Steve Ballmer calls Apple's Mac growth a "rounding error"

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  • Reply 81 of 272
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lazy-i.com View Post


    The fact is that most people commenting on this thread from a Fortune 500 office are doing it on a PC because their Fortune 500 company -- along with most Fortune 500 companies -- is locked into MS, and it doesn't look like that will ever change... or does it?



    I would be interested to see how many Fortune 500s are still on XP these days. If a large company is going to have to make a seismic adjustment to get Windows 7 (assuming they never even bothered with Vista), which will involve replacing tens of thousands of PCs, they might as well consider Macs.



    Could Apple market a sensible alternative to Windows 7 for the business environment? Would the long-term cost be lower considering the amount of time/cost/manpower it takes to support MS in the enterprise?





    i work in IT and played with Vista and i've been running windows 7 since the beta.



    biggest problem was the checkpoint VPN software, no x64 version. ours is years old and it ran just fine on x86 Vista and Windows 7. Checkpoint did make a special update to it when Vista came out and i ran the Vista version on Windows 7. if you run x64 then just use free vmware or the XP mode in windows 7.



    AV software was another one, but this always happens with a new OS version. everyone has support contracts with symantec at $18 a seat per year and you get all new versions as they are released.



    any PC from the last 5 years will run Vista and Windows 7. i'm running Vista Ultimate on an old P4 desktop in the office. and installed it on my mom's 5 year old Dell Inspiron and it runs just fine. Windows 7 is faster and hardware won't be an issue. Just upgrade to 2GB RAM which is like $20.



    Nice feature about SL is the Exchange 2007 support. But that means you have to upgrade to Exchange 2007 or later if you haven't and that is very expensive if you don't have the MS rent a software plan which is like $400 per employee per year. We priced out Exchange 2007 and it was like $250,000 for our medium sized company. Most of it in the form of new versions of MS Outlook. Exchange 2010 looks even better and that's where most of the upgrades will probably take place.



    the strength of Windows on the desktop is that if you run Windows Server 2008 and later you get a lot of nice management features that you may not get with Mac's.
  • Reply 82 of 272
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by egbokalaka View Post


    Microsoft seems to be acutely aware of this deficiency. They've found an effective marketing message recently, asserting that Windows based PCs provide better values than Macintosh does. This is a good message to trumpet in a recession like the current one, that squeezes consumers hard. But over the long term, It has the disadvantage of conceding Apple's main point: that Macintosh is higher quality. Over the longer term this is a dangerous pitch. If the quality and usability of Windows+non-Microsoft hardware doesn't improve significantly, meaning that the actual quality gap between Wintel and Mac will persist, then the twin barreled weapons of truth and marketing smarts could do significant damage to Microsoft's brand. This is the outcome Ballmer is trying to deflect. It's not dumb, though it's a bit pathetic.



    Yes, I agree -- I've also been saying this for a long time. The problem is that Microsoft hasn't got the kind of motivation they require do fight their way out of this box. I mean, they've been living in a velvet prison for so long, how much motivation would they have? Ballmer's comments just ice that cake. As if we didn't know it already, they are more accustomed to sneering at the competition than actually competing with them. It's worked for decades, so why not?



    This company has 20 years of bad habits to conquer. I don't really think they can do it without a major overhaul, from top to bottom. They need to start at the top. Ballmer has to go.
  • Reply 83 of 272
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member
    IMHO, Steve Ballmer would do well to start acting a little more grown up and like a Fortune 500 CEO ought to. Sure, we only hear tidbits of everything he has to say in the course of a day but in that position, even little tidbits need to be carefully considered. Maybe it's just some shtick to make his employees think they are working for a cool and brash company. Guess what? They aren't.



    What has to be alarming to Microsoft investors is Ballmer's preoccupation with Apple. All he's doing is drawing more attention to his competitor when, in fact, his competitor happens to make his own company look worse than it probably is. Seems senseless to me.



    Lastly, why talk in terms of your company being a PC supplier when you aren't? Ballmer claims Apple computers are too expensive but, in reality, it should make him happy that they are expensive. If, all of a sudden, Apple lowered their prices by 15% across the board it's only going to result in fewer people buying Windows-based computers. If I'm Ballmer, I'd want Apple computers to be even more expensive than they are today.



    Lastly, if I'm running HP, Dell, or another PC maker... would I want this guy running around talking about my hardware? Heck no. I'd want Ballmer talking about how great Windows is and then delivering on what he says.
  • Reply 84 of 272
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eksodos View Post


    Microsoft makes its money from volume OEM sales and corporate. They get a fraction of the retail price with the volume discounts.



    They only sell a tiny, tiny, tiny amount of Microsoft Windows at retail. That is probably going to change a bit with Windows 7 given how fantastic it runs on older hardware. For the first time in a long time, you can actually improve the performance of your computer by updating to the latest version of Microsoft Windows.



    Maybe, we'll have to see about that. I'm not going to say that you are wrong, but I'll be VERY impressed if Windows 7 actually runs "Good" on my Dell Latitude D620 with 2gig of RAM. I haven't been impressed with M$ since Windows 98 (of course remember that the bar at that time was pretty low).



    --LanPhantom
  • Reply 85 of 272
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phalanx View Post


    Sure. Whatever you want to believe. btw, Santa Claus isn't real.



    I think the success of the latest Microsoft ads proves me right. Apple's Mac has been wallowing in the sub 10% market share for 20 years, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Microsoft is coming off of one of its worst years and still made more profits than Apple. It is hard for Microsoft to grow its market share when it has it all. I'm sure you believe that Apple will have 90% market share soon and Microsoft will will go bankrupt. When you don't have a grip on reality anything seems possible.



    Success of the latest MS marketing campaign ads has been reported by AdAge, the magazine for the advertising industry, who sure love to see more dollars spent on advertising. So if you want to hear that advertising works go ask the advertising industry.



    Apple has been cherry picking the top of the PC market for years, they aren't interested in the morons who can't work out that higher upfront price = lower TCO.



    Microsoft is a criminal organization, don't believe me, believe what the courts have said in judgment.



    Believe me about this though, morons buying your product are a pain in the ass. Dealing with people who understand what they are buying is much easier, much more rewarding for both parties.



    It isn't just rich people either. Rich people can drop $1000 and not think about it too much still if you let them down they don't come back, they are less swayed by advertising. Some poorer people save, research and buy more expensive products that they have determined to be superior.



    Advertising sux, if you believe what the advertising industry says you are welcome to the world of the most advertised products.



    I used to believe that Microsoft would end up as some investment/venture capital type organization but with Barmy in charge total collapse is more likely. I refer you to PanAm, once the world's largest airline, six months later gone - poof. Why? - security issues.



    .
  • Reply 86 of 272
    The largest growth sector for Apple is younger people with more disposable income. This, my friends, is why Apple is a threat. Right now most business owners are not willing to learn a new OS and train their staff on the new OS. But in 20 years, this more "Apple affluent" generation will be making the business decisions. And how many Mac users do you know that have switched to a PC?



    There is an entire older generation that had to learn how to use a computer, and most of them that I know are just too afraid to learn a completely new OS. Mostly for fear that it will interrupt their current business workflow and because they have better things to do with their time and money.



    I'm not saying there aren't plenty of devout young Windows fans. I'm just saying there will probably be more of a willingness down the road for businesses to accept Macs into their environment as the general population becomes more aware of Apple as a computing platform.
  • Reply 87 of 272
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LanPhantom View Post


    Maybe, we'll have to see about that. I'm not going to say that you are wrong, but I'll be VERY impressed if Windows 7 actually runs "Good" on my Dell Latitude D620 with 2gig of RAM. I haven't been impressed with M$ since Windows 98 (of course remember that the bar at that time was pretty low).



    --LanPhantom





    Vista Home Premium SP2 runs very nicely on my mom's Dell Inspiron 6000 with 2GB RAM. uses just over 1GB of RAM with Skype and Symantec End Point running.
  • Reply 88 of 272
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    Let's count how many viruses on the Mac vs. Windows shall we?????



    Who wins?!
  • Reply 89 of 272
    woofpupwoofpup Posts: 31member
    I just want to know who decided Ballmer would be the best public face for Microsoft. His arrogance and overall presence just makes me all the more happy to go to competitors and prove him wrong.
  • Reply 90 of 272
    lungalunga Posts: 23member
    ...is what Steve should have said. He's not understanding the point that just talking about Apple means utter failure.



    It's really sad.



    Microsoft is an IT juggernaut with lots of products in lots of markets and the only thing on their mind is a boutique computer and entertainment company.



    Microsoft needs to stop worrying about one lousy ad campaign or what type of consumer they should be attracting and concentrate on the big picture.



    Without real innovation and product growth, they're not going to attract any segment of the market.
  • Reply 91 of 272
    steviet02steviet02 Posts: 594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank View Post


    Let's count how many viruses on the Mac vs. Windows shall we?????



    Who wins?!



    lets swap market share and see what happens. You come off sounding like its impossible to write software to infiltrate Apple computers. You're wrong, it's just not a concentrated effort.
  • Reply 92 of 272
    cu10cu10 Posts: 294member
  • Reply 93 of 272
    Steve, without Apple who would you copy? Microsoft gives off the aura of a computing giant of the past. I recall back in the 70's the arrogance of a dominant three letter computer company, a deja vu moment for Microsoft.
  • Reply 94 of 272
    gee4orcegee4orce Posts: 165member
    It's times like this when Apple's very strict, very low key PR policy pays real dividends. Here's Balmer falling over himself to talk down the latest competition, whether it's Google or Apple or Linux or whatever, and in the mean time, his competitors - and Apple especially - are just letting their products do the talking.



    So, Mr Balmer - keep talking.



    Nobody's listening.

  • Reply 95 of 272
    gustavgustav Posts: 827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    lets swap market share and see what happens. You come off sounding like its impossible to write software to infiltrate Apple computers. You're wrong, it's just not a concentrated effort.



    Can you imagine the fame and ego-inflation for the first person to write a successful virus for Macs? If you write a virus for Windows, nobody notices. If you write one for Mac, everyone notices.



    Do you really think that there's no effort to write a virus for Macs?
  • Reply 96 of 272
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Can you imagine the fame and ego-inflation for the first person to write a successful virus for Macs? If you write a virus for Windows, nobody notices. If you write one for Mac, everyone notices.



    Do you really think that there's no effort to write a virus for Macs?



    there are already Mac viruses. there is even a Mac only botnet with a lot of hosts on it and i bet most of the owners don't even know they're infected. google mac botnet and you will see.
  • Reply 97 of 272
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,982member
    The emotional side of me hates Ballmer as much as any other apple-red blooded enthusiast. But honestly, he is just doing what most all CEOs do. As the water creeps up past the portholes of the Titanic you glibly inform the passengers that everything is under control. It's just part of the script that you are expected to stick to. It's the corporate game. After all, no matter what happens, he's covered. If M$ goes belly-up tomorrow he'll retire to the south of France with more money in the bank than you or I can even imagine.
  • Reply 98 of 272
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    Ballmer is the only one that believes what he's saying. Maybe Ballmer should believe the audience and the poll that Apple is a better product.
  • Reply 99 of 272
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    "At least when Apple attacks us, the primary attack that comes from Apple is, 'Hey, at the end of the day, we have the coolest hardware,'" he said.



    Actually, very little of Apple's advertising is about cool hardware. Lately, the iPhone ads have been about features and software, not hardware design. And many of the Mac v PC commercials about about usability, viruses, security, etc. Have they ever even shown Mac hardware in those commercials?



    It seems the only ones saying Apple has cool hardware is MS. Ballmer's saying it. Their laptop hunter commercials are saying it. Apple should be thanking them.
  • Reply 100 of 272
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by phalanx View Post


    They advertise against Apple because there is no one else to advertise against. That is why the they bailed them out financially years ago. Apple makes Windows PC more appealing. People like to get a bargin. That is why the sell so many Chevy's.





    EXACTLY



    Also msft sells a ton of msft SW to apple clients. So why is he placing ads against his cust base ??



    NO soup for balmer
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