I don't think the majority of Americans dislike socialism, it is the going to jail for speaking your mind that turns people off. Other than that, if they can provide a reasonable living standard for the half of the population at retirement age we will see.
Americans (although 1/3 the population of China) are blaming Union Labor for their woes. It is simple math. Prior to the "baby boom" there were enough people to support rich living standards for retirees. Now that it is the reverse, and the "boomers" are retiring, they didn't make enough babies to support their fat pensions, and they didn't put enough money into the funds to support them either. Now this generation of workers has to pay out more to keep the same standard, and it is falling apart.
My point is, China crippling their population will come back to collapse their way of living as it stands now, or they will just kill the old people so they don't rob the young of their resources. In the US, we are trying every way imaginable to support the retirees. And it is difficult but not impossible. To say we are at a near collapse is over stating your case.
China was always a very insular, nationalist society. It isn't "racism" so much as a disdain for Western social norms and trends which they view to be distasteful. They have legitimate historical grievances against the Western world. They want world preeminence, NOT dominance. This is a powerful, attractive goal, and even those in China who criticize the government take this goal very seriously.
And they won't "kill the old people." Reverence for elders is central to Chinese society, far more than in the West.
Yes, China faces some challenges in terms of catching up in areas of human rights (that is, Western notions of "human rights". They are not universal.) But don't assume widepsread oppression, and don't assume that everyone is clamouring for democracy. China is not the old Soviet Union. The Chinese at large don't care for Western customs and Western modes of thought. They lay claim to a 1000+ year old culture and philosopy that has remained, in substantial areas, unchanged.
What you said might be applicable to people from Taiwan, Hong Kong or Macau, but not mainland China. People started going against the traditional thinking during the May Fourth movement, which occurred at the beginning of the 20th century and this backlash against the traditional ways cumulated in the Cultural Revolution. Most people of my parents' age in mainland China went to school during this period and barely received any education. They most definitely learned little in schools about the traditional philosophies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
China is a homogeneous society and many don't want the "white devils" or "foreign devils" and their corrupting influence. For all these Western notions of "oppression" and lack of "freedom", the average Chinese is not only suspicious of the West, but regards him/herself as superior. And in many ways, they'd be right in thinking so. A constant stream in Chinese thought has been that they are heirs to the world, that theirs is the "Middle Kingdom" (Chung-Kuo) around which everything else revolves. They prefer to infiltrate the West and return with knowledge for the benefit of China. And really, who can blame them? They have been doing this kind of thing successfully for over a thousand years.
That's more applicable to Japan than China, because the Chinese population is much more heterogeneous than that of Japan and it has been subjected to "foreign rule" for quite a few centuries (the Qing dynasty is the most recent example).
As for the part about "infiltrating the West", I am not sure if there's any historial basis for your claims, as China, until the middle of the 19th century, has more or less existed in seclusion and actively shut off its borders starting from the Ming dynasty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
China is making Socialism work. It is imperfect, and has a long road ahead. But it's still standing. There are no walls to be torn down here. And this has caused a backlash in the West due to the raging disbelief of it all. It is almost an insult to have a working model of Socialism beside a Democratic West that seems to be falling apart. For China, Socialism has proved to be just as adaptable as any other system. Classical Marxism in not Soviet-era communism.
Don't assume that another culture's notion of "freedom" is the same as your own.
I would argue the situations in many Western nations are closer to the ideals of socialism than the current situation in China. The US, of course, is not one of those states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Excellent question. In addition, are all of the laptops, netbooks, and smartphones - if any - currently being sold in China crippled in this fashion?
Perhaps this is just a cost issue for a particular model that is being created?
The iPod Touch is definitely being sold with its WiFi functions intact in China.
Personally, I don't thinking the row over WiFi has anything to do with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology in China. The proxy hole can be easily closed off on the iPhone through software means. Also, besides cost concerns, I am sure Apple is eager to preserve as much of the iPhone experience as possible, which would be damaged by the exclusion of WiFi functions.
China was always a very insular, nationalist society. It isn't "racism" so much as a disdain for Western social norms and trends which they view to be distasteful.
If they find it distasteful to put the individual before the group, they will be "borrowing" our technology for a long time to come, because it is the unique individuals who come up with new ideas.
like wise...it will have a lot of pre-installed china unicummm apps.. prob even a logo on the iphone somewhere.. i doubt the oversea locked/unlocked iphone sales would drop.. while the overall iphone market share will go up.
China was always a very insular, nationalist society. It isn't "racism" so much as a disdain for Western social norms and trends which they view to be distasteful. They have legitimate historical grievances against the Western world. They want world preeminence, NOT dominance. This is a powerful, attractive goal, and even those in China who criticize the government take this goal very seriously.
And they won't "kill the old people." Reverence for elders is central to Chinese society, far more than in the West.
You are right that the Chinese are very insular and nationalist. And they are also racist. Chinese constantly make racist comments about almost every other race. I have had numerous Chinese tell me that the Chinese are racist.
China wants "preeminence", but they don't understand that the preeminent countries of the world don't tolerate excessive nationalism, xenophobia, and racism, that are so characteristic of the Chinese (and were characteristic of Europe 100 years ago, but not now). This is the biggest stumbling block to China becoming "preeminent", which it can't do entirely through it's military and economic power.
Chinese culture and norms are no older nor better than those of the West. America's democratic government goes back to ancient Greece, 4000 years, and has been influenced continuously by history since then. And which "Western social norms and trends" are supposedly inferior to those of the Chinese? Respect for minority rights? Rule of law and legal transparency? Freedom to elect our own government representatives and hold them accountable? Not spitting on the street, and lining up in an orderly fashion on trains? (Have you ever taken a Chinese train?? Unreal!)
I don't see Chinese culture or history as being superior to those of the West.
As for the Chinese communist government blocking Wi-fi on the iPhone, this is clearly nothing but an attempt at information control, as other posters have already stated. Let's see if Apple bucks.
You are right that the Chinese are very insular and nationalist. And they are also racist. Chinese constantly make racist comments about almost every other race. I have had numerous Chinese tell me that the Chinese are racist.
China wants "preeminence", but they don't understand that the.....
Wow! Great thread! This is one of the reasons why I love Applesinsider! Lots of interesting and well thought out discussion (and no I'm not being sarcastic).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmac
The need for net-savy citizen journalists has never been greater. What a powerful gift it would be if an American company is able to sell them the latest tools of the trade.
Unfortunately the need for 'Harmonious relations' outweighs the need for a free press. It is quite difficult for Westerners to understand, unless they have lived there, and even then..
Quote:
Originally Posted by anakin1992
do you understand that if all data traffic has to go through chinese iphone provider, how much more profit can they make? it is apple begging for chinese market, not the other way around, your bonehead. there are tons of wifi cell phones in china, but iphone. in order to gain into the door, if chinese carrier wants apple to put shit on the iphone, they would do so. you know why? without iphone, they still can make zillions of money.
OK so maybe not quite so well thought out. Dude, read the post you are replying to again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Don't assume that another culture's notion of "freedom" is the same as your own.
China is not homogenous at all. As another poster noted, you are thinking of Japan. There is a definite Han majority, but even the Han majority actually includes the larger non Han ethnic groups. The Chinese look for the similarities that draw people together, because that is where national strength comes from.... something that we in the West used to do, but sadly no longer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pridon
Don't they sell iPod Touches in China? If so, I don't understand what blocking wi-fi on the iphone would do.
Anyone in China reading this who could explain?
As another poster noted, they certainly do sell Touch in China. The reason why the Chinese Govt don't mind the Wifi on the Touch, but are regulating the iPhone would have been obvious I would have thought? There is no camera on the Touch. It is very much a passive device. Sure you can post counter revolutionary thoughts onto the web, but it is the camera and audio capabilities connected with a wifi gateway that scares the regime. Instantaneous uploads of uncensored video or interviews, anywhere - are you joking? Sure, you can do the same thing with a laptop or other accessories, but it is the shear simplicity of sharing a/v content that is dangerous. Remember China is a huge conglomerate of languages/cultures - blogs etc have power but in a limited way. Everyone can understand a video, no matter what their level of language ability or cultural background.
OK I take that back, maybe not understand - but definitely see and form an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Wow. 'Insular,' 'nationliast,' 'racist'?!
Look in the mirror.
Dude, don't go down to his level. You know better than that.
Once the hobbled iPhone goes legal in China, the demand for the real one should skyrocket even more than it already is now.
China will unfortunately still require a heavy hand on it's population for quite some time.
How else can you force a population to reduce it's dangerously high numbers?
Look what the policy of opening up China to Western style standard of living has done.
1: Since China has no oil, it has to import it just like the US does. $147 a barrel of oil?, blame the Chinese primarily for the huge demand spike last year.
2: High cost for construction materials. Every went shopping at Home Depo lately? A little bag of nothing costs a fortune now. It's because China is shopping the world and sucking the limited resources of the world dry.
3: Deflation in the US. Jobs are being lost because they are going overseas to the abundance of cheap labor in China. No jobs = no money = nobody buys nothing = no jobs and the cycle continues.
The U.S. is finished economically and so is our high standard of living for nearly everyone. (relative to the rest of the world that is) It's all gone to China.
Whom ever sold out the US economy and made China favorite nation trade status should be tarred and feathered.
Another ignorant american talking crap here. How do you know China has no oil? Maybe you should check and you will realize that China is actually a large oil producing country. But the problem is they cannot produce enough for consumption, so that they have to import more. So please do some research before talking crap.
if you are talking about japan, then you are right, they don't have a drop of oil.
if you guys want to understand why the US is going bankrupt, just come here to this apple forum. You can clearly see the racist and xenophobic comments made by Americans.
Even today the Americans still discriminate against the natives, minorities and women. But they still they are superior during this economic recession, how pathetic? The only thing the Americans can do is to print more money.
Once the hobbled iPhone goes legal in China, the demand for the real one should skyrocket even more than it already is now.
China will unfortunately still require a heavy hand on it's population for quite some time.
How else can you force a population to reduce it's dangerously high numbers?
Look what the policy of opening up China to Western style standard of living has done.
1: Since China has no oil, it has to import it just like the US does. $147 a barrel of oil?, blame the Chinese primarily for the huge demand spike last year.
2: High cost for construction materials. Every went shopping at Home Depo lately? A little bag of nothing costs a fortune now. It's because China is shopping the world and sucking the limited resources of the world dry.
3: Deflation in the US. Jobs are being lost because they are going overseas to the abundance of cheap labor in China. No jobs = no money = nobody buys nothing = no jobs and the cycle continues.
The U.S. is finished economically and so is our high standard of living for nearly everyone. (relative to the rest of the world that is) It's all gone to China.
Whom ever sold out the US economy and made China favorite nation trade status should be tarred and feathered.
Alot of people here know shit about china . First off the chinese govt is a repressive regime.You can be shot for being a Falung Gong member and have your wife sent an invoice for the bullet
READ UP hundreds of articles on chinese repression. .
The fact that yahoo and google and almost all internet power houses have helped the red chinese spy on there people sucks. Our silence is deaferning
Apple by taking off features MAY OR MAY NOT be guilty of aiding an communist govt in hurting its people. The chinese people and history are wonderful in many respects . And we have our own faults .
But we enjoy freedoms in the west that some risk there lives to obtain. And the red chinese govt. restricts those very same freedoms we take for granted .
Alot of people here know shit about china . First off the chinese govt is a repressive regime.You can be shot for being a Falung Gong member and have your wife sent an invoice for the bullet
READ UP hundreds of articles on chinese repression. .
The fact that yahoo and google and almost all internet power houses have helped the red chinese spy on there people sucks. Our silence is deaferning
Apple by taking off features MAY OR MAY NOT be guilty of aiding an communist govt in hurting its people. The chinese people and history are wonderful in many respects . And we have our own faults .
But we enjoy freedoms in the west that some risk there lives to obtain. And the red chinese govt. restricts those very same freedoms we take for granted .
Like this debate right now .
peace
9
What you find repressive and backward, others might not.
When there is a revolution in China and the current regime is replaced by a Western-style democracy, let us know. America, Canada, Great Britain, etc., are not China.
Democracy is not compatible across the globe. Our ideas of "freedom" are a Western, Judaeo-Christian construction, and in fact don't bear much resemblance to ancient Hellenistic ideals.
And your use of "red China" and "red Chinese" seems more of a pejorative than an accurate label.
Our ideas of "freedom" are a Western, Judaeo-Christian construction, and in fact don't bear much resemblance to ancient Hellenistic ideals.
Not true.
There is a ton of information available both academically and for the layman, but here are a few easy to understand links for you that show the very strong foundation that ancient Greek democracy provided for the American model of government:
Furthermore, ancient forms of Chinese government and society are at least as different from today's China as ancient Greece is from today's America.
The only reason I bring this up is to show that, again, Chinese culture is not any older, more refined, or well thought-out than Western culture at all. (I do not mean this as a slight to Chinese culture or history, which are both fascinating and worth studying. Just saying there is no basis to claim it is superior to that of the west, as is often said by Chinese)
Can't wait to see what happens with the iPhone in China.
[QUOTE=Quadra 610;1447483]What you find repressive and backward, others might not.
When there is a revolution in China and the current regime is replaced by a Western-style democracy, let us know. America, Canada, Great Britain, etc., are not China.
Democracy is not compatible across the globe. Our ideas of "freedom" are a Western, Judaeo-Christian construction, and in fact don't bear much resemblance to ancient Hellenistic ideals.
---
Chinese practice thought control and have disarmed the citizenry, hence a redefining 'revolution' will probably not take place, just like in other totalitarian states such as Iran and Cuba. Speak up, go to jail. Fight back with your sticks and stones - Right!
Maybe YOUR idea of 'freedom' doesn't include self defense or free speech but you are pretty brazen to say that these are not compatable across the globe. Please provide some factual evidence this your statement is not complete nonsense, else I will dismiss your 'point' as a fantasy that you 'wish' were true about the nature of humankind 'across the globe.'
Maybe YOUR idea of 'freedom' doesn't include self defense or free speech but you are pretty brazen to say that these are not compatable across the globe.
Do you honestly think they are?? Do you honestly think everyone else thinks like you or aspires to think like you? I'd say THAT is pretty brazen.
Do you honestly think they are?? Do you honestly think everyone else thinks like you or aspires to think like you? I'd say THAT is pretty brazen.
It is pretty obvious that everyone wants freedom, free speech, the right to have a say in one's goverment, and the right to self defense. So I would say that in that context, I DO think that everyone wants what we here in America have. Please point me to a few examples where the man on the street does not share these human desires with those of us who live in the free world. I've been to Cuba, to see what a dictatorship looked and felt like, and I would only ask if you would like to live in fear of having your personal liberty taken away on a whim. Spend a few years in a 6x9 cell, and you will know how these states maintain power.
I doubt they will allow a WiFi chip on the iPhone at all. The Meizu M8 had WiFi chip onboard disabled thru software (so that exports could enable WiFi I guess) but the Chinese government refused to license the device until Meizu removed the WiFi chip. This was a serious blow to fans of the device internationally since Meizu wasn't quite ready to create another international version, letting it rather see how well the device sold in China. Only prototype version which were released to the press could be hacked to enable the WiFi chip.
Another ignorant american talking crap here. How do you know China has no oil? Maybe you should check and you will realize that China is actually a large oil producing country. But the problem is they cannot produce enough for consumption, so that they have to import more. So please do some research before talking crap.
if you are talking about japan, then you are right, they don't have a drop of oil.
if you guys want to understand why the US is going bankrupt, just come here to this apple forum. You can clearly see the racist and xenophobic comments made by Americans.
Even today the Americans still discriminate against the natives, minorities and women. But they still they are superior during this economic recession, how pathetic? The only thing the Americans can do is to print more money.
You're correct on the Oil. If we are to take the estimates from the CIA World book of Facts:
Comments
Don't they sell iPod Touches in China? If so, I don't understand what blocking wi-fi on the iphone would do.
Anyone in China reading this who could explain?
Excellent question. In addition, are all of the laptops, netbooks, and smartphones - if any - currently being sold in China crippled in this fashion?
Perhaps this is just a cost issue for a particular model that is being created?
You paint quite the racist image of the Chinese.
I don't think the majority of Americans dislike socialism, it is the going to jail for speaking your mind that turns people off. Other than that, if they can provide a reasonable living standard for the half of the population at retirement age we will see.
Americans (although 1/3 the population of China) are blaming Union Labor for their woes. It is simple math. Prior to the "baby boom" there were enough people to support rich living standards for retirees. Now that it is the reverse, and the "boomers" are retiring, they didn't make enough babies to support their fat pensions, and they didn't put enough money into the funds to support them either. Now this generation of workers has to pay out more to keep the same standard, and it is falling apart.
My point is, China crippling their population will come back to collapse their way of living as it stands now, or they will just kill the old people so they don't rob the young of their resources. In the US, we are trying every way imaginable to support the retirees. And it is difficult but not impossible. To say we are at a near collapse is over stating your case.
China was always a very insular, nationalist society. It isn't "racism" so much as a disdain for Western social norms and trends which they view to be distasteful. They have legitimate historical grievances against the Western world. They want world preeminence, NOT dominance. This is a powerful, attractive goal, and even those in China who criticize the government take this goal very seriously.
And they won't "kill the old people." Reverence for elders is central to Chinese society, far more than in the West.
Yes, China faces some challenges in terms of catching up in areas of human rights (that is, Western notions of "human rights". They are not universal.) But don't assume widepsread oppression, and don't assume that everyone is clamouring for democracy. China is not the old Soviet Union. The Chinese at large don't care for Western customs and Western modes of thought. They lay claim to a 1000+ year old culture and philosopy that has remained, in substantial areas, unchanged.
What you said might be applicable to people from Taiwan, Hong Kong or Macau, but not mainland China. People started going against the traditional thinking during the May Fourth movement, which occurred at the beginning of the 20th century and this backlash against the traditional ways cumulated in the Cultural Revolution. Most people of my parents' age in mainland China went to school during this period and barely received any education. They most definitely learned little in schools about the traditional philosophies.
China is a homogeneous society and many don't want the "white devils" or "foreign devils" and their corrupting influence. For all these Western notions of "oppression" and lack of "freedom", the average Chinese is not only suspicious of the West, but regards him/herself as superior. And in many ways, they'd be right in thinking so. A constant stream in Chinese thought has been that they are heirs to the world, that theirs is the "Middle Kingdom" (Chung-Kuo) around which everything else revolves. They prefer to infiltrate the West and return with knowledge for the benefit of China. And really, who can blame them? They have been doing this kind of thing successfully for over a thousand years.
That's more applicable to Japan than China, because the Chinese population is much more heterogeneous than that of Japan and it has been subjected to "foreign rule" for quite a few centuries (the Qing dynasty is the most recent example).
As for the part about "infiltrating the West", I am not sure if there's any historial basis for your claims, as China, until the middle of the 19th century, has more or less existed in seclusion and actively shut off its borders starting from the Ming dynasty.
China is making Socialism work. It is imperfect, and has a long road ahead. But it's still standing. There are no walls to be torn down here. And this has caused a backlash in the West due to the raging disbelief of it all. It is almost an insult to have a working model of Socialism beside a Democratic West that seems to be falling apart. For China, Socialism has proved to be just as adaptable as any other system. Classical Marxism in not Soviet-era communism.
Don't assume that another culture's notion of "freedom" is the same as your own.
I would argue the situations in many Western nations are closer to the ideals of socialism than the current situation in China. The US, of course, is not one of those states.
Excellent question. In addition, are all of the laptops, netbooks, and smartphones - if any - currently being sold in China crippled in this fashion?
Perhaps this is just a cost issue for a particular model that is being created?
The iPod Touch is definitely being sold with its WiFi functions intact in China.
China was always a very insular, nationalist society. It isn't "racism" so much as a disdain for Western social norms and trends which they view to be distasteful.
If they find it distasteful to put the individual before the group, they will be "borrowing" our technology for a long time to come, because it is the unique individuals who come up with new ideas.
Here's to the crazy ones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvn_Ied9t4M
China was always a very insular, nationalist society. It isn't "racism" so much as a disdain for Western social norms and trends which they view to be distasteful. They have legitimate historical grievances against the Western world. They want world preeminence, NOT dominance. This is a powerful, attractive goal, and even those in China who criticize the government take this goal very seriously.
And they won't "kill the old people." Reverence for elders is central to Chinese society, far more than in the West.
You are right that the Chinese are very insular and nationalist. And they are also racist. Chinese constantly make racist comments about almost every other race. I have had numerous Chinese tell me that the Chinese are racist.
China wants "preeminence", but they don't understand that the preeminent countries of the world don't tolerate excessive nationalism, xenophobia, and racism, that are so characteristic of the Chinese (and were characteristic of Europe 100 years ago, but not now). This is the biggest stumbling block to China becoming "preeminent", which it can't do entirely through it's military and economic power.
Chinese culture and norms are no older nor better than those of the West. America's democratic government goes back to ancient Greece, 4000 years, and has been influenced continuously by history since then. And which "Western social norms and trends" are supposedly inferior to those of the Chinese? Respect for minority rights? Rule of law and legal transparency? Freedom to elect our own government representatives and hold them accountable? Not spitting on the street, and lining up in an orderly fashion on trains? (Have you ever taken a Chinese train?? Unreal!)
I don't see Chinese culture or history as being superior to those of the West.
As for the Chinese communist government blocking Wi-fi on the iPhone, this is clearly nothing but an attempt at information control, as other posters have already stated. Let's see if Apple bucks.
You are right that the Chinese are very insular and nationalist. And they are also racist. Chinese constantly make racist comments about almost every other race. I have had numerous Chinese tell me that the Chinese are racist.
China wants "preeminence", but they don't understand that the.....
Wow. 'Insular,' 'nationliast,' 'racist'?!
Look in the mirror.
The need for net-savy citizen journalists has never been greater. What a powerful gift it would be if an American company is able to sell them the latest tools of the trade.
Unfortunately the need for 'Harmonious relations' outweighs the need for a free press. It is quite difficult for Westerners to understand, unless they have lived there, and even then..
do you understand that if all data traffic has to go through chinese iphone provider, how much more profit can they make? it is apple begging for chinese market, not the other way around, your bonehead. there are tons of wifi cell phones in china, but iphone. in order to gain into the door, if chinese carrier wants apple to put shit on the iphone, they would do so. you know why? without iphone, they still can make zillions of money.
OK so maybe not quite so well thought out. Dude, read the post you are replying to again.
Don't assume that another culture's notion of "freedom" is the same as your own.
China is not homogenous at all. As another poster noted, you are thinking of Japan. There is a definite Han majority, but even the Han majority actually includes the larger non Han ethnic groups. The Chinese look for the similarities that draw people together, because that is where national strength comes from.... something that we in the West used to do, but sadly no longer.
Don't they sell iPod Touches in China? If so, I don't understand what blocking wi-fi on the iphone would do.
Anyone in China reading this who could explain?
As another poster noted, they certainly do sell Touch in China. The reason why the Chinese Govt don't mind the Wifi on the Touch, but are regulating the iPhone would have been obvious I would have thought? There is no camera on the Touch. It is very much a passive device. Sure you can post counter revolutionary thoughts onto the web, but it is the camera and audio capabilities connected with a wifi gateway that scares the regime. Instantaneous uploads of uncensored video or interviews, anywhere - are you joking? Sure, you can do the same thing with a laptop or other accessories, but it is the shear simplicity of sharing a/v content that is dangerous. Remember China is a huge conglomerate of languages/cultures - blogs etc have power but in a limited way. Everyone can understand a video, no matter what their level of language ability or cultural background.
OK I take that back, maybe not understand - but definitely see and form an opinion.
Wow. 'Insular,' 'nationliast,' 'racist'?!
Look in the mirror.
Dude, don't go down to his level. You know better than that.
Once the hobbled iPhone goes legal in China, the demand for the real one should skyrocket even more than it already is now.
China will unfortunately still require a heavy hand on it's population for quite some time.
How else can you force a population to reduce it's dangerously high numbers?
Look what the policy of opening up China to Western style standard of living has done.
1: Since China has no oil, it has to import it just like the US does. $147 a barrel of oil?, blame the Chinese primarily for the huge demand spike last year.
2: High cost for construction materials. Every went shopping at Home Depo lately? A little bag of nothing costs a fortune now. It's because China is shopping the world and sucking the limited resources of the world dry.
3: Deflation in the US. Jobs are being lost because they are going overseas to the abundance of cheap labor in China. No jobs = no money = nobody buys nothing = no jobs and the cycle continues.
The U.S. is finished economically and so is our high standard of living for nearly everyone. (relative to the rest of the world that is) It's all gone to China.
Whom ever sold out the US economy and made China favorite nation trade status should be tarred and feathered.
Another ignorant american talking crap here. How do you know China has no oil? Maybe you should check and you will realize that China is actually a large oil producing country. But the problem is they cannot produce enough for consumption, so that they have to import more. So please do some research before talking crap.
if you are talking about japan, then you are right, they don't have a drop of oil.
if you guys want to understand why the US is going bankrupt, just come here to this apple forum. You can clearly see the racist and xenophobic comments made by Americans.
Even today the Americans still discriminate against the natives, minorities and women. But they still they are superior during this economic recession, how pathetic? The only thing the Americans can do is to print more money.
Once the hobbled iPhone goes legal in China, the demand for the real one should skyrocket even more than it already is now.
China will unfortunately still require a heavy hand on it's population for quite some time.
How else can you force a population to reduce it's dangerously high numbers?
Look what the policy of opening up China to Western style standard of living has done.
1: Since China has no oil, it has to import it just like the US does. $147 a barrel of oil?, blame the Chinese primarily for the huge demand spike last year.
2: High cost for construction materials. Every went shopping at Home Depo lately? A little bag of nothing costs a fortune now. It's because China is shopping the world and sucking the limited resources of the world dry.
3: Deflation in the US. Jobs are being lost because they are going overseas to the abundance of cheap labor in China. No jobs = no money = nobody buys nothing = no jobs and the cycle continues.
The U.S. is finished economically and so is our high standard of living for nearly everyone. (relative to the rest of the world that is) It's all gone to China.
Whom ever sold out the US economy and made China favorite nation trade status should be tarred and feathered.
Try $60 a barrel.
http://burmalibrary.org/reg.burma/ar.../msg00200.html
READ UP hundreds of articles on chinese repression. .
The fact that yahoo and google and almost all internet power houses have helped the red chinese spy on there people sucks. Our silence is deaferning
Apple by taking off features MAY OR MAY NOT be guilty of aiding an communist govt in hurting its people. The chinese people and history are wonderful in many respects . And we have our own faults .
But we enjoy freedoms in the west that some risk there lives to obtain. And the red chinese govt. restricts those very same freedoms we take for granted .
Like this debate right now .
peace
9
Alot of people here know shit about china . First off the chinese govt is a repressive regime.You can be shot for being a Falung Gong member and have your wife sent an invoice for the bullet
http://burmalibrary.org/reg.burma/ar.../msg00200.html
READ UP hundreds of articles on chinese repression. .
The fact that yahoo and google and almost all internet power houses have helped the red chinese spy on there people sucks. Our silence is deaferning
Apple by taking off features MAY OR MAY NOT be guilty of aiding an communist govt in hurting its people. The chinese people and history are wonderful in many respects . And we have our own faults .
But we enjoy freedoms in the west that some risk there lives to obtain. And the red chinese govt. restricts those very same freedoms we take for granted .
Like this debate right now .
peace
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What you find repressive and backward, others might not.
When there is a revolution in China and the current regime is replaced by a Western-style democracy, let us know. America, Canada, Great Britain, etc., are not China.
Democracy is not compatible across the globe. Our ideas of "freedom" are a Western, Judaeo-Christian construction, and in fact don't bear much resemblance to ancient Hellenistic ideals.
And your use of "red China" and "red Chinese" seems more of a pejorative than an accurate label.
Our ideas of "freedom" are a Western, Judaeo-Christian construction, and in fact don't bear much resemblance to ancient Hellenistic ideals.
Not true.
There is a ton of information available both academically and for the layman, but here are a few easy to understand links for you that show the very strong foundation that ancient Greek democracy provided for the American model of government:
http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/showcase...dgreece10.html
First Democracy: Challenge of an Ancient Idea: http://www.amazon.com/First-Democrac...7403644&sr=8-7
Ancient Democracy and Modern Ideology: http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Democr...403644&sr=8-10
Furthermore, ancient forms of Chinese government and society are at least as different from today's China as ancient Greece is from today's America.
The only reason I bring this up is to show that, again, Chinese culture is not any older, more refined, or well thought-out than Western culture at all. (I do not mean this as a slight to Chinese culture or history, which are both fascinating and worth studying. Just saying there is no basis to claim it is superior to that of the west, as is often said by Chinese)
Can't wait to see what happens with the iPhone in China.
When there is a revolution in China and the current regime is replaced by a Western-style democracy, let us know. America, Canada, Great Britain, etc., are not China.
Democracy is not compatible across the globe. Our ideas of "freedom" are a Western, Judaeo-Christian construction, and in fact don't bear much resemblance to ancient Hellenistic ideals.
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Chinese practice thought control and have disarmed the citizenry, hence a redefining 'revolution' will probably not take place, just like in other totalitarian states such as Iran and Cuba. Speak up, go to jail. Fight back with your sticks and stones - Right!
Maybe YOUR idea of 'freedom' doesn't include self defense or free speech but you are pretty brazen to say that these are not compatable across the globe. Please provide some factual evidence this your statement is not complete nonsense, else I will dismiss your 'point' as a fantasy that you 'wish' were true about the nature of humankind 'across the globe.'
Maybe YOUR idea of 'freedom' doesn't include self defense or free speech but you are pretty brazen to say that these are not compatable across the globe.
Do you honestly think they are?? Do you honestly think everyone else thinks like you or aspires to think like you? I'd say THAT is pretty brazen.
Do you honestly think they are?? Do you honestly think everyone else thinks like you or aspires to think like you? I'd say THAT is pretty brazen.
It is pretty obvious that everyone wants freedom, free speech, the right to have a say in one's goverment, and the right to self defense. So I would say that in that context, I DO think that everyone wants what we here in America have. Please point me to a few examples where the man on the street does not share these human desires with those of us who live in the free world. I've been to Cuba, to see what a dictatorship looked and felt like, and I would only ask if you would like to live in fear of having your personal liberty taken away on a whim. Spend a few years in a 6x9 cell, and you will know how these states maintain power.
http://www.democracynow.org/1997/5/26/burma_update
Another ignorant american talking crap here. How do you know China has no oil? Maybe you should check and you will realize that China is actually a large oil producing country. But the problem is they cannot produce enough for consumption, so that they have to import more. So please do some research before talking crap.
if you are talking about japan, then you are right, they don't have a drop of oil.
if you guys want to understand why the US is going bankrupt, just come here to this apple forum. You can clearly see the racist and xenophobic comments made by Americans.
Even today the Americans still discriminate against the natives, minorities and women. But they still they are superior during this economic recession, how pathetic? The only thing the Americans can do is to print more money.
You're correct on the Oil. If we are to take the estimates from the CIA World book of Facts:
Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/CH.html
Oil - production:
3.725 million bbl/day (2008 est.)
Oil - consumption:
7.88 million bbl/day (2007 est.)
I'd imagine the consumption now is nearer 8.5 - 9 million bbl/day for 2009 est.