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iPhone Dev Team successfully boots Linux on iPhone - Page 2

post #41 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinitaBoy View Post

Or are you just one of those guys that isn't happy until he has everything precisely HIS way?

Just listen to yourself. Apple have got you brainwashed good. Do you do everything Steve Jobs tells you to do?
post #42 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

They already are. Opera Browser for a 2nd browswer on Android greeted with open arms. That's the benefit of the Android.

The developers aren't limited by Apples day to day rule changes and Steve's paranoid NDA.

*End - No sarcasm meant.

Ok...that post had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted about, but whatever!
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post #43 of 79
This may be a milestone outside of Apple, but not inside Apple.

At any rate, the fact phone systems are still tied to Telcos makes this a nice academic project to add one more piece of hardware able to boot Linux or any other OS for that matter.

I'd rather work hard at developing applications for the platform that slowly will be accessible over this exercise.
post #44 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Regarding your Leopard need storage, I have been playing around installing leopard on a FW drive I have laying around. I have 10.5.5 down to 6.5 GB. Of course, no printer drivers and one language with PPC architecture removed from Applications when possible via XSlimmer. I tell you, that is not bad for a fully functioning OS in size. I was surprised I was able to get it down to that size with a custom install and one click of an application.

I imagine Snow Leopard may add reductions on top of this.

A lot of the problems with the preinstalled apps are Apple's media apps. Audio loops for Garage Band and themes for iPhoto and iDVD consume many gigs of space. Final Cut Express and Studio can make that figure explode.
post #45 of 79
On second thought, I would really be impressed if these guys could get Mac OS Nine to run on the iPhone.


THAT would be very helpful to end users.
post #46 of 79
It's not clear to me that the XNU Kernel is in anyway technically deficient or inferior to the Linux Kernel?
post #47 of 79
iPhone currently has over 13,000 web/native apps. I wonder if developers will be so enthralled by Android to accomplish this in the same amount of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

They already are. Opera Browser for a 2nd browswer on Android greeted with open arms. That's the benefit of the Android.

The developers aren't limited by Apples day to day rule changes and Steve's paranoid NDA.

*End - No sarcasm meant.
post #48 of 79
Because it could be the ultimate hand-held PC. I'd like one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherperson View Post

Why would anyone want to run linux on an iPhone? What an unbelievable waste of time and effort.
I got nothin'.
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I got nothin'.
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post #49 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

It's not clear to me that the XNU Kernel is in anyway technically deficient or inferior to the Linux Kernel?

It's not on both counts.
post #50 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh Blah Dee Blah Dah View Post

Running Linux on an iPhone is like buying a brand new Ferrari, removing the engine, and installing a Yugo engine.

You have the above backwards, Linux would be a far more powerful OS. The primary reason being Apple going to great lengths to castrate Mobile OS.
Quote:
It will work, it will give satisfaction of being able to do it, but it won't impress that many people.

It doesn't have to. All it needs to do is offer up features Mobile OS doesn't to people that could use such

Quote:
Your time is better spent developing iPhone applications. The APP store will distribute them worldwide.

You're putting Linux on the iPhone? Don't quit your day-job.

Well that could be said for most app store developers. To be honest though I still believe thereis a place for Linux on the small Devices market. IPhone simply provides a platform to test real world code. You don't need great expectations to see value in the project.


Dave
post #51 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

It's not clear to me that the XNU Kernel is in anyway technically deficient or inferior to the Linux Kernel?

While I could argue the point as to which is better for what there is little point in that. The problem isn't so much the kernel as it is what Apple is delivering on iPhone. Or maybe more exactly what they aren't. There is little indication that Apple is deveolping Mobile OS in the right direction.

Look at it this way all OSes evolve overtime, but in the case of iPhone it looks like Apple has a lot of artificial walls in place to restrict that evolution. One big question in my mind is where is the BluTooth stack? Be it the various audio profiles, the profile for async or whatever.

Install Linux and eventually all the hardware will be supported on IPhone. Simply put that isn't the case right now with IPhone. Further it looks like the lack of hardware support is on purpose which makes one wonder why Apple isn't feeding the baby. Starve the child and it will die early.

That is hardware support then we have Apples stubborness with respect to interperters. This one bugs me as it implies a lot of development time for apps that don't need it or can't justify the time. Of course this flies in the face of App store distribution but frankly screw the idea that only one form of app and delivery is acceptable. What this means in a nut shell is this where is Python on iPhone.

I bring up python as a developer, that doesn't see XCode and Objective C as being the best solution for every task that somebody might do on iPhone.

Dave
post #52 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Just because you think it is a waste of time should not negate the eff
It's easy for you to sit on your high-chair and criticize the effort of other people.

It's "high horse". Someone sitting in a high chair is too young to be criticizing anyone because they can't read, or likely, talk.
post #53 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH View Post

hehe. I pity my wife too. But just coz she is stuck with me. Not because I want her to be something she is not. All people are imperfect (sadly including me). I was really referring to purchased things. I do think I should be able to purchase things and expect certain things.

To a certain extent you are correct (though I don't know about your wife).

But your solution is wrong. Changing the OS for another to just get one or two features isn't really useful. The comment about getting the Android phone does make more sense, or for that matter, any other phone that gives you that feature or two.

Because your solution tells us that there is so little about the iPhone OS that you like, that you would rather just replace it altogether with another.

Of course, the Android OS couldn't take advantage of the multitouch screen and other hardware features, such as the accelerated Open GL the iPhone has.

You would be giving up far more than you gained.

Which is why I can only think that your solution was really meant to be tongue in cheek.
post #54 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

You have the above backwards, Linux would be a far more powerful OS. The primary reason being Apple going to great lengths to castrate Mobile OS.

It doesn't have to. All it needs to do is offer up features Mobile OS doesn't to people that could use such



Well that could be said for most app store developers. To be honest though I still believe thereis a place for Linux on the small Devices market. IPhone simply provides a platform to test real world code. You don't need great expectations to see value in the project.


Dave

Linux, or more accurately, a Linux distro, wouldn't be more powerful, because you are limited by the hardware in the phone.

The fact that Apple does limit some programs doesn't mean that Linux would get better ones.

Some of the work that Apple did to get certain features such as multitouch working are so heavily covered by patents, that no Linux distro could emulate them in a useful way.

Other features are covered by patents and licensing agreements with other companies. Linux distro groups usually frown upon using, and paying licensing fees to anyone, which is why they are always complaining about not having many media players and formats available to them.

While I think this is an interesting project, and I will be interested in seeing how far they can get with it before they hit that wall of patents and licensing agreements, it's not something that will be useful.
post #55 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

While I could argue the point as to which is better for what there is little point in that. The problem isn't so much the kernel as it is what Apple is delivering on iPhone. Or maybe more exactly what they aren't. There is little indication that Apple is deveolping Mobile OS in the right direction.

Look at it this way all OSes evolve overtime, but in the case of iPhone it looks like Apple has a lot of artificial walls in place to restrict that evolution. One big question in my mind is where is the BluTooth stack? Be it the various audio profiles, the profile for async or whatever.

Install Linux and eventually all the hardware will be supported on IPhone. Simply put that isn't the case right now with IPhone. Further it looks like the lack of hardware support is on purpose which makes one wonder why Apple isn't feeding the baby. Starve the child and it will die early.

That is hardware support then we have Apples stubborness with respect to interperters. This one bugs me as it implies a lot of development time for apps that don't need it or can't justify the time. Of course this flies in the face of App store distribution but frankly screw the idea that only one form of app and delivery is acceptable. What this means in a nut shell is this where is Python on iPhone.

I bring up python as a developer, that doesn't see XCode and Objective C as being the best solution for every task that somebody might do on iPhone.

Dave

I can't agree with you on this. You think Apple is taking this in the wrong direction, but sales will determine that. That is the ultimate arbiter.

Also don't forget that this is still a young system. You don't know what Apple has planned for it in the future. It's very possible that ver 3 will have everything everyone here wants.

Surely, you aren't saying that MS, RIM, Palm, and Nokia and Symbian are all going in the right direction?

I could point out major deficiencies in all of those systems that outrank those in Apple.

Generally, the features in the iPhone OS aren't of a nature that can't be added later. Some others, such as Win Mobile, Palm, and Symbian, (I'm not as familiar with RIMS, though I've seen some artificial limits written of) are limited by the concept of the OS itself, and would have to be written from the ground up to fix it.

Apple often changes their mind about what to allow developers and users. They have already made more than one turnaround here for the iPhone, and I expect more.

It just looks to me as though they are going slowly, without rushing into adding too much at once. It's only ver 2 after all. For cut and paste, for instance, Win Mobile didn't get that until ver 3 either.

I think it's too early to tell where Apple is actually taking this long term. Next year some time, when ver 3 comes out, and new hardware, we will have a much better idea.
post #56 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

To a certain extent you are correct (though I don't know about your wife).

But your solution is wrong. Changing the OS for another to just get one or two features isn't really useful. The comment about getting the Android phone does make more sense, or for that matter, any other phone that gives you that feature or two.

Because your solution tells us that there is so little about the iPhone OS that you like, that you would rather just replace it altogether with another.

Of course, the Android OS couldn't take advantage of the multitouch screen and other hardware features, such as the accelerated Open GL the iPhone has.

You would be giving up far more than you gained.

Which is why I can only think that your solution was really meant to be tongue in cheek.

Spot on. Of course it was tongue and cheek. Seems it got a lot of people razed up though. Can't believe how many people take this sort of stuff so serious.
post #57 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH View Post

Spot on. Of course it was tongue and cheek. Seems it got a lot of people razed up though. Can't believe how many people take this sort of stuff so serious.

Yes, well, if you go to the RED (Video camera manufacturer) forums, you will find far worse. In fact, the owner of the company will harass you himself! How's that for service?
post #58 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A milestone has been reached in iPhone firmware modification on Friday with the first alternative operating system for the hardware, Linux, now running on the device.

oh boy... I bet the crack team was working hard. They ported Linux to a system that is already running darwin aka freeBSD? and for a CPU core and video chipset that has long had Linux support?

Wow. I'm Impressed. Next we'll see them port OPIE, GPE, and/or Familiar.

Oh wait... no we won't because these folks apparently like to reinvent to wheel.

/ sorry.. I'm in a grumpy mood today. Never have seen the point of hacking the iPhone. If you want android, I'm sure there will be a touch enabled android phone coming up real soon now.
//Just don't think you'll get away with VOIP calls and "unlimited data"
post #59 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH View Post

You are a funny guy. Not happy until I have everything precisely my way? That is just funny. Of course I am not happy until I have everything the way I want it. Are you telling me that you don't mind it when things are not the way you want it. I can see you at McDonalds. "Can I have a Big Mac"."Yes Sir two cheese burgers coming your way". "Thankyou". lol

But back to the iPhone. It is a good product. But even good products can be improved on. Since the iPhone has bluetooth built in I just want my Bluetooth un-crippled.

Maybe I threaten your status quo life. Sorry for that.

Ditto!
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post #60 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Doesn't that depend a bit on what you see iPhone as. If it is nothing more than a phone than certainly it could be left as is from the factory, that includes downloadable and installable apps. However if you see iPhone as a micro computer that also has a cell phone built in then you take is a bit different.

The big problem with iPhone OS is that either Apple is having trouble evolving it to what it should be or has a very narrow view of what the device should be able to do. To be honest i think iPhones current software suite is a result of both issues. To put it mildly Apple hasn't been able to meet their own developmental goals on the device. Further it is also obvious that people at Apple have this concept in their minds as to what iPhone should do, a vision that obviously doesn't jive with what many users would want form the device.

From the standpoint of somebody trying to exploit the platform hardware there simply aren't a lot of good choices out there. Linux quickly rises to the top of the heap. Oh and by the way I doubt a real hacker is going to get too excited about Android. Ideally what we would see on an iPhone version of Linux is a complete replacement for X optimized in a way similar to what is currently done on the iPhone. That is a very light weight and speedy screen drive that doesn't have the overhead of X. Of course that amy be looking at the problem through graying glasses, some don't consider X to be a big problem. User space is but there are several options there.

Dave

I suppose, and I certainly don't mean to judge and denigrate the people doing the work. If we put a stop to every effort which at first seemed like a waste of time we'd truly be shooting ourselves in the foot. Who am I to judge where these efforts might lead. BUT... from where I sit right now -it is very hard to get enthusiastic about Linux on the iPhone. I mean, is there a goal in a broader sense or is that it? Linux on the iPhone.
post #61 of 79
Well, the point of this forum is to make comments and opinions with which to agree or disagree.

Its disingenuous to make a strong comment. Then turn and say it should be obvious your comment should not have been taken seriously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH View Post

Spot on. Of course it was tongue and cheek. Seems it got a lot of people razed up though. Can't believe how many people take this sort of stuff so serious.
post #62 of 79
RED is absolutely the worst forum I have ever seen. Its the place you go to for all the wrong information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, well, if you go to the RED (Video camera manufacturer) forums, you will find far worse. In fact, the owner of the company will harass you himself! How's that for service?
post #63 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I suppose, and I certainly don't mean to judge and denigrate the people doing the work. If we put a stop to every effort which at first seemed like a waste of time we'd truly be shooting ourselves in the foot. Who am I to judge where these efforts might lead. BUT... from where I sit right now -it is very hard to get enthusiastic about Linux on the iPhone. I mean, is there a goal in a broader sense or is that it? Linux on the iPhone.

Realistically?

All these attempts are really just a matter of pride.

You know, when you finish something that you weren't sure you could do?

A bit of hubris as well.

It will never become useful on the iPhone. It's doubtful if they could actually get the phone to even work as a phone.

Apple, with all its knowledge of the phone and their own OS, customized to work properly on it, and with all the resources they can afford to spend on doing it, can't get it all done over a period of several years.

It would be much better if these guys concentrated on the iTouch instead, and left the phone itself alone. That would be a much simpler project, and could even have a small possibility of working in some limited, but useful, fashion.
post #64 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

oh boy... I bet the crack team was working hard. They ported Linux to a system that is already running darwin aka freeBSD? and for a CPU core and video chipset that has long had Linux support?

Wow. I'm Impressed. Next we'll see them port OPIE, GPE, and/or Familiar.

Oh wait... no we won't because these folks apparently like to reinvent to wheel.

/ sorry.. I'm in a grumpy mood today. Never have seen the point of hacking the iPhone. If you want android, I'm sure there will be a touch enabled android phone coming up real soon now.
//Just don't think you'll get away with VOIP calls and "unlimited data"

Exactly and they didn't like my remarks about w/o heavy funding by Corporate America, Linux would still be in it's infancy.

I use linux daily (> 10 hrs per day) but to deny the realities of where the heavy lifting comes from is pure hypocrisy.
post #65 of 79
More power to them if they've gotten it to work.

But I don't really see much benefit out of this personally. The best part about the iPhone IMO is the software, not the hardware. And if I don't want the iPhone OS, I'd probably end up just choosing another phone rather than hoping to replace the OS.
post #66 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH View Post

ut back to the iPhone. It is a good product. But even good products can be improved on. Since the iPhone has bluetooth built in I just want my Bluetooth un-crippled.

I don't need Bluetooth to sync anything on my iPhone since MobileMe takes care of that. Bookmarks, Email, Contacts, Calendar...does it automatically. I don't need to be near my Mac to have it done either. The iPhone doesn't really need syncing by Bluetooth when it is already done automatically without Bluetooth.
post #67 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

I don't need Bluetooth to sync anything on my iPhone since MobileMe takes care of that. Bookmarks, Email, Contacts, Calendar...does it automatically. I don't need to be near my Mac to have it done either. The iPhone doesn't really need syncing by Bluetooth when it is already done automatically without Bluetooth.

I don't understand the big deal some make about BT syncing. It's much slower than syncing over USB 2, esp, when you have several pages of programs, as I have, that you've updated over the air and need to be synced to the computer.

After all, you have to plug it in to recharge anyway.
post #68 of 79
Having Linux running on the iPhone is a good thing, it means that the device will remain useful for longer and it may find new uses besides what the device maker decides.

I don't think jailbreak is a great solution on several levels. Linux on iPhone looks better!
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post #69 of 79
Despite the obvious answer of "because we can", why?
post #70 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Exactly and they didn't like my remarks about w/o heavy funding by Corporate America, Linux would still be in it's infancy.

I use linux daily (> 10 hrs per day) but to deny the realities of where the heavy lifting comes from is pure hypocrisy.

Because it flies in the face of their belief system. Without IBM, HP, etc., Linux would look a lot like FreeBSD.
post #71 of 79
I understand if a bunch of hackers want to give themselves a name like "the iPhone dev team!", but would it be too much to ask that AppleInsider make it clear these jokers are not, in fact, the iPhone development team?
post #72 of 79
post #73 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Seriously, the entire iPhone Dev Team needs to go out and get f*cking laid. I'm not even joking.

If any of these guys COULD get laid, they wouldn't be spending all there time doing this.
post #74 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jido View Post

Having Linux running on the iPhone is a good thing, it means that the device will remain useful for longer and it may find new uses besides what the device maker decides.

I don't think jailbreak is a great solution on several levels. Linux on iPhone looks better!

What a joke.
Linux is going to do for the iPhone, what it did for desktops.
Which is nothing....
post #75 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by floccus View Post

Man, I pity whoever you end up getting married to, although with an attitude like that odd are good it will never happen.

As for the "news"... so, they loaded a linux kernel and now have an iPhone running linux that is completely useless since none of the control inputs have working drivers. I commend the technical achievement of getting the kernel on, but this doesn't mean there is a second useable OS. And since Android isn't multi-touch (yet, as far as I know) you'd still be losing a lot of functionality.


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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #76 of 79
I'm not sure if this has been posted yet (I haven't read the whole thread), but this article is extremely inaccurate, starting with the headline. The iPhone Dev Team did not boot Linux on the iPhone, a separate team of developers (although a couple are also part of the iPhone dev team, as noted by planetbeing himself) is responsible for this. Please fix this inaccuracy...
post #77 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Linux would be a far more powerful OS. The primary reason being Apple going to great lengths to castrate Mobile OS.

Source? Other than "Uh, my ass."
post #78 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jido View Post

Having Linux running on the iPhone is a good thing, it means that the device will remain useful for longer and it may find new uses besides what the device maker decides.

I don't think jailbreak is a great solution on several levels. Linux on iPhone looks better!

Pretty much useless.
post #79 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post

Does Android have copy & paste?

Ouch, that hurts! LOL -- I had forgotten that copy/paste doesn't exist on iPhone -- one of the big limitations I just live with now, resigned and cynical. Another is the lack of To-Do support. Because I mean, hey, who would want to put a to-do list on a mobile smart phone? Mail.app on the OS X has To-Do support, but I cannot bring my desktop to a meeting or to Home Depot to help me track my to-do list. Grr.
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