or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Does the OS X Developer Community Suck?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Does the OS X Developer Community Suck?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
One thing I don't understand. There are many places where OS X just has problems most notably legacy support and drivers. When I'm saying this two bigs things come into my mind ATI Rage IIc and Pro drivers and Soundblaster drivers.

Even BeOS has drivers for those simply because somebody wrote them. and that's how they get most of their drivers.

OS X is suppose to be open source but I haven't seen many advances in that area or developers taking some time to write support for nonsupported things. Why is this?
post #2 of 22
Agreed. Third-party driver support is downright pathetic in some areas. WTF? Anyone here got some insight into this problem?
post #3 of 22
A downturn in the economy and newness of X.

Too much development for too little gain.

~Kuku
post #4 of 22
Last time I checked .. Apple wasn't responsible for 3rd party drivers.

What would be better is to email the 3rd party and file a complaint.
The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
the paper clip of the overlying memo and go to file.
Reply
The crucial memorandum will be snared in the out-basket by
the paper clip of the overlying memo and go to file.
Reply
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Sinewave:
<strong>Last time I checked .. Apple wasn't responsible for 3rd party drivers.

What would be better is to email the 3rd party and file a complaint.</strong><hr></blockquote>

1.) so much for Apple's claim of plug and play
2.) I never said they were. My original point if you would read is that why doesn't Mac OS X have the same kind of developer support as Linux or BeOS where people fed up with waiting for drivers take it upon themselves with the community and write drivers to fill in the problem areas.
post #6 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
1.) so much for Apple's claim of plug and play
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, sure as hell, Apple can't provide a driver for *everything*. I guess anyone (well, maybe almost anyone) would agree that focusing their resources on other, more important areas (optimization, debugging of OS X in general) is not a bad idea at this point.


[quote]<strong>
2.) I never said they were. My original point if you would read is that why doesn't Mac OS X have the same kind of developer support as Linux or BeOS where people fed up with waiting for drivers take it upon themselves with the community and write drivers to fill in the problem areas.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I guess Linux has a lot more geek-appeal than OS X does, so more people will spend time writing drivers for it.

As for BeOS, I didn't really see a lot of really usable or even half-feature-complete drivers out there last I checked (shortly after BeOS 5 PE was released). Do you have any specific ones in mind?

Bye,
RazzFazz
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
[quote]Well, sure as hell, Apple can't provide a driver for *everything*. I guess anyone (well, maybe almost anyone) would agree that focusing their resources on other, more important areas (optimization, debugging of OS X in general) is not a bad idea at this point.<hr></blockquote>

of course not. but how about generic drivers for gamepads and USB printers?

[quote]
As for BeOS, I didn't really see a lot of really usable or even half-feature-complete drivers out there last I checked (shortly after BeOS 5 PE was released). Do you have any specific ones in mind?<hr></blockquote>

most notably soundblaster but there are a ton more.
post #8 of 22
Seems like Apple's support for third party products like Zip drives, and the supported cameras in Image Capture mostly depends on how standardized the driver data is. That is, these supported devices tend to follow some sort of common interface for generic drivers to plug into.
But also iTunes supports third party CD-R Drives. Perhaps the iTunes team does this independently of say, the Print Center team? Not sure about that.
post #9 of 22
post #10 of 22
Hey,applenut,if you're complaining,why don't you write some drivers.
post #11 of 22
Get a clue Applenut.

If there's a third party device driver that's missing, the complaint belongs with the 3rd party, not the developer community as a whole, Apple, or anyone else. Also, how long have Linux and BeOS been around...and how long has OS X (in a relatively polished form) been around?

Three months. Do the math before you post your baseless complaints.

Next topic.....

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #12 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
of course not. but how about generic drivers for gamepads and USB printers?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't know about gamepads, but at least for printers this is impossible, because there is no generic USB printer interface used by all printer manufacturers. Instead, everybody seems to have his own unique, non-uniform, non-standard way of having their drivers talk to their devices.


[quote]<strong>
most notably soundblaster but there are a ton more.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm, I don't remember getting anything more than digital audio to work on my SB AWE32 under R5 PE (i.e. no wavetable, no FM synth). Never had a SB Live, so I can't comment on that one (are SoundFonts actually working under BeOS?)

Bye,
RazzFazz
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>Hey,applenut,if you're complaining,why don't you write some drivers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

missed the point.

as usual

[quote]Get a clue Applenut. <hr></blockquote>

that a way to be, jackass

[quote]
If there's a third party device driver that's missing, the complaint belongs with the 3rd party, not the developer community as a whole, Apple, or anyone else. Also, how long have Linux and BeOS been around...and how long has OS X (in a relatively polished form) been around? <hr></blockquote>

perhaps you're too dense to comprehend. I'm talking about things third parties have refused to support. things that just will theoretically never be supported in OS X. Other OSes have many of those areas filled in a little by the developer community. even if the software/drivers don't work they try their best. The Mac doesn't have that kind of community and I was asking why? too involved for you? and I also asked why many externel advancements weren't being made on Darwin.

[quote]
Three months. Do the math before you post your baseless complaints.

Next topic.....

<hr></blockquote>

take it slow... don't wanna hurt yourself... you may learn something.. maybe
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
[quote]Don't know about gamepads, but at least for printers this is impossible, because there is no generic USB printer interface used by all printer manufacturers. Instead, everybody seems to have his own unique, non-uniform, non-standard way of having their drivers talk to their devices.<hr></blockquote>

not true. Epson has a generic driver reference as does HP. That's how Be supports so many epsons and HPs. the drivers are no where near full featured but they are able to print text and in some cases color. Anything like that would be a step up for many people in OS X.

and it also doesn't make sense with some of the unsupported printers because if you change some names in the drivers of epson and hp you can get unsupported printers to work.
post #15 of 22
[quote]

The Mac doesn't have that kind of community and I was asking why? too involved for you?

<hr></blockquote>

Actually the Mac OSX developer community is one of the most generous around,and the programmers are among the most brilliant.You should do some research before you start insulting people.
post #16 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
not true. Epson has a generic driver reference as does HP. That's how Be supports so many epsons and HPs. the drivers are no where near full featured but they are able to print text and in some cases color. Anything like that would be a step up for many people in OS X.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I kinda doubt that. People want real drivers, being able to print some b&w-text on their colour printer won't help them much (well, at least I guess so).
Besides, both Epson and HP might each have sort of a generic driver interface for *their* product range, but both are completely different (i.e. both would need completely different drivers).


[quote]<strong>
And if the printer manufacturers don't plan to make OS X drivers available,
and it also doesn't make sense with some of the unsupported printers because if you change some names in the drivers of epson and hp you can get unsupported printers to work.</strong><hr></blockquote>

As pointed out before, it is not Apple's responsibility to get those drivers out, but Epson's and HP's. If they decide not to, well, then their consumers are SOL (unfortunately, I'm one of them too, by the way).

Bye,
RazzFazz
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>

Actually the Mac OSX developer community is one of the most generous around,and the programmers are among the most brilliant.You should do some research before you start insulting people.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I started insulting people!? lol. amazing how people read what they want.

how about you show some examples? with the exception of omnigroup I don't see any developers single or big name really being "generous" as you put it.

[quote]I kinda doubt that. People want real drivers, being able to print some b&w-text on their colour printer won't help them much (well, at least I guess so).
Besides, both Epson and HP might each have sort of a generic driver interface for *their* product range, but both are completely different (i.e. both would need completely different drivers).<hr></blockquote>

Apple has generic drivers for other things that aren't full featured. people like those.

if my epson photo 750 just printed text out of OS X it wouldn't go to waste.

Apple could also provide some samle code for things like soundcards, printers, scanners, and let others work on it. they do this a bit but I haven't see much come from it. why?
post #18 of 22
[quote]

I started insulting people!? lol. amazing how people read what they want.

how about you show some examples? with the exception of omnigroup I don't see any developers single or big name really being "generous" as you put it.


<hr></blockquote>


Uh...saying that people suck is generally considered an insult.As far as developers being generous-there are a lot of free code samples and little apps available,but mostly what I am talking about is people who are generous with their time in offering help on programming mailing lists,such as macosx-dev@omnigroup.com.
post #19 of 22
Applenut Said:

"perhaps you're too dense to comprehend."

Oh yes, this is serious grey matter. Not sure I can get my cranial region around it sufficiently.


"I'm talking about things third parties have refused to support. things that just will theoretically never be supported in OS X.

How about some concrete examples? Maybe give us some idea of of when a peripheral manufacturer or software developer has come out and said "we will not support OS X, now or in the future. Theorhetical = pulled out of your ass."

"Other OSes have many of those areas filled in a little by the developer community. even if the software/drivers don't work they try their best. The Mac doesn't have that kind of community and I was asking why?"

For someone with such tremendous cranial capacity, I'm surprised you haven't figured this one out yet. Does the phrase "three months" ring any bells? The API's for OS X are just now reaching a relatively polished state, and the OS itself as well. Witness 10.1 and the Dec Developer Tools, which filled in A LOT of holes with bug fixes, API documentation and such - things those developer types need, I'm sure you'll agree.

There are many examples of developers who have basically been wiating since March for the OS and the APIs to mature a bit (Adobe, Macromedia, Epson, AGFA and Kensington all come immediately to mind). Get it now?

"too involved for you?"

Oh clearly. Really involved. I'm breaking out in a cold sweat. How about you...any of this starting to make sense now?


YES, there is a developer community out there that --in time-- will be able to provide unofficial hacks and such to fill in where official drivers aren't there. But just like the official developer types, the hackers need a good set of API's and documentation to work from, and a stable OS as well. We've had both for a sum total of about two weeks now, since the Dec Developer Tools plugged a lot of holes in the documentation - upwards of 700 holes.

Like I said. Next topic. This one is pointless.
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #20 of 22
Exactly.
post #21 of 22
Have you used Fink (open source) on OS X? There are TONS of GNU/Open Source tools/apps available for OS X now. Fink is a simple way to get those tools and compile them specifically for your machine. I'd say that for the short amount of time OS X has been out, developer support has been pretty good, at least on the open source side.

-Moaza
post #22 of 22
Again,exactly,GRASS is available for OSX on CD for only $30,if it was a commercial app it would cost around $10,000.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Does the OS X Developer Community Suck?