good things about it. After experiencing the Apple Store he decide to get a $2000 MacBook Pro + AppleCare + ProCare.
post #17 of 116
I agree that bashing the other guy is a pretty petty way of getting some market share. But I have to admit, of all the Get A Mac ads, this newest one with the security stuff is the most amusing.

I'd rather see them tote Leopard as well. But I can see that if we've got a few months to go yet, they need to take the wind out of M$'s sails a little.
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post #18 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

What do you tell them? Sell your display and get an iMac.

Displays usually depreciate so rapidly that it's often not worth selling them, even when in pristine shape. I consider my electronic purchases to be sunk costs and just keep them unless there's no way I can reasonably use it.
post #19 of 116
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon
apple still does not have an mid-end desktop that is not a AIO what do you about the people that have a good display but can afford the mac pro and the mini is to weak for?

Unless you are in need of PCI cards, the "old way" of having a computer (i.e., separate screen, separate screen cable and power cable and possibly USB cable, and a wired mouse and keyboard attached to your computer restricting your movement, and not to mention that bit of difficulty placing your tower on the floor and bending over to plug things in or check the cables that may have come out or insert a DVD or CD or if you are windows, a "floppy" disc.) Go with the "clean" way. Integrated screen, cpu, dvd superdrive and massive hard drive storage.
Time to cast out the old thoughts. Not to mention, you still can attach that screen (please don't tell me it's a CRT) to the iMac. But with a 24" screen option, who would want to?
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post #20 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile View Post

Time to cast out the old thoughts. Not to mention, you still can attach that screen (please don't tell me it's a CRT) to the iMac. But with a 24" screen option, who would want to?

Why not? A dual 24" setup would be great. If I had the money, I'd jump for a second 30".
post #21 of 116
When your major competition commands 95% of the market you have to find ways of pulling customers in your direction. The average PC user who checks his/her email, does some word processing, etc. isn't going to know of the security benefits is OS X as opposed to Vista or XP so you have to inform and educate. I'm a systems admin and IT specialist within the government and 90% of my users don't know what the ctrl+alt+delete function is for yet when they ask me what computer they should look at buying, they're always sold when I tell them I've never had a virus or had to reformat my machine. And honestly, how many times have you heard someone b*tch and moan over how much they hate Windows or Microsoft for that matter? The only thing the Apple ads are doing in my mind are stimulating a preexisting condition or thought in a majority of PC users. Now all they have to do is come out and say "if you buy our computer there is a 99% chance you will never have to restore, reformat, defrag, secure, or generally f*ck around with it again".

With that said, I have to disagree with the claim that Apple should tout Leopard more and more. That doesn't mean they should keep it in the dark until June (what worked for iPhone probably won't work for Leopard from a new customer POV) but June is still 4 months away. That might as well be a decade in PC time. As a ADC member, I can say in my opinion that the Leopard beta is already more stable and more user-friendly than Vista and b. 9A343 only furthers that claim. However, like the previous thread explained, the loyal users are waiting on Leopard to release which means Apple has to market their products toward the newbies. Making fun of Microsoft and pointing out their flaws is one way to accomplish this.
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post #22 of 116
OK. I have a couple of problems here.

First, I don't think it is ever a good idea to taunt your competitors. It tends to make them look more sympathetic. You can compete with someone without taunting and Apple is beginning to go too far. And I would never have my employees wear t-shirts that have my competitor's product name on them.

Secondly, if Apple is targeting PC users to get them to switch right now instead of upgrading to Vista, is that such a good idea with Leopard coming out in a few months (hopefully no later than June)?

Think about it: I switch to Mac. Two months later you tell me that there's a newer version of OSX that I should buy. How is that helping the Mac brand?

Apple should be offering discounted Leopard coupons with the purchase of a new system. I'm not saying they should give it away, but maybe sell a new system owner a $75 coupon for a Leopard upgrade when it becomes available.

That would make a lot of current system owners jump into new Macs too. And that would also be good for Apple.
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post #23 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Why not? A dual 24" setup would be great. If I had the money, I'd jump for a second 30".

I'm fairly certain by then you've moved out of the mid-range computer market.
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post #24 of 116
@donebylee

Quote:
I have a couple of problems here. First, I don't think it is ever a good idea to taunt your competitors. It tends to make them look more sympathetic.

I think it will be a while before anyone harbors sympathy for Microsoft. Especially after they put the screws to the poor old Russian school principal (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/...ess/pirate.php). Besides, a little healthy competition never hurt anyone. I think the OS wars are more relevant now than ever, and no press is bad press, right? I would probably wait until Leopard comes out before launching a new campaign however.

Quote:
Apple should be offering discounted Leopard coupons with the purchase of a new system. I'm not saying they should give it away, but maybe sell a new system owner a $75 coupon for a Leopard upgrade when it becomes available.

This usually happens on new machine purchases within a reasonable amount of time before a new OS release.

but Most importantly!
http://www.vuckvista.com/
post #25 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

I think Apple has to be careful with the way it targets Vista in the stores because it can easily come off as a class-less Bush league kind of maneuvre.

Pointing out Vista's shortcomings vis-a-vis OSX is okay. Taking on an air of smugness only appeals to Apple true believers (who don't need any convincing) and can easily turn off potential switchers if the self-satisfied attitude is interepreted as "How could you be so stupid as to be using Windows all these years?" There's a fine line. A very fine line.

I whole heartedly-agree. As many people have said, there is a way to compete respectfully? It's a bit childish on Apple's part to mudsling when, clearly, the product alone should speak volumes. If they are as confident in their product as they are, then there is no need for taunting.
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post #26 of 116
Oh no! Could this beautiful relationship be over?!!



Whether you believe it or not, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are good friends. They both are the leaders of their generation. They have been competitors in the early days and now have embraced a better method of business. It is called co-opetition.

With this method they are able to compete but also share specific forms of technology, products and marketing practices.

Deal with it. Learn more about it. Enjoy it even. Realize this and you won't be debating Windows vs. Apple in a technology or marketing in a forum anymore.

/but when gates leaves and ballmer rises...whole other story
post #27 of 116
Please people, we're talking about Windows users here. Subtlety isn't their strong point.

Many of them view Gates as the greatest geek in the world, ignoring the fact that his last hands on experience with programming was over two decades ago. Notice how clueless he was about the arrival of the Internet and in his recent remarks about an 'attack a day' on Macs. If you want Windows users to grasp something, you've got to say it very clearly. Once they've switched, they'll start to understand better.
post #28 of 116
For all the people complaining about the new 'Security' Mac ad, have you actually SEEN it yet? Its really quite good and very funny. 8) :

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

I mean, I don't expect diehard Windows users to like it (or diehard Windows users posing as 'longtime Mac users'), but for everyone else, it is done deftly and humorously enough that I have no doubt the overall reaction will be positive.

Also, its silly to say that Apple shouldn't go after Microsoft, and that all comparisons are 'bashing'. They are COMPETITORS for god's sake, and its always refreshing to see someone not be afraid to go up to the plate against MS, who has a near-monopoly on the desktop.

Oh and as far as Apple being 'too aggressive'... have you caught some of the ads Oracle and SAP run against each other? Or what about the catfights Sun and Microsoft used to get into?

This is definitely PG-rated compared to any of that. So go Apple.

.
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post #29 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Hes the richest geek in the world in fact the richest period. Leopard will not convert anyone, like everything else before as users move to new systems they will move to either Leopard or Vista as they did with OsX and Xp.

A year from now MS will still own 94% of the OS world as they always have. The only users excited about Leopard are current Mac users most PC users have no clue what Leopard is or is going to be, yet the entire world good or bad knows Vista.

Yeah, Leopard won't convert anyone... oh wait, hasn't Mac marketshare been trending pretty strongly UP over the past year or two? So Tiger can convert folks, but Leopard can't? Or should we chalk it up 110% to the 'iPod Halo effect', nevermind that Apple generally had the better OS during that time?

Hey, I have no doubt that a year from now, MS will still own most of the desktop OS market. But Apple is making inroads, and I have no doubt that will continue, as well. 8)

.
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post #30 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Oh no! Could this beautiful relationship be over?!!



Whether you believe it or not, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are good friends. They both are the leaders of their generation. They have been competitors in the early days and now have embraced a better method of business. It is called co-opetition.

With this method they are able to compete but also share specific forms of technology, products and marketing practices.

Deal with it. Learn more about it. Enjoy it even. Realize this and you won't be debating Windows vs. Apple in a technology or marketing in a forum anymore.

/but when gates leaves and ballmer rises...whole other story

Who do you think your kidding? Nice PHOTOCHOP job!
post #31 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile View Post

Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon
apple still does not have an mid-end desktop that is not a AIO what do you about the people that have a good display but can afford the mac pro and the mini is to weak for?

Unless you are in need of PCI cards, the "old way" of having a computer (i.e., separate screen, separate screen cable and power cable and possibly USB cable, and a wired mouse and keyboard attached to your computer restricting your movement, and not to mention that bit of difficulty placing your tower on the floor and bending over to plug things in or check the cables that may have come out or insert a DVD or CD or if you are windows, a "floppy" disc.) Go with the "clean" way. Integrated screen, cpu, dvd superdrive and massive hard drive storage.
Time to cast out the old thoughts. Not to mention, you still can attach that screen (please don't tell me it's a CRT) to the iMac. But with a 24" screen option, who would want to?

I want a desktop and I don't the idea of be forced to buy a bigger screen, more cpu, and so just to be ABLE to PAY MORE for a better video card also I want a desktop to have DESKTOP PARTS not laptop ones. I can build a system with better parts for the same price.

Apple needs to come with 10.5 for all pcs.
post #32 of 116

Steve: Ahh, so you think your pretty tough Huh?
Bill: Your Tiger style is no match for my crazy crane style! HA HA HA!
Steve: Maybe not, but you haven't tasted the wrath of my new crouching Leopard style.
post #33 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its been trending upwards because of the switch to intel, has nothing to do with the OS,

There are many, many people who disagree with you on that. Most folks cite some combination of OS, Intel switch, iPod Halo effect, and a growing realization that Apple makes good comps. I think attributing it all to just one factor is a bit overly simplistic.

Quote:
however I do agree that it should because I have always said that Apple hardware means very little their true strength is their OS. Now that the intel hype is over the upward trend will end.

We'll see, won't we?

Quote:
The point I was trying to make in my first post was, how can you go into battle against Vista when Apple is unwilling to truly promote their new product because they are paranoid about leaks. Its stupid. If your going to go into battle then don't just bash the competition actually present something.

Uh... they can present the OS that Vista pretty much copies all-around... Tiger. \ In any case, if Apple did promote Leopard right now, folks would then be crying that Apple was comparing their 'vaporware' to MS's shipping OS.

Far as Leopard goes, don't worry, I'm sure you'll be hearing all about it soon enough, aka by summer.


Quote:
I know too much logic and reason behind that.

Well, logic and reason of a kind, I guess. But we can agree to disagree. 8)

.
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post #34 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekker View Post

they should do a get a mac add where the PC guy keeps repeating every thing that the mac does and says

... ending with whatever killer app Steve Jobs says is coming in Leopard and silence as PC stands there with his mouth open.
post #35 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

I want a desktop and I don't the idea of be forced to buy a bigger screen, more cpu, and so just to be ABLE to PAY MORE for a better video card also I want a desktop to have DESKTOP PARTS not laptop ones.

Fair enough, I suppose.

Quote:
I can build a system with better parts for the same price.

Does your math assume that your own time to chose parts, assemble parts and install software is free and that the software you put on it is free?
post #36 of 116
I agree with those who say that an OS isn't going to convert anyone. I don't think the average PC user is going to switch to a Mac because someone, or some commecercial, says that a Mac is better.

However, if an OS is truly horrible, or difficult to use, it will cause people to switch. From what I'm reading, unless you buy a new PC with Vista already installed, updating to Vista is very difficult and frustrating and that might well cause some people to look around for another solution.
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post #37 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Fair enough, I suppose.



Does your math assume that your own time to chose parts, assemble parts and install software is free and that the software you put on it is free?

Could be if you run Linux, but then you usually need someway of downloading and saving/buring the ISO first.

Picking out HW isn't that hard, pick either AMD or Intel CPU, a board, video card, case, monitor, KB/mouse. It all depends on your budget more than anything, if you really wanted to, you can run a C2D system using AGP and DDR ram. You can build a kick-ass PC for less than $1000, I run Vista on a AMD A64 cpu and board that only cost $105, the other parts I already had, which might come out to another $500-600.

A couple hours to pick out parts and 2-3 to assemble and setup if you're knowledgeable. If Apple came out with a good mid-tower, I think you might see more mid-level/high-end PC users switch. I'm using an Intel Imac on campus right now, and I want nothing to do with one, but I would really consider a mid-tower for $1200-1500. All-in-one's are fine for my mom, but a Mac Pro is way beyond my budget.
post #38 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

... If Apple came out with a good mid-tower, I think you might see more mid-level/high-end PC users switch. I'm using an Intel Imac on campus right now, and I want nothing to do with one, but I would really consider a mid-tower for $1200-1500. All-in-one's are fine for my mom, but a Mac Pro is way beyond my budget.

Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squadâ„¢, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.

For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.

I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?

.
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post #39 of 116
I don't like vista attacks because it will only make hardcore win users hate apple more. Already they don't buy apple stuff exept for ipods and now that apple and MS are doing battle again and the zune exsists they're loosing ipod sales to people that would rather use something more klunky just to make a point.

I believe that you don't get people by alienating them. While I like the apple ads I think they should also have ads that actually show people wtf the software looks like.
People know "the mac guy" and "the pc guy" but do they know what OSX even looks like? No. Most people I know haven't used a mac since we used OS7 or 8 or something in elementary school and have nothing but bad memories about macs.

This is what I get in lectures from the hot girls I sit next to:
"Is that a mac?"
"Yeah"
"Oh I don't like those, they're hard to use"
"No it's not, it's easier if anything"
"Well I hated them in elementary school"
"It's different now"
*presses F9
"Omg that's cool!"
Then I spend the rest of the time just getting to know her and making her interested in macs.
This has happened 4 times this year, no lie.

That's retarded I shouldn't be picking up girls with computers, they should already know that the damn thing looks like.
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post #40 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Careful. You're about to be gang-tackled by the Apple Apologista Squad, who insist that $2500 is a reasonable minimum entry-fee for an expandable Mac desktop.

For myself, I completely agree with you on this. Even if a lot of folks don't use expandability, a lot of them LIKE the IDEA of being able to expand their box/swap cards if need be, and will buy based in part on it. And Apple, if it were smart on this, would be just as happy to sell to folks who never actually use their expandibility but buy based on it, as it does to the folks who actually use/need expandability.

I mean, what kind of company goes, "Nah, you don't really need that. I know what's best for you"... and expects to be as successful as possible with that approach?

.

100% agree.
I almost got my cousin as a switcher but he wants to be able to upgrade his vid card over the years for games. I can't even blame him for that. The crappy emachines I used to use that I donated to him can play any modern game because of it's "last gen" apg slot (there are still a few good apg cards kicking around). This computer is 4-5 years old.

While apple systems may be able to have a useable computer OS wise(at least the PPCs were), they're essentially useless game wise.

I can't even blame him, he's not hardcore or anything, if he was he'd build his own, but he likes to play pc games, which in 2-3 yrs an imac most likely won't be able to do.

He's gonna be in the market to buy a pc (he wants a desktop he said) in the fall, I'm hoping apple delivers before then.

He doesn't even like microsoft, his allegiance is to games and expandability. He'd rather put up with hating windows and have expandability then have a mac and be out in the cold.
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