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Next-gen MacBook, MacBook Pro spotted in matching outfits - Page 4

post #121 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think the SxS concept is pretty nice, but the transition to file-based capture and storage is still only just getting started and ongoing. I expect it to take several years, who knows, maybe a decade to transition away from tape. We're what, a year and a half into SxS and Sony still introduced a new pro HDV camcorder like last month.

Damn. I like the way you put it better.
post #122 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyopiaRocks View Post

Here's traction: I disagree about the physical connection into a "dummy imac", because the current air seems to have the "hearts and minds" of apple's style police and uses wireless for airdisk... the current mba has two huge, deal-killing, limitations:
- Not enough ports
- Too slow

Intel's July/August updates allows current technology in the mba form-factor, so the remaining deal-breaker is the lack of ports. Apple's solution on the air was airdisk; using an existing computer as a wireless dock for optical media, etc. The logical progression of this technology, though, would be a "dummy mini"-like box ('a brick') with all the ports... except instead of being a standalone machine for $500 it's an apple-tv like $200, and it wirelessly docks with the laptop using existing airdisk technology. Put the brick out of sight, and when the laptop's within range you're good to go because everything you'd ever want is already hooked up. No dock-connectors, ugly or otherwise.

One last thought: Dock-connector interfaces take up internal space in a laptop - the smallest laptop wouldn't have one.

I agree about your mba points. As an everyday user of the Adobe CS3 programs, the air isn't enough of a computer. And the minimal use of ports clearly isn't something that should carry over to the pro line. Also, I am hoping that the next pro update will include another evolutionary step, regarding the internal architecture, that has been hinted at in some of the previous threads.

The thing I like about this patent from January is the potential convenience that comes with adding more screen real estate as well as the possible addition of ports and storage. While I will probably end up getting a cinema display to complement my next macbook pro, I personally prefer working off of one large screen.
post #123 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by hook View Post

I agree about your mba points. As an everyday user of the Adobe CS3 programs, the air isn't enough of a computer. And the minimal use of ports clearly isn't something that should carry over to the pro line. Also, I am hoping that the next pro update will include another evolutionary step, regarding the internal architecture, that has been hinted at in some of the previous threads.

The thing I like about this patent from January is the potential convenience that comes with adding more screen real estate as well as the possible addition of ports and storage. While I will probably end up getting a cinema display to complement my next macbook pro, I personally prefer working off of one large screen.


Adding an ACD, or other quality external display, is an excellent solution, as serious photo editing on a laptop display is clearly not a good solution.
post #124 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The daisy chaining is why I would like to see displayport. It's the only standard that supports multiple displays from a single source. No more issues with the Mini not supporting dual displays and who knows how many displays a Mac Pro could run...

With Displayport you also don't pay royalties to some other company, which means cheaper computers...

I read that there will be a displayport to VGA adaptor. If you can get DVI-D to VGA adaptors and displayport to DVI, it should be possible...

The problem here though is that there are multiple standards. Apple were backing UDI before it died. What if they go displayport only and HDMI takes over completely? There will be adaptors but it means you'll always have to use them...

It won't be quite the same deal as there are adaptors and there were no native mini-dvi displays before so most people were always using adaptors anyway so I guess it's not an issue and the size of the port is a huge improvement.

Wikipedia says DisplayPort is backwards compatible with DVI and HDMI, with a dongle, and that it is a smaller port physically than the others. And as you say is royalty free. Why wouldn't Apple use it then, since Apple doesn't mind asking users to plug in adapters and wants the smallest ports possible to make the machine as svelte as possible? Are there any other downsides to DisplayPort than your point that it is not in widespread use yet? Does it have any draconian DRM chip for example?
post #125 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzentosh View Post

Are there any other downsides to DisplayPort than your point that it is not in widespread use yet? Does it have any draconian DRM chip for example?

None at all.
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post #126 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyopiaRocks View Post

Here's traction: I disagree about the physical connection into a "dummy imac", because the current air seems to have the "hearts and minds" of apple's style police and uses wireless for airdisk... the current mba has two huge, deal-killing, limitations:
- Not enough ports
- Too slow

The point of the MBA is to be small and minimalist. More ports would change the current design.

How are you qualifying too slow. MBA isn't meant to be a desktop replacement. The processor its using what unique to the MBA when it was launched and was much faster than other thin notebooks.
post #127 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think the SxS concept is pretty nice, but the transition to file-based capture and storage is still only just getting started and ongoing. I expect it to take several years, who knows, maybe a decade to transition away from tape. We're what, a year and a half into SxS and Sony still introduced a new pro HDV camcorder like last month.

In the pro video market tapeless workflow is quickly over running tape workflow and should become the norm within the next couple of years. For two primary reasons. Video requires less compression when tape isn't involved. Digitizing tape in real time for editing takes up too much time. While moving a data file takes a fraction of the time.

Its difficult to tell with the prosumer market. Sony and Panasonic have made a mess of that market with too many cameras. But I imagine tapeless will soon become the big marketing slogan. The masses will be herded in that direction.
post #128 of 163
I'm afraid the MacBook Pro really isn't "pro" enough from what it sounds like. I think they need a portable desktop option without the emphasis on thinness (still be thinner than a Lenovo) but with more professional-oriented features like dual drive bays, 4 USB ports, HDMI input, and route-thru, Blu Ray, etc.
post #129 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgoob View Post

I'm afraid the MacBook Pro really isn't "pro" enough from what it sounds like. I think they need a portable desktop option without the emphasis on thinness (still be thinner than a Lenovo) but with more professional-oriented features like dual drive bays, 4 USB ports, HDMI input, and route-thru, Blu Ray, etc.

This seems to be your personal opinion. What you list aren't necessarily "pro" features or useful for the wider market.
post #130 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

I had a backlit keyboard once and after trying it out, never used it once. I don't type in the dark. How many really do?

I have two things to add to this:
Why are people looking directly at the keyboard in the first place? It takes about 2 days to get used to the Macbook layout and be able to type without looking.

Even if you did need to see the keys, the light from the screen is plenty bright. You could read a book with it.
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post #131 of 163
Personally, I have been using a computer (in one form or another, started on terminals connected to a Burroughs mainframe) for the last thirty years, and I still cannot touch type. But I have advanced to using at least two fingers and a thumb per hand!

So with that in mind, I would LOVE to see the backlit keyboard become a standard feature across the entire Apple laptop lineā€¦
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post #132 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Personally, I have been using a computer (in one form or another, started on terminals connected to a Burroughs mainframe) for the last thirty years, and I still cannot touch type. But I have advanced to using at least two fingers and a thumb per hand!

So with that in mind, I would LOVE to see the backlit keyboard become a standard feature across the entire Apple laptop line

I have to look when I'm typing numbers. Still, I've been amazed what a popular feature the backlit keyboard is. It matters none to me and I'd rather see the money go toward memory or bigger drives.
post #133 of 163
I would like to have powerfull laptop with enough usb and firewire connectors. and bluray.

I don`t need battery at all and laptop doesn`t need to be that small. I always use power cable.

Battery could be replaced by another hard drive. two hard drives could really be something.
post #134 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzentosh View Post

Why wouldn't Apple use it then, since Apple doesn't mind asking users to plug in adapters and wants the smallest ports possible to make the machine as svelte as possible? Are there any other downsides to DisplayPort than your point that it is not in widespread use yet? Does it have any draconian DRM chip for example?

There are no reasons against it other than it not being in widespread use but there was a negative reaction when Dell tried to do this:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/14227...ort_folly.html

The argument is not particularly sound though because it suggests HDMI should stay because it was first even though Displayport has no royalties (saving 4 cents per device + $10,000 per year) and it supports multiple displays.

The first comment at the bottom is interesting about USB3. At 4.8Gbps bandwidth, it could output HD video to a display too. You can do this with current USB ports but the bandwidth is too low for anything but a spare screen for showing stuff that isn't updated much.

This way you can have as many displays as USB ports. It's a shame USB3 won't be available for a while yet.

The only displayport displays available are thousands of dollars and I've only found 3 models supporting it. No consumer-level devices support it. HDMI has far better support. Apple could easily absorb the cost of HDMI - the sole advantage of displayport is multiple displays but this may require multiple displayport displays. The risk Apple would run is banking on display manufacturers supporting displayport in future over HDMI.

If they put displayport in the Cinema display, it helps but they couldn't go displayport only with them so they'd need multiple connections. They could go HDMI only as you can use a DVI to HDMI adaptor from older computers. I haven't seen a DVI to Displayport adaptor.
post #135 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

There are no reasons against it other than it not being in widespread use but there was a negative reaction when Dell tried to do this:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/14227...ort_folly.html

The argument is not particularly sound though because it suggests HDMI should stay because it was first even though Displayport has no royalties (saving 4 cents per device + $10,000 per year) and it supports multiple displays.

The first comment at the bottom is interesting about USB3. At 4.8Gbps bandwidth, it could output HD video to a display too. You can do this with current USB ports but the bandwidth is too low for anything but a spare screen for showing stuff that isn't updated much.

This way you can have as many displays as USB ports. It's a shame USB3 won't be available for a while yet.

The only displayport displays available are thousands of dollars and I've only found 3 models supporting it. No consumer-level devices support it. HDMI has far better support. Apple could easily absorb the cost of HDMI - the sole advantage of displayport is multiple displays but this may require multiple displayport displays. The risk Apple would run is banking on display manufacturers supporting displayport in future over HDMI.

If they put displayport in the Cinema display, it helps but they couldn't go displayport only with them so they'd need multiple connections. They could go HDMI only as you can use a DVI to HDMI adaptor from older computers. I haven't seen a DVI to Displayport adaptor.

1) While Display Port is proprietary it can has been designed to support HDCP and the HDMI/DBI video signals., so only an adapter would be needed.

2) Apple doesn't care about what it going on today in technology. It needs to look at will be happening years down the road as the Macs will be porting same same design for about 3 years.
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post #136 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

I have to look when I'm typing numbers. Still, I've been amazed what a popular feature the backlit keyboard is. It matters none to me and I'd rather see the money go toward memory or bigger drives.

The backlit keyboard is important for product tiers. It gives Apple one more thing to put in the list of features the Macbook Pro has, and the Macbook does not. I don't think they care if people use it.
post #137 of 163
I just need these to come out already. I'm sitting here with a 5 year old Toshiba Celeron laptop and it just doesn't do much of anything.

On top of that, everytime something happens with my iPhone and it goes into recovery mode (idk why it does it a lot of the time) my computer doesn't work to restore it for whatever reason. I've tried everything, and nothing works.

I've been waiting since this time last year for these.
post #138 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

The backlit keyboard is important for product tiers. It gives Apple one more thing to put in the list of features the Macbook Pro has, and the Macbook does not. I don't think they care if people use it.

Exactly. It's a nice, handy feature for many users. Sometimes working in the dark helps me focus and the backlit keys are a great help. Besides, if you don't like it, it can easily be disabled.

If you're not a touch-typist, like me even though I've used Macs since the 512K, it's extremely handy. Especially living in a small apartment, working late and not wanting disturb the girlfriend with lights on.

Personally, I'd like to see it on ALL Apple keyboards; laptops, wired and wireless.
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post #139 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

If you're not a touch-typist, like me even though I've used Macs since the 512K, it's extremely handy. Especially living in a small apartment, working late and not wanting disturb the girlfriend with lights on.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who appreciates the backlight on their keyboard for this reason alone!
post #140 of 163
After apples previous overhauls, what was done with the obsolete computers? How were they sold, ~at what kind of discount, where, ect.?
post #141 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswoulds32 View Post

After apples previous overhauls, what was done with the obsolete computers? How were they sold, ~at what kind of discount, where, ect.?

Apple doesn't have any sort of program for trading in old Macs, that I've heard of.

What I do is sell mine through craigslist. I used to do eBay, but it's too much of a hassle.
I try to sell my machines (laptops) after about 2 years, which leaves 1 year of AppleCare to sweeten the deal. I usually get about half what I originally paid and toss in any machine specific accessories I have that I won't be able to use with a new machine, like PC Cards or case from my old PowerBook, etc.

The great thing about Macs, is that they hold their value very well in addition to outlasting the typical PC by 2x or 3x times.
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post #142 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

What are you going to switch to after nine years? Vista ?!@#$%^&*
Idle threats.
Pros love to bitch and moan but really you spend $5000 on a camera and can't spend $20 bucks on a FireWire 800 to 400 cable. Most Pros already cart around crates full of every imaginable cable, dongle and adapter known to man.



Just call me "bag man"-- my compulsion, though, is making the bags to carry the stuff look good-- lots of nice leather pouches and bags fit just right. Sick, totally sick.
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post #143 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

I have to look when I'm typing numbers. Still, I've been amazed what a popular feature the backlit keyboard is. It matters none to me and I'd rather see the money go toward memory or bigger drives.

I don't think the feature really costs a lot of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswoulds32 View Post

After apples previous overhauls, what was done with the obsolete computers? How were they sold, ~at what kind of discount, where, ect.?

Apple doesn't have any sort of program for trading in old Macs, that I've heard of.

I'm pretty sure what was meant was the overstock of the previous model.

I think they do take in old Macs as part of their recycling program, though even if it's dead, it's probably still worth more to resell it for parts.

Apple often sells the previous model at a bit of a discount, maybe 10%, while they have stock. I've heard that Apple stores sell them, but I've not seen it myself. They often list them on the apple store site, go to the "Clearance" link in the "Special Deals" box. Right now it's just iPods, but that makes sense.
post #144 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't think the feature really costs a lot of money.



I'm pretty sure what was meant was the overstock of the previous model.

I think they do take in old Macs as part of their recycling program, though even if it's dead, it's probably still worth more to resell it for parts.

Apple often sells the previous model at a bit of a discount, maybe 10%, while they have stock. I've heard that Apple stores sell them, but I've not seen it myself. They often list them on the apple store site, go to the "Clearance" link in the "Special Deals" box. Right now it's just iPods, but that makes sense.

Apple stopped selling discounted models in the Apple Stores, the only source is the online Apple Store, or perhaps a third party vendor that has some old stock on hand. At the online store, go the lower left of the page, and click on "Refurbished Mac".
post #145 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

Apple stopped selling discounted models in the Apple Stores, the only source is the online Apple Store, or perhaps a third party vendor that has some old stock on hand. At the online store, go the lower left of the page, and click on "Refurbished Mac".

The Refurbished Macs are usually ones that have been repaired. You want to click on "Clearance" if you want to get reduced prices on non-used Macs that were discontinued.
post #146 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The Refurbished Macs are usually ones that have been repaired. You want to click on "Clearance" if you want to get reduced prices on non-used Macs that were discontinued.

In all of the time that I've spent there, I've never seen a Mac in the clearance section. Those have always shown up in the refurb section. YMMV
post #147 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

In all of the time that I've spent there, I've never seen a Mac in the clearance section.

I have. They don't last very long.
post #148 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

I have. They don't last very long.

It must be then that I looked at the wrong time. How do the prices compare with refurbed models, model to model? This is surprising, as I have spent a lot of time looking there for clearance model Macs, and never saw even one. That would lead me to believe that any finds are based on pure luck, as opposed to the refurb models.
post #149 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

In all of the time that I've spent there, I've never seen a Mac in the clearance section. Those have always shown up in the refurb section. YMMV

Most of the time, yes, but there were iMacs in the clearance section for a few months after the last update.
post #150 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

It must be then that I looked at the wrong time. How do the prices compare with refurbed models, model to model? This is surprising, as I have spent a lot of time looking there for clearance model Macs, and never saw even one. That would lead me to believe that any finds are based on pure luck, as opposed to the refurb models.

It has usually been iMacs but I've seen Macbook Pros in the clearance section before. They don't just appear there at random, only after an update. Price is in between the new price and the refurb price.
post #151 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

It has usually been iMacs but I've seen Macbook Pros in the clearance section before. They don't just appear there at random, only after an update. Price is in between the new price and the refurb price.

Well then, a refurb makes more sense, if it's cheaper, as it has same warranty as a brand new model. Thanks, I'll quit looking in the clearance section, in the future.
post #152 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This seems to be your personal opinion. What you list aren't necessarily "pro" features or useful for the wider market.

No, it's not my personal opinion. IT'S WHAT THE COMPETITION HAS (at least when it comes to things like 4 USB ports and dual drive bays and Blu Ray). The idea of an 8-bit LCD and a built-in Wacom tablet... makes me drool... Lenovo has it... why not Apple?

I could honestly live without dual drive bays. But Blu Ray? Tablet of some kind with stylus? 8-bit LCD? Perhaps eSATA? Standard **** man. But Apple doesn't have it, and all of you drones have a head-in-the-sand mentality. It's pathetic.
post #153 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkgoob View Post

Lenovo has it... why not Apple?

Head-in-the-sand mentality is thinking that Apple has to offer something because Lenovo does. There are things that Lenovo et al. will offer that Apple won't, and there are things that Apple will offer over the others. We have the option of choice. If Lenovo fits your needs better then go with Lenovo, but suggesting that a thriving company is doing it wrong because they do fit your specific needs makes no sense.

Quote:
I could honestly live without dual drive bays. But Blu Ray?

Since Apple is pushing Time Machine, I would personally like to have mirrored dual drives, but in the iMac, not the notebook line since cloud computing takes care of my needs when traveling and a simple FW plug does the rest when I connect the notebook. I just don't need the weight, cost or size increase of the additional drive. Besides Blu-ray being a lame duck for all but a few customers, Blu-ray doesn't seem to be possible at this time with any of the available drives I can find. Only the 24" iMac and 17" MBP would be able to take such a drive, and those 12.7mm drives are about a $1000 retail.
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post #154 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Head-in-the-sand mentality is thinking that Apple has to offer something because Lenovo does. There are things that Lenovo et al. will offer that Apple won't, and there are things that Apple will offer over the others. We have the option of choice.

This would be a fine and neat argument, if Apple was in the market of making Windows computers. But it isn't. Macs are dependent on OS X to survive, and OS X is dependent on enough suitable hardware being available. I'm not saying that Apple needs to make absolutely every sort of hardware, but they can't be very picky either. Should they choose to only make e.g. a Mac Pro, their Mac business would go under in short order.

So no, we don't really have so much choice as long as Lenovos don't run OS X.
Quote:
If Lenovo fits your needs better then go with Lenovo, but suggesting that a thriving company is doing it wrong because they do fit your specific needs makes no sense.

What *really* makes no sense is to suggest that Apple's success means all of its individual decisions are perfect.
post #155 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

This would be a fine and neat argument, if Apple was in the market of making Windows computers. But it isn't.

Where have you been for the last two years? They do make Windows compaitble computers so they are Windows computers. They even supply a nifty dynamic partition resizer app that allows contain all the necessary drivers.

Quote:
Macs are dependent on OS X to survive, and OS X is dependent on enough suitable hardware being available.

Now you are arguing my side. Of course Macs are dependent on OS X. Without OS X they would just be nicer looking PCs with a few extra HW components. The fact that Apple's PC business would die if they were forced to supply drivers and support OS X can run on any and all HW that Windows wishes to support is irresponsible in a free market.

Quote:
So no, we don't really have so much choice as long as Lenovos don't run OS X.

You mean like I have no choice but to buy an Xbox if I want to play Xbox games on Xbox Live? Should be illegal for the gaming console industry to force me to buy their HW -AND= SW combinations? Of course not! If you want a supported version of OS X you buy a Mac. If you want a cheap computer you buy an older Mac or you buy another brand of PC. Just because you want OS X to be socialized doesn't make it illegal.

Quote:
What *really* makes no sense is to suggest that Apple's success means all of its individual decisions are perfect.

Saying that Apple is thriving is a fact. Saying that "all of its individual decisions are perfect" is something I never implied and that you just made up. Apple had made plenty of mistakes, but tying an OS to HW so it can offer advantages over other PCs is not one of them, as the adoption rate of Macs v. other PCs shows.

For instance, no other PCs currently have a "gesturizing" multi-touch trackpad. Synaptic just announced that will be providing drivers for it, but that still leaves the issue of having the OS create frameworks and settings for multi-touch, and individual applications utilizing the frameworks. Can you guess which HW and SW platform has had them in production for almost a year now?
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post #156 of 163
I'm amazed at how photoshop pirates think that if they alter an apple photo they will fool somebody. They just take the some design elements and shrink or enlarge them. Let's make a 30 inch screen like an iPhone or a iMac screen the size of a tablet. Come on guys think different and get more creative.







post #157 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobborries View Post

I'm amazed at how photoshop pirates think that if they alter an apple photo they will fool somebody. They just take the some design elements and shrink or enlarge them. Let's make a 30 inch screen like an iPhone or a iMac screen the size of a tablet. Come on guys think different and get more creative.

You are misusing the word "pirate".

For the most part, you are probably misreading their intentions. I don't see most of them as trying to fool people, though some are. Most of the rest seem to be doing it as a fun exercise.
post #158 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobborries View Post

I'm amazed at how photoshop pirates think that if they alter an apple photo they will fool somebody. They just take the some design elements and shrink or enlarge them. Let's make a 30 inch screen like an iPhone or a iMac screen the size of a tablet. Come on guys think different and get more creative.




I know someone who would buy this. In a heartbeat. And that makes me kinda sad.
post #159 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism

Saying t hat Apple is thriving is a fact. Saying that "all of its individual decisions are perfect" is something I never implied and thatyou just made up.

"suggesting that a thriving company is doing it wrong because they do fit your specific needs makes no sense "

That sentence implies that if a company is successful, criticism of their strategy must be wrong. If you didn't want to imply it, you would have dropped "thriving", which leaves

"suggesting that a company is doing it wrong because they do fit your specific needs makes no sense"

and that I would agree with.

It's funny how *directly* after claiming you didn't commit the fallacy, you repeat it and make it more explicit:
Quote:
Apple had made plenty of mistakes, but tying an OS to HW so it can offer advantages over other PCs is not one of them, as the adoption rate of Macs v. other PCs shows.

Adoption of Macs vs. other PC's shows they are attractive to some consumers for some reason. Absent further arguments, the rest is just your guess.
post #160 of 163
Latest photoshop job....

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