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It's official: Rogers to bring iPhone to Canada later this year - Page 3

post #81 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Rogers has decent coverage in south central Ontario, but that's pretty much it. In most of the country, if you are not right in the metro area of a major centre, you get no signal whatsoever with Rogers. A five minute drive outside of Winnipeg, and you've got nothing. Driving through Saskatchewan, nothing. Large parts of Alberta, nothing.Virtually all of BC, nothing.

I found this out the hard way in October. Our CDMA phones had 4 bars, the GSM phones had no signal, almost everywhere between Winnipeg and Smithers, BC.

I travel frequently across Canada cost to cost and found the coverage far better on Rogers network than when I was with Telus and Bell. The reality is that each carrier may have coverage in an area remote that another carrier does not. Example when I travel from Vancouver to Calgary I have great coverage even along HWY 5. I recall stopping to assist at 4 car accidents during heavy snowfall through the Rockies last winter where people were surprised to see that I had reception on my Rogers phone but they didn't on their Telus and Bell cellphones. Also keep in mind it's not just the network that's an issue with reception but also the phone itself. Traveling with others on the East coast I noticed that friends/family using Nokia and Samsung phones had some crappy reception issues but I didn't when I used a Sony Ericsson W810 and later with a Blackberry 8100 Pearl. Since buying an iPhone and unlocking it to use on Rogers network I've noticed this smartphone far surpases any of the previous cellphones I've used on any carrier. It also worked beautifully in the USA while on both AT&T network and T-Mobile Network. This proves that not all cellphone are alike and that each manufacturer tests their hardware differently. I know it can be frustrating to lose coverage when you need it but like I said the reality is none of the carriers provide 100% coverage across the entire country.
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post #82 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine Engine View Post

I travel frequently across Canada cost to cost and found the coverage far better on Rogers network than when I was with Telus and Bell. The reality is that each carrier may have coverage in an area remote that another carrier does not. Example when I travel from Vancouver to Calgary I have great coverage even along HWY 5. I recall stopping to assist at 4 car accidents during heavy snowfall through the Rockies last winter where people were surprised to see that I had reception on my Rogers phone but they didn't on their Telus and Bell cellphones. Also keep in mind it's not just the network that's an issue with reception but also the phone itself. Traveling with others on the East coast I noticed that friends/family using Nokia and Samsung phones had some crappy reception issues but I didn't when I used a Sony Ericsson W810 and later with a Blackberry 8100 Pearl. Since buying an iPhone and unlocking it to use on Rogers network I've noticed this smartphone far surpases any of the previous cellphones I've used on any carrier. It also worked beautifully in the USA while on both AT&T network and T-Mobile Network. This proves that not all cellphone are alike and that each manufacturer tests their hardware differently. I know it can be frustrating to lose coverage when you need it but like I said the reality is none of the carriers provide 100% coverage across the entire country.

Sorry about that. For what ever reason the forum gives me an error trying to edit my post. In the first sentence it was supposed to say "coast to coast" not "cost to cost"...lol.
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post #83 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Rogers has decent coverage in south central Ontario, but that's pretty much it. In most of the country, if you are not right in the metro area of a major centre, you get no signal whatsoever with Rogers. A five minute drive outside of Winnipeg, and you've got nothing. Driving through Saskatchewan, nothing. Large parts of Alberta, nothing.Virtually all of BC, nothing.

I found this out the hard way in October. Our CDMA phones had 4 bars, the GSM phones had no signal, almost everywhere between Winnipeg and Smithers, BC.

I'm not sure what kind of phone you are using but I have never experienced these problems. I live in Winnipeg and my summer job takes me all over Manitoba and I almost never loose service on my rogers GSM phone. Also I play hockey in BC all winter and have service almost everywhere except for trips up north through the mountains. Also, on the drive from Manitoba to BC I have service the whole way. Were you experiencing these problems on an iPhone? If so I might have to rethink buying one.
post #84 of 108
I've had my iPhone since August 2007, and it has worked flawlessly with Rogers since I got it, and yes, I live in Canada!

I don't understand the big deal. The easiest way for a Canadian to get an iPhone right now is to get one from the states, either by walking across the border, paying THE SAME PRICE everyone else pays, walk across the border, unlock your phone, and you are good to go. There is nothing hard about it at all. If you think so you are misinformed. The other way would be to order one off of eBay...

WHAT IS INTERESTING: I was talking to Rogers about changing my plan, and they told me that my "Communicate" messaging package (with the txt messaging, voicemail, and Internet access) was changing to UNLIMITED DATA. This was in early April.


@ bsenka & gongshowhky:
I also live in Winnipeg, MB, Canada.
I have never had a problem with my iPhone. Reception, roaming, txt, internet, maps, mail, etc etc... not one problem. I had an original 8GB model, then upgraded to a 16GB model in February. NO PROBLEMS!!!!
post #85 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Better for what? I'm on Telus, and my current plan is $20/mo. (That's Super Talk 10, plus Spark 10)

What you claim is highly disingenuous. First of all, with Super Talk 10, you have a grandfathered rate plan. The closest current rate plan on Telus to that which Daphoid and I have quoted is "Talk a Lot 40" plus "Spark 10", which costs $50 per month for the airtime. Secondly, Daphoid and I both quoted our monthly bill, including system access fee and taxes. If you take the $50 per month and add the system access fee, 911, and taxes, you'll get about $65 per month, again, not too different from plans on Bell and Rogers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I was hoping Apple would come to their senses and offer a CDMA version. GSM is only available in very limited areas in Canada, CDMA covers the whole country. If you do any traveling within Canada, a GSM phone is pretty much useless. Could you imagine how stupid is would seem if Apple decided that all Macs only worked with Cable modems for internet access? Some might argue that cable is better than DSL, but that doesn't change the fact lots of places don't have access to it.

"Come to their senses?" Not likely. There is no reason for them to release a CDMA iPhone because GSM is the world standard.

Also, you seem to be the only one here that has any problem with Rogers' coverage. I have no more complaints about Rogers than anyone else I know has for Bell or Telus. I suspect you're guilty of confirmation bias.
post #86 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

"Come to their senses?" Not likely. There is no reason for them to release a CDMA iPhone because GSM is the world standard.

Huh? GSM is definitely more popular worldwide, but the CDMA market is far from insignificant. It's 430 million people. It's over 50 percent of the US market too (yes, GSM is #2 in the US).

There would be absolutely nothing wrong with Apple releasing a CDMA version. Motorola did it with the RAZR, and judging from the fact that they've continue to do so for a couple of years now, they don't seem to have regretted it much.

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post #87 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

What you claim is highly disingenuous. First of all, with Super Talk 10, you have a grandfathered rate plan. The closest current rate plan on Telus to that which Daphoid and I have quoted is "Talk a Lot 40" plus "Spark 10", which costs $50 per month for the airtime. Secondly, Daphoid and I both quoted our monthly bill, including system access fee and taxes. If you take the $50 per month and add the system access fee, 911, and taxes, you'll get about $65 per month, again, not too different from plans on Bell and Rogers.

Supertalk 10 is a current plan, not grandfathered. I just signed up for it last month.
http://www.telusmobility.com/mb/plan...k_mb_all.shtml
post #88 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Propofol View Post

How easy is it for a company like Telus to switch from CDMA to GSM? Don't they have to install all new hardware everywhere in their coverage area to carry the signal? It's not like it's a software upgrade is it?

Its not easy and is certainly isn't cheap. On the other hand GSM gives them access to the larger market of roaming customers. Also, if there were any plans to do any major overhauls of the network, then the real cost is actually less. There is also a possibility that they might gor straighto to 4G GSM, but only time will tell.
post #89 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

That is, I am afraid, a silly comparison. Whether it's cable or DSL, what Apple designs is one ethernet port that works with both. (Granted, they used to have the dial-up port as well, but that's now gone).

GSM versus CDMA are fundamentally different standards.

That said, it does seem like there are now these dual phones starting to appear in the market: see, e.g., http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/0...vity-long-wal/

But it still seems to be a long way off.....

Dual solution phones are more of a gimmick than a real solution. They cost more to develop and suffer from too many comprises. GSM is a technology umbrella, whereas depending on context CDMA is either an encoding type or Qualcomm CDMA. GSM 3G includes the CDMA encoding, but does not support Qualcomm CDMA.

On a global perspective GSM makes much more sense, especially to roaming customers. In the USA CDMA makes a lot of sense, but compared to the potential market internationally of GSM makes very little sense.

BTW If you are interested in seeing what GSM covers, geographically, see: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml
post #90 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Ouragan! Right on! Great explanation.

Just one slight correction. Change FCC to CRTC, or indicate the difference between the US and Canada governing bodies.


I bought a phone back in 1981 and plugged it in Bell Canada's equipment. According to the 1978 ruling of the Competition Bureau, you could use in Canada any phone that complied with the requirements of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission to be used with land lines anywhere in the U.S.A. FCC approval was evidenced by a sticker placed under each phone.

The Canadian decision was to extend to Canada the use of FCC approved phones. Bell Canada didn't like it, but didn't have a choice.

Apple doesn't like it when iPhone customers choose their own cell phone service, but there is nothing that Apple can do about it. And the Competition Bureau doesn't like MONOPOLISTIC behaviour. Do you hear that, Apple?

post #91 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Supertalk 10 is a current plan, not grandfathered. I just signed up for it last month.
http://www.telusmobility.com/mb/plan...k_mb_all.shtml

My mistake. That rate plan is not offered in BC, so I didn't find it when I searched Telus' site.
post #92 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Huh? GSM is definitely more popular worldwide, but the CDMA market is far from insignificant. It's 430 million people. It's over 50 percent of the US market too (yes, GSM is #2 in the US).

There would be absolutely nothing wrong with Apple releasing a CDMA version. Motorola did it with the RAZR, and judging from the fact that they've continue to do so for a couple of years now, they don't seem to have regretted it much.

.

The US is Apple's largest market for now, and Apple has an exclusive deal with AT&T. Tell me again why Apple would waste time and money at this point developing a CDMA iPhone?

I'm not saying that it won't come eventually, but given the way that Apple has chosen to bring the iPhone to market, I don't think that it's reasonable to expect a CDMA iPhone until the exclusivity deals start running out.
post #93 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Huh? GSM is definitely more popular worldwide, but the CDMA market is far from insignificant. It's 430 million people. It's over 50 percent of the US market too (yes, GSM is #2 in the US).

There would be absolutely nothing wrong with Apple releasing a CDMA version. Motorola did it with the RAZR, and judging from the fact that they've continue to do so for a couple of years now, they don't seem to have regretted it much. .

Based on the attached article, there is good evidence why not bring out a CDMA version.

As for Motorola, they have a lot to regret. And the RAZR is not not one of them.
post #94 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post

I don't understand the big deal. The easiest way for a Canadian to get an iPhone right now is to get one from the states, either by walking across the border, paying THE SAME PRICE everyone else pays, walk across the border, unlock your phone, and you are good to go. There is nothing hard about it at all. If you think so you are misinformed. The other way would be to order one off of eBay...

WHAT IS INTERESTING: I was talking to Rogers about changing my plan, and they told me that my "Communicate" messaging package (with the txt messaging, voicemail, and Internet access) was changing to UNLIMITED DATA. This was in early April.
@ bsenka & gongshowhky:

Being able to walk into an Apple store in Canada or a Rogers authorized dealer to buy an iPhone provides both convenience for the consumer as well support from Apple on the hardware/software and Rogers on troubleshooting the device if issues arise. Currently Apple has stated if a person unlocks their iPhone with out permission from Apple then that person has voided their Apple warranty. Also if you were to call Rogers Data support line they wouldn't be able to help you as they are instructed to not troubleshoot hardware not sold through Rogers authorized dealers. This makes sense since they don't have any instruction material from the manufacturer on the device.

As for the $20.00 Communicate Value Pack you mentioned it's clearly stated on Rogers website and Customer Care is aware that this package is not authorized on data devices. It's not unlimited all inclusive data but actually unlimited mobile WAP internet browsing which doesn't cover email or streaming data when using stocks or the weather applications on an iPhone. Most likely you didn't notify the Customer Care rep that you were using a data device and not a regular cellphone. So when one day if you get an $85,000.00 data bill like a Bell customer once got when they added the incorrect data plan then you're going to have a long conversation pleading with Data Customer Care to resolve your issue. Keep in mind Apple has set the Voice & Data plans specific for the iPhone with other carriers so the same will most likely happen with the iPhone. If that's the case and you really want one through Rogers you're most likely going to have to have an "iPhone Plan" and not your current plan. The reason for this is Apple is getting a share of those profits on the plan. Also the cost of the iPhone isn't subsidized by the carrier since Apple again has set the pricing based on manufacturing costs and no matter how much someone begs Customer Care to have a cheaper price we'll have to buy at the price Apple sets.

FYI: From the Rogers website $20.00 Communicate Value Pack:

"Plan includes unlimited on-device mobile browsing only. Plan is available on select phones only (PDAs such as Blackberry or Windows Mobile devices, PC cards and non-Rogers certified devices are not eligible). Data usage incurred on ineligible devices, incurred while tethering (using device as wireless modem for laptop) or incurred using non-Rogers (3rd party) applications downloaded to your device will be subject to pay-per-use charges of 5 cents/KB."
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post #95 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

The US is Apple's largest market for now, and Apple has an exclusive deal with AT&T. Tell me again why Apple would waste time and money at this point developing a CDMA iPhone?


Because Korea, a major market Apple is no doubt interested in launching in, is largely CDMA. And because Apple's exclusivity deal with ATT may have only a year and change left on it, and after it's done, Apple would love to be on the big US CDMA carriers (Verizon, Sprint, Alltel) as well.

It's hardly a waste of time and money if you make more money off of a CDMA version than you put into developing one. Which Apple would, no doubt.

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post #96 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

And because Apple's exclusivity deal with ATT may have only a year and change left on it

How certain is that? I don't recall it being any firmer than idle speculation.
post #97 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How certain is that? I don't recall it being any firmer than idle speculation.

When the iPhone came out or was announced, I thought Jobs said they had a 5 year exclusivity contract with ATT. However, it could be that ATT's exclusivity contract may be for distribution (US) only and not necessarily as the exclusive contact...if that distinction can be made.

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post #98 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How certain is that? I don't recall it being any firmer than idle speculation.


A lot of the more recent news coverage has been stating that the Apple-ATT deal is a "two year exclusive". And we're already 10 months in.

Quite a shift from the early coverage, which was saying 5-year exclusive. What do the ppl covering Apple know now that they didn't know then? You'd have to ask them. Apple and ATT have been careful not to spell out the details of their deal directly.



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post #99 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

When the iPhone came out or was announced, I thought Jobs said they had a 5 year exclusivity contract with ATT. However, it could be that ATT's exclusivity contract may be for distribution (US) only and not necessarily as the exclusive carrier...if that distinction can be made.

Since edit isn't working, I replied to correct.

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post #100 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

My mistake. That rate plan is not offered in BC, so I didn't find it when I searched Telus' site.

No worries, not the first time someone did not believe me about my rate.

BTW, you can get that plan anywhere in Canada if you know to ask for it. I know plenty of people who have. They just don't advertise it outside of Manitoba for some reason.

It's also worth mentioning that even if it was grandfathered, you still can't dismiss it. Telus always lets you keep the plan you are on, even if they cancel it for new subscribers. I also know plenty of Rogers customers who have had their plan changed on them in mid contract by Rogers without notice. The only explanation they got was, "sorry, that rate is no longer available".
post #101 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Because Korea, a major market Apple is no doubt interested in launching in, is largely CDMA.

<skeptical>I didn't know that Korea was a major market for Apple.</skeptical>

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

And because Apple's exclusivity deal with ATT may have only a year and change left on it, and after it's done, Apple would love to be on the big US CDMA carriers (Verizon, Sprint, Alltel) as well.

It's hardly a waste of time and money if you make more money off of a CDMA version than you put into developing one. Which Apple would, no doubt.

.

so we agree:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

The US is Apple's largest market for now, and Apple has an exclusive deal with AT&T. Tell me again why Apple would waste time and money at this point developing a CDMA iPhone?

I'm not saying that it won't come eventually, but given the way that Apple has chosen to bring the iPhone to market, I don't think that it's reasonable to expect a CDMA iPhone until the exclusivity deals start running out.

I was responding to the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I was hoping Apple would come to their senses and offer a CDMA version.

I just don't think that's reasonable.
post #102 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

It's also worth mentioning that even if it was grandfathered, you still can't dismiss it. Telus always lets you keep the plan you are on, even if they cancel it for new subscribers. I also know plenty of Rogers customers who have had their plan changed on them in mid contract by Rogers without notice. The only explanation they got was, "sorry, that rate is no longer available".

I do think that it's worth dismissing. The point of the argument is about what new customers have available to them, not what you have available. If you tell someone that they should be with Telus because you're paying $10 for airtime and it turns out that they can't access that plan, then why did you bother?

But, as you say (and I'll take your word for it), your rate plan can be accessed outside of Manitoba, so the above is moot. However, offering the plan nationally may be a regulatory requirement. As they are not advertising this plan elsewhere, you can bet that they don't want anyone outside Manitoba to sign up for it.
post #103 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

I do think that it's worth dismissing. The point of the argument is about what new customers have available to them, not what you have available. If you tell someone that they should be with Telus because you're paying $10 for airtime and it turns out that they can't access that plan, then why did you bother?

But, as you say (and I'll take your word for it), your rate plan can be accessed outside of Manitoba, so the above is moot. However, offering the plan nationally may be a regulatory requirement. As they are not advertising this plan elsewhere, you can bet that they don't want anyone outside Manitoba to sign up for it.

They DO let people outside of Manitoba sign up for it, I know people that have. Even if it's "not offered" anymore, if you know enough to ask, you still usually get that rate with Telus, even with new customers.
post #104 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

<skeptical>I didn't know that Korea was a major market for Apple.</skeptical>

Don't know why you'd be skeptical... along with Japan and China, Korea is one of the 'Big Three' East Asian markets. And along with Japan, the most advanced cellphone market in the world.



Quote:
so we agree

Yep. I was just responding to when you said:

Quote:
Tell me again why Apple would waste time and money at this point developing a CDMA iPhone?


Now you know why it wouldn't be a waste.


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post #105 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

Tell me again why Apple would waste time and money at this point developing a CDMA iPhone?

As he's stated many times before, there are currently 430 million potential reasons why Apple would want to create a CDMA version.
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post #106 of 108
Well said.


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post #107 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

There is no reason for them to release a CDMA iPhone because GSM is the world standard.

The answer to whether it would be worthwhile is clearly personal opinions. As such I'll give mine...

There's an analogy, that when playing football you have to be thinking about where the ball WILL BE, not where the ball IS.

6 months ago, CDMA networks were arguably better than 3G networks... 3G was just beginning to go HSDPA etc. Many CDMA network are upgrading (cross grading?) to HSDPA with an aim towards LTE.

I'd have to think that Apple has its eye on where the ball is going to be, and the best way towards that is via 3GSM. There'll be other standards of course and Apple may be wrong - but if it is right then it doesn't have enough of the market to lose focus.

As I said - this question's answers can only be opinions, and there are good reasons both ways. That was MY opinion
post #108 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins

Because Korea, a major market Apple is no doubt interested in launching in, is largely CDMA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Now you know why it wouldn't be a waste.

Fair enough.
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