And what exact experiences would those have been? Having spent 10 days in France recently I found them charming, intelligent, and very classy, both in the countryside and in the heart of Paris.
Well, generally, the way people act toward you is a mirror of how you act toward them.
I agree with VinitaBoy we have repaid any debts we had with our involvement in the two world wars. I no this is not politically correct but my experiences with the French have shown them to be arrogant, rude, cheap, boorish and wimps.
You didn't read my earlier post. France had more casualties in World War II than the U.S., and had more military casualties than the U.S. in World War I.
Incidentally, the Canadians made arguably more of a difference in World War I than the Americans, since they won the Battle of Wimy Ridge, which was a turning point of the war. Canada lost almost 1% of its total population in that war despite fighting overseas. The U.S. lost about 0.13% of its population in that war.
I'm not saying the U.S. didn't make a solid contribution to both wars, but that contribution is eclipsed by those of other countries, most notably Russia/Soviet Union, which had more casualties than any other nation in both wars.
And as for the French, your experiences deceive you. I hung out with a couple of Frenchmen when I studied in England, and they were cool, relaxed, humourous and friendly. Same went for when I traveled to Paris and Nice.
Thanks to France, we are, indeed, a free and independent nation. (Not sure for how much longer, however.) That said, I seem to recall TWO WORLD WARS in which we MORE than repaid any debt incurred during our revolutionary struggle. Please, anonymouse, do not even begin to equate the sacrifices France made 230 years ago with those the USA has made in the past 100. Without our intervention in those two EUROPEAN conflicts (most certainly not OURS), there would probably be a France today . . . but its capital would be Berlin.
N'est-ce pas?
Except for one little detail: We would have gladly let Hitler keep France if Japan hadn't stupidly attacked us. Once Pearl Harbor happened, we had to go to war with Germany, because they were united with Japan. We didn't free France (or Poland or Austria or anyone else) out of goodwill. We also turned away tens of thousands of Jewish refugees.
History is always much more complicated than what you normally hear about.
Well, generally, the way people act toward you is a mirror of how you act toward them.
This reminds me of the time I was in Paris with a group, and one of the women said she thought it was rude of the French to not have placards in English in the art galleries to explain what the works of art were about. She was also the type of person who thought the best way to communicate when you don't speak the language was to speak louder and slower.
My friends and I quickly ditched her and her husband because we didn't want to be associated with them.
I work about 70 hours a week. Very little sympathy of those afraid of a good day of hard work.
You call that a good day of hard work? I call that a shitty job — unless you own your own business, I should say.
If you're doing the work of nearly two people for one person's salary all in the hopes of your corporate masters one day throwing you some table scraps, that's just dumb.
Are you honestly saying we should be nice because completely different French people under a completely different French government were incredibly helpful to completely different Americans under a completely different British government?
Yes, we have to be absolutely grateful to France for its help in the Revolutionary War(whatever its motivation or circumstance) and the gift of the Statue of Liberty. I was very offended with the "old Europe" and "Liberty Fries" ignorance. The Statue of Liberty is most tangible symbol of freedom American has ever had, for native born and immigrants.
I don't know how it is in Florida, but in Virginia, if you're salary, overtime pay is optional by the employee, and generally non-existent. If you're salary, you get the job done as long as it takes. This goes both ways though, and sometimes you get paid for an 8 hour day after working 4.
I've heard horror stories of guys getting out of college making 75k a year bragging about it at first, then finding 70-80 hour work weeks to be the norm. In the end they are making the equivalent of 20 bucks an hour.
Why is that a horror story? One is not owed a great salary for graduating from college. Good grief, no. One has to earn it.
Why is that a horror story? One is not owed a great salary for graduating from college. Good grief, no. One has to earn it.
Ain't that the truth. One is not even owed a job for graduating college. A friend of mine knows first-hand. He's got a master's degree and years of teaching experience and was just laid off.
He's applied to several schools and has been told outright by at least two of them that they would rather hire 2 less qualified, less experienced teachers than hire one qualified, experienced teacher like him and have to pay him what he's worth.
I agree with VinitaBoy we have repaid any debts we had with our involvement in the two world wars. I no this is not politically correct but my experiences with the French have shown them to be arrogant, rude, cheap, boorish and wimps.
Nonsense. The French are as creative and productive as anyone. Their government's brand of socialism, protectionism and onerous taxes seem like a disincentive to her citizens.
Ain't that the truth. One is not even owed a job for graduating college. A friend of mine knows first-hand. He's got a master's degree and years of teaching experience and was just laid off.
He's applied to several schools and has been told outright by at least two of them that they would rather hire 2 less qualified, less experienced teachers than hire one qualified, experienced teacher like him and have to pay him what he's worth.
Essentially, we are all at the mercy of supply and demand. If there's no demand, one has to "move to the food", so to speak, and find out what others want versus what "we" want. If we have the good fortune to do what we love and get paid for it, all the better.
Except for one little detail: We would have gladly let Hitler keep France if Japan hadn't stupidly attacked us. Once Pearl Harbor happened, we had to go to war with Germany, because they were united with Japan. We didn't free France (or Poland or Austria or anyone else) out of goodwill. We also turned away tens of thousands of Jewish refugees.
History is always much more complicated than what you normally hear about.
You are right that history is complicated, but it contradicts your first paragraph. We didn't gladly let Hitler keep France, there were pro and anti war sentiments all over. We didn't declare war on Germany until after they declare war on the US.
France didn't help in the Revolutionary War out of goodwill either, but that doesnt mean that our CURRENT DISAGREEMENT in global policies should be reduced the benefits of former and current alliances in the historic records to childish name calling and nationalist bashing.
Thanks to France, we are, indeed, a free and independent nation. (Not sure for how much longer, however.) That said, I seem to recall TWO WORLD WARS in which we MORE than repaid any debt incurred during our revolutionary struggle. Please, anonymouse, do not even begin to equate the sacrifices France made 230 years ago with those the USA has made in the past 100. Without our intervention in those two EUROPEAN conflicts (most certainly not OURS), there would probably be a France today . . . but its capital would be Berlin.
N'est-ce pas?
Freedom has become immutable. The amount of years past, the geography and numbers of battles fought, is irrelevant. The idea of democracy and the ideas associated with democracy are struggling against every kind of dictatorship, i.e. Iran's election.
I work about 70 hours a week. Very little sympathy of those afraid of a good day of hard work.
there is no need to malign France when there are a lot of dictatorships around the world that has no labor laws at all, just because we have disagreement with our democratic allies.
I am reading this with great amusement and I find it (almost) entertaining how people latch onto cliches, but I am also glad to see the larger number of enlightened posters on this forum ... To those questioning "french toughness": Ever heard of the "French Foreign Legion"? And: I have hung out with French soldiers when I was in the (German) Army. They are as tough and disciplined as any soldiers I have known.
As far as working 70-hour work weeks go: I have had a share of those myself (salaried/AEC industry/services), but currently I am working 32 hours (+/-) at 80% salary, and I am not sure I want to go back to a "full-time" job when workload comes back. It may be less money, but quality of life with a three day weekend is significantly improved. And then there is such a thing as efficiency ... I read an interesting presentation regarding Netflix company core values ... http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664
By the way, there are not many nations in the "developed world" who have less PTO than the US. We should learn from what some of the European countries are doing (and that includes the German's who are cliched to be very hard working and anal about it, where 35-hour work weeks are becoming standard, with 30 plus days PTO per year).
What amazes me most is how similar the USA and France actually are in their Patriotism and love/hate for each other, with the one big exception that the French have much better food and drink .... :-)
yep. there's a ring of Psystar to this in that they claim they are owed for overtime but can't say how much or when they worked it.
There are few major companies these days where you can't pull up a digital paystub and your 'punches' from at least in an store computer. I work for Gap and I can do it from home.
so it would seem that they are claiming they were off the clock but held down and made to work longer. which I can't see. the claim they were scheduled more than 40 hours a week, perhaps. but not this idea that they were forced to stay without pay. or the notion that they wouldn't have been in a labor office within the week to complain if that was the case.
I recall a lawsuit against Borders Books here in Cali over some stores supposedly forcing their salaried Assistant Managers to work over 8 hours a day so they could, allegedly, save money on their hourly staff. from what I remember reading, only the highest level managers are now salaried, don't know if there was any back pay awarded but there likely was if it was proven true
also, given that a fair 80% of retail staff are part time, any worker is a fool not to be tracking his/her hours because practically every state has a law that if you are worked at a full time level for an extended time your company must upgrade you to full time with all appropriate pay scales and benefits.
Most of you are unfamiliar with overtime lawsuits and the labor laws. The labor laws in Florida may be similar to California, they may be very different. Apple is based in California. Unless you have been involved in such a case, all your comments are speculation about employers keeping time records, etc.
Do a google search for Rose Bell v. Farmers Insurance Exchange. This was the lawsuit that started it all. I was involved in this lawsuit since I was a claims adjuster at Farmers. Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt claiming they made administrative decisions (similar to a supervisor or manager) so they were exempt from overtime pay. This was obviously not true because as an adjuster, you had to get authority from your supervisor in order to settle claims. You could not make administrative decisions as Farmers alleged. This was proven in court, that the adjusters did not qualify in their work description as exempt employees making administrative decisions. Farmers lost. Farmers tried to appeal for 3 more years, and lost every appeal and finally paid on the judgment plus incurred interest.
Farmers never kept track of the adjusters hours. There were no time cards, punch clocks or computer programs for keeping track of hours. It was, "get the work done, we don't care how you do it." Only the clerical staff, which were classified as hourly employees, maintained time cards. It is not the employees responsibility to keep track of their hours worked, it is the employers job to do so. Since Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt, they chose not to track their hours. Overtime hours were determined by depositions during discovery, and adjusters received claim forms to claim an average amount of overtime worked per week during the claim period (which spanned from 1993 to 2004. The lawsuit started in 1996, labor laws allowed an overtime lawsuit to go back 3 years. The trial was in 2001, and appeals ended in 2004). The court determined that Farmers broke the labor laws by not keeping time records, and illegally classifying the adjusters to avoid overtime pay. Farmers basically told the adjusters the office is open 8 to 4:30, but you need to get the work done anyway you can, and we all had keys to the office, and worked from home. Farmers downsized so much, we were working 12+ hour days to keep up with the work loads. So we were working long hours and not getting paid for it, and the court determined that was illegal.
So it is very easy for a company not to keep track of hours, and pay an employee for a 40 hour work week, but make them work longer hours. It happens more often than you think. The Farmers suit caused similar lawsuits with every insurance carrier, and other industries as well. Insurance companies now track their employees hours and pay them overtime when overtime is authorized.
I'm not disagreeing, just adding another perspective to this discussion.
There are plenty of examples of mediocre employees who attempt to compensate for their less than stellar performance by putting in extra hours. Many times, they don't actually produce more, but many (not all) managers perceive such extra hours favourably. It's right up there with the tactic that other employees use which is not to use up all their vacation time.
Any competent employee in any profession (assuming their employer doesn't overload them with responsibilities) can in most cases get their work done during normal hours. There are exceptions such as situations with tight deadlines on a critical deliverable.
Enforcing a fixed number of hours for employees is good, because it exposes employees who are unable to get their work done within the hours that they're expected to, and raises a red flag instead of making them heroes. They can't use that tactic to gain political advantage anymore. Of course, this should go hand-in-hand with competent management that evaluates employees based on the work they produce, not the amount of extra hours they "work".
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
Most of you are unfamiliar with overtime lawsuits and the labor laws. The labor laws in Florida may be similar to California, they may be very different. Apple is based in California. Unless you have been involved in such a case, all your comments are speculation about employers keeping time records, etc.
Do a google search for Rose Bell v. Farmers Insurance Exchange. This was the lawsuit that started it all. I was involved in this lawsuit since I was a claims adjuster at Farmers. Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt claiming they made administrative decisions (similar to a supervisor or manager) so they were exempt from overtime pay. This was obviously not true because as an adjuster, you had to get authority from your supervisor in order to settle claims. You could not make administrative decisions as Farmers alleged. This was proven in court, that the adjusters did not qualify in their work description as exempt employees making administrative decisions. Farmers lost. Farmers tried to appeal for 3 more years, and lost every appeal and finally paid on the judgment plus incurred interest.
Farmers never kept track of the adjusters hours. There were no time cards, punch clocks or computer programs for keeping track of hours. It was, "get the work done, we don't care how you do it." Only the clerical staff, which were classified as hourly employees, maintained time cards. It is not the employees responsibility to keep track of their hours worked, it is the employers job to do so. Since Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt, they chose not to track their hours. Overtime hours were determined by depositions during discovery, and adjusters received claim forms to claim an average amount of overtime worked per week during the claim period (which spanned from 1993 to 2004. The lawsuit started in 1996, labor laws allowed an overtime lawsuit to go back 3 years. The trial was in 2001, and appeals ended in 2004). The court determined that Farmers broke the labor laws by not keeping time records, and illegally classifying the adjusters to avoid overtime pay. Farmers basically told the adjusters the office is open 8 to 4:30, but you need to get the work done anyway you can, and we all had keys to the office, and worked from home. Farmers downsized so much, we were working 12+ hour days to keep up with the work loads. So we were working long hours and not getting paid for it, and the court determined that was illegal.
So it is very easy for a company not to keep track of hours, and pay an employee for a 40 hour work week, but make them work longer hours. It happens more often than you think. The Farmers suit caused similar lawsuits with every insurance carrier, and other industries as well. Insurance companies now track their employees hours and pay them overtime when overtime is authorized.
Comments
And what exact experiences would those have been? Having spent 10 days in France recently I found them charming, intelligent, and very classy, both in the countryside and in the heart of Paris.
Well, generally, the way people act toward you is a mirror of how you act toward them.
I agree with VinitaBoy we have repaid any debts we had with our involvement in the two world wars. I no this is not politically correct but my experiences with the French have shown them to be arrogant, rude, cheap, boorish and wimps.
You didn't read my earlier post. France had more casualties in World War II than the U.S., and had more military casualties than the U.S. in World War I.
Incidentally, the Canadians made arguably more of a difference in World War I than the Americans, since they won the Battle of Wimy Ridge, which was a turning point of the war. Canada lost almost 1% of its total population in that war despite fighting overseas. The U.S. lost about 0.13% of its population in that war.
I'm not saying the U.S. didn't make a solid contribution to both wars, but that contribution is eclipsed by those of other countries, most notably Russia/Soviet Union, which had more casualties than any other nation in both wars.
And as for the French, your experiences deceive you. I hung out with a couple of Frenchmen when I studied in England, and they were cool, relaxed, humourous and friendly. Same went for when I traveled to Paris and Nice.
Thanks to France, we are, indeed, a free and independent nation. (Not sure for how much longer, however.) That said, I seem to recall TWO WORLD WARS in which we MORE than repaid any debt incurred during our revolutionary struggle. Please, anonymouse, do not even begin to equate the sacrifices France made 230 years ago with those the USA has made in the past 100. Without our intervention in those two EUROPEAN conflicts (most certainly not OURS), there would probably be a France today . . . but its capital would be Berlin.
N'est-ce pas?
Except for one little detail: We would have gladly let Hitler keep France if Japan hadn't stupidly attacked us. Once Pearl Harbor happened, we had to go to war with Germany, because they were united with Japan. We didn't free France (or Poland or Austria or anyone else) out of goodwill. We also turned away tens of thousands of Jewish refugees.
History is always much more complicated than what you normally hear about.
Well, generally, the way people act toward you is a mirror of how you act toward them.
This reminds me of the time I was in Paris with a group, and one of the women said she thought it was rude of the French to not have placards in English in the art galleries to explain what the works of art were about. She was also the type of person who thought the best way to communicate when you don't speak the language was to speak louder and slower.
My friends and I quickly ditched her and her husband because we didn't want to be associated with them.
Are you an exempt or non-exempt employee?
What, exempt from hard work? Why yes. Yes I am.
I often think about tie-ing up my wife and whipping her. Does that count?
Only if you post the video on YouTube.
I work about 70 hours a week. Very little sympathy of those afraid of a good day of hard work.
You call that a good day of hard work? I call that a shitty job — unless you own your own business, I should say.
If you're doing the work of nearly two people for one person's salary all in the hopes of your corporate masters one day throwing you some table scraps, that's just dumb.
Are you honestly saying we should be nice because completely different French people under a completely different French government were incredibly helpful to completely different Americans under a completely different British government?
Yes, we have to be absolutely grateful to France for its help in the Revolutionary War(whatever its motivation or circumstance) and the gift of the Statue of Liberty. I was very offended with the "old Europe" and "Liberty Fries" ignorance. The Statue of Liberty is most tangible symbol of freedom American has ever had, for native born and immigrants.
I don't know how it is in Florida, but in Virginia, if you're salary, overtime pay is optional by the employee, and generally non-existent. If you're salary, you get the job done as long as it takes. This goes both ways though, and sometimes you get paid for an 8 hour day after working 4.
I've heard horror stories of guys getting out of college making 75k a year bragging about it at first, then finding 70-80 hour work weeks to be the norm. In the end they are making the equivalent of 20 bucks an hour.
Why is that a horror story? One is not owed a great salary for graduating from college. Good grief, no. One has to earn it.
Why is that a horror story? One is not owed a great salary for graduating from college. Good grief, no. One has to earn it.
Ain't that the truth. One is not even owed a job for graduating college. A friend of mine knows first-hand. He's got a master's degree and years of teaching experience and was just laid off.
He's applied to several schools and has been told outright by at least two of them that they would rather hire 2 less qualified, less experienced teachers than hire one qualified, experienced teacher like him and have to pay him what he's worth.
I agree with VinitaBoy we have repaid any debts we had with our involvement in the two world wars. I no this is not politically correct but my experiences with the French have shown them to be arrogant, rude, cheap, boorish and wimps.
Nonsense. The French are as creative and productive as anyone. Their government's brand of socialism, protectionism and onerous taxes seem like a disincentive to her citizens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_France
Ain't that the truth. One is not even owed a job for graduating college. A friend of mine knows first-hand. He's got a master's degree and years of teaching experience and was just laid off.
He's applied to several schools and has been told outright by at least two of them that they would rather hire 2 less qualified, less experienced teachers than hire one qualified, experienced teacher like him and have to pay him what he's worth.
Essentially, we are all at the mercy of supply and demand. If there's no demand, one has to "move to the food", so to speak, and find out what others want versus what "we" want. If we have the good fortune to do what we love and get paid for it, all the better.
Except for one little detail: We would have gladly let Hitler keep France if Japan hadn't stupidly attacked us. Once Pearl Harbor happened, we had to go to war with Germany, because they were united with Japan. We didn't free France (or Poland or Austria or anyone else) out of goodwill. We also turned away tens of thousands of Jewish refugees.
History is always much more complicated than what you normally hear about.
You are right that history is complicated, but it contradicts your first paragraph. We didn't gladly let Hitler keep France, there were pro and anti war sentiments all over. We didn't declare war on Germany until after they declare war on the US.
France didn't help in the Revolutionary War out of goodwill either, but that doesnt mean that our CURRENT DISAGREEMENT in global policies should be reduced the benefits of former and current alliances in the historic records to childish name calling and nationalist bashing.
Thanks to France, we are, indeed, a free and independent nation. (Not sure for how much longer, however.) That said, I seem to recall TWO WORLD WARS in which we MORE than repaid any debt incurred during our revolutionary struggle. Please, anonymouse, do not even begin to equate the sacrifices France made 230 years ago with those the USA has made in the past 100. Without our intervention in those two EUROPEAN conflicts (most certainly not OURS), there would probably be a France today . . . but its capital would be Berlin.
N'est-ce pas?
Freedom has become immutable. The amount of years past, the geography and numbers of battles fought, is irrelevant. The idea of democracy and the ideas associated with democracy are struggling against every kind of dictatorship, i.e. Iran's election.
Welcome to the United States of France.
Waaaaaaaa, waaaaaaa...
I work about 70 hours a week. Very little sympathy of those afraid of a good day of hard work.
there is no need to malign France when there are a lot of dictatorships around the world that has no labor laws at all, just because we have disagreement with our democratic allies.
I work 50-70 hours a week easily and get paid for 40.
That's the bad side of a salaried job.
Good side I can take off if needed any time were not in a crunch
As far as working 70-hour work weeks go: I have had a share of those myself (salaried/AEC industry/services), but currently I am working 32 hours (+/-) at 80% salary, and I am not sure I want to go back to a "full-time" job when workload comes back. It may be less money, but quality of life with a three day weekend is significantly improved. And then there is such a thing as efficiency ... I read an interesting presentation regarding Netflix company core values ... http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664
By the way, there are not many nations in the "developed world" who have less PTO than the US. We should learn from what some of the European countries are doing (and that includes the German's who are cliched to be very hard working and anal about it, where 35-hour work weeks are becoming standard, with 30 plus days PTO per year).
What amazes me most is how similar the USA and France actually are in their Patriotism and love/hate for each other, with the one big exception that the French have much better food and drink .... :-)
Something about this is very fishy.
yep. there's a ring of Psystar to this in that they claim they are owed for overtime but can't say how much or when they worked it.
There are few major companies these days where you can't pull up a digital paystub and your 'punches' from at least in an store computer. I work for Gap and I can do it from home.
so it would seem that they are claiming they were off the clock but held down and made to work longer. which I can't see. the claim they were scheduled more than 40 hours a week, perhaps. but not this idea that they were forced to stay without pay. or the notion that they wouldn't have been in a labor office within the week to complain if that was the case.
I recall a lawsuit against Borders Books here in Cali over some stores supposedly forcing their salaried Assistant Managers to work over 8 hours a day so they could, allegedly, save money on their hourly staff. from what I remember reading, only the highest level managers are now salaried, don't know if there was any back pay awarded but there likely was if it was proven true
also, given that a fair 80% of retail staff are part time, any worker is a fool not to be tracking his/her hours because practically every state has a law that if you are worked at a full time level for an extended time your company must upgrade you to full time with all appropriate pay scales and benefits.
Do a google search for Rose Bell v. Farmers Insurance Exchange. This was the lawsuit that started it all. I was involved in this lawsuit since I was a claims adjuster at Farmers. Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt claiming they made administrative decisions (similar to a supervisor or manager) so they were exempt from overtime pay. This was obviously not true because as an adjuster, you had to get authority from your supervisor in order to settle claims. You could not make administrative decisions as Farmers alleged. This was proven in court, that the adjusters did not qualify in their work description as exempt employees making administrative decisions. Farmers lost. Farmers tried to appeal for 3 more years, and lost every appeal and finally paid on the judgment plus incurred interest.
Farmers never kept track of the adjusters hours. There were no time cards, punch clocks or computer programs for keeping track of hours. It was, "get the work done, we don't care how you do it." Only the clerical staff, which were classified as hourly employees, maintained time cards. It is not the employees responsibility to keep track of their hours worked, it is the employers job to do so. Since Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt, they chose not to track their hours. Overtime hours were determined by depositions during discovery, and adjusters received claim forms to claim an average amount of overtime worked per week during the claim period (which spanned from 1993 to 2004. The lawsuit started in 1996, labor laws allowed an overtime lawsuit to go back 3 years. The trial was in 2001, and appeals ended in 2004). The court determined that Farmers broke the labor laws by not keeping time records, and illegally classifying the adjusters to avoid overtime pay. Farmers basically told the adjusters the office is open 8 to 4:30, but you need to get the work done anyway you can, and we all had keys to the office, and worked from home. Farmers downsized so much, we were working 12+ hour days to keep up with the work loads. So we were working long hours and not getting paid for it, and the court determined that was illegal.
So it is very easy for a company not to keep track of hours, and pay an employee for a 40 hour work week, but make them work longer hours. It happens more often than you think. The Farmers suit caused similar lawsuits with every insurance carrier, and other industries as well. Insurance companies now track their employees hours and pay them overtime when overtime is authorized.
There are plenty of examples of mediocre employees who attempt to compensate for their less than stellar performance by putting in extra hours. Many times, they don't actually produce more, but many (not all) managers perceive such extra hours favourably. It's right up there with the tactic that other employees use which is not to use up all their vacation time.
Any competent employee in any profession (assuming their employer doesn't overload them with responsibilities) can in most cases get their work done during normal hours. There are exceptions such as situations with tight deadlines on a critical deliverable.
Enforcing a fixed number of hours for employees is good, because it exposes employees who are unable to get their work done within the hours that they're expected to, and raises a red flag instead of making them heroes. They can't use that tactic to gain political advantage anymore. Of course, this should go hand-in-hand with competent management that evaluates employees based on the work they produce, not the amount of extra hours they "work".
Most of you are unfamiliar with overtime lawsuits and the labor laws. The labor laws in Florida may be similar to California, they may be very different. Apple is based in California. Unless you have been involved in such a case, all your comments are speculation about employers keeping time records, etc.
Do a google search for Rose Bell v. Farmers Insurance Exchange. This was the lawsuit that started it all. I was involved in this lawsuit since I was a claims adjuster at Farmers. Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt claiming they made administrative decisions (similar to a supervisor or manager) so they were exempt from overtime pay. This was obviously not true because as an adjuster, you had to get authority from your supervisor in order to settle claims. You could not make administrative decisions as Farmers alleged. This was proven in court, that the adjusters did not qualify in their work description as exempt employees making administrative decisions. Farmers lost. Farmers tried to appeal for 3 more years, and lost every appeal and finally paid on the judgment plus incurred interest.
Farmers never kept track of the adjusters hours. There were no time cards, punch clocks or computer programs for keeping track of hours. It was, "get the work done, we don't care how you do it." Only the clerical staff, which were classified as hourly employees, maintained time cards. It is not the employees responsibility to keep track of their hours worked, it is the employers job to do so. Since Farmers classified the adjusters as exempt, they chose not to track their hours. Overtime hours were determined by depositions during discovery, and adjusters received claim forms to claim an average amount of overtime worked per week during the claim period (which spanned from 1993 to 2004. The lawsuit started in 1996, labor laws allowed an overtime lawsuit to go back 3 years. The trial was in 2001, and appeals ended in 2004). The court determined that Farmers broke the labor laws by not keeping time records, and illegally classifying the adjusters to avoid overtime pay. Farmers basically told the adjusters the office is open 8 to 4:30, but you need to get the work done anyway you can, and we all had keys to the office, and worked from home. Farmers downsized so much, we were working 12+ hour days to keep up with the work loads. So we were working long hours and not getting paid for it, and the court determined that was illegal.
So it is very easy for a company not to keep track of hours, and pay an employee for a 40 hour work week, but make them work longer hours. It happens more often than you think. The Farmers suit caused similar lawsuits with every insurance carrier, and other industries as well. Insurance companies now track their employees hours and pay them overtime when overtime is authorized.