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Apple introduces iWork '09, iWork.com - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

At $79 for the suite, I don't believe these apps are trying to come anywhere close to Quark/Framemaker or InDesign. As for the LaTeX apps, I doubt many users even have X11 installed on their machines, much less the interest in creating documents formatted with tags. Back in the old SVR3 days I created many of my college reports formatted in nroff and troff. That doesn't mean I want to go back to those days

For me, these apps do pretty much everything I need, more easily, with more elegance, and for less than I can do with MS Office and thus iWork has replaced Office on my personal machine. At work I use NeoOffice when I have to do something iWork doesn't do, but I still (greatly) prefer the interface in iWork.

You don't need X11 for LaTeX. It's hard to imagine producing any mathematical document with anything but TeX unless you are thinking of just basic equations. While I quite understand your aversion to troff ( nightmares....) you might want to have a look at LyX. It's a very good front-end to LaTeX and it's free and doesn't require X11.

The addition of MathType 6 support to pages is good news. Hopefully they will get the baseline stuff right and support drag and drop. Nisus is wonderful for that and makes a perfect companion to MathType.

philip
post #42 of 58
I hope that these new versions finally support RTL languages properly! It is a nightmare in iWork 08 and previous... MS make it so easy in their Windows Office suite that it aways made me wonder why Apple was incapable of providing proper RTL language support in the iWork suite, especially when you know that this is supported at the OS level.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

You don't need X11 for LaTeX. It's hard to imagine producing any mathematical document with anything but TeX unless you are thinking of just basic equations. While I quite understand your aversion to troff ( nightmares....) you might want to have a look at LyX. It's a very good front-end to LaTeX and it's free and doesn't require X11.

The addition of MathType 6 support to pages is good news. Hopefully they will get the baseline stuff right and support drag and drop. Nisus is wonderful for that and makes a perfect companion to MathType.

philip

Don't forget TeXShop:

http://www.uoregon.edu/~koch/texshop/

Secondly, why would anyone touch NeoOffice [grandparent poster] when OpenOffice3.0.1 for Cocoa is out and soon 3.1 with Applescript?
post #44 of 58
Is it just me or is anyone else a little disappointed by iWork? I was hoping they would come out with something great and lead the way with an online office app. But instead all it does is let other people add comments to your documents! So effectively it replaces emailing the document! Although it doesn't quite replace emailing the document as if you emailed it they could add comments and even make changes to the document.

If this comes out as a paid for service it will be insane, not when you compare it to other packages already available.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

The answer to your first question is "no". It is the limitations of PowerPoint that prevent this. Micro$ucks needs to add the support - not Apple.

And, iWork (or iLife) for $79 is a hella deal vs. $500 for a full version of Office.

Thanks for the info. I won't be buying it though. I really don't see the advantage. I can get MS Office for $13 from school, but MS Office 2007 has no Visual Basic support which is ridiculous. $79 dollars may not be much to you, but as a poor graduate student...money is a wee bit tight for me. I guess I'll have to continue using my fiance's PC for presentation animation and use Word 2004 with EndNoteX. I just wish I could use my laptop for all my presentations. My life would be so much easier. Oh well.
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyranay View Post

Thanks for the info. I won't be buying it though. I really don't see the advantage. I can get MS Office for $13 from school, but MS Office 2007 has no Visual Basic support which is ridiculous. $79 dollars may not be much to you, but as a poor graduate student...money is a wee bit tight for me. I guess I'll have to continue using my fiance's PC for presentation animation and use Word 2004 with EndNoteX. I just wish I could use my laptop for all my presentations. My life would be so much easier. Oh well.

The $71 it would cost you for iWork would probably pay for itself in the time you save not dickering around with multiple laptops.
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post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

The $71 it would cost you for iWork would probably pay for itself in the time you save not dickering around with multiple laptops.

I agree. We ran a quick test last year on two new workers at a friend's office who did not have any real computer experience: one, aged 35 and a cell-phone fanatic, on a PC with Word with a certified Word instructor in the office to help out, the other, aged 67, on a Mac with Pages, and a Mac user accessible by phone. The next day, the latter one had created her own newsletter, complete with photos edited in iPhoto, tables from Numbers and even tossed in a Keynote presentation; all with only an hour of assistance. As for the poor girl on the PC, the newsletter was created two days later, wasn't nearly as good, didn't come with the other goodies, and she had spent the better part of two days sitting with the expert. The office switched to Macs a few days later and ditched Microshaft Office for good. The entire staff was retrained in under a day.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Is it just me or is anyone else a little disappointed by iWork? I was hoping they would come out with something great and lead the way with an online office app. But instead all it does is let other people add comments to your documents! So effectively it replaces emailing the document! Although it doesn't quite replace emailing the document as if you emailed it they could add comments and even make changes to the document.

If this comes out as a paid for service it will be insane, not when you compare it to other packages already available.

I can't argue that it's not a full-blown online app, but I definitely do not agree with your comparison to emailing an app. First of all, they can download the document and make changes and comments, so on their end it is definitely at least as useful as email. In addition to that, you simply make a single click and it is available in any format to them, whereas with email you have to manually convert to a particular format that they like and then email. The point is that it DOES replace emailing the document with something that is MUCH better.

Finally, and most importantly, people who don't have pages (in which case you might worry about translation of your documents to the other formats correctly) can leave you comments that are automatically synced back to your computer.

An online office app it is not, but what it is a godsend for people in unaccomodating, all-windows environments (as well as being damn-useful for everyone else, also). This single feature (plus to some extent the equation-editing, bibliography, and hopefully some kind of solution for equation numbering) will allow me to switch to pages for my research papers.

Oh and by the way, coming out with an online office app would not be "leading the way," everyone and their grandmothers are doing that or talking about doing that these days. Apple, thank God, is not just blindly following this fad, which is frankly kind of ridiculous, given the power that is available on individual computers these days. Instead, they are offering the one advantage of web apps- availability from anywhere- without all of the kludge.
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelash View Post

Finally, and most importantly, people who don't have pages (in which case you might worry about translation of your documents to the other formats correctly) can leave you comments that are automatically synced back to your computer.

I've been playing around with iWork-com today but it does not (yet) automatically sync back comments yet, you have to redownload the pages file for that.

What it would need to become really usefull for me would be:
  • An option to automatically upload any changes you make locally to the web-version
  • Basic editing functionality which tracks changes besides just comments
  • Automatic sync-back of the comments and changes to the local version on your Mac
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

You don't need X11 for LaTeX. It's hard to imagine producing any mathematical document with anything but TeX unless you are thinking of just basic equations. While I quite understand your aversion to troff ( nightmares....) you might want to have a look at LyX. It's a very good front-end to LaTeX and it's free and doesn't require X11.

Curious - the first app I googled in your list appeared to be running as a X11 app. Maybe I was mistaken. I'll take a look, 'cause I'm always interested in finding new ways of doing things, but I am (for the most part) pretty happy using Pages as my full-time WP these days. It's got most of what I want, and is very easy to use (aka, it's not Word )
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch pear View Post

I've been playing around with iWork-com today but it does not (yet) automatically sync back comments yet, you have to redownload the pages file for that.

Am I the only one missing the point of this? I already create documents in Pages and send them out in PDF format. PDF supports annotations. Not sure why iWork-com is needed for this (particularly when it becomes a paid service in the future), unless this is a stepping stone to creating an online service that allows document modification...
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelash View Post

I can't argue that it's not a full-blown online app, but I definitely do not agree with your comparison to emailing an app. First of all, they can download the document and make changes and comments, so on their end it is definitely at least as useful as email. In addition to that, you simply make a single click and it is available in any format to them, whereas with email you have to manually convert to a particular format that they like and then email. The point is that it DOES replace emailing the document with something that is MUCH better.

Finally, and most importantly, people who don't have pages (in which case you might worry about translation of your documents to the other formats correctly) can leave you comments that are automatically synced back to your computer.

An online office app it is not, but what it is a godsend for people in unaccomodating, all-windows environments (as well as being damn-useful for everyone else, also). This single feature (plus to some extent the equation-editing, bibliography, and hopefully some kind of solution for equation numbering) will allow me to switch to pages for my research papers.

Oh and by the way, coming out with an online office app would not be "leading the way," everyone and their grandmothers are doing that or talking about doing that these days. Apple, thank God, is not just blindly following this fad, which is frankly kind of ridiculous, given the power that is available on individual computers these days. Instead, they are offering the one advantage of web apps- availability from anywhere- without all of the kludge.

None of that makes it a good idea to charge money for it, IMO. I'm not saying it isn't justified, because I'm sure it is; I'm just saying that nobody with two brain cells to rub together will start paying for it when it emerges from beta when there are superior alternatives available for free. This isn't the desktop office suite market, where nearly everybody pays ridiculous amounts of money for a product which has free equivalents just because it's what Microsoft told them to do. Unlike Windows and Office (and like Macs), people have to go out of their way and consciously make a choice in order to use online office tools, and where choice is introduced, iWork.com is instantly defeated on price.
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

The $71 it would cost you for iWork would probably pay for itself in the time you save not dickering around with multiple laptops.

Uh, Thanks. The University lecture halls don't support my Apple laptop so the animation (that would look really good) with Keynote would not work on the PC that is available to me for my presentations even if I converted it to .ppt. I have to do the animation on a PC with Powerpoint. Everything I do on my laptop. That's why I asked if the animation from Keynote '09 would convert to Powerpoint. If it doesn't (which is apparently doesn't), then there's absolutely no need for me to buy it. I don't waste money on software I don't need just because it's new and pretty.
post #54 of 58
How do they not support it? Any presentation I've ever used my lapotop for, you just plugged it into the projector and away you went.
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post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

How do they not support it? Any presentation I've ever used my lapotop for, you just plugged it into the projector and away you went.

I do not know why. We have multiple buildings, two newer ones and an old one. The projector in the new building works great and I can use my laptop Unfortunately, I give all my presentations in the old building and the projectors in the old building don't work with my laptop. I have tried multiple times and even had the IT guys look at the projector and try to get it to work but they can't. I give all my presentations in the old building. My laptop sees the projector, but the projector doesn't see the laptop. I know the laptop sees the projector b/c I have a small screen icon in my toolbar and I can see the projector listed under "Screens". But, the projector is all black. It really sucks. I wish it would work b/c it would save me a lot of trouble. I have to either email the presentation to myself or put it on a flash drive or something (usually I do both b/c I'm anal like that). I like Keynote TONS better than Powerpoint, but i have to convert everything to .ppt and it doesn't convert very well. So, what I started doing was making my presentation in Keynote, converting it to Powerpoint and then checking all the animation on my fiance's PC. I can't do the animation on my laptop b/c MS office for Mac doesn't have it. It's ridiculous. Sorry such a long post.
post #56 of 58
Its nice to see that they're finally bundling the OS upgrade, iWork, and iLife together, but I think they're missing a step here in a iLife/iWork bundle without the OS for those who have already upgraded to Leopard or had Leopard pre-installed on their Mac.
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Is it just me or is anyone else a little disappointed by iWork? I was hoping they would come out with something great and lead the way with an online office app. But instead all it does is let other people add comments to your documents! So effectively it replaces emailing the document! Although it doesn't quite replace emailing the document as if you emailed it they could add comments and even make changes to the document.

If this comes out as a paid for service it will be insane, not when you compare it to other packages already available.

Concerning the webapp centricism, it's just you. They are garbage. This approach is pragmatic, intelligent and extends via services the use the platform where it makes sense.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

Curious - the first app I googled in your list appeared to be running as a X11 app. Maybe I was mistaken. I'll take a look, 'cause I'm always interested in finding new ways of doing things, but I am (for the most part) pretty happy using Pages as my full-time WP these days. It's got most of what I want, and is very easy to use (aka, it's not Word )

LyX 1.6.1 (Very easy to learn w/o the need to know LaTeX)
ftp://ftp.lyx.org/pub/lyx/bin/1.6.1/...-Universal.dmg

LyX is built with Qt Frameworks:

Required:

Trolltech/Nokia Qt 4.4.3
ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qt/source/qt...urce-4.4.3.dmg

TeXShop 2.18: (Traditional LaTeX editor that isn't the WYSIWYM paradigm of LyX)
http://www.uoregon.edu/~koch/texshop/

TeXShop is included in the MacTeX TeXLive 2008 mpkg.

TeX/LaTeX packages:
http://www.tug.org/mactex/
http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/mac/m...acTeX.mpkg.zip (1.13 GB) Get it. It's required to run the applications and you'll be stunned at all the power of TeX/LaTeX/XeLaTeX.

http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/mac/m...MacTeXtras.zip (Optional 286MB of applications and more add-ons).

Optional:
Trolltech Qt 4.5 will offer both 32bit and 64bit Cocoa versions. It's currently in beta.
http://trolltech.com/developer/preview-qt-4.5
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