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Class action suit claims Apple deceived over iPhone 3G speeds - Page 2

post #41 of 212
Whether the fault lies with Apple (Faulty Phone) or AT&T (Faulty network), THERE IS a big problem with the iPhone & reception!
I am now on my 3rd iPhone 3G in Los Angeles & the reception has been the same on all 3 phones ~ HORRIBLE!.
The 2.0.2 actually made my reception worse.
I don't care who's fault it is! All i know is somebody did not do there home work & released these prematurely!
Apple or AT&T or Both need to get there sh*t together & make this thing work! PERIOD!

post #42 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider999 View Post

I know that the phone plays a big roll in 3G connection, however, this 3G service is PROVIDED by AT&T not Apple. Now going off of that AT&T 3G connection are different all over the US. No two cites have the same 3G connection speed. For example, Chicago, New York, LA, big important cities to AT&T like those will have and do have a faster 3G connection than I do in Minneapolis. That is all AT&T. Apple has no control over this. Also, I love how she is using the internet as her hard facts and completely believing what AT&T has told her about 3G connection. Do you really think AT&T would tell you the truth about real connection speeds for their 3G network...ummm no.

Well Mrs. Smith I wish you the best, but I'm sure Apple gets plenty of pointless lawsuits sent to them every week and yours is no different than the rest. Might as well stop now before you receive a cease and desist letter from Apples army of amazing lawyers.

She will get traction from this simply because for every lawyer and expert Apple has, there will be others that want to take a shot. As this is quasi-exact science there is plenty wiggle from for interpretation of what is right and wrong.
post #43 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

Only if she can show that
1. Apple advertised it was 2 times faster
2. This was false.

Determining if it was false - have to look at the research done to make that claim. If the research was good then what more could Apple do? Also the amount of people in real-world situations who DON'T get that speed increase would play some part (and I'd say that <1% not getting the boost wouldn't be enough).

We don't get Edge on our GSM network, so can't comment on speed change. 3G is certainly about 5-10 times faster than GPRS. In my office we get flakey 3G (and we are in a 3G area) so maybe we are considered part of that <1% who are not getting double speed (when in the office)?

But did Apple qualify the speed with "up to" or some other term showing this was possible but not guaranteed? Besides that, the speed of the network has no baring outside of the iPhone which is technically capable of 7.2Mbps with the Infineon HSDPA chips that are reportedly being used. At least Apple is advertising that theoretical top speeds of the chips like every other manufacturers' spec sheets. Apple can't be held responsible if AT&T doesn't have any 3G coverage or as fast as advertised 3G coverage in her area.
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post #44 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But did Apple qualify the speed with "up to" or some other term showing this was possible but not guaranteed. But the speed of the network has no baring outside of the iPhone. Apple can't be held responsible if AT&T doesn't have coverage or fast coverage in her area. The Infineon HSDPA chips are capable of 7.2Mbps. At least Apple is advertising that theoretical top speeds of the chips like every other manufacturers' spec sheets.

This is EXACTLY correct! My son works for AT&T and what customers DO NOT understand is that listed speeds are NOT guaranteed, and speed thereof and less than is the standard for ALL bloody providers. Apple has not in any way mislead anyone.

Having started with the beloved Motorola brick it astounds me how ignorant people are nowadays who use mobile phones.
post #45 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Okay so performing substandard but still performing is a passing grade, but what if these performance parameters are not what Apple advertised? Then there is a problem. I would like to see the technical data on the performance. I think the fact that Apple finally came out and admitted there was a problem was what people (this lady) was waiting for. Apple admitted a problem in their phone.

I agree that there is a problem which Apple needs to address. And Apple has issued two updates to the firmware and Jobs promised yesterday that a further fix would be coming in September. Of course, the plaintiff and her attorneys (and, no doubt, other) had no way of knowing Apple's future plans because Apple has been silent. On the other hand, I can see where Apple's speedier acknowledgement of a problem would have seen countless more suits already filed.

As is the case in all lawsuits, the details matter. For instance, Apple can reasonably argue that the claim that the iPhone 3G is "twice as fast, half the price" is factually correct: the hardware and software are designed to operate at least at twice the EDGE speeds and in many cases do, and the price of the 3G handset is, in fact, half that of the original version. Apple can also reasonably argue that her "expectations" are a QOS issue which needs to be addressed by ATT. Mind you, nothing I have said exonerates Apple or the iPhone 3G and if this suit causes Apple to more quickly address the issues, great.
post #46 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

This is EXACTLY correct! My son works for AT&T and what customers DO NOT understand is that listed speeds are NOT guaranteed, and speed thereof and less than is the standard for ALL bloody providers. Apple has not in any way mislead anyone.

Having started with the beloved Motorola brick it astounds me how ignorant people are nowadays who use mobile phones.

This is correct in that Sonera offers 3G speeds. However, if you are willing to pay more you can get a guaranteed max, but the caveat is that it has to be in a metro area with blanket 3G coverage. If I request and pay for a higher speed and am in a metro area with blanket coverage and the iPhone does not deliver then, well yes Apple is "probably" libel as the phone is the problem, not the network.

As for ignorance with cell phones, but in many cases the US is lagging behind the rest of the world.
post #47 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

I agree that there is a problem which Apple needs to address. And Apple has issued two updates to the firmware and Jobs promised yesterday that a further fix would be coming in September. Of course, the plaintiff and her attorneys (and, no doubt, other) had no way of knowing Apple's future plans because they have been silent. On the other hand, I can see where Apple's speedier acknowledgement of a problem would have seen countless more suits already filed.

As is the case in all lawsuits, the details matter. For instance, Apple can reasonably argue that the claim that the iPhone 3G is "twice as fast, half the price" is factually correct: the hardware and software are designed to operate at least at twice the EDGE speeds and in many cases do, and the price of the 3G handset is, in fact, half that of the original version. Apple can also reasonably argue that her "expectations" are a QOS issue which needs to be addressed by ATT. Mind you, nothing I have said exonerates Apple or the iPhone 3G and if this suit causes Apple to more quickly address the issues, great.


For sure it will be interesting. I have popcorn on hand. This will be must see TV.
post #48 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

As for ignorance with cell phones, but in many cases the US is lagging behind the rest of the world.

Agreed.
post #49 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Personally, I would settle for a new phone.

But if the problem is not with the phone but with your location and AT&T 3G speeds in that area a new phone would not solve the issue.
post #50 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

For sure it will be interesting. I have popcorn on hand. This will be must see TV.

More like must avoid TV. I can only imagine the boring minutia that these kinds of suits entail.
post #51 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider999 View Post

But if the problem is not with the phone but with your location and AT&T 3G speeds in that area a new phone would not solve the issue.

Sorry my friend. I live in Finland at the moment. The best networks and services in the world.

To be fair, for the most part my iPhone is okay. I think my Nokia's are faster but then again to be truthful I do not care. I have unlimited (really no limits or caps or fine print) data for less than 25 dollars, so if it takes a bit longer to get the page it just does. I don't pay for it anyway.

However if I did pay and it was not right because the networks here are pretty darn good, then Apple would have to pony up a phone or some cash.
post #52 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

More like must avoid TV. I can only imagine the boring minutia that these kinds of suits entail.

I'm just here for the entertainment value. I hope some performance data gets released.
post #53 of 212
Radio signals vary from location to location and from device to device. You can have to two devices using the same network and device A will have a stronger signal than Device B. You can take those same two devices to another location and the opposite will be true. No one can guarantee a strong radio signal everywhere. It is in fact impossible. You can't even guarantee signal strength over a physical wire connection.

This lawsuit has no merit and no legs to stand on.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #54 of 212
Just for kicks I headed over to Wired.com's iphone 3g speeds site (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/0...ne-global.html) to check out Alabama. The reported download speeds for Birmingham show 3g as being ~6x faster than EDGE, all being faster than 1000 kbps. Of course no one who is having problems with their phone is likely to bother participating.

I'm no lawyer so I'm not really sure I understand her claim. How does she expect to get money out of this? Will she claim her inability to surf the internet twice as fast as the original iPhone caused her emotional distress or loss in productivity? I don't see how she could be awarded any more than the cost of the phone. I bought some stick-on wall hangers last week and they didn't stick to my wall at all. False advertising? Call me crazy, but instead of talking to a lawyer about a potential lawsuit, I returned them to the store for my money...

Also, for the record, based on the vague wording of the article and current sales estimates, the affected percentage could be anywhere from 0.2% to 3.0% of owners.
post #55 of 212
Quote:
In the 10-page complaint, Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original where the practical experience has fallen well short of the mark.

The words "practical experience" might be what the case hinges on. In my opinion "practical" implies nothing out of the ordinary, just day to day usage. If she can prove that her practical, day to day, usage was affected and not what Apple promised she might win.
post #56 of 212
Apple has it listed in black and white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.apple.com/iphone/

* Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers.
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post #57 of 212
I think that I have a valid legal claim too because my new iPhone is more then twice as fast as my old one-not exactly "twice as fast"
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post #58 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmnikricket View Post

I'm no lawyer so I'm not really sure I understand her claim. How does she expect to get money out of this? Will she claim her inability to surf the internet twice as fast as the original iPhone caused her emotional distress or loss in productivity? I don't see how she could be awarded any more than the cost of the phone....

The economic injury is the part of the suit that seems to be overreaching to me. I can understand the monetary damage claims for the cost of the handset and, possibly, ATT service. Then again, I am no lawyer.
post #59 of 212
Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.
post #60 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

1) When did you buy it? Are you still within the 30 day return policy?

2) You say "everyone with 3G phone has all their bars" but you don't say if they are all on AT&T or if they are on Sprint or Verizon. This makes a big difference in determining where the problem lays.

3) You don't state or imply that this just started with one of the updates so I have to assume this has been an issue from the start so, assuming you answered no in #1, why didn't you get your money if you thought the device or service was so bad?
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post #61 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

Have you contacted Apple? ATT? Visited an Apple Store?
post #62 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

I can understand. Apple has likely been tracking down the problems and working on a fix.

What does a lawsuit do to help the situation?
post #63 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Exactamundo. Right on the money.

I have two other 3G phones. Nokia N82 and Nokia E61. I will concede that the iPhone has a better browser, but if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable. The iPhone is not slow but it is not as fast as other 3G phones. Apple better shit a solution and fast.

How is any of the relevant to the claim or the article. Are the N82 and E61 ONLY 2x faster than the iPhone 1G? Therefore the claim is valid? These types of comments are so out there that they lose credibility instantly. iPhone may, or may not, be worse that other 3G phone right now that is is totally irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
post #64 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I can understand. Apple has likely been tracking down the problems and working on a fix.

What does a lawsuit do to help the situation?

It would impose a penalty for selling a defective product. I would have thought it was obvious by now.
post #65 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

How is any of the relevant to the claim or the article. Are the N82 and E61 ONLY 2x faster than the iPhone 1G? Therefore the claim is valid. These types of comments are so out there that they lose credibility instantly. iPhone may, or may not, be worse that other 3G phone right now that is is totally irrelevant to the issue being discussed.

The phones I mentioned are 3G phones that perform as advertised. The iPhone is a 3G phone that doesn't. Is this crystal clear now? Game, set, match.
post #66 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

It would impose a penalty for selling a defective product. I would have thought it was obvious by now.

You would have to penalize every computer and electronics manufacturer because at some point they sold a defective product.
post #67 of 212
This has to be the most idiotic claim I've seen in a while. Simply stated, if you're not pleased with the device, RETURN IT. Get your money back and purchase another device - if you want another iPhone, fine.

I live in Atlanta and I have a iPhone 3G, having switched from Verizon. Believe me, Verizon is NOT all that it's cracked up to be - I constantly had dropped calls and had a one year old Samsung SCH-u740. I do not regret switching to AT&T to get the iPhone and have had limited issues. I accept that cell service is NEVER going to be "perfect." There are too many factors that impact reception. But filing a class-action lawsuit is a little over the top.

Just be patient - Apple will issue subsequent fixes. Maybe AT&T will upgrade their network to work better, too!
post #68 of 212
I'm in Birmingham, AL and love my 3G. It is much faster than the original iPhone and I have not had a dropped call.

Ralph
Birmingham, AL
post #69 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

It would impose a penalty for selling a defective product. I would have thought it was obvious by now.

But a class action lawsuit generally doesn't help the consumer. It might get a small coupon to buy another product from the same company. Relatively speaking, it's just a slap on the hand and the company that was sued can go about their business.
post #70 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

This woman is a venomous money sucker.

She's just seeing $$$ in her eyes.

Yeah, I bet she was one of those bitching about the $200.00 price drop within two month of buying the original iPhone and demanding a refund there too!

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post #71 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

The phones I mentioned are 3G phones that perform as advertised. The iPhone is a 3G phone that doesn't. Is this crystal clear now? Game, set, match.

Are you kidding???? You've not even come close to stating anything quantitive which, of course, is the normal course of business on these forums. Whatever is emotionally satisfying goes. How does the 3G iPhone compare to the 1G? Do you have any statistics to compare? Do you have any idea what quantitative means?

Apple's claims weren't relative to Nokia they were relative to the 1G iPhone? I don't know if they're right or wrong. I do know that with the 10 3G iPhone's we've purchased they are easily more that 2x faster than the 1G where there is 3G service. Every FACT I have at my disposal support Apple's claims but I'm the first to admit I don't have statistics EITHER way. Swish!!!
post #72 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.

Actually, what she should do is call Apple and say I'll drop my lawsuit if Apple puts me in one of those iPhone commercials, while standing in front of a black curtain backdrop, showing a ordinary iPhone user talking about their experience with the iPhone and showing off its features as they apply in their world and not as it performs on a stage at the Moscone Center!

Of course, all this will be mute some time in September, according to Steve.

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post #73 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

how is the truth 'negative'..??

Uh, gee, I don't know... perhaps when it is YOUR version of the "truth".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Based on what facts or study? Using what test format? What was determined to be the baseline for all similar devices tested?

I could go on and on, but I think (or at least hope) that you get my point.

Better yet, show me one post in this forum where you have had so much as one complete post that was positive in nature with regards to any Apple product or service? And please, don't just post a series of links to Fox News or MSNBC. If you have some tests that were conducted in a controlled environment, then bring it on. Say, a technical journal?
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post #74 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

I think that I have a valid legal claim too because my new iPhone is more then twice as fast as my old one-not exactly "twice as fast"

hehe...
That's actually possible. In countries where the data allowance is 80MB and then $1/MB... you don't want things to go too fast!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

I want my iPhone to work fully too. And am waiting for Apple to make it happen (bad reception at the office - either make it work, or make it drop reliably to 2G, I don't care which).

However, I think this lawsuit is crap. It's not about not getting "double data speed" as advertised, it's about a stable working device.
post #75 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.

Can you hear me now? NO!, Can you hear me now? NO! Can you hear me...

We all know, I hope, that ANY carrier cannot guarantee 100% of the time, 100% coverage, 100% no dropped calls, 100% 3G, 100% receiving calls in buildings, 100% no carrier downtime for maintenance, etc. But if the product maker, Apple, says that their product is a 3G phone with "twice the speed" and yet the customer who purchased the phone due to its 3G advertisement about faster speeds for browsing, etc. could never take advantage because they never received a reliable, steady 3G signal, even when the carrier, AT&T, says your on top of our cell tower (being literal there) and especially when other 3G products are doing fine there, well, then I guess according to those who think she doesn't have a leg to stand on, I guess that Apple can do away with future software/firmware updates, they are not needed, because 2.0.2 is just fine, thank you very much!

Seriously, I have even read posts where AT&T is refunding $30.00 to some subscribers because one is paying for a service that they are not receiving.

And before statutory law, the buyer had no warranty of the quality of goods. In many jurisdictions, the law now requires that goods must be of "merchantable quality".

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post #76 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Can you hear me now? NO!, Can you hear me now? NO! Can you hear me...
<snip>
I guess according to those who think she doesn't have a leg to stand on, I guess that Apple can do away with future software/firmware updates, they are not needed, because 2.0.2 is just fine, thank you very much!

Don't yell at me.

Are you even talking to me? You're not addressing what I said in the slightest. Or are you just quoting me before you say what you want to say?

ps.
I remember in primary school the principle was fixing the microphone and said "Joe Bloggs - can you hear me up the back?". Joe answered "Pardon Sir?" - and got detention.

If the person asks "Can you hear me?" and gets no response, that means "No". And in this case No means yes, of course... :-)
post #77 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are[a] where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Where are you located 90% of the time? Indoors I'll bet. Are you comparing performance between the different 3G phones when they are in the exact same location? AT&T EDGE communicates at 850 MHz, which penetrates walls better than the 1900 MHz that its 3G service runs on. Depending on where the cell towers are located and the density of your building, your cellular service might just have to be EDGE when you're inside there.

Quote:
Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.

Your story just doesn't have the ring of truth, because 3G is pretty damn fast even with 1 bar--certainly faster than EDGE--and the iPhone Locator facility is largely independent of cell phone service unless you're indoors where GPS signals can't be received. Furthermore, if you've got Wi-Fi turned off, you're so far buried in a building that the cellular signals can't reach you, and GPS satellites certainly can't be received, then the iPhone Locator facility just isn't going to work for you.

Is this your first smart phone? Your first cell phone?

Quote:
So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

Too bad you didn't return the device within the 30-day evaluation period. Considering its price, you must have been satisfied to a good degree to keep it... or maybe you work for Verizon.
post #78 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

However, I think this lawsuit is crap. It's not about not getting "double data speed" as advertised, it's about a stable working device.

I agree that it's all about a stable working device.

Lets see, we had 2.0 software released with the 3G iPhone that had its share of flaws.

So, Apple released software 2.0.1 that fixed bugs on some phones and cause other phones that didn't have problems to now have problems.

So, Apple released software 2.0.2 that fixed bugs on some more phone and yet still caused other phones that didn't have problems to now have problems.

So, Apple is working on yet another software release...

Three iPhone software releases for an Apple product since its July 12th release and a fourth on the way... This is what Apple lovers everywhere expect from a MS os release but not from Apple!

That alone justifies the lawsuit.

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post #79 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

Don't yell at me.

Are you even talking to me? You're not addressing what I said in the slightest. Or are you just quoting me before you say what you want to say?

ps.
I remember in primary school the principle was fixing the microphone and said "Joe Bloggs - can you hear me up the back?". Joe answered "Pardon Sir?" - and got detention.

If the person asks "Can you hear me?" and gets no response, that means "No". And in this case No means yes, of course... :-)

I would never yell at you.

But if I did, IT WOULD LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!!!!

Seriously, the post of yours and I quote, "The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone..."

But if her experience is such that she never got to enjoy 3G service and thus 3G speeds and thus could not experience twice as fast as the original iPhone, then she never had a "3G" iPhone, did she? And if the 3G iPhone reverts to speeds of the original iPhone, then nothing was gained for her purchase of a less expensive phone but a more expensive rate plan.

My "Can you hear me now? No!" take on Verizon's commercial is merely satire of someone who cannot for the life of them get reliable 3G to experience that "twice as fast as the original iPhone" no matter where they are, is all I'm saying.

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post #80 of 212
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"3G not available in all areas."
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