Spat with Rogers leaves Canadian Apple stores without iPhones - Page 3

I am wondering if this is possible. Somebody just gave me a 2.5G iphone and looking at the small print at the bottom of the iphone plan pages it says the plans are available on a 36 month contract. So does that mean I need to sign up for 3 years just to get the plan with my own phone? I will try calling them later on to ask about his.

I have just finished talking to a Rogers rep and in every respect it was quite encouraging.

For me personally, I have the option of upgrading to an iPhone and adding a separate Data Plan (http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wi..._service_plans) to my existing voice service plan. As such, I can, for $30, get the 300MB data pack and still keep our existing Pooled Family Eve/Weekend Plan.

My Evening/Weekend which we have had for some time starts at 6PM. Thus, we are reluctant to move to another plan.

Now, I realize that a number of you may not believe me, or in particular, what the Rogers Rep told me about the Data Usage, but here goes.

Rogers has been testing the iPhone from day one and their findings have consistently shown that the number of emails, web pages and photo attachments, i.e., 200,000, 3,100 and 1,360 respectively for 400MB, are in fact inline. In addition, the average data usage as tabled per AT&T user has been verified. As the Rep said, you will be amazed at how much you will be get on the iPhone with just a 400MB data plan.

Now the only caveat was that they haven't been informed what the price would be to upgrade to the iPhone under the above circumstances. Hopefully, as the rep said, it won't be much different if any for those eligible to upgrade than the current posted price.

What was encouraging was the admission that Rogers was well aware of all the ruckus surrounding their plans, that much of the issues were due to misinformed voices, and that Rogers was working hard to make it a success.

And oh yes. They all are wanting to get an iPhone for themselves. And on that, I am not going to mess around with her Karma.

What I think is most frustrating about the Canadian situation is the following list:

1. 3 year contracts
2. system access fees
3. no GSM competition
4. a country with much better plans is right next door

Bell, Rogers and Telus have been screwing customers for years without anyone coming along to upset the proverbial apple cart. Now they're being dragged kicking and screaming into a world that expects more from mobile internet than text email.

All over the world providers have discovered a new way to suck money from their customers: deny that SMS is really just data and should be included free in all data plans.

Do you have any idea how much you're paying for text messaging? It's more than 100,000 times as much as you are for other data.

If you seriously exceed your Rogers iPhone data plan you'll be charged 3 cents per MB.

If you send one too many text messages (usually less than 50 bytes) you're nailed 15 cents
That's $3145.73 per MB

Rogers drank my milkshake!



Do you currently have a phone from Rogers? Does it have a data plan? If so, then you can unlock the iPhone and use your SIM and get the goodness without having to change your plan or tell Rogers a thing.

Also, if it's true that Apple is not selling the iPhone in Canadian Apple retail locations, then they are really mis-firing on their promotional materials. To a degree I have never seen before.

As a .Mac member I have been buried in iPhone ads lately in my inbox and all of them say "on sale at your local Apple retail store." This is kind of typical in that it rarely occurs to USA-ians that any other countries exist but their own, but given that some of these emails are keyed on my purchases from the Canadian online Apple store, and given that my .Mac name address etc. is in Canada, you'd think that they would send a special email to the Canadian customers about this change.

I can guarantee that there are a lot of .Mac users in Canada that will be running to their local Apple store (as they have been told to in apple's email to them!) and will be very disappointed when they don't get to buy an iPhone.

Hell, given that it's Canada, there might even be folks that have driven for a day or so to get there!

Given that the launch is only a day or two away, Apple needs to send out an email or make some kind of official announcement that the iPhone *won't* be on sale at their stores, if only to counter the erroneous emails they are already sending out on the topic.

While not exactly a confirmation, the CBC article linked above does mention that Apple will be selling in their Apple Stores in other countries, specifically in the UK. The Apple UK page, on Where to Buy the iPhone mentions only O2 and CarPhone Warehouse. So, if Apple stores there are selling it, it seems they don't mention it.

I don't necessarily buy the CBC's stance that Canada is the only country where the iPhone is not being sold in Apple Stores. Considering that the CBC article touts the fact that it's not being sold as if it's news, yet their own Tod Maffin knew about it over two weeks ago suggests a certain lack of research on their part.

Certainly it is being sold in the U.S. -- that much is obvious. However I can find absolutely no concrete evidence that it is being sold in any other International Apple Store. Bear in mind as well that in some countries, like Australia, the iPhone will be available from multiple carriers. How would Apple handle this if in-store sign-up is going to be a requirement? Do they train their staff for every possible carrier? Particularly for the sake one ONE store in the entire country? Or do they just wash their hands of it and let the carriers handle it themselves?

The reality is that in the U.S. it makes sense to sell the iPhone in Apple Retail Stores.... They're almost as ubiquitous as AT&T stores. In every other country, however, Apple Stores are in the minority, particularly when compared to the outlets of the local cellular providers. From a purely business point of view, why would Apple waste time and resources training their staff and linking up their networks to various cellular carriers just to serve a small fraction of the overall population who live near Apple Stores?

Further, here in Toronto at least, each of the three locations with Apple Stores have at least one Rogers and one Fido store in the same mall. Some of the malls even have two Rogers Stores, plus other Rogers dealers such as Wireless Wave (who seem to think they will also be stocking the iPhone).

The bottom line is that in many of these countries, there may just not be a huge incentive for Apple to bother.

Hmm. Interesting. Perhaps you could tell Mr. Harris your perspective, so that he could become better informed and thus not making an ass of himself by writing such drivel. I am sure he would like to hear from you.

Oh here is the link. Enjoy. http://www.wirelessweek.com/Succeeding-SMS.aspx

Love to hear your comments on how it could be done for nothing.

Nope, I'm with Bell right now. Was thinking about canceling with Bell to use the 2.5G iphone instead. But if I have to sign up for 3 years just to use my own phone on a Rogers or Fido plan then forget it. I'll stick with Bell and I can add unlimited Hotspot access to my Bell plan for $24 a month and just use the iphone as an iPod Touch for the time being. To add hotspot access to a Fido plan apparently costs $40 per month and Rogers charges $24 per month for 600 minutes of Hotspot access. Again, another glaring price difference for what is, in this case, the exact same product!

A couple people at MacOSRumor forums said they called UK Apple Stores and were told there would be selling them there. Here is one.

LOL

Thanks Apple, no need to shift over too much units to Europe. At least, not to
Germany. Know what we get for $60 (ok 29 Euro actually, which is roughly $48) :

- 50 minutes (+weekend), $0.6 per additional minute
- no SMS
- 100 MB of data (any additional MB for just $0.8)
- have to fork over $300 for the 8GB version, upfront
- 24 months contract

Compared to that, the Rogers deal sounds like a steal ...

The CBC has corrected its story. It now reads:

"Apple has a number of stores in the United Kingdom, seven in Japan and one each in Italy and Australia. It is unclear whether they will be selling the iPhone."

Kris Abel of CTV, and thusly Rogers, apparently disagree with that usage estimation.

http://krisabel.ctv.ca/blog/_archive...8/3782141.html

They own the only cable company, they own one of the biggest video rental services, they are big, and mean, and people loves to hate them... I know I do. It's like I can blame everything on Rogers and I feel better.
Anyhow, that's what you get when you have to deal with a near monopoly. The sad thing is that they will probably sold out anyways...

I just called (3:52 EST) the Regent Street Store and was told that they don't know if they are going to be selling them. They think that they are getting some to demo. But that's if for now.

Love Skype, I can call virtually anywhere.

lol..

If you watch this YouTube clip there is a developer that is interviewed that actually states that he has been shut down by Rogers so they remain a monopoly. Check 4:30min of the clip. This company was trying to sell plans but Rogers cut them off. MONOPOLY TACTICS!

Hmm, I don't like the fact that nothing in the CBC article indicates it has been updated and what has changed. Usually CBC is pretty good, but that's not very professional, they should be clear when they have changed the text in an article.

Agreed. Even the "Last Updated" time didn't change.

Can't argue about it. I took the numbers posted earlier. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._150_mins.html

Interesting that the photo numbers aren't much different. Perhaps it is the only criteria that was common in the tests. Would love to see the study protocols.

Still, if these new numbers hold, it is still quite impressive.

iPhone will be available from multiple places in Australia, including 3rd party stores, i know that for sure. My Mac Australia has announced it will be selling it. For Apple not to sell it at their OWN stores in Canada, me thinks Apple not happy :P

Point I was making is that this is indicative of the entire problem with this whole launch in Canada right now. There is no clarity on any aspect of this and even Rogers can't agree with itself on what is what.

Makes it hard to make an informed decision with only 3 days to go don't you think?

But will it be sold at the Apple Store in Sydney?

The fact that third-party cellular carrier stores are selling it is obvious.... This time around it's really being treated like any other cell phone in terms of how it's being sold (all hype aside).

However, the key problem is that any carrier that is subsidizing the iPhone naturally doesn't want it walking out of the store at the subsidized price without a contract, since they risk losing money. This is especially true with the iPhone and all of the underground sales and unlocking that went on with the first iteration. If Apple is unable or unwilling to equip their own people to handle the carrier activation procedures, that rules out the Apple Stores in those countries.

Further, Apple is all about image, and this is clear in their stores. If they feel that dealing with carrier issues might adversely affect their Apple Retail image, they're going to avoid doing that entirely. For instance, the idea of having a Rogers or Fido rep standing in an Apple Store would probably be something they'd shy away from. Further, although I could see Apple Stores selling it at the non-subsidized price, I think Apple would want to avoid doing this on day one, since it would look extremely expensive and they're trying to push the low price of the new model.

Call Rogers and speak to Sales. Tell them you were planning on buying an iPhone but then you saw the data plan and now you will not. Tell them they lost a potential customer.

The more they get hammered and the more bad press, they will cave.

Interesting story... but of course... there are a grand total of 6 Apple Stores in the whole of Canada... 3 of which are in Toronto... so you know... whatever.

They don't care. They just plain old don't care. They make their big money off BlackBerry corporate data plans. This is also the top reason their iPhone plans are so shitty - they don't want to compete with themselves by offering better pricing than their current cash-cow.

It's really that simple... and it's depressing, and frustrating, because we don't have anyone else to provide us with service for the iPhone. It's REALLY frustrating.

Apple can't get it right???? You must be kidding.

If anyone can't get it right, it's Rogers. The sign up process will be oh-so-Apple-like in that it will be mind-numbingly simple for the staff to do.

I asked a 3rd party Apple retailer manager if they were selling the iPhone and at the time he informed me that Rogers had an exclusive for the phone, which also included the half dozen Canadian Apple-owned stores would NOT be selling the phone either. Unfortunately Rogers has more retail coverage than Apple has in Canada.

Rogers does actually generate a small amount of revenue from the phone sale and then also the contract. It really is a shame that Apple has done the deal they have. I'm confident that Apple didn't expect the unintended consequences of Rogers' RAPE Plans announcements with Canadians. I really hope that Canadians boycott Rogers en masse but fear that in the true Canadian lemming style we seem to behave by, that we'll just take it from Rogers right up the hoop.

And yesterday TELUS and Bell announced .15 cents per incoming text message. CANADA HAS NEVER NEEDED MORE COMPETITION IN THE WIRELESS INDUSTRY AS IT NEEDS TODAY.

Good luck to you chumps for the next 3 years that actually take it up the hoop to get an iPhone.

Based on delivering 'accuracy', the media is one of the worst. If the CBC can err, who know how far CTV goes. Until Rogers officially posts the new data, the old data (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4840130&EDATE=) has to suffice.

So far, there is no evidence sending e-mails or web surfing or sharing images via the iPhone requires the need for unlimited data plans as Rogers and most international carriers are betting on.

Perhaps Steve's insistence that the iPhone can only acquire large file or iTunes purchase to be Wi-Fi'd, and have the device automatically switch to the cheapest available delivery system (Wi-FIEdge3G) has set a new paradigm in wireless communication. I would certainly hope so.

As far as I can tell now, if Rogers announced their iPhone plans today, with the exception of a couple of carriers, the prices are not out of line. High maybe. But not out of line.

Yes, and if auto dealers left cars unlocked with keys in the ignition, you wouldn't have to tie yourself to a nasty multi-year car loan.

Funny thing, though. The people who work for car dealers want money to buy food, clothes, etc., and so do people who work for Apple, AT&T, Rogers, etc.

I think the boys from Apple need to do that to Vodafone NZ!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong but it wouldn't matter in this case: Rogers is the ONLY GSM provider in Canada... so it's Rogers or nothing.

This post is bull@#%*. I called my local Rogers store who are selling the iPhone on Friday and they are receiving at least 200 of them so this story is nonsense. Not to defend Robbers (oops, Rogers) but I'm sure they will have stock at most locations and it was probably too complex for our Apple stores to figure out how to prepare the various voice/data plan combinations that are now possible with Rogers. Best they leave it up to Rogers really. Let us not forget that the deal between Rogers and Apple was signed, sealed and delivered well before it became known to the public.

And Motorola locked the Razr to only GSM when it debuted and the sidekick is STILL locked to t-mobile and the new Instinct is to Sprint, and your point? High profile devices often get exclusivity.

Ha, What are you a Rogers PR operative?? Their numbers are way off! I know I've posted this elsewhere, but I think it's totally necessary given this discussion thread!
I collected this data a few months ago for a post how bad Rogers Inc was at the time (which was literally 10X worse) but it certainly applies to this!

In this test, I'm focusing on the data use from normal web browsing. I am ignoring every other use of data on the iPhone.

I only ran the test on a randomly-choosen *subpages* of the websites AKA NOT THE LONG AND GRAPHIC HEAVY FRONT PAGES, and the chosen sub-pages usually consisted of an
article page or forum page, and most had zero flash elements. Just look at how large the average page size is for these popular websites I go to:

engadget.com (blog post subpage) 420KB
yahoo.com (news article subpage) 585KB
nytimes.com (news article subpage) 345KB
seedmagazine.com (article subpage) 223KB
discovermagazine.com (article subpage) 731KB
livescience.com (article subpage) 438KB
tgdaily.com (article subpage) 253KB
technologyreview.com (article subpage) 247KB
macrumors.com (forum page) 217KB
tmz.com (blog post subpage) 433KB

Average sub-page data size: 389KB/page.

So, using an iPhone with different 3G browsing limits, you can view:

250MB /30 = 8.3 MB per day = 21 web page views per day
300MB /30 = 10 MB per day = 25 web page views per day
400MB /30 = 13.3 MB per day = 34 web page views per day
600MB /30 = 20 MB per day = 51 web page views per day
750MB /30 = 25 MB per day = 64 web page views per day
1.0 GB /30 = 33.3 MB per day = 85 web page views per day
5.0 GB /30 = 166.7 MB per day = 428 web page views per day

Think of how fast you can zip through different webpages with a 3G phone getting 600-1200 kbps. You could easily view the 21 pages per day of the 250MB/month data plan in 10-15 minutes waiting for a bus!

And remember, this doesn't even include all the other things people will be doing that use data:

* Google Maps (especially now with GPS!) - Very easy to use many MBs in one quick session of scrolling around a map. Have a route-following GPS navigation for 15 minutes could easily use 25MB.
* Sending and Receiving Email and attachments - Remember, No MMS for pictures! Other office-type and PDF documents will be sent around as well.
* Uploading Photos - Flickr, MobileMe etc.
* Online Chat via AIM/MSN/SKYPE
* Viewing Youtube, MMS-type video, and other online video - video can quickly use A LOT of bandwidth. 3-7 seconds per MB.
* Downloading applications and games
*Online multiplayer gaming
* Internet radio streaming
[B]* Downloading mp3s

Not to mention all the applications that will require internet access and server access to function....

I hope that many of these countries are able to get a better allotment of data usage on their plans in the future. I'm sure all the telecom companies just aren't used to hardly any data being used on their networks so they've kept prices high. Hopefully that will change with the iPhone and they'll realize how popular data usage will be and lower the rates as the volume of users using data increases.

mods - please delete as Im moving post

How old are those rates?

Is there a reason the FRENCH language button is underneath the dog with the pink wig? I kid.. I kid...

They were the rates right until the iPhone 3G rates were announced... just 3-4 weeks ago I believe. The link in that article went to the main pricing page for smartphones. Funny how it is NOW broken!

EDIT: Apparently, those are still the RATES for non-iphone Smartphones?????

So one could infer that the data rates have gotten better with Rogers because of the iPhone?