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Microsoft's ads doing damage to Apple: study - Page 5

post #161 of 179
Canwe at least not mentiin battery life???? Sure I can get 4-4.5 hours if I half the brightness, turn off Bluetooth and wireless and run inky pages or word. But use logic, final cut, photoshop, fireworks and your loooking at 2 hours, tops. Open a game and forget about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

Find a PC laptop with aluminum and glass shell, 1066 bus, wireless N, bluetooth 2.0, under 5lbs with a 5hr battery life. You can include plastic shelled units if you like but keep the specs the same.

Find a PC laptop under 3.2lbs that has a real CPU and is less than 1/2" thick CLOSED, then make your MBAir point.

Then you can make your point. You want a quality PC, buy a Mac. You want creaky plastic running 2 year old high end parts buy anything else.
post #162 of 179
I don't care about the ads. I just love my Macbook. It's coming from my experience using it.
post #163 of 179
OK, I am a mac-a-holic, but there comes a breaking point...

Hardware ripoffs are gonna kill apple

Like it or not, the truth is that I can get the same exact hardware as a $2500 macbook for about $1300 in a PC notebook, and the price is falling by the month...is OSx worth a $1200 premium? nope...I understand that Apple sells a premium product, but the high end laptop space is a joke on apples part right now, the god damned 15 inch Mac Book "pro" maxes out at 4 gigs of ram...4 fucking gigs? my 1.5 year old macbook that cost $1099 has the same limit, and I am maxing out 4gb...most PC notebooks in the $1200+ range support 8GB...so what the hell?

forgot to mention that many of those $1300-1500 laptops have blueray and HDMI, so no need to buy a $300 AV component for the once a month or so I want to watch a BD movie.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #164 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by podiki View Post

You're bashing Dell because of heat issues? Isn't that the number one issue with Apple laptops?

Little bit of a difference here. Dell has overheating problems because of shoddy construction. Apple has overheating problems because their chief designer has problems remembering a computer has to fit into his latest piece of art.
post #165 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Little bit of a difference here. Dell has overheating problems because of shoddy construction. Apple has overheating problems because their chief designer has problems remembering a computer has to fit into his latest piece of art.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #166 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

Advertising is usually misleading.

There is usually a little hyperbole.

But these Microsoft ads have been nothing but PURE BULLSHIT.

The HP v. MacBook type stuff, where they both have the same processor but the MacBook has 2GB of RAM and the HP 4GB of RAM, and the HP costs less.

As if that were all there was in the world!

1066MHz FSB (MacBook) v. 800MHz FSB (most HPs... STILL)
DDR3-1066 RAM (MacBook) v. DDR2-800 RAM (most HPs.... STILL)

What use is having the same processor if you cripple it?

Oh, and let us not forget that Vista is a freaking memory hog.

Never mind that all of these ads are focused on initial cost of the hardware and not cost over time, or additional software. Forget that Microsoft Office 2007 Home and Student will set you back $99, $129 or $149 depending on where you buy it from while iWork would set you back $40 with a new Mac. Home and Student includes Word, Excel and Powerpoint. iWork includes Pages, Numbers and Keynote. I may prefer Office '08 for Mac, but the average user doesn't need anything more than iWork provides.

Side thought: Why the heck does it cost the same to get the Mac version of Home and Student when it includes more? You see the Windows version again only has Word, Excel and Powerpoint but the Mac version has Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Entourage.

What about the cost of service?
The ease of service?
The cost of virus software?
Media software? Nero and Photoshop Elements together is the closest to replicating iLife, that's $49 for Nero and and $85.99 for Photoshop Elements off Newegg.

That's just a few examples.

My God in heaven, do people not think?

Good points. Both Apple and Microsoft expect you to buy a new machine once every four years. They learned that trick from GM. GM has suppressed many advanced technologies over the years. (The electric car is one example). I suspect that Apple and Microsoft are holding a lot of technology back. How would you like to spend your time during the next four years? Is spending $2500 for an iMac instead of $1200 for a comparable Dell PC really worth it. I understand you get what you pay for, but the markup on hardware for a Mac is way too high. End result: Buy a new PC or Mac four years later.

Government agencies and nonprofit organizations often do not consider hidden, ongoing costs. They look at price per unit. They have an annual budget for computers, and every penny in that budget must be spent by the end of the fiscal year. No money can be rolled over into the next fiscal year. For example, if 100 machines at a public university are scheduled to be replaced once every four years, it would be difficult to explain to upper management that we need to pay hundreds of dollars more per machine and buy fewer machines. Hey Apple: Conquer the universities (including the server rooms), and you will conquer the world.

I am not sure why Apple bothers with iWork when it is just as easy to buy MS Office for MacIntosh. Can anyone explain this. The fact that so many software vendors offer both PC and Mac versions is not a selling point for Apple. I can hear it now: "I can buy a cheap PC and run the same software that is available on a Mac."

Apple should spend more time advertising why iLife and other "Apple only" products are better than competitors products. By the way, why doesn't Apple release an "Exchange killer." I hate Exchange, and I am forced to use Entourage on my Mac to connect to the Exchange server at work. I am eager to leave the Microsoft world......
post #167 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post

I am not sure why Apple bothers with iWork when it is just as easy to buy MS Office for MacIntosh. Can anyone explain this. The fact that so many software vendors offer both PC and Mac versions is not a selling point for Apple. I can hear it now: "I can buy a cheap PC and run the same software that is available on a Mac.

iWorks main focus on sales seem to be on consumer uses at this point. It cant do everything that Word and Excel can do, but it can do most of the things that the average user can do. MS Office suite of apps are very complex to use and navigate in comparison, and MS has a lot more apps in the suite than Apple offers. Its a trade off and depending on your usage and the person they both have their pros and cons.wer.

Powerpoint vs. Keynote seems to be a different story. I cant be sure, but it looks like Jobs wanted to leverage their expertise in the multi-media field to make a better" presentation app for the Mac instead of using MS Powerpoint. Id wager that it was used first at Keynotes, Special Events and other presentations before Apple had made it into a decent enough app for their customers.

Note: Apple used to install the Office for Mac Test Drive, then both Office and iWork, and now they dont include either one of them. If you want iWork you can grab the trial from their website.

Quote:
Apple should spend more time advertising why iLife and other "Apple only" products are better than competitors products. By the way, why doesn't Apple release an "Exchange killer." I hate Exchange, and I am forced to use Entourage on my Mac to connect to the Exchange server at work. I am eager to leave the Microsoft world......

Snow Leopard will have Active Sync in Mail, which may be good enough for many, but Mail is still a consumer app without the features that I think is needed to be a replacement for Exchange.

One thing I love about Outlook is the built in calendaring. While Mail has their iCal and AddressBook tie into each other, I still have to open up another app or use some non-userfriendly windowing to see contacts. I understand their need to keep it simple, but at least give us power users the open to choose the calendar and address book from within the Mail app.
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post #168 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Little bit of a difference here. Dell has overheating problems because of shoddy construction. Apple has overheating problems because their chief designer has problems remembering a computer has to fit into his latest piece of art.

So basically, his latest piece of art is pretty shoddy when it comes to housing a computer..?
post #169 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

True, but you gotta start somewhere...not that it's make any difference.

but that said...there does appear to be a massive rise over the last year in the amount of bloggers and forum posters who seem intent on convincing me ( apple fanboy I admit) that MS are not the bad guys, that 'windows 7 really is good' and that Apple aren't as peachy as I would like to think they are (which narcs me no end cos I have a great Apple experience)

It just get's seriously tedious cos really I don't give a shit about MS or their products but I find people endlessly stuffing this crap down APPLE forums. I mean I have NEVER once EVER been on a MS forum and wacked off about how great Apple is...but for some reason MS sympathizers feel the need to litter every Apple forum with pro-MS 'contra' point of view...I really don't need it...In many ways I'd prefer Apple sites not to list these Microsoft articles..but I guess they are good for ratings...

Again, it just seems to me that a bad smell follows anything MS related - where-ever it goes - and that's even in Apple forums...

Well, I did came across some Mac guys posting in PC forums... but not as many as PC people "poisoning" Mac forums. Not being numerous as PC folk, it is much harder task for Mac users to be present everywhere

I did see some great efforts, though. There's a guy called Pirks very active in Anandtech.com forums. He is one against many, but holding his ground remarkably well.
post #170 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

True, but you gotta start somewhere...not that it's make any difference.

but that said...there does appear to be a massive rise over the last year in the amount of bloggers and forum posters who seem intent on convincing me ( apple fanboy I admit) that MS are not the bad guys, that 'windows 7 really is good' and that Apple aren't as peachy as I would like to think they are (which narcs me no end cos I have a great Apple experience)

It just get's seriously tedious cos really I don't give a shit about MS or their products but I find people endlessly stuffing this crap down APPLE forums. I mean I have NEVER once EVER been on a MS forum and wacked off about how great Apple is...but for some reason MS sympathizers feel the need to litter every Apple forum with pro-MS 'contra' point of view...I really don't need it...In many ways I'd prefer Apple sites not to list these Microsoft articles..but I guess they are good for ratings...

Again, it just seems to me that a bad smell follows anything MS related - where-ever it goes - and that's even in Apple forums...


yes yes and yes
great post
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post #171 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

yes yes and yes
great post

I also wanted to add, while OS X rocks and XP leaves very little to be desired for the term, "experience", that I have been playing with Windows 7. We all know that IT love windows 7 and that they plan on upgrading as soon as it's out, this means, Windows 7 in all offices, which then means all the workers use it.

Now, compared to XP, Win 7 is a great experience and even has a few things I would like to see on the MAC, while at the same time, users can download a program called switcher, that acts just like OSX Expose. Just saying.

The experience is leaps and bounds above XP and I think this alone is going to sway many, many users. As a result, I think we will finally see the headless desktop midrange computer, perhaps 4 cores selling below $1400.

We'll see.
post #172 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

I've always thought Apple computers were more expensive, but it doesn't stop me from buying them.

I think that sums it up.
post #173 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

I also wanted to add, while OS X rocks and XP leaves very little to be desired for the term, "experience", that I have been playing with Windows 7. We all know that IT love windows 7 and that they plan on upgrading as soon as it's out, this means, Windows 7 in all offices, which then means all the workers use it.

Now, compared to XP, Win 7 is a great experience and even has a few things I would like to see on the MAC, while at the same time, users can download a program called switcher, that acts just like OSX Expose. Just saying.

The experience is leaps and bounds above XP and I think this alone is going to sway many, many users. As a result, I think we will finally see the headless desktop midrange computer, perhaps 4 cores selling below $1400.

We'll see.

Good luck with win7. What does headless mean ?
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beatles
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post #174 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Good luck with win7. What does headless mean ?

In this case, headless refers to a computer without any built-in input or output devices, like an attached monitor, keyboard or mouse. Apple only makes two headless Macs; the Mac mini and Mac Pro.

This often leads to contention regarding the lack of a mid-range Mac that uses non-server/workstation components nor notebook-grade components that falls somewhere between the Mac Pro and Mac mini.
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post #175 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

Advertising is usually misleading.

There is usually a little hyperbole.

But these Microsoft ads have been nothing but PURE BULLSHIT.

The HP v. MacBook type stuff, where they both have the same processor but the MacBook has 2GB of RAM and the HP 4GB of RAM, and the HP costs less.

As if that were all there was in the world!

1066MHz FSB (MacBook) v. 800MHz FSB (most HPs... STILL)
DDR3-1066 RAM (MacBook) v. DDR2-800 RAM (most HPs.... STILL)

What use is having the same processor if you cripple it?

It was proven (and presented around here) numerous times that DDR3 1066 is virtually the same speed as DDR2 800. Only platform gaining any advantage from DDR3 is Intel i7.

Thus C2D processor in HP, memory wise, is not crippled at all. Nor is CPU in Mac blessed with DDR3.

Quote:
Oh, and let us not forget that Vista is a freaking memory hog.

Vista is more memory hungry than XP, true. However, I had no problems playing latest games, editing my .NEF files in Lightroom etc. on my previous desktop with 2GB of RAM and Vista Business. With 4GB of RAM, memory argument does not exist any more, and no matter how much leaner OSX is, doubling RAM will leave you with significantly more memory for data and applications - even with Vista.

Quote:
Never mind that all of these ads are focused on initial cost of the hardware and not cost over time, or additional software. Forget that Microsoft Office 2007 Home and Student will set you back $99, $129 or $149 depending on where you buy it from while iWork would set you back $40 with a new Mac. Home and Student includes Word, Excel and Powerpoint. iWork includes Pages, Numbers and Keynote. I may prefer Office '08 for Mac, but the average user doesn't need anything more than iWork provides.

Average user probably doesn't need presentation and spreadsheet software at all, to be honest; or, such user can do just fine with free Open Office. Others are usually tied with what they use at work/university, and even with compatibility on the file format level, having to learn only one word processor etc. is making life easier - even if it takes extra $40 from you. But I would expect you can get OEM Office in US for lower price than that..?

Quote:
Side thought: Why the heck does it cost the same to get the Mac version of Home and Student when it includes more? You see the Windows version again only has Word, Excel and Powerpoint but the Mac version has Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Entourage.

Good question. I'd say MS is trying to penetrate more into Mac market, thus more competitive offer. On Windows market, they are so strong they really don't have to try hard any more. Unfortunately.

Quote:
What about the cost of service?
The ease of service?
The cost of virus software?
Media software? Nero and Photoshop Elements together is the closest to replicating iLife, that's $49 for Nero and and $85.99 for Photoshop Elements off Newegg.

What do you consider under cost of service? Here in NZ, PCs have same warranty - and same options for extended warranty - as Macs. And spare parts/upgrades are usually cheaper.

Ease of service, well, that is hit and miss. We had some great experience with different support departments, and some awful as well (though a bit of yelling always helped). No idea how thing are working in Mac world, but if everyone is happy with support, good on them.

Cost of AV software is free for number of decent products. If you are not happy with it, commercial products like NOD32 will cost you $30 - 50 a year, maybe even a less if you subscribe for 2 or 3 years at once (at least here in NZ).

I haven't seen a PC with CD/DVD burner that didn't come with some version of Nero/Roxio. Photoshop Elements, to my knowledge, is not the same as iPhoto. Many photo organizing programs like Picasa are free. If someone requires Garage Band etc., there is additional value... but not much of it.

Quote:
That's just a few examples.

My God in heaven, do people not think?

What many people think - none of them, obviously, a Mac user - is that even with extra software functionality, price difference is too big. My example:

Here in NZ, iMac 24" 2.93GHz is NZ$4000, while top one is NZ$4800.

For approximately $4000, I got me custom built box with:

- Core 2 Quad 9550, 2.83GHz
- 8GB G-Skill DDR2 900MHz RAM
- Gigabyte P45-UD3R motherboard
- Lian Li aluminium case
- 650W Silverstone modular power
- 24" Samsung screen
- ATI 4890 1GB video card
- Sound Blaster X-fi Gamer audio
- Logitech cordless desktop LX 710 laser
- 1TB HDD

AND

HP 6730b laptop with C2D P8600 CPU with Montevina platform, 2GB RAM etc etc.

So... for the price of 1.93GHz 24" iMac I've got much better desktop and a bonus laptop - not too flashy, but decent and does much more than I really need on the go.

I'm using free Comodo antivirus/firewall on both, and already had all the other software I need.

And even if I needed to purchase more software - I could get equivalent of everything iMac comes with (and more) for the price of 3.06GHz iMac, and still end up with better desktop and a bonus laptop.

In my eyes, that is really hard to beat.

True not everyone will go for custom built desktop, but there is an option if you wish to do so.

The way I see it, lack of options is really the biggest problem Mac line is facing today (or second one, after high pricing).
post #176 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I surely didn't. But after an army of viruses, constant crashes, and the infamous blue screens of death, I learned quickly. I was literally reinstalling Windows a couple of times every week.

So basically all you did with your Pc was neverending installing of OS

That speaks more about your skill than about Windows. If true. But I'm betting you are exaggerating a bit. Or a byte. Likely Gigabyte
post #177 of 179
These commercials are like Cheveron producing a commercial for BMW bashing Mercedes Benz.

I don't get these commercials. What Microsoft product are they advertising?

In the most recent commercial they compared a 15.4" MacBook Pro to the 13.3" Dell XPS. Logically, a 15" model is going to be more expensive when compared to a 13" model.

I wonder how much business Apple does through Best Buy and if Apple could "strong arm" Best Buy into halting the production of these commercials in their stores.
post #178 of 179
No offense to the employees at MS, but still...

)(*&#%@*ing @#@#%ers *@#$%@& you Microsoft!
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post #179 of 179
Good to see their marketing dollars working for them. Heck, having 80% plus market share, they really cannot lose.

Hurting Apple here and there can only derive good to the consumers. The message on those ads are really true.
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