Mozilla releases faster, safer, smarter version of Firefox browser

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 92
    talksense101talksense101 Posts: 1,737member
    Firefox 3.5 still doesn't pass the ACID3 test. So those CSS quirks are still around. I hope Firefox 4.0 gets a 100/100. The javascript engine is way faster than Opera 9.4 and slightly slower than Safari. I used the webkit JS test suite.
  • Reply 62 of 92
    yakkowyakkow Posts: 18member
    Safari vs. Firefox... I'm still torn, honestly.



    Safari 4 is randomly crashing on me for some reason, but I'm sure that will be fixed soon. I loved "tabs on top" in the beta, and I like how Safari handles things like PDFs. I prefer Safari's design/layout, and until this new FF release, Safari's had a big advantage for users of shared computers due to private browsing (believe it or not, it actually does have uses besides porn!).



    But Firefox still has two killer features that I miss when I use Safari. When you enter a password on a website, Firefox lets you wait until you see whether the password worked before deciding whether to save it. Safari makes you decide before the submission goes through. For those of us who have tons of different passwords, Firefox's way of doing it is much more helpful.



    Also, Firefox's use of plugins allows for way more customization. In particular, I love the Flash-blocker plugins that let you disable all Flash running on certain pages and/or selectively activate only the ones you want. This lets you avoid annoying Flash ads or disable buggy/excessive Flash on pages that typically crash or slow Safari.



    As a result, I find myself going back and forth between two browsers.
  • Reply 63 of 92
    erunnoerunno Posts: 225member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post


    Firefox 3.5 still doesn't pass the ACID3 test. So those CSS quirks are still around.



    Wrong, Firefox fails (with one exception) in SVG/SMIL related tests. [1] And you are attributing way too much credit to ACID 3 as it covers only a subset of the individual specifications. Read my former post where I manually tested Apple's own CSS3 namespaces tests where Firefox 3.5 actually fared better.



    Quote:

    I hope Firefox 4.0 gets a 100/100.



    At least SVG fonts is being worked on, not sure about SMIL.



    Quote:

    and slightly slower than Safari.



    Actually, Firefox JS engine is way slower than Nitro and V8. Run some other tests like Dromaeo and V8 test and then head over to Chrome Experiments for some "real world" examples.



    [1] http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...iZn4B2Yw&gid=0



    EDIT: JS example I was looking for where Safari 4/Chrome 2 make a far better impression: http://280slides.com/Editor/
  • Reply 64 of 92
    erunnoerunno Posts: 225member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YakkoW View Post


    and I like how Safari handles things like PDFs.



    Firefox PDF Plugin for Mac OS X



    Quote:

    I prefer Safari's design/layout



    Have a look at http://www.takebacktheweb.org/.



    Quote:

    When you enter a password on a website, Firefox lets you wait until you see whether the password worked before deciding whether to save it. Safari makes you decide before the submission goes through. For those of us who have tons of different passwords, Firefox's way of doing it is much more helpful.



    Still boggles the mind that Apple didn't use this interface tweak. Google recognized the worth of non-modal dialogues instantly when designing Chrome's interface.



    Quote:

    I love the Flash-blocker plugins that let you disable all Flash running on certain pages and/or selectively activate only the ones you want.



    ClickToFlash



    EDIT: Switched language for Firefox PDF Plugin to English.
  • Reply 65 of 92
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    I didn't post that, but I can elaborate. First, the new safari displaced the old innovative blue progress bar with that spinning ball that isn't in natural place for the eye to see. Worst, it didn't give an option to revert to the old way when plenty of people complained in the beta. Second, the tabs on top were touted as an innovative wonderful feature, but then Apple remove it again without giving users an option. Third, unlike every version of Safari before it: Apple removed the hidden preference files that let user decide for themselves. Fourth, in my experience, Apple's auto fill functions work the worst then on any other browser.



    Don't get me wrong Safari 4 is fast. I even like some of the changes, like the ability to increase images along with the text. However, the final release is a let down from the beta, which I actually went back to using.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post


    Please elaborate on why.



  • Reply 66 of 92
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    I agree as well. This is the only program that I find cover flow useful. I use it to browse history all the time, and it is helpful.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a Martin View Post


    I agree totally on the ?Cover Flow? browsing in Safari!



  • Reply 67 of 92
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,382member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YakkoW View Post


    Safari vs. Firefox... I'm still torn, honestly.



    I like how Safari handles things like PDFs. I prefer Safari's design/layout, and until this new FF release, Safari's had a big advantage for users of shared computers due to private browsing (believe it or not, it actually does have uses besides porn!).



    But Firefox still has two killer features.... When you enter a password on a website, Firefox lets you wait until you see whether the password worked before deciding whether to save it. Safari makes you decide before the submission goes through.



    Also, Firefox's use of plugins allows for way more customization.



    This is not meant as a slam, btw, I'd really appreciate a thoughtful response or two and maybe learn something, since lots of users seem to like Safari well-enough.



    I really wish I could find more to like about Safari, because fast it is, and Apple's tying parts of its ecosystem to Safari. From what I can see, also, it doesn't have as much memory hogging creep as Firefox, which I have to shut down every few hours after it starts to rise above 400 MB of active memory use (and over 1.5 GB virtual).



    But here we are at V4 in 2009 and Safari still doesn't do even multiple home pages, let alone this next function that's critical to my way of working:



    I use a browser as a multi-tasking workspace over time, dealing with news, multiple email accounts, shared docs, entertainment sites, research on various topics, social networking - and when you set FF to reopen the browser session you left, you not only get all the tabs you were on - which, yes, I've learned you can manually ask Safari to do once it's up - but you get them with each tab's complete history so you can go back and forth on each.



    And when it comes to add-ons, Mozilla's totally free version of the "App Store," Safari's so far in the rear-view mirror as to be invisible in FF's dust. Googlepedia - which presents a Wikipedia article (often quite relevant) to the right of the search results where the annoying spam, err, "helpful Google ads" usually appear is a prime example. Customize Google. Cool Previews, Cool Iris, etc.



    The paltry few Safari add-ons I found for S3 (and I can't even find them or how to add them in Safari 4, but they must be there??) were all geek-tinkering stuff of no interest to me.



    Note: I just used the Safari help system to re-look and "add plug-ins," "extensions" and "add-ons" (with or without the word "Safari" ALL return ZERO help results, and the help available for "plug-ins" has no mention whatsoever of customizing Safari. WT.....??? How extensible is Safari meant to be?



    (e.g., I thought X-Marks, which is now synchronizing my FF bookmarks across three computers) for example was now available??)



    Then there's the absence of multiple search engines in the search box. I frequently use a dictionary search, IMDB, YouTube, Wikipedia, and yes, of late, Bing is more and more often my choice. Why the limitation? $$ from Google to Apple? Not that Google isn't the leading engine by a wide margin yet, but again, it's not the only useful search tool in the box for all users all the time.



    Safari preferences are also frustrating - mostly in their absence of fine-grain control. Very dumbed-down and limited by comparison to FF. Unless I'm missing it, you can't even see your site passwords - a feature that sends me back to my FF prefs on my notebook whenever I need to open a site on another computer - or say, when I want to keep trying to warm up to using Safari.



    And the lack of a progress bar indicator when loading a page, even if it wasn't totally accurate, is I think a step back in S4.



    That said, top sites is a nice feature - typically Apple - rather useful eye candy, but someone tell me, what else am I missing?



    Plus, purely subjectively, I find Safari kinda ugly.



    So for me, I'm hoping for improved mem management for FF as I don't see Safari being in any rush to deal with any of the issues I've raised above.
  • Reply 68 of 92
    meelashmeelash Posts: 1,045member
    I think most of the stuff you mentioned is pretty fair, it's just a question of how important those features are to everyone. You have to admit that not every one will find those features as important as you do, and there are other things Safari does better. Also, many people are fans of minimalism, look how far Google's taken that with Chrome.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    This is not meant as a slam, btw, I'd really appreciate a thoughtful response or two and maybe learn something, since lots of users seem to like Safari well-enough.



    I really wish I could find more to like about Safari, because fast it is, and Apple's tying parts of its ecosystem to Safari. From what I can see, also, it doesn't have as much memory hogging creep as Firefox, which I have to shut down every few hours after it starts to rise above 400 MB of active memory use (and over 1.5 GB virtual).



    But here we are at V4 in 2009 and Safari still doesn't do even multiple home pages, let alone this next function that's critical to my way of working:




    Top sites can be a replacement for that functionality, since you can customize how many and which sites show up, and see at a glance if the page has been updated without having to open it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post




    I use a browser as a multi-tasking workspace over time, dealing with news, multiple email accounts, shared docs, entertainment sites, research on various topics, social networking - and when you set FF to reopen the browser session you left, you not only get all the tabs you were on - which, yes, I've learned you can manually ask Safari to do once it's up - but you get them with each tab's complete history so you can go back and forth on each.



    And when it comes to add-ons, Mozilla's totally free version of the "App Store," Safari's so far in the rear-view mirror as to be invisible in FF's dust. Googlepedia - which presents a Wikipedia article (often quite relevant) to the right of the search results where the annoying spam, err, "helpful Google ads" usually appear is a prime example. Customize Google. Cool Previews, Cool Iris, etc.



    Fair enough. Cool Iris is available for Safari, though. And probably lots of others, I don't really spend a lot of time looking around for such things. But I would say Apple could do a lot to encourage development of plug-ins than they're doing right now.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    The paltry few Safari add-ons I found for S3 (and I can't even find them or how to add them in Safari 4, but they must be there??) were all geek-tinkering stuff of no interest to me.



    Note: I just used the Safari help system to re-look and "add plug-ins," "extensions" and "add-ons" (with or without the word "Safari" ALL return ZERO help results, and the help available for "plug-ins" has no mention whatsoever of customizing Safari. WT.....??? How extensible is Safari meant to be?



    (e.g., I thought X-Marks, which is now synchronizing my FF bookmarks across three computers) for example was now available??)



    Then there's the absence of multiple search engines in the search box. I frequently use a dictionary search, IMDB, YouTube, Wikipedia, and yes, of late, Bing is more and more often my choice. Why the limitation? $$ from Google to Apple? Not that Google isn't the leading engine by a wide margin yet, but again, it's not the only useful search tool in the box for all users all the time.



    Safari preferences are also frustrating - mostly in their absence of fine-grain control. Very dumbed-down and limited by comparison to FF. Unless I'm missing it, you can't even see your site passwords - a feature that sends me back to my FF prefs on my notebook whenever I need to open a site on another computer - or say, when I want to keep trying to warm up to using Safari.



    Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. Some people prefer it. As for the passwords, they're all in your keychain along with all other OS X passwords, mail, etc. I think that's a plus for Safari over Firefox.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    And the lack of a progress bar indicator when loading a page, even if it wasn't totally accurate, is I think a step back in S4.



    That said, top sites is a nice feature - typically Apple - rather useful eye candy, but someone tell me, what else am I missing?




    As I mentioned before: Cover flow history! Nobody else has got anything close (AFAIK), and it is pretty damn unreplaceable.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post




    Plus, purely subjectively, I find Safari kinda ugly.



    So for me, I'm hoping for improved mem management for FF as I don't see Safari being in any rush to deal with any of the issues I've raised above.



  • Reply 69 of 92
    patrollpatroll Posts: 77member
    Quote:



    Thank you. (I'll look more carefully next time )
  • Reply 70 of 92
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meelash View Post


    I think most of the stuff you mentioned is pretty fair, it's just a question of how important those features are to everyone. You have to admit that not every one will find those features as important as you do, and there are other things Safari does better. Also, many people are fans of minimalism, look how far Google's taken that with Chrome.



    Bigpics certainly makes some valid points as to why Safari doesn?t work for him, but that isn?t what Apple usually operates and I wouldn?t expect most of those features to ever come to Safari.
  • Reply 71 of 92
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patroll View Post


    Thank you. (I'll look more carefully next time )



    Don't be embarrassed - It actually took me quite a while to find!
  • Reply 72 of 92
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    I like Safari 4 because Flash no longer crashes Safari as badly as before. I like Firefox because when you resize the page (Command Plus or Command Minus) It remembers that resize for the whole site, when you open new tabs of the same site (eg. AppleInsider it remembers the zoom setting...). Great to see Safari and Firefox improve overall, anything to fight the menace that is Internutz Exploder.
  • Reply 73 of 92
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    I'm liking the "Start Automatically In Private Browsing" option in Firefox. I'm obsessed about not leaving any trail of my Internet surfing. Not just because of pr0n.
  • Reply 74 of 92
    erunnoerunno Posts: 225member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    I'm liking the "Start Automatically In Private Browsing" option in Firefox. I'm obsessed about not leaving any trail of my Internet surfing. Not just because of pr0n.



    To start Safari automatically in private browsing mode you can try this.
  • Reply 75 of 92
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    OOooohhh... Firefox 3.5 Mac OS X supports pinch zoom in and out on the MacBook/Pro multi-touch trackpad. Nicee...
  • Reply 76 of 92
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Erunno View Post


    To start Safari automatically in private browsing mode you can try this.



    Wow. Thanks.
  • Reply 77 of 92
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    They are crapping on Safari because not only is Safari eating away more of IE it is also eating away part of FF market growth.



    Add Chrome and the WebKit based browser market will surpass the Gecko market within 18 months.



    Mozilla will have to adopt WebKit at some point. It'll cost them less than rewriting Gecko. Opera should do the same, Presto is falling behind and Opera doesn't have the critical mass to push it forward as fast as Apple and Google are pushing WebKit.
  • Reply 78 of 92
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post


    Mozilla will have to adopt WebKit at some point. It'll cost them less than rewriting Gecko. Opera should do the same, Presto is falling behind and Opera doesn't have the critical mass to push it forward as fast as Apple and Google are pushing WebKit.



    Could you post some info that backs your theory up? From my experience Presto and Gecko are more than fast enough and standards compliant to make an impact on PC and mobile platforms for the foreseeable future.
  • Reply 79 of 92
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    They are crapping on Safari because not only is Safari eating away more of IE it is also eating away part of FF market growth.



    ? Firefox use is still growing. Hitslink shows FF at 20% last Nov/Dec, it's at 22% now.



    Quote:

    Add Chrome and the WebKit based browser market will surpass the Gecko market within 18 months.



    Is this a wish on your part, or is there information to back this up?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post


    Mozilla will have to adopt WebKit at some point. It'll cost them less than rewriting Gecko. Opera should do the same, Presto is falling behind and Opera doesn't have the critical mass to push it forward as fast as Apple and Google are pushing WebKit.



    I think it's a bad idea for this kind of homogenization to happen. Everyone using the same rendering engine is only slightly better than everyone using the same browser in my opinion. If there is a serious security exploit, under your vision, there aren't any alternatives to use while waiting for the problem to be fixed.
  • Reply 80 of 92
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Could you post some info that backs your theory up? From my experience Presto and Gecko are more than fast enough and standards compliant to make an impact on PC and mobile platforms for the foreseeable future.



    But this is the internets! Why would I post facts?



    It is generally accepted [who?] that WebKit is leaps and bounds better [dubious]. Do you intend on going against the prime directive?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM


    I think it's a bad idea for this kind of homogenization to happen. Everyone using the same rendering engine is only slightly better than everyone using the same browser in my opinion. If there is a serious security exploit, under your vision, there aren't any alternatives to use while waiting for the problem to be fixed.



    With Interweb Exploder at 65-70% I wont worry about all other browsers sharing WebKit. They don't have to be identical. Chrome does its own thing with sandboxing and multiprocesses and V8 JavaScript Engine, that makes it different from Safari and a significantly better browser.
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