Looking at the diagram, it seems that all the power circuitry would run through (if not controlled by) the Abuse State System. Does this mean if one of the many sensors were tripped, then the device could stop working altogether, even if a) the sensor was tripped falsely or b) one portion of the device fails to work after an event (like, bluetooth or wifi or a button) but the rest still works fine. Would the chipset keep the device turned off permanently?
What if it counts "power cycles" (Turning on and off the device) and then reports if the amount of "uses" is outside the warranty. I guess the same could be said of battery chargings. Even worse would be if they also locked you out of the device after that number was reached. Though, I would think they could keep track of all that currently too.
Your thoughts on the diagram?
Apple tells us what programs we can and cannot run or create. They tell us what devices we can use with their software. Now they are telling us how to handle our equipment.
If I buy a blender, I want to use it for shredding paper. If I break it, that's my problem. But I don't want the blender sensing "non-food" items and locking me out of its functions! Also, I don't want my blender saying that I voided its warranty if I blended regular food but it got too hot due to faulty wiring inside, and tripped a heat sensor.
Must try the cool approach with my defective shuffle, inexpensive - perhaps, irreplacable - definitely, underused - absolutely. A 50th birthday present, it has died after not being used / charged for a few weeks - I use an iPod touch most of the time but the shuffle is out of warranty :-(
2 different people I know of we're refused service on faulty vehicles because their cars (Audi A4's) had traveled at over 90 mph.
So we buy machines that are designed tattle on us. It's not a big leap to think insurance companies would want this kind of data, or law enforcement. Government could require devices to keep track of everything you do and service providers to report anything they find. Manufacturers would love it: nobody in their right mind would buy used equipment that might have all kinds of proof of guilt secretly recorded in its proprietary black box. And if it makes people so paranoid they just buy new devices rather than get them serviced, so much the better for sales.
This whole patent application is typical "big brother" behavior from Apple. Not really what I consider news.
What got my interest was the diagram of an ipod with a display size to click wheel ratio much higher than any production model. Seems like someone at Apple believes a large display can be wedded to the traditional click wheel UI.
I think it is a good idea so long as the user can also view the data
The right approach for Apple to win over people would be to provide a user accessible screen of the current state perhaps with a graded measurement about how the system thinks you are treating it.
This would encourage good ownership and maybe educate the few that abuse their devices and then submit bogus warranty claims
Why should bad care be rewarded by a no-questions replacement?
This could even be a good selling point if the user wants to sell the device
I went into an Apple store on Saturday to see about a crack in my iPhone near the bottom port. After running a quick test on it, they told me they couldn't do anything because my moisture sensor had been activated. I was told that both the warranty and Applecare were voided by this. Since I haven't submerged my phone, spilled a drink on it, or done any of the other things I was told would activate the sensor I question how well it works, but the Apple genius insisted the system didn't make mistakes.
I also wonder how well the liquid sensors work. I had a problem with the touch screen on my first gen iPhone not responding to touch. I brought it in for repair under my apple care warranty and was told it had water damage so there was nothing they could do. It so happens that at the same time I was there there were 2 other people there trying to have their iPhones repaired and both of them were told the same thing. I know my phone was not submersed in water and the others said the same. They looked at the bottom of the head phone jack for red and said that a bar by the dock connector had oxidation which proved water damage and voided the warranty.
My question is if we all had the same problem but did not submerse the phones in water how sensitive are these sensors. I used my phone on a hot day and when i pulled it from my face it was covered in sweat. Did a drop of sweat drip down the ear phone hole? Did my sweaty hand cause oxidation on the dock bar? If I get caught in a rain storm and the phone is in my pocket will it cause oxidation? When is it not abuse but just day to day use? I think water damage is just a very convenient excuse to deny warranty service.
I remember back when I was considering the iphone, best buy said they'd insure it for like 15 a month or something? But that only covered things that went wrong that would have gone wrong anyway, like mechanically. Not things I did to it, like sit on it and crack the screen, or set it down and have it get stolen. It seemed like a pointless charge to add to an already expensive phone bill.
In related news Apple has adjusted its warranty to only cover usage in environments between the temperatures of 26 to 27 degrees Celsius, humidity between 10 and 11 percent, and experiencing no accelerations greater than 0.1 g's.
They feel very confident that there is not a single place on the planet nor usage of the product that will not void their warranties before the product leaves the box you bought it in. Because we all know how gentle shippers are with products and how well the environmental controls are on UPS trucks.
To make up for this they are extending all warranties to ten years, an industry leading standard.
Goodness, if Apple really does this, I'll be afraid to take the phone out of the box!
It's understandable that they want to save money on replacements, but, Apple is essentially saying if the device comes into contact with moisture, gets too cold, gets too hot, or is jostled around too much, it not only voids the warranty but also your AppleCare? It seems a bit extreme for a device like a phone, which is thrown into bags and pockets, left in hot cars, and dropped. My iPhone would definitely have its warranty voided because I've dropped it a few times. I have a case for it, so, it doesn't have a scratch or anything, but, I'm sure an impact sensor would have recorded several events.
Apple will need to make some designs changes to iPods and iPhones, too. For example, the iPhone has a hole on the top (headphone jack) that makes it SO easy for a tiny drop of moisture to fall in while you're talking on the phone. And of course, that's were one of the moisture sensors is located. They should also make a rubberized casing for the phone instead of a fragile ceramic-plastic composite that is prone to cracking and scratching. And how difficult would it be to seal the internal components in a moisture-proof barrier? It can be done for watches and cameras, why not phones?
Hopefully Apple will implement this in a thoughtful way, and not use it to avoid fixing legitimate problems, like the cracking cases that many 3G phones experienced.
Then why make the speedometer go to 140 or 160 or what ever it is these days?
An obvious question, but I think the more serious point is in the invasion of privacy. Once I purchase a vehicle, the manufacturer has no right know how fast I've driven it, let alone secretly collecting it and using it against you.
Abusing a product and expecting the manufacturer to cover it is wrong as well, but as your mother said, Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right.
Does this also include detecting if you connect devices that haven't licensed Apple's iPod connector, or if you've jailbroken the device ever?
Both of those are significantly simpler software-related invasions of privacy, and could easily be ascertained with current technology.
All of these ludicrous concepts depend on their rollout schedule. Incrementalism is key. Starts with water sensors. Moves to jailbreak detection, then on and on and on until you're basically renting the device from Apple warranties are a thing of the past.
See how ridiculous is sounds all grouped together? Incrementalism works. One thing now, wait for the dust to settle, then another, wait for the dust to settle.....
The poster with the cracked case should have had his claim evaluated without reference to the submersion indicator. That article does not disclaim all warranty claims, just those that are caused by water submersion. The title itself is a giveaway:
I don't know how such measures would be implemented but there has to be an element of transparency about the process. It's not good enough for the manufacturer to declare an item does not qualify for warranty because of the magical numbers that emit from this invention. Putting faith in such a device may make the decision a binary one, but says nothing about whether the detection device itself or its sensors is functioning correctly.
In reality I think mobile devices should be able to withstand the rigours or being, you know, mobile. That's why I'm continually surprised from a practical viewpoint that Apple keep bringing to market devices that can be damaged so easily. I guess the public get what they want - and then whinge about the consequences.
The poster with the cracked case should have had his claim evaluated without reference to the submersion indicator. That article does not disclaim all warranty claims, just those that are caused by water submersion. The title itself is a giveaway:
"Water damage is not covered by warranty"
I would suggest that the combination of the two indicates abuse or at least lack of care. It would appear that the fact that 'water damage' supercedes the 'cracked case'.
Keep in mind that if Apple were to fix or replace the product, if one were to get 'liquid' into their iPhone, how many would attempt to be serviced by purposely cracking the screen.
For those that do 'water-damage' their iPhone by accident or design, I think that Apple has a fairly good policy, i.e., "Apple to replace water-damaged iPhones via out-of-warranty service." http://www.tuaw.com/2009/05/05/apple...maged-iphones/
And its, "Apple Stores will replace broken iPhone displays, as well.
What is your point here? That support page covering Water Damage clearly states the hypocrisy that Apple has sunk into. It says, word for word:
The liquid submersion indicator will be activated when it comes in direct contact with liquid.
When this event does not occur, and the indicator is activated anyway, and Apple refuses service, which is happening over and over and over and over, Apple has clearly:
1. Lied on the support page of their website. (illegal)
2. Falsely denied warranty service to untold numbers of customers. (illegal)
3. Avoided dealing it, and is instead pursuing more options to spread this (illegal) behavior to other aspects of the same device.
The pure insanity here (both within Apple and HERE at AppleInsider) is staggering to say the least.
As I prefaced the support page, it was simply worth reading, particularly to properly inform those that were making incorrect statements about Apple's policies.
Like those that keep claiming that Apple support/service policies are one of the worst in the industry, here is something that is well worth reading as well: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._rankings.html. (FYI only)
Apple states that the abuse detection system could also aid in protection of components should an ?abuse? be detected. This all is another way for Apple to increase revenue and to cut down on replacements. It is also an indirect (or you could argue direct) way to get users to purchase the AppleCare plan that normally they perhaps would not have! This would be VERY profitable for Apple ? and is a very interesting revenue model!
Comments
Looking at the diagram, it seems that all the power circuitry would run through (if not controlled by) the Abuse State System. Does this mean if one of the many sensors were tripped, then the device could stop working altogether, even if a) the sensor was tripped falsely or b) one portion of the device fails to work after an event (like, bluetooth or wifi or a button) but the rest still works fine. Would the chipset keep the device turned off permanently?
What if it counts "power cycles" (Turning on and off the device) and then reports if the amount of "uses" is outside the warranty. I guess the same could be said of battery chargings. Even worse would be if they also locked you out of the device after that number was reached. Though, I would think they could keep track of all that currently too.
Your thoughts on the diagram?
Apple tells us what programs we can and cannot run or create. They tell us what devices we can use with their software. Now they are telling us how to handle our equipment.
If I buy a blender, I want to use it for shredding paper. If I break it, that's my problem. But I don't want the blender sensing "non-food" items and locking me out of its functions! Also, I don't want my blender saying that I voided its warranty if I blended regular food but it got too hot due to faulty wiring inside, and tripped a heat sensor.
am hoping it can be resurrected.
2 different people I know of we're refused service on faulty vehicles because their cars (Audi A4's) had traveled at over 90 mph.
So we buy machines that are designed tattle on us. It's not a big leap to think insurance companies would want this kind of data, or law enforcement. Government could require devices to keep track of everything you do and service providers to report anything they find. Manufacturers would love it: nobody in their right mind would buy used equipment that might have all kinds of proof of guilt secretly recorded in its proprietary black box. And if it makes people so paranoid they just buy new devices rather than get them serviced, so much the better for sales.
What got my interest was the diagram of an ipod with a display size to click wheel ratio much higher than any production model. Seems like someone at Apple believes a large display can be wedded to the traditional click wheel UI.
The right approach for Apple to win over people would be to provide a user accessible screen of the current state perhaps with a graded measurement about how the system thinks you are treating it.
This would encourage good ownership and maybe educate the few that abuse their devices and then submit bogus warranty claims
Why should bad care be rewarded by a no-questions replacement?
This could even be a good selling point if the user wants to sell the device
Stuart
I went into an Apple store on Saturday to see about a crack in my iPhone near the bottom port. After running a quick test on it, they told me they couldn't do anything because my moisture sensor had been activated. I was told that both the warranty and Applecare were voided by this. Since I haven't submerged my phone, spilled a drink on it, or done any of the other things I was told would activate the sensor I question how well it works, but the Apple genius insisted the system didn't make mistakes.
I also wonder how well the liquid sensors work. I had a problem with the touch screen on my first gen iPhone not responding to touch. I brought it in for repair under my apple care warranty and was told it had water damage so there was nothing they could do. It so happens that at the same time I was there there were 2 other people there trying to have their iPhones repaired and both of them were told the same thing. I know my phone was not submersed in water and the others said the same. They looked at the bottom of the head phone jack for red and said that a bar by the dock connector had oxidation which proved water damage and voided the warranty.
My question is if we all had the same problem but did not submerse the phones in water how sensitive are these sensors. I used my phone on a hot day and when i pulled it from my face it was covered in sweat. Did a drop of sweat drip down the ear phone hole? Did my sweaty hand cause oxidation on the dock bar? If I get caught in a rain storm and the phone is in my pocket will it cause oxidation? When is it not abuse but just day to day use? I think water damage is just a very convenient excuse to deny warranty service.
Isn't there some kind of insurance you can buy so you can just get a replacement no matter what for ipods and iphones?
Yeah - homeowners or renters insurance.
Yeah - homeowners or renters insurance.
I remember back when I was considering the iphone, best buy said they'd insure it for like 15 a month or something? But that only covered things that went wrong that would have gone wrong anyway, like mechanically. Not things I did to it, like sit on it and crack the screen, or set it down and have it get stolen. It seemed like a pointless charge to add to an already expensive phone bill.
They feel very confident that there is not a single place on the planet nor usage of the product that will not void their warranties before the product leaves the box you bought it in. Because we all know how gentle shippers are with products and how well the environmental controls are on UPS trucks.
To make up for this they are extending all warranties to ten years, an industry leading standard.
* Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F
(0° to 35° C)
* Nonoperating temperature: -4° to 113° F
(-20° to 45° C)
* Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
* Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)
Can I use the iPhone in summer and void the warranty because I have "abused" it?
It's understandable that they want to save money on replacements, but, Apple is essentially saying if the device comes into contact with moisture, gets too cold, gets too hot, or is jostled around too much, it not only voids the warranty but also your AppleCare? It seems a bit extreme for a device like a phone, which is thrown into bags and pockets, left in hot cars, and dropped. My iPhone would definitely have its warranty voided because I've dropped it a few times. I have a case for it, so, it doesn't have a scratch or anything, but, I'm sure an impact sensor would have recorded several events.
Apple will need to make some designs changes to iPods and iPhones, too. For example, the iPhone has a hole on the top (headphone jack) that makes it SO easy for a tiny drop of moisture to fall in while you're talking on the phone. And of course, that's were one of the moisture sensors is located. They should also make a rubberized casing for the phone instead of a fragile ceramic-plastic composite that is prone to cracking and scratching. And how difficult would it be to seal the internal components in a moisture-proof barrier? It can be done for watches and cameras, why not phones?
Hopefully Apple will implement this in a thoughtful way, and not use it to avoid fixing legitimate problems, like the cracking cases that many 3G phones experienced.
Then why make the speedometer go to 140 or 160 or what ever it is these days?
An obvious question, but I think the more serious point is in the invasion of privacy. Once I purchase a vehicle, the manufacturer has no right know how fast I've driven it, let alone secretly collecting it and using it against you.
Abusing a product and expecting the manufacturer to cover it is wrong as well, but as your mother said, Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right.
Does this also include detecting if you connect devices that haven't licensed Apple's iPod connector, or if you've jailbroken the device ever?
Both of those are significantly simpler software-related invasions of privacy, and could easily be ascertained with current technology.
All of these ludicrous concepts depend on their rollout schedule. Incrementalism is key. Starts with water sensors. Moves to jailbreak detection, then on and on and on until you're basically renting the device from Apple warranties are a thing of the past.
See how ridiculous is sounds all grouped together? Incrementalism works. One thing now, wait for the dust to settle, then another, wait for the dust to settle.....
You don't get to be one of the best re consumer service/support studies by having bad warranty programs.
If you work in a lab, you should be able to reference your claims better than just anecdotal evidence. And limited and really non-supportive at that.
In the meantime, here is something worth reading.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3302 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3302
The poster with the cracked case should have had his claim evaluated without reference to the submersion indicator. That article does not disclaim all warranty claims, just those that are caused by water submersion. The title itself is a giveaway:
"Water damage is not covered by warranty"
Finally! Excellent move. Should have been done a long time ago.
Should cut down on all those "exploding iPod" BS claims.
Agreed.
Agreed.
I don't know how such measures would be implemented but there has to be an element of transparency about the process. It's not good enough for the manufacturer to declare an item does not qualify for warranty because of the magical numbers that emit from this invention. Putting faith in such a device may make the decision a binary one, but says nothing about whether the detection device itself or its sensors is functioning correctly.
In reality I think mobile devices should be able to withstand the rigours or being, you know, mobile. That's why I'm continually surprised from a practical viewpoint that Apple keep bringing to market devices that can be damaged so easily. I guess the public get what they want - and then whinge about the consequences.
The poster with the cracked case should have had his claim evaluated without reference to the submersion indicator. That article does not disclaim all warranty claims, just those that are caused by water submersion. The title itself is a giveaway:
"Water damage is not covered by warranty"
I would suggest that the combination of the two indicates abuse or at least lack of care. It would appear that the fact that 'water damage' supercedes the 'cracked case'.
Keep in mind that if Apple were to fix or replace the product, if one were to get 'liquid' into their iPhone, how many would attempt to be serviced by purposely cracking the screen.
For those that do 'water-damage' their iPhone by accident or design, I think that Apple has a fairly good policy, i.e., "Apple to replace water-damaged iPhones via out-of-warranty service." http://www.tuaw.com/2009/05/05/apple...maged-iphones/
And its, "Apple Stores will replace broken iPhone displays, as well.
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/07/06/apple...hone-displays/
What is your point here? That support page covering Water Damage clearly states the hypocrisy that Apple has sunk into. It says, word for word:
The liquid submersion indicator will be activated when it comes in direct contact with liquid.
When this event does not occur, and the indicator is activated anyway, and Apple refuses service, which is happening over and over and over and over, Apple has clearly:
1. Lied on the support page of their website. (illegal)
2. Falsely denied warranty service to untold numbers of customers. (illegal)
3. Avoided dealing it, and is instead pursuing more options to spread this (illegal) behavior to other aspects of the same device.
The pure insanity here (both within Apple and HERE at AppleInsider) is staggering to say the least.
As I prefaced the support page, it was simply worth reading, particularly to properly inform those that were making incorrect statements about Apple's policies.
Like those that keep claiming that Apple support/service policies are one of the worst in the industry, here is something that is well worth reading as well: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._rankings.html. (FYI only)
http://www.marcporcelli.com/2009/08/...em-and-method/
-Marc