Why Japan's Smartphones Haven't Gone Global

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in iPhone edited January 2014
The conflict between Japan’s advanced hardware and its primitive software has contributed to some confusion over whether the Japanese find the iPhone cutting edge or boring. One analyst said they just aren’t used to handsets that connect to a computer.





Why Japan's Smartphones Haven't Gone Global
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  • Reply 1 of 21
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    So, the essence of the article is that Japanese cell phone makers are incompetent when it comes to selling cell phones in overseas markets?



    There is an interesting reverse phenomenon as it appears foreign cell phone makers (Nokia, Samsung, et al) don't have much success inside Japan. It could said that a 100m user marketplace isn't worth the effort to design a Japanese specific cellphone (and deal with Japanese operators), but really can't see the excuse for the reverse (Japanese cell phone makers selling overseas). Or perhaps it's more fair to say that Japanese cell phone makers didn't care about the overseas market instead of being incompetent.
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  • Reply 2 of 21
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I don't think the article is saying that the Japanese are incompetent. The article says several times that the Japanese make the most advanced phones in the world. The article is saying that Japanese phones have exclusively developed towards eccentric Japanese taste without consideration for the rest of the world. Its been well known and documented that the Japanese are not good at software or user interface design.



    Also having an insular market, you cannot integrate the best ideas from others. For years its been a bragging point of Japanese having over the air tuners on their phone to watch television. The truth this is not the best way to watch television on your phone.



    In the western world we are adopting video on demand through streaming and downloading of video content. Which allows the user to watch what ever they want, when ever they want. That makes it more convenient. New technologies such as http streaming are more energy efficient on the phones battery life than an over the air tuner. HTTP streaming will always work as long as there is a data connection. You are more likely to have a reliable data connection than a reliable television signal.
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  • Reply 3 of 21
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrike View Post


    So, the essence of the article is that Japanese cell phone makers are incompetent when it comes to selling cell phones in overseas markets?



    There is an interesting reverse phenomenon as it appears foreign cell phone makers (Nokia, Samsung, et al) don't have much success inside Japan. It could said that a 100m user marketplace isn't worth the effort to design a Japanese specific cellphone (and deal with Japanese operators), but really can't see the excuse for the reverse (Japanese cell phone makers selling overseas). Or perhaps it's more fair to say that Japanese cell phone makers didn't care about the overseas market instead of being incompetent.



    I don't think that's the essence, quite.



    It's more like the Japanese market is like the general cellphone market amplified, with "features" and "technology" completely overwhelming ease of use and integration.



    Worse, it sounds like the Japanese have gone all in with closed, carrier driven ecosystems, that have no chance of working outside of Japan.



    I remember some members here claiming the iPhone would have no chance in Japan, because the Japanese cell phone market was so far advanced it made the iPhone look like a toy. That the Japanese would never settle for a phone without a checklist of features that the Japanese both expected and demanded in a handset.



    And yet recent data suggest that the latest model is doing quite well. How can that be? Is it possible that even the tech happy Japanese might value ease of use and sophisticated, elegant software? That they might even be persuaded to forgo some "features" if it means getting a device that's actually fun to use?



    My understanding is that the average Japanese wonder-phone is a kitchen sink of difficult to use, fiddly bits. That there's a lot of stuff that, while being pointed to as evidence of the Japanese cellphones industry's advanced designs, don't actually get used that much by most people.



    I would imagine that an easy to use device might come as something of a revelation.
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  • Reply 4 of 21
    shrikeshrike Posts: 494member
    I don't know guys, incompetency, self-delusion, or business choice is exactly the way I would characterize it based on the article I read.



    When selling a phone in overseas markets, Japanese cell phone makers should know full well what market they are selling into, what features the market supports, and what solutions their cell phones provide to the market's users. This is not a secret business recipe.



    From the article, I read excuses that their handsets were so advanced that foreign markets didn't have the infrastructure to support their handsets' features. That the UI design and software is complicated. Maybe that's your typical engineer with blinders on problem, but their company isn't run by engineers. They may used to be engineers, but the managers certainly don't do engineering anymore, and should be in the business of running the company. They should at least know the foreign market's culture or understand basic tenets of human behavior, or understand the basic usage and behavior of their own handsets as used in Japan (it really won't be that different from everywhere else in the world except for the infrastructure differences) and try to exploit it in other markets by providing a solution. If it is an economic situation driven by Japan's operators, well, foreign markets don't have the same operators.



    When I hear Sharp, NEC, etc, aren't successful in Europe, for example, because their handsets are uniquely designed for Japanese wireless infrastructure and the design isn't suitable for non-Japanese usage (Europe tends to like candy bar phones, Japanese love features regardless of UI/design deficiency, and others won't suffer through it), my skepticism meter kicks up.



    What are they trying to do? Sell the same Japanese phone with features that no other market supports? That's just stupid. Without those features, a Japanese company can't come out with a competing handset that'll compete with Nokia, Samsung or LG? Really doubt that.
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  • Reply 5 of 21
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    And yet recent data suggest that the latest model is doing quite well. How can that be? Is it possible that even the tech happy Japanese might value ease of use and sophisticated, elegant software? That they might even be persuaded to forgo some "features" if it means getting a device that's actually fun to use?



    That ranking has to deserve more explanation.



    The data comes from live scans from cash registers --- so it's REAL sales, not some sort of idiotic survey. But the weekly ranking (of all cell phones, not just smartphones) is also very volatile, here is the latest BCN ranking with the 32 GB iphone 3Gs at number 1.



    http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0010.html



    Why is this live real sales ranking so volatile? Because every cell phone they sell in Japan is a carrier-specific exclusive --- and the ranking reflects that.



    It would be very volatile in the US as well if they individually rank the sales data of a Verizon RAZR, AT&T RAZR, T-Mobile RAZR, Sprint RAZR separately.



    While the 32 GB iphone 3Gs is ranked number 1 this week in Japan --- you just have to take into account that Japan has 8 different cell phone manufacturers selling cell phones as exclusive models. A very fragmented market in Japan --- so that number 1 ranking isn't that hard to achieve.
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  • Reply 6 of 21
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Gadget lovers dreams that are difficult as hell to use isn't necessarily advanced. Japan hands down has the worlds best phones from a spec-whore perspective. But when has winning the spec-whore competition guaranteed a superior product?
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  • Reply 7 of 21
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Regarding UI --- while it may take normal people a long time to navigate through the menu of a flip phone, teenagers are very fast with their short cuts. These kids just flip open a cell phone, press the menu button, press 4, press 3 and then hit enter.



    You may think that their UI is primitive --- but these kids are going to be faster than you for sending a SMS.
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  • Reply 8 of 21
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    Regarding UI --- while it may take normal people a long time to navigate through the menu of a flip phone, teenagers are very fast with their short cuts. These kids just flip open a cell phone, press the menu button, press 4, press 3 and then hit enter.



    You may think that their UI is primitive --- but these kids are going to be faster than you for sending a SMS.



    Sure, but what happens when the tech enables new functionalities that become increasingly difficult to access with that UI? Do the SMS nijas of today just get swept aside by new kids that have mastered something else?



    The next generation of teens after this one might grow up which such tech and be practiced users by the time they hit high school, but is wave after wave of generational obsolescence really the way to go? Is it really necessary to make devices so complex that you have to have a youthful brain to master them, and is there any reason for us to accept that state of affairs as normal?
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  • Reply 9 of 21
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    That ranking has to deserve more explanation.



    The data comes from live scans from cash registers --- so it's REAL sales, not some sort of idiotic survey. But the weekly ranking (of all cell phones, not just smartphones) is also very volatile, here is the latest BCN ranking with the 32 GB iphone 3Gs at number 1.



    http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0010.html



    Why is this live real sales ranking so volatile? Because every cell phone they sell in Japan is a carrier-specific exclusive --- and the ranking reflects that.



    It would be very volatile in the US as well if they individually rank the sales data of a Verizon RAZR, AT&T RAZR, T-Mobile RAZR, Sprint RAZR separately.



    While the 32 GB iphone 3Gs is ranked number 1 this week in Japan --- you just have to take into account that Japan has 8 different cell phone manufacturers selling cell phones as exclusive models. A very fragmented market in Japan --- so that number 1 ranking isn't that hard to achieve.



    There are a couple of updated links in that article that suggest that the iPhone has held on to the #1 spot for two or three weeks running now (as well as a link explaining that being top dog for a week isn't that big a deal).



    So I guess we'll see; at the very least the iPhone isn't a non-starter, as was being bandied about at one point.
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  • Reply 10 of 21
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    The UI on Japanese phones is ungodly! What good is a feature if you can't easily access it and make good use of it?
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  • Reply 11 of 21
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post


    The UI on Japanese phones is ungodly! What good is a feature if you can't easily access it and make good use of it?



    Like I say, it's the general cellphone industry on steroids.



    Kids can master what they want, adults assume there's something wrong with them that they can't remember the sequence of button presses and go on ignoring all that glorious "functionality."



    That's where the iPhone is different. My mom can use it. My mom can't figure out how to check voice mail on a basic LG flip phone.
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  • Reply 12 of 21
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    This happens all the time in business. The world is not static, everything changes. Japanese handset makers provided phones their customers wanted. Now that market is no longer viable and they need to change. This is normal.



    What would be incompetant is to not adjust to the reality of the situation and drive your company out of business. But it's likely some Japanes phone maker will leave the market.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shrike View Post


    I don't know guys, incompetency, self-delusion, or business choice is exactly the way I would characterize it based on the article I read.



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  • Reply 13 of 21
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    There is no reason to accept a bad UI. Within the nature of competition someone was going to invent a better UI and take the market by storm.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    You may think that their UI is primitive --- but these kids are going to be faster than you for sending a SMS.



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  • Reply 14 of 21
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    There is no reason to accept a bad UI. Within the nature of competition someone was going to invent a better UI and take the market by storm.



    Always pertinent: http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...tupid_piece_of
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  • Reply 15 of 21
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    iPhone will never be very big in Japan because Apple doesn't allow porn.



    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=akPpDyuQjAAM
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  • Reply 16 of 21
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    All of the tools are available to create web apps that feel exactly like native apps. You don't have to support individual apps for every mobile platform. I'm surprised it's taking porn companies so long to adapt to mobile distribution.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    iPhone will never be very big in Japan because Apple doesn't allow porn.



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  • Reply 17 of 21
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    iPhone will never be very big in Japan because Apple doesn't allow porn.



    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=akPpDyuQjAAM



    They should look at the Tumblr app - it is a virtual torrent of filth!



    C.



    (if you follow the right feeds)
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  • Reply 18 of 21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    Regarding UI --- while it may take normal people a long time to navigate through the menu of a flip phone, teenagers are very fast with their short cuts. These kids just flip open a cell phone, press the menu button, press 4, press 3 and then hit enter.



    You may think that their UI is primitive --- but these kids are going to be faster than you for sending a SMS.



    Really?
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  • Reply 19 of 21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post


    The UI on Japanese phones is ungodly! What good is a feature if you can't easily access it and make good use of it?



    By the time you try to type an sms, i would have made a call, typed a text message and played tap tap on my iPhone..
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  • Reply 20 of 21
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,954member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    The conflict between Japan’s advanced hardware and its primitive software has contributed to some confusion over whether the Japanese find the iPhone cutting edge or boring. One analyst said they just aren’t used to handsets that connect to a computer.





    Why Japan's Smartphones Haven't Gone Global



    Most phones in the US weren't connected to a computer either. There were connection kits, but they tended to cost $60 or more. I saw one where you buy the cable for $50 and the software for $50. For a phone that costed me all of about $50.



    I think you can use the iPhone without ever connecting it to a computer, but you'll still need a computer to update the OS.



    I'm sure there are lots of nuances to the Japanese market. As far as I understand, the Japanese market is considered to be a test market for several of the Japanese companies. They release early, release often, lots of variations to see what takes hold and what features are most desirable.
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