I’ve read them, and after porting Mac OS X to iPhone OS X making a new OS that somewhere in between would be child’s play for Apple, but I still haven’t read about an app or any advantage that a tablet would offer to make it a viable business move. Remember, AppleInsider has also been saying that the Mac Mini is going to be canceled for a couple years now. Rumors are still just rumours.
Prior to the iPhones release, all people could think of was a phone with a clickwheel. They couldn't think outside the box, they couldn't think beyond a phone and an iPod. Now most people can't think beyond an iPhone and a conventional tablet.
My point is that us not being able to visualize what this tablet will do is not an effective argument against its existence.
To be fair, Apple probably was considering retiring the mini as they didn't update the thing for two years but you are right. Rumors are just rumors. However, the quantity of rumors can't be ignored either.
Something that's been brewing in my mind over the weekend. I know there's been a lot of talk regarding alternate versions of the iphone, most specifically the nano. Now, I've never been a proponent of these alternate form factors, as any smaller and the screen becomes very difficult to use and read, and much larger and it's cumbersome to hold and use as a phone.
Now, I don't think I've read anywhere that people are imagining that this iTablet device would be a phone, cause who could imagine holding a 10" screen to the side of your head. BUT! What if an integral part of the iTablet is that it IS a phone, or at least has all the components of a phone, except that the "phone" functionality is accessed through a bluetooth headset. With some enhanced functionality, you'd exclusively use voice commands via the headset to make and receive calls, and if you need to access your contacts you can still look at the tablet, but there's no need for you to raise it to your ear! And as a phone [in function if not in form] it could be sold subsidized just like the iphone is, making it more affordable to more people. And because it IS a phone, more people might trade up to the iTablet, rather than looking at it as a device that falls into a grey area that they don't necessarily need- between their iPhone and Laptop.
It doesn't have to be a phone to be subsidized. All it needs is a 3G/4G chip for wireless internet. Then it could be subsidized with a data plan. I highly doubt it will be a phone in any sense. People wouldn't want to carry something that big all the time, so you would need another phone anyway (who wants two phones?), and they would want to differentiate this from an iPhone so they don't directly compete against each other. The closest you will come to a phone in such a tablet will be 3G and skype.
Ha, I love this line. I just imagine all other manufacturers nervously waiting what Apple will come up with, so that they immediately can start following the leader...
Something that's been brewing in my mind over the weekend. I know there's been a lot of talk regarding alternate versions of the iphone, most specifically the nano. Now, I've never been a proponent of these alternate form factors, as any smaller and the screen becomes very difficult to use and read, and much larger and it's cumbersome to hold and use as a phone.
Now, I don't think I've read anywhere that people are imagining that this iTablet device would be a phone, cause who could imagine holding a 10" screen to the side of your head. BUT! What if an integral part of the iTablet is that it IS a phone, or at least has all the components of a phone, except that the "phone" functionality is accessed through a bluetooth headset. With some enhanced functionality, you'd exclusively use voice commands via the headset to make and receive calls, and if you need to access your contacts you can still look at the tablet, but there's no need for you to raise it to your ear! And as a phone [in function if not in form] it could be sold subsidized just like the iphone is, making it more affordable to more people. And because it IS a phone, more people might trade up to the iTablet, rather than looking at it as a device that falls into a grey area that they don't necessarily need- between their iPhone and Laptop.
Or with a tablet form-factor. The key is weight and size. As light and small as possible. Great for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations (video-out is a must).
Overview of OQO product:
"
The OQO model 2+ is designed to deliver the total computing performance necessary to achieve personal and professional productivity, anytime and anywhere.
With Intel® Atom? processing power, the compatibility and security of a full Microsoft® Windows® operating system, and unparalleled connectivity options, the OQO model 2+ is everything you need to meet your total productivity requirements.
"
That is not going to work well. Plenty of room for Apple. :-)
What if the phone like function was Ichat. Wasn't there a rumor about a forward facing camera? Since we are mindlessly speculating, a large ipod touch with Ichat, too large to really walk around with in front of your face, just large enough to hold and surf with in you lap or while standing still, but small enough to prop on the desk, with a wireless service plan available. Call over and back to the itunes. Bluetooth keyboard use optional. A sort of Kindle with real power.
Prior to the iPhones release, all people could think of was a phone with a clickwheel. They couldn't think outside the box, they couldn't think beyond a phone and an iPod. Now most people can't think beyond an iPhone and a conventional tablet.
My point is that us not being able to visualize what this tablet will do is not an effective argument against its existence.
To be fair, Apple probably was considering retiring the mini as they didn't update the thing for two years but you are right. Rumors are just rumors. However, the quantity of rumors can't be ignored either.
I agree that the number of rumors being presented do lead to a likelihood of a new device with a ~10? display. The rumors of the iPhone were rampant for months prior to its release and even though there was no absolution before the reveal it was a good bet that it was going to come.
The difference I see here is that the iPhone did have a plethora of mockups before its release, many of which were completely touch-based in design. My problem is still that it solves no problem. I can?t use a 10? touchscreen effectively with most Mac apps, and the ones I can are too simple to even be considered game changers for this device. I also would have to use half the display for the keyboard and insofar have no feedback as to what button I?m pressing, which makes it worse off than even those crappy netbooks.
Surely if this was to be viable for the consumer market there would be some ingenious ideas thrown out by the public at large by now and made into a mockup, yet all I?ve seen is the same crappy tablet that is a a little thinner and sleeker with a Mac OS X thrown on top instead of Windows. That isn?t even a game player, much less a game changer.
As cool as such devices are, they just aren?t practical for consumers in the way they have been presented. It seems obvious that this would be a different OS X branch and that would require a different SDK. Apple has experience with both so announcing the new product for release in a few months with new SDK ready now for developers shouldn?t be a problem for Apple. They have wrapped up there other OS builds pretty well which would give them the time to focus on it, but it still needs something that would make me want to not use my 13? MBP, not use my IPhone, or use it in conjunction with both of those devices.
It?s not so much about vision as it about logistics. We all knew that a phone from Apple would be pretty cool. We had used their iPods and knew it would cannibalize them to a degree.
What if the phone like function was Ichat. Wasn't there a rumor about a forward facing camera? Since we are mindlessly speculating, a large ipod touch with Ichat, too large to really walk around with in front of your face, just large enough to hold and surf with in you lap or while standing still, but small enough to prop on the desk, with a wireless service plan available. Call over and back to the itunes. Bluetooth keyboard use optional. A sort of Kindle with real power.
Just Think'in
A front facing camera is quite likely imo. I believe the iphone and ipod touch will eventually get a front facing camera, so it seems likely that the device bridging the gap between macbooks and iphones would as well.
And neither iPhone OS X nor Mac OS X will work, so there would have to be a new OS X class made,
i don't know about a new class. but perhaps a half way between the phone and desktop. i highly doubt that any netbook/tablet is going to be meant, at least at first, to be a full scale computer. an overgrown ipod touch with some basic 'computer' tasks (word processing and the like) sure. but I highly doubt anyone at Apple would think to create a computer for full on tasks like running pro apps etc. eventually perhaps, but not at the moment.
and using a flavor of the phone os might open up this device to the various games and such that are all the rage on the iphone/ipod. i imagine resizing wouldn't be too hard for many of the apps.
the only thing I see as a must for this and really all laptops is a built in cell data antenna not tied to any one service (in addition to the wifi). let folks pick what they want. although the current contract with ATT might not allow this so any such devices might not be released until that contract is over (and ATT can't say anything).
Indeed, rumors are only rumors. They provide no good argument for or against. But neither does your "no killer app argument". Your logic has holes all over the place.
I agree that the number of rumors being presented do lead to a likelihood of a new device with a ~10” display. The rumors of the iPhone were rampant for months prior to its release and even though there was no absolution before the reveal it was a good bet that it was going to come.
The difference I see here is that the iPhone did have a plethora of mockups before its release, many of which were completely touch-based in design. My problem is still that it solves no problem. I can’t use a 10” touchscreen effectively with most Mac apps, and the ones I can are too simple to even be considered game changers for this device. I also would have to use half the display for the keyboard and insofar have no feedback as to what button I’m pressing, which makes it worse off than even those crappy netbooks.
Surely if this was to be viable for the consumer market there would be some ingenious ideas thrown out by the public at large by now and made into a mockup, yet all I’ve seen is the same crappy tablet that is a a little thinner and sleeker with a Mac OS X thrown on top instead of Windows. That isn’t even a game player, much less a game changer.
As cool as such devices are, they just aren’t practical for consumers in the way they have been presented. It seems obvious that this would be a different OS X branch and that would require a different SDK. Apple has experience with both so announcing the new product for release in a few months with new SDK ready now for developers shouldn’t be a problem for Apple. They have wrapped up there other OS builds pretty well which would give them the time to focus on it, but it still needs something that would make me want to not use my 13” MBP, not use my IPhone, or use it in conjunction with both of those devices.
It’s not so much about vision as it about logistics. We all knew that a phone from Apple would be pretty cool. We had used their iPods and knew it would cannibalize them to a degree.
Maybe we will see better rumors as we approach the annoucement date (if that actually exists). Rumors suggest the earliest the anouncement would be is September, that is still a month away. The juicy rumors often don't come until right before the announcement.
I'll try to post some ideas that I have for what I think the tablet should be a little later when I have the time. I do see some unserved markets that could be exploited by a tablet.
7 inch widescreen touchscreen - 1cm thick - running a special and third iteration of OSX - a hybrid OSX/iPhone OS - I'll lay money on it...
This baby will dock directly into the side of a forthcoming imac and act as a video mac touchpad...
docking for charging and data transfer, perhaps.
as for the 'killer' aspects. solid state memory at a decent price and capacity and a screen that can handle real HD would be gone. better touch screen gestures including perhaps also 'ink' (you could have a small stylus in a slot in one side) wouldn't hurt. forward facing camera and as I said, both wifi and cell connection capabilities. all this together might be enough to push someone to such a device. particularly if they don't have a current laptop and are in the market.
i don't know about a new class. but perhaps a half way between the phone and desktop.
That would be a new class. More rich frameworks and extenstions like inMac OS X, but with a UI and apps that are fully functional using your fingers, like in iPhone OS X. Putting iPhone OS X on a 10? display would like horrible and trying to use Mac OS X on a 10? device with your fingers would be frustrating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr
Indeed, rumors are only rumors. They provide no good argument for or against. But neither does your "no killer app argument". Your logic has holes all over the place.
It?s not illogical to conceive of a business model for a product, just not the geeky desires of Star Trek generation. Without a viable business model that makes people need the device, or at least want the device because it will make their life easier, then the market is nothing more than a flash in the pan niche, of which there are plenty of cool but useless products we can use as examples.
Our inability to conceive of the ?killer app? doesn?t mean there isn?t one and it certainly doesn?t mean there doesn?t have to be one because you can?t think of it.
Prior to the iPhones release, all people could think of was a phone with a clickwheel. They couldn't think outside the box, they couldn't think beyond a phone and an iPod. Now most people can't think beyond an iPhone and a conventional tablet.
My point is that us not being able to visualize what this tablet will do is not an effective argument against its existence.
Superb point there. In a lot of the judgments we are forming about this product, we seem to be limited to what we have seen and experienced already.
Sheesh with that many guesses, you might as well add 5, 6, 8, and 11 inches to cover all the bases.
That's what she said.
But seriously anyone who doesn't think this has been in the works for a long long time is probably out of touch with reality, apple would not buy large quantities of screens if they didn't already have something in mind and a form factor in place to fit said screen. "Oh let's buy 100,000 10" screens for the fun of it!"
I'm sure they bought 10 or 12 and worked out a form factor before deciding on which to place actual production orders for, even if the production is in the future, they must have plans for them already. Also the fact, if true, that they have bought enough of anything for a production runs means the form factor is set and it's software / bug issue at this phase.
But then what do I know since I'm not a 16yr fanboy and have had some real world exp in these things
Comments
I’ve read them, and after porting Mac OS X to iPhone OS X making a new OS that somewhere in between would be child’s play for Apple, but I still haven’t read about an app or any advantage that a tablet would offer to make it a viable business move. Remember, AppleInsider has also been saying that the Mac Mini is going to be canceled for a couple years now. Rumors are still just rumours.
Prior to the iPhones release, all people could think of was a phone with a clickwheel. They couldn't think outside the box, they couldn't think beyond a phone and an iPod. Now most people can't think beyond an iPhone and a conventional tablet.
My point is that us not being able to visualize what this tablet will do is not an effective argument against its existence.
To be fair, Apple probably was considering retiring the mini as they didn't update the thing for two years but you are right. Rumors are just rumors. However, the quantity of rumors can't be ignored either.
Something that's been brewing in my mind over the weekend. I know there's been a lot of talk regarding alternate versions of the iphone, most specifically the nano. Now, I've never been a proponent of these alternate form factors, as any smaller and the screen becomes very difficult to use and read, and much larger and it's cumbersome to hold and use as a phone.
Now, I don't think I've read anywhere that people are imagining that this iTablet device would be a phone, cause who could imagine holding a 10" screen to the side of your head. BUT! What if an integral part of the iTablet is that it IS a phone, or at least has all the components of a phone, except that the "phone" functionality is accessed through a bluetooth headset. With some enhanced functionality, you'd exclusively use voice commands via the headset to make and receive calls, and if you need to access your contacts you can still look at the tablet, but there's no need for you to raise it to your ear! And as a phone [in function if not in form] it could be sold subsidized just like the iphone is, making it more affordable to more people. And because it IS a phone, more people might trade up to the iTablet, rather than looking at it as a device that falls into a grey area that they don't necessarily need- between their iPhone and Laptop.
It doesn't have to be a phone to be subsidized. All it needs is a 3G/4G chip for wireless internet. Then it could be subsidized with a data plan. I highly doubt it will be a phone in any sense. People wouldn't want to carry something that big all the time, so you would need another phone anyway (who wants two phones?), and they would want to differentiate this from an iPhone so they don't directly compete against each other. The closest you will come to a phone in such a tablet will be 3G and skype.
.... "As usual, exact timing is always tough to pinpoint as Apple works on its own schedule."...
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Ha, I love this line. I just imagine all other manufacturers nervously waiting what Apple will come up with, so that they immediately can start following the leader...
Something that's been brewing in my mind over the weekend. I know there's been a lot of talk regarding alternate versions of the iphone, most specifically the nano. Now, I've never been a proponent of these alternate form factors, as any smaller and the screen becomes very difficult to use and read, and much larger and it's cumbersome to hold and use as a phone.
Now, I don't think I've read anywhere that people are imagining that this iTablet device would be a phone, cause who could imagine holding a 10" screen to the side of your head. BUT! What if an integral part of the iTablet is that it IS a phone, or at least has all the components of a phone, except that the "phone" functionality is accessed through a bluetooth headset. With some enhanced functionality, you'd exclusively use voice commands via the headset to make and receive calls, and if you need to access your contacts you can still look at the tablet, but there's no need for you to raise it to your ear! And as a phone [in function if not in form] it could be sold subsidized just like the iphone is, making it more affordable to more people. And because it IS a phone, more people might trade up to the iTablet, rather than looking at it as a device that falls into a grey area that they don't necessarily need- between their iPhone and Laptop.
Bingo
It would be great to have the full Mac OS X inside a 300 to 400 g device that is pocketable. Much as the OQO model 2+
http://www.oqo.com
Or with a tablet form-factor. The key is weight and size. As light and small as possible. Great for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations (video-out is a must).
Overview of OQO product:
"
The OQO model 2+ is designed to deliver the total computing performance necessary to achieve personal and professional productivity, anytime and anywhere.
With Intel® Atom? processing power, the compatibility and security of a full Microsoft® Windows® operating system, and unparalleled connectivity options, the OQO model 2+ is everything you need to meet your total productivity requirements.
"
That is not going to work well. Plenty of room for Apple. :-)
This baby will dock directly into the side of a forthcoming imac and act as a video mac touchpad...
Just Think'in
Prior to the iPhones release, all people could think of was a phone with a clickwheel. They couldn't think outside the box, they couldn't think beyond a phone and an iPod. Now most people can't think beyond an iPhone and a conventional tablet.
My point is that us not being able to visualize what this tablet will do is not an effective argument against its existence.
To be fair, Apple probably was considering retiring the mini as they didn't update the thing for two years but you are right. Rumors are just rumors. However, the quantity of rumors can't be ignored either.
I agree that the number of rumors being presented do lead to a likelihood of a new device with a ~10? display. The rumors of the iPhone were rampant for months prior to its release and even though there was no absolution before the reveal it was a good bet that it was going to come.
The difference I see here is that the iPhone did have a plethora of mockups before its release, many of which were completely touch-based in design. My problem is still that it solves no problem. I can?t use a 10? touchscreen effectively with most Mac apps, and the ones I can are too simple to even be considered game changers for this device. I also would have to use half the display for the keyboard and insofar have no feedback as to what button I?m pressing, which makes it worse off than even those crappy netbooks.
Surely if this was to be viable for the consumer market there would be some ingenious ideas thrown out by the public at large by now and made into a mockup, yet all I?ve seen is the same crappy tablet that is a a little thinner and sleeker with a Mac OS X thrown on top instead of Windows. That isn?t even a game player, much less a game changer.
As cool as such devices are, they just aren?t practical for consumers in the way they have been presented. It seems obvious that this would be a different OS X branch and that would require a different SDK. Apple has experience with both so announcing the new product for release in a few months with new SDK ready now for developers shouldn?t be a problem for Apple. They have wrapped up there other OS builds pretty well which would give them the time to focus on it, but it still needs something that would make me want to not use my 13? MBP, not use my IPhone, or use it in conjunction with both of those devices.
It?s not so much about vision as it about logistics. We all knew that a phone from Apple would be pretty cool. We had used their iPods and knew it would cannibalize them to a degree.
What if the phone like function was Ichat. Wasn't there a rumor about a forward facing camera? Since we are mindlessly speculating, a large ipod touch with Ichat, too large to really walk around with in front of your face, just large enough to hold and surf with in you lap or while standing still, but small enough to prop on the desk, with a wireless service plan available. Call over and back to the itunes. Bluetooth keyboard use optional. A sort of Kindle with real power.
Just Think'in
A front facing camera is quite likely imo. I believe the iphone and ipod touch will eventually get a front facing camera, so it seems likely that the device bridging the gap between macbooks and iphones would as well.
And neither iPhone OS X nor Mac OS X will work, so there would have to be a new OS X class made,
i don't know about a new class. but perhaps a half way between the phone and desktop. i highly doubt that any netbook/tablet is going to be meant, at least at first, to be a full scale computer. an overgrown ipod touch with some basic 'computer' tasks (word processing and the like) sure. but I highly doubt anyone at Apple would think to create a computer for full on tasks like running pro apps etc. eventually perhaps, but not at the moment.
and using a flavor of the phone os might open up this device to the various games and such that are all the rage on the iphone/ipod. i imagine resizing wouldn't be too hard for many of the apps.
the only thing I see as a must for this and really all laptops is a built in cell data antenna not tied to any one service (in addition to the wifi). let folks pick what they want. although the current contract with ATT might not allow this so any such devices might not be released until that contract is over (and ATT can't say anything).
Rumors are still just rumours.
Indeed, rumors are only rumors. They provide no good argument for or against. But neither does your "no killer app argument". Your logic has holes all over the place.
I agree that the number of rumors being presented do lead to a likelihood of a new device with a ~10” display. The rumors of the iPhone were rampant for months prior to its release and even though there was no absolution before the reveal it was a good bet that it was going to come.
The difference I see here is that the iPhone did have a plethora of mockups before its release, many of which were completely touch-based in design. My problem is still that it solves no problem. I can’t use a 10” touchscreen effectively with most Mac apps, and the ones I can are too simple to even be considered game changers for this device. I also would have to use half the display for the keyboard and insofar have no feedback as to what button I’m pressing, which makes it worse off than even those crappy netbooks.
Surely if this was to be viable for the consumer market there would be some ingenious ideas thrown out by the public at large by now and made into a mockup, yet all I’ve seen is the same crappy tablet that is a a little thinner and sleeker with a Mac OS X thrown on top instead of Windows. That isn’t even a game player, much less a game changer.
As cool as such devices are, they just aren’t practical for consumers in the way they have been presented. It seems obvious that this would be a different OS X branch and that would require a different SDK. Apple has experience with both so announcing the new product for release in a few months with new SDK ready now for developers shouldn’t be a problem for Apple. They have wrapped up there other OS builds pretty well which would give them the time to focus on it, but it still needs something that would make me want to not use my 13” MBP, not use my IPhone, or use it in conjunction with both of those devices.
It’s not so much about vision as it about logistics. We all knew that a phone from Apple would be pretty cool. We had used their iPods and knew it would cannibalize them to a degree.
Maybe we will see better rumors as we approach the annoucement date (if that actually exists). Rumors suggest the earliest the anouncement would be is September, that is still a month away. The juicy rumors often don't come until right before the announcement.
I'll try to post some ideas that I have for what I think the tablet should be a little later when I have the time. I do see some unserved markets that could be exploited by a tablet.
7 inch widescreen touchscreen - 1cm thick - running a special and third iteration of OSX - a hybrid OSX/iPhone OS - I'll lay money on it...
This baby will dock directly into the side of a forthcoming imac and act as a video mac touchpad...
docking for charging and data transfer, perhaps.
as for the 'killer' aspects. solid state memory at a decent price and capacity and a screen that can handle real HD would be gone. better touch screen gestures including perhaps also 'ink' (you could have a small stylus in a slot in one side) wouldn't hurt. forward facing camera and as I said, both wifi and cell connection capabilities. all this together might be enough to push someone to such a device. particularly if they don't have a current laptop and are in the market.
i don't know about a new class. but perhaps a half way between the phone and desktop.
That would be a new class. More rich frameworks and extenstions like inMac OS X, but with a UI and apps that are fully functional using your fingers, like in iPhone OS X. Putting iPhone OS X on a 10? display would like horrible and trying to use Mac OS X on a 10? device with your fingers would be frustrating.
Indeed, rumors are only rumors. They provide no good argument for or against. But neither does your "no killer app argument". Your logic has holes all over the place.
It?s not illogical to conceive of a business model for a product, just not the geeky desires of Star Trek generation. Without a viable business model that makes people need the device, or at least want the device because it will make their life easier, then the market is nothing more than a flash in the pan niche, of which there are plenty of cool but useless products we can use as examples.
Our inability to conceive of the ?killer app? doesn?t mean there isn?t one and it certainly doesn?t mean there doesn?t have to be one because you can?t think of it.
Prior to the iPhones release, all people could think of was a phone with a clickwheel. They couldn't think outside the box, they couldn't think beyond a phone and an iPod. Now most people can't think beyond an iPhone and a conventional tablet.
My point is that us not being able to visualize what this tablet will do is not an effective argument against its existence.
Superb point there. In a lot of the judgments we are forming about this product, we seem to be limited to what we have seen and experienced already.
Sheesh with that many guesses, you might as well add 5, 6, 8, and 11 inches to cover all the bases.
That's what she said.
But seriously anyone who doesn't think this has been in the works for a long long time is probably out of touch with reality, apple would not buy large quantities of screens if they didn't already have something in mind and a form factor in place to fit said screen. "Oh let's buy 100,000 10" screens for the fun of it!"
I'm sure they bought 10 or 12 and worked out a form factor before deciding on which to place actual production orders for, even if the production is in the future, they must have plans for them already. Also the fact, if true, that they have bought enough of anything for a production runs means the form factor is set and it's software / bug issue at this phase.
But then what do I know since I'm not a 16yr fanboy and have had some real world exp in these things
And neither iPhone OS X nor Mac OS X will work, so there would have to be a new OS X class made, which would take time.
Maybe Snow Leopard with a touch based UI just for this?
Twit!
ter!