Why is it that these copycats never come up with their own ideas until Apple starts selling it. I guess that's new American revolution; "Copy from your competitor and see how many millions you can make your victims".
Actually, they aren't selling well, given volume/margins ratios. Dell is doing poorly and is about to give up its spot to Acer.
You're wasting your time with this teckstud dude. He is impervious. Scarily so.
You're right that Dell is a disaster, compared to Apple. Quite apart from the fact that Apple makes better products, here are some fun financial facts:
You're wasting your time with this teckstud dude. He is impervious. Scarily so.
You're right that Dell is a disaster, compared to Apple. Quite apart from the fact that Apple makes better products, here are some fun financial facts:
We're moving toward a place where everything is consolidated on one deivce, and that "one device" is getting better and better at all functions - phone, web, games, e-mail, online services, notifications, apps, games, music, etc.
To release a handheld that is supposed to be an "internet device" without phone functionality (when we already have an amazing "internet device" WITH phone functionality) is just silly.
Agreed, the last thing I want is another gadget to carry around, charge and keep track of!
I would like to see a BT keyboard for the iPhone that I could just keep in my car or brief case. Wait, what's this, I'm typing on Apple BT keyboard right now! WTF!
Seriously, as the previous poster stated....my iPhone has "almost" replaced my macBook.
There's zero chance that Apple would put keyboard/mouse software on a touch device.
Absolute zero.
That would set up all the wrong expectations and deliver a horrible user experience. Adding nominal touch support to a desktop OS and calling it done is the antithesis of how Apple operates.
The only possible problem in not putting a full desktop OS and software onto a hypothetical tablet is not having enough software support. But the SDK and App Store have proven that's no problem at all. It's actually a huge positive opportunity for Apple.
Soooo........ what does Dell bring to the table that others can't/don't?
It has the capacity and capability to actually make, distribute and support an Android-based iPod Touch knockoff and a willingness to accept razor-thin margins.
There is plenty of money to be made in the market segments that Apple chooses not to service.
There's zero chance that Apple would put keyboard/mouse software on a touch device.
Absolute zero.
That would set up all the wrong expectations and deliver a horrible user experience. Adding nominal touch support to a desktop OS and calling it done is the antithesis of how Apple operates.
The only possible problem in not putting a full desktop OS and software onto a hypothetical tablet is not having enough software support. But the SDK and App Store have proven that's no problem at all. It's actually a huge positive opportunity for Apple.
He obviously meant full OS - without keyboArd or mouse. It a megaTouch for godsake! i t will run everything- full featured.
It has the capacity and capability to actually make, distribute and support an Android-based iPod Touch knockoff and a willingness to accept razor-thin margins.
There is plenty of money to be made in the market segments that Apple chooses not to service.
Does Dell actually make its own products, or does it outsource the main manufacturing of it like everyone else does, and just does some assembly? Doesn't a company like HTC (with an Android product already) do the same thing? Also, if they wanted to, couldn't a Sony or an Acer do likewise?
Finally, won't all of them have to rely on wireless carriers anyway?
Aborted? Dell sold the Jukebox for awhile before killing it.
A device that needs an RF card would imply that I have two accounts with my wireless carrier.
as such devices become more popular you can expect alternative billing plans. If that is not the case now it still isn't a major problem.
Quote:
One for my phone and one for my internet device. So I'm essentially carrying around two independent client machines. If I send a message from one, then I need to keep that with me all the time to get the reply. They could potentially be kept in sync in "the cloud", but that seems an overly complicated solution.
I'm not at all sure where this idea cAme from but if thing are setup right there is no issue. In my case I use @mac.com and it works perfectly fine with my MBP and iPhone. They are kept in sync and I can reference mail on either machine.
I'm not sure if this is even considered cloud computing as mail has worked this way for a long time. That is why we have mail servers, it allows you to use the right client anywhere to catch your E-Mail. Worked great years ago when I use to travel a lot for work. I suppose one could look at E-Mail as one of the first cloud like apps.
Quote:
Also, putting more and more functionality into an iPhone-like device is less than optimal. For some (including me), the iPhone is at the same time too small and too big.
Putting more functionality in place does not imply a bigger device. What it does imply is fewer devices. This is a key point and is one of the reasons I'd like to see FM in the iPhone, it means one less device to keep track of.
Quote:
For an internet device I'd want a bigger screen. And as a phone it's too big to carry around everywhere I go. Sometimes all you want/need with you is your phone and the small, the better.
Funny I thought iPhone was to small as it is.
You are right about some things related to the Internet. Iphone is small for that at times. But it could also use flash at times. That doesn't stop me from using it very often for web stuff. Now given that iPhone needs to be larger to experience the web how about a fold out display. A clam shell would offer almost twice the display area.
Quote:
My ideal solution would be to have both a small, basic functionality phone, like today's standard non-smart flip phones and then an iPod touch type of device. The phone provides the gateway to the carrier's network, and the touch tethers to the phone with Bluetooth (or uses wi-fi when available) for it's internet connection. One connection, one phone number, one account with your carrier.
I still don't know what is up with the one account thing. Since one can do this with an IPhone and a MBP already what you are asking for is possible and already here.
What you are missing is that some will want that account anyways so as pointed out Apple needs alternatives.
Quote:
The phone itself would perhaps offer iPod shuffle or nano media functionality for listening to music at the gym etc. You could start with that and then add to it.
the problem is most of us like what comes on the current iPhone. Taking away features or adding a low end model won't lead to lots of sales. I just don't see the industry or consummers going backwards here.
Quote:
If the touch is a big enough screen, you get that. If/when Apple later releases a larger version, you can upgrade (without having to enter into a new contract with your carrier because you are still using the same phone).
you get the same carrier swap potential with a standardized RF card slot. Just move the modem from old to new.
Quote:
Or you could start with a touch and use it only on wi-fi like the current touch, but later get a phone to expand it's connectivity when your aren't near wi-fi.
The phone could stay in your pocket, backpack, purse, etc unless you are actually making a phone call. As long as it's within range for Bluetooth, you'll have a connection on your touch. And the Bluetooth connection should require less power than a cell phone connection, so the touch's battery should last longer and you can continue using it while the phone sits connected to a charger. And for the times you don't want to carry around the touch (or the larger version of it), you simply leave it at home and take your phone. And since all messages would come via the phone, you could send a message from the touch, leave it at home, but still view replies on the phone when they come in.
I think you are confused about how e-mail works.
Quote:
Sure, it's two devices, but would offer far more flexibility and options for users.
the only way I can see two devices being justified is if one had a dramatically larger device. Otherwise as much functionality as is possible needs to be crammed into the iPhone sized devices.
They outsource like everyone else. I wasn't trying to suggest they had some special ability to do it, just that they were positioned to actually produce something like the described product and make money from it. They're not a fly-by-night, they have room to make money and they don't mind making those small margins.
HTC is a phone company. Why would they spend resources building a non-phone 'android touch' when they could instead leverage their core competency making newer and better phones for the various providers and networks?
Sony could technically do it, but their corporate culture would never allow it. Watch their rumored phone show up with a CrossMediaBar UI and no general computing app support to speak of.
Acer could definitely do it, but third party distributors would cut into their margin in a 'beige box' price war with Dell. They also seem happy to stay in the 'doesn't fit in your pocket' segment.
And the primary 'point' of an iPod touch is not having a data plan contract. A 3G/WiMax non-phone pocket computer could certainly be made, but then you've got all the drawbacks of a cell data contract -and- you're carrying/charging two devices (none of the up-side).
I don't see how the marketing executives of these companies think that they can make a better portable pocket-sized device than Apple. Look at the facts - they're starting years late, Android software still doesn't match OSX portable, apps/usability. In terms of engineering, It's true apple haven't always used the best components on the market, but the thing is the software always runs well on the components they use. Hardware assembled, and software written by Apple in unison has made it work.
Dell should stick to what they're good at (not much).
that's what VZ said to Apple a few years ago
a lot of times starting late is an advantage because you don't have backward compatibility to worry about.
iPhone OS is on version 3 already and supports the original EDGE model. Kind of like Blackberry's OS supporting older models. Most of the games in the appstore are written for the 1st gen iphones and touches. nothing to show off the new 3G S's.
Few years down the road Apple is going to face the same choice with later versions of the OS. And it may be in the same position as RIM where they have 5 different OS versions for different generations of devices because you will have some people who don't mind keeping their iphone or Touch for years. I still have a gen 2 or 3 ipod even though i haven't used it for a long time. i might start syncing it just to send the telemetry back to Apple that i still use it
I wouldn't go so far as to call Apple's computers as being Dell-ish in design, but it seems to me that Apple has stalled on the design front lately. The Macbook Pro/Air unibody thing is interesting from an engineering standpoint, but as an aesthetic experience, it's not all that exciting.
They outsource like everyone else. I wasn't trying to suggest they had some special ability to do it, just that they were positioned to actually produce something like the described product and make money from it. They're not a fly-by-night, they have room to make money and they don't mind making those small margins.
HTC is a phone company. Why would they spend resources building a non-phone 'android touch' when they could instead leverage their core competency making newer and better phones for the various providers and networks?
Sony could technically do it, but their corporate culture would never allow it. Watch their rumored phone show up with a CrossMediaBar UI and no general computing app support to speak of.
Acer could definitely do it, but third party distributors would cut into their margin in a 'beige box' price war with Dell. They also seem happy to stay in the 'doesn't fit in your pocket' segment.
And the primary 'point' of an iPod touch is not having a data plan contract. A 3G/WiMax non-phone pocket computer could certainly be made, but then you've got all the drawbacks of a cell data contract -and- you're carrying/charging two devices (none of the up-side).
Sony makes some really cool stuff. The hardware group is just as good as Apple. Unfortunately the media side of the company runs to the board and makes them cripple every device they sell. WSJ did a nice story about it a few years ago. A lot of people like their laptops because they are thin and look nice. Personally i hate Vaio's with a passion after having to work on one while working in help desk
I wouldn't go so far as to call Apple's computers as being Dell-ish in design, but it seems to me that Apple has stalled on the design front lately. The Macbook Pro/Air unibody thing is interesting from an a engineering standpoint, but as an aesthetic experience, it's not all that exciting.
no growth in PC's so no reason to innovate
smartphones are the thing for the next 5-10 years
And the iphone/ipod touch is the pinnacle of Steve Job's minimalist design dream
AP News Wire, Staff Reporter: In a stunning turn of events Dell has chosen not to pursue a foolish course of action that would ultimately lead to failure and the loss untold millions dollars. In a prepared statement Michael Dell writes, Instead of "wasting buckets of money on a foolhardy endeavor" I am formally announcing that DELL will instead invest those otherwise wasted R&D dollars in a company that clearly knows what they're doing. At the market open DELL will be purchasing 100,000 nonvoting shares of APPL at market price.
It's like the race to the moon. Who will get there first- Apple or Dell?
Acer has full intention of beating out Dell. I don't think numbers really matter though. The number one computer seller is HP. I already have a doorstop, thank you.
Comments
Maybe you should send us all another irrelevant link about Gateway or something else. iPhones and iPod designs when we're talking iMacs? As if?
Seriously, get new beer-bottles.
They all include the iMac.
You CAN read, right?
Way to go Dell and Microsoft.
There are cheaper PCs than Dell around- they must be doing something right. Don't just slam something just because it sells well and is not Apple.
Actually, they aren't selling well, given volume/margins ratios. Dell is doing poorly and is about to give up its spot to Acer.
Actually, they aren't selling well, given volume/margins ratios. Dell is doing poorly and is about to give up its spot to Acer.
You're wasting your time with this teckstud dude. He is impervious. Scarily so.
You're right that Dell is a disaster, compared to Apple. Quite apart from the fact that Apple makes better products, here are some fun financial facts:
Apple Dell
Mkt Cap $126B $26B
PE Ratio ~26 ~14
Profit Margin (mrq) 14.76% 2.35%
Oper Margin (mrq) 20.42% 3.35%
ROA (mrq) 11.24% 4.42%
# Employees 32,000 76,500
You're wasting your time with this teckstud dude. He is impervious. Scarily so.
You're right that Dell is a disaster, compared to Apple. Quite apart from the fact that Apple makes better products, here are some fun financial facts:
Apple Dell
Mkt Cap $126B $26B
PE Ratio ~26 ~14
Profit Margin (mrq) 14.76% 2.35%
Oper Margin (mrq) 20.42% 3.35%
ROA (mrq) 11.24% 4.42%
# Employees 32,000 76,500
Dell = how to do less with more people.
This.
We're moving toward a place where everything is consolidated on one deivce, and that "one device" is getting better and better at all functions - phone, web, games, e-mail, online services, notifications, apps, games, music, etc.
To release a handheld that is supposed to be an "internet device" without phone functionality (when we already have an amazing "internet device" WITH phone functionality) is just silly.
Agreed, the last thing I want is another gadget to carry around, charge and keep track of!
I would like to see a BT keyboard for the iPhone that I could just keep in my car or brief case. Wait, what's this, I'm typing on Apple BT keyboard right now! WTF!
Seriously, as the previous poster stated....my iPhone has "almost" replaced my macBook.
MARK my words here
...
It will run on full mac os
And right here you're wrong.
There's zero chance that Apple would put keyboard/mouse software on a touch device.
Absolute zero.
That would set up all the wrong expectations and deliver a horrible user experience. Adding nominal touch support to a desktop OS and calling it done is the antithesis of how Apple operates.
The only possible problem in not putting a full desktop OS and software onto a hypothetical tablet is not having enough software support. But the SDK and App Store have proven that's no problem at all. It's actually a huge positive opportunity for Apple.
Soooo........ what does Dell bring to the table that others can't/don't?
It has the capacity and capability to actually make, distribute and support an Android-based iPod Touch knockoff and a willingness to accept razor-thin margins.
There is plenty of money to be made in the market segments that Apple chooses not to service.
And right here you're wrong.
There's zero chance that Apple would put keyboard/mouse software on a touch device.
Absolute zero.
That would set up all the wrong expectations and deliver a horrible user experience. Adding nominal touch support to a desktop OS and calling it done is the antithesis of how Apple operates.
The only possible problem in not putting a full desktop OS and software onto a hypothetical tablet is not having enough software support. But the SDK and App Store have proven that's no problem at all. It's actually a huge positive opportunity for Apple.
He obviously meant full OS - without keyboArd or mouse. It a megaTouch for godsake! i t will run everything- full featured.
It has the capacity and capability to actually make, distribute and support an Android-based iPod Touch knockoff and a willingness to accept razor-thin margins.
There is plenty of money to be made in the market segments that Apple chooses not to service.
Does Dell actually make its own products, or does it outsource the main manufacturing of it like everyone else does, and just does some assembly? Doesn't a company like HTC (with an Android product already) do the same thing? Also, if they wanted to, couldn't a Sony or an Acer do likewise?
Finally, won't all of them have to rely on wireless carriers anyway?
Aborted? Dell sold the Jukebox for awhile before killing it.
A device that needs an RF card would imply that I have two accounts with my wireless carrier.
as such devices become more popular you can expect alternative billing plans. If that is not the case now it still isn't a major problem.
One for my phone and one for my internet device. So I'm essentially carrying around two independent client machines. If I send a message from one, then I need to keep that with me all the time to get the reply. They could potentially be kept in sync in "the cloud", but that seems an overly complicated solution.
I'm not at all sure where this idea cAme from but if thing are setup right there is no issue. In my case I use @mac.com and it works perfectly fine with my MBP and iPhone. They are kept in sync and I can reference mail on either machine.
I'm not sure if this is even considered cloud computing as mail has worked this way for a long time. That is why we have mail servers, it allows you to use the right client anywhere to catch your E-Mail. Worked great years ago when I use to travel a lot for work. I suppose one could look at E-Mail as one of the first cloud like apps.
Also, putting more and more functionality into an iPhone-like device is less than optimal. For some (including me), the iPhone is at the same time too small and too big.
Putting more functionality in place does not imply a bigger device. What it does imply is fewer devices. This is a key point and is one of the reasons I'd like to see FM in the iPhone, it means one less device to keep track of.
For an internet device I'd want a bigger screen. And as a phone it's too big to carry around everywhere I go. Sometimes all you want/need with you is your phone and the small, the better.
Funny I thought iPhone was to small as it is.
You are right about some things related to the Internet. Iphone is small for that at times. But it could also use flash at times. That doesn't stop me from using it very often for web stuff. Now given that iPhone needs to be larger to experience the web how about a fold out display. A clam shell would offer almost twice the display area.
My ideal solution would be to have both a small, basic functionality phone, like today's standard non-smart flip phones and then an iPod touch type of device. The phone provides the gateway to the carrier's network, and the touch tethers to the phone with Bluetooth (or uses wi-fi when available) for it's internet connection. One connection, one phone number, one account with your carrier.
I still don't know what is up with the one account thing. Since one can do this with an IPhone and a MBP already what you are asking for is possible and already here.
What you are missing is that some will want that account anyways so as pointed out Apple needs alternatives.
The phone itself would perhaps offer iPod shuffle or nano media functionality for listening to music at the gym etc. You could start with that and then add to it.
the problem is most of us like what comes on the current iPhone. Taking away features or adding a low end model won't lead to lots of sales. I just don't see the industry or consummers going backwards here.
If the touch is a big enough screen, you get that. If/when Apple later releases a larger version, you can upgrade (without having to enter into a new contract with your carrier because you are still using the same phone).
you get the same carrier swap potential with a standardized RF card slot. Just move the modem from old to new.
Or you could start with a touch and use it only on wi-fi like the current touch, but later get a phone to expand it's connectivity when your aren't near wi-fi.
The phone could stay in your pocket, backpack, purse, etc unless you are actually making a phone call. As long as it's within range for Bluetooth, you'll have a connection on your touch. And the Bluetooth connection should require less power than a cell phone connection, so the touch's battery should last longer and you can continue using it while the phone sits connected to a charger. And for the times you don't want to carry around the touch (or the larger version of it), you simply leave it at home and take your phone. And since all messages would come via the phone, you could send a message from the touch, leave it at home, but still view replies on the phone when they come in.
I think you are confused about how e-mail works.
Sure, it's two devices, but would offer far more flexibility and options for users.
the only way I can see two devices being justified is if one had a dramatically larger device. Otherwise as much functionality as is possible needs to be crammed into the iPhone sized devices.
All to get that one device per person goal meet.
Dave
Does Dell actually make its own products
They outsource like everyone else. I wasn't trying to suggest they had some special ability to do it, just that they were positioned to actually produce something like the described product and make money from it. They're not a fly-by-night, they have room to make money and they don't mind making those small margins.
HTC is a phone company. Why would they spend resources building a non-phone 'android touch' when they could instead leverage their core competency making newer and better phones for the various providers and networks?
Sony could technically do it, but their corporate culture would never allow it. Watch their rumored phone show up with a CrossMediaBar UI and no general computing app support to speak of.
Acer could definitely do it, but third party distributors would cut into their margin in a 'beige box' price war with Dell. They also seem happy to stay in the 'doesn't fit in your pocket' segment.
And the primary 'point' of an iPod touch is not having a data plan contract. A 3G/WiMax non-phone pocket computer could certainly be made, but then you've got all the drawbacks of a cell data contract -and- you're carrying/charging two devices (none of the up-side).
I don't see how the marketing executives of these companies think that they can make a better portable pocket-sized device than Apple. Look at the facts - they're starting years late, Android software still doesn't match OSX portable, apps/usability. In terms of engineering, It's true apple haven't always used the best components on the market, but the thing is the software always runs well on the components they use. Hardware assembled, and software written by Apple in unison has made it work.
Dell should stick to what they're good at (not much).
that's what VZ said to Apple a few years ago
a lot of times starting late is an advantage because you don't have backward compatibility to worry about.
iPhone OS is on version 3 already and supports the original EDGE model. Kind of like Blackberry's OS supporting older models. Most of the games in the appstore are written for the 1st gen iphones and touches. nothing to show off the new 3G S's.
Few years down the road Apple is going to face the same choice with later versions of the OS. And it may be in the same position as RIM where they have 5 different OS versions for different generations of devices because you will have some people who don't mind keeping their iphone or Touch for years. I still have a gen 2 or 3 ipod even though i haven't used it for a long time. i might start syncing it just to send the telemetry back to Apple that i still use it
They outsource like everyone else. I wasn't trying to suggest they had some special ability to do it, just that they were positioned to actually produce something like the described product and make money from it. They're not a fly-by-night, they have room to make money and they don't mind making those small margins.
HTC is a phone company. Why would they spend resources building a non-phone 'android touch' when they could instead leverage their core competency making newer and better phones for the various providers and networks?
Sony could technically do it, but their corporate culture would never allow it. Watch their rumored phone show up with a CrossMediaBar UI and no general computing app support to speak of.
Acer could definitely do it, but third party distributors would cut into their margin in a 'beige box' price war with Dell. They also seem happy to stay in the 'doesn't fit in your pocket' segment.
And the primary 'point' of an iPod touch is not having a data plan contract. A 3G/WiMax non-phone pocket computer could certainly be made, but then you've got all the drawbacks of a cell data contract -and- you're carrying/charging two devices (none of the up-side).
Sony makes some really cool stuff. The hardware group is just as good as Apple. Unfortunately the media side of the company runs to the board and makes them cripple every device they sell. WSJ did a nice story about it a few years ago. A lot of people like their laptops because they are thin and look nice. Personally i hate Vaio's with a passion after having to work on one while working in help desk
I wouldn't go so far as to call Apple's computers as being Dell-ish in design, but it seems to me that Apple has stalled on the design front lately. The Macbook Pro/Air unibody thing is interesting from an a engineering standpoint, but as an aesthetic experience, it's not all that exciting.
no growth in PC's so no reason to innovate
smartphones are the thing for the next 5-10 years
And the iphone/ipod touch is the pinnacle of Steve Job's minimalist design dream
AP News Wire, Staff Reporter: In a stunning turn of events Dell has chosen not to pursue a foolish course of action that would ultimately lead to failure and the loss untold millions dollars. In a prepared statement Michael Dell writes, Instead of "wasting buckets of money on a foolhardy endeavor" I am formally announcing that DELL will instead invest those otherwise wasted R&D dollars in a company that clearly knows what they're doing. At the market open DELL will be purchasing 100,000 nonvoting shares of APPL at market price.
In after-hours trading DELL is unchanged...
----
It's like the race to the moon. Who will get there first- Apple or Dell?
Acer has full intention of beating out Dell. I don't think numbers really matter though. The number one computer seller is HP. I already have a doorstop, thank you.