I was in Apple Store to see a matte unibody MBP 17 side by side with a glossy iMac: matte is perfect with no reflections and colors are not so differents.
I will go to buy a new MBP 15 inch with antiglare option.
And now, Apple, think about iMac line. I will buy one for my parents.
That is only one kind of anti-glare... There is is at least one other kind, one I was talking about alters the index of diffraction of the surface with coatings that are close to the wavelength of optical light. It is a smooth surface that doesn't reflect much light at all, nor does it scatter light. From some angles, you don't even see reflections at all.
"Many coatings consist of transparent thin film structures with alternating layers of contrasting refractive index. Layer thicknesses are chosen to produce destructive interference in the beams reflected from the interfaces, and constructive interference in the corresponding transmitted beams. "
So you get reduced reflectivity and glare, and increased contrast. Include oleophobic surface and perhaps we could all be happy.
The "glass" screen you talk about is an ordinary LED backlit LCD panel, with a glass face put in front of it. The glass itself doesn't really change the image quality. I really doubt they went to a different LCD panel to make this work.
WELL i never said what makes it fantastic. Jeff at my work where i sell gems tines i have had a 2 to 3 apple laptop rotation going on for ten yrs / from clamshell to black MB to alum g4 /i missed one or two gen before i bought my MBP15
BUT right now i have 3 mac playing media right now . and i don't know why but the NEW MBP 15 is 100x better than alum 12"g4 or 13"BLACK MB
I can not believe how good << 3.10 to yuma >> was yesterday. . I regret if my facts are off but the MBP line of laptops have the finest media playback quality for laptops on the face of this earth /Thank you jeff
>>>>>>>
I was this because MACTRIPPER is acting like a troll with silly statements about how the visuals on MBP are just ok /I have a ten yr viewing show to prove me right
mel gross knows where i work he can visit me and see. Why do i care ?? well after months of glare bitching the option is available . the whiners should say thank you and go buy that mac.
except for mac tripper does not own a mac he owns a hackin tosh .
MACTRIPPER has a lot t o offer AI he should just leave the glossy alone .
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper
E gs better.
Apple opened a can of worms with these glossy displays, because before, everyone was happy with matte.
Now people are split between matte and glossy, and that problem didn't exist before.
The glossy displays are really not that much improved over matte, just a slightly better clarity, but with limited usage locations that for a lot isn't worth it.
not much improved ?? If you owned a mac you would not say that
WELL i never said what makes it fantastic. Jeff at my work where i sell gems tines i have had a 2 to 3 apple laptop rotation going on for ten yrs / from clamshell to black MB to alum g4 /i missed one or two gen before i bought my MBP15
BUT right now i have 3 mac playing media right now . and i don't know why but the NEW MBP 15 is 100x better than alum 12"g4 or 13"BLACK MB
I can not believe how good << 3.10 to yuma >> was yesterday. . I regret if my facts are off but the MBP line of laptops have the finest media playback quality for laptops on the face of this earth /Thank you jeff
>>>>>>>
I was this because MACTRIPPER is acting like a troll with silly statements about how the visuals on MBP are just ok /I have a ten yr viewing show to prove me right
mel gross knows where i work he can visit me and see. Why do i care ?? well after months of glare bitching the option is available . the whiners should say thank you and go buy that mac.
except for mac tripper does not own a mac he owns a hackin tosh .
MACTRIPPER has a lot t o offer AI he should just leave the glossy alone .
not much improved ?? If you owned a mac you would not say that
9
He probably owns a PC then. But it's ok. Since we're on AI, I assume we share a common interest and it is all on Apple hopefully.. I dislike trolls..
Now how would you know whether Apple would be selling even more if matte were offered currently? Apparently Apple has done the math and realizes that there is more to be made by those who don't want the high gloss mess, myself included.
+3 (including my employees). Glossy doesn't work in our office environment, plain and simple. I tried it for a week and it was a rough week.
I cheered when I saw this news. Bravo Apple for doing something right.
I held off on the purchase of a new Apple for years because of this problem. And yes folks, I have used both extensively in different lighting situations. Staring at my reflection and oversaturated colors is far too distracting. I've continued to use a 15" PowerBook G4 with A LINE DOWN THE LEFT SIDE simply because of the beautiful matte screen. I've even been looking at Dell laptops with the "anti-glare" option. Bleh.
There's still an economic downturn and I'd honestly like to see the 13" and iMacs with this option (presumably it would be more difficult to find a supplier), but I won't nitpick. I'll be doing my best to come up with the funds for a 15" MacBook with a matte screen.
The return of Firewire AND Matte. Wow. Is this because of Jobs or because he hasn't been around much till recently (is he still working from home some days?)...
It's possible that ol' Steve was sitting outside in the sun trying to do some work on his laptop and it suddenly hit him...
"Wow this glare f***ing sucks! Who the hell made this decision?"
It's possible that ol' Steve was sitting outside in the sun trying to do some work on his laptop and it suddenly hit him...
"Wow this glare f***ing sucks! Who the hell made this decision?"
Actually it was a concentrated effort to reach Steve Jobs personally combined with a huge online petition that brought awareness of the problem to him.
Seeing how the 15" matte reappeared quite suddenly (being the easiest to do on short notice), shows Steve really cares about the user experience.
We Mac users have taken years of 'you get what Apple gives you' for the sake of a slim down and highly profitable product line to get Apple on it's feet again.
But now Apple is huge and very profitable, they can afford to begin looking at expanding their product lines for the different needs of different people.
Glare and reflection is a very BIG issue for a lot of people. If Apple sets the trend of having both matte and glossy screen options, the rest of the industry will follow and millions of people will not suffer years of eyestrain and headaches like millions did during the CRT days of old when we had no choice.
The LCD makers are being cheap asses by going glossy, it eliminates a matte film application step, Apples need their parts and is held hostage by the cheap PC industry parts suppliers.
With enough public outcry and pressure from Apple, the LCD makers will have to change course, because millions just won't buy these glare and reflection prone machines.
It's a deal killer if you can't even see the screen to use the computer.
Actually it was a concentrated effort to reach Steve Jobs personally combined with a huge online petition that brought awareness of the problem to him.
Seeing how the 15" matte reappeared quite suddenly (being the easiest to do on short notice), shows Steve really cares about the user experience.
We Mac users have taken years of 'you get what Apple gives you' for the sake of a slim down and highly profitable product line to get Apple on it's feet again.
But now Apple is huge and very profitable, they can afford to begin looking at expanding their product lines for the different needs of different people.
Glare and reflection is a very BIG issue for a lot of people. If Apple sets the trend of having both matte and glossy screen options, the rest of the industry will follow and millions of people will not suffer years of eyestrain and headaches like millions did during the CRT days of old when we had no choice.
The LCD makers are being cheap asses by going glossy, it eliminates a matte film application step, Apples need their parts and is held hostage by the cheap PC industry parts suppliers.
With enough public outcry and pressure from Apple, the LCD makers will have to change course, because millions just won't buy these glare and reflection prone machines.
It's a deal killer if you can't even see the screen to use the computer.
Well then - why did he get rid of it in the first place? Was it because the added glass gave a higher green rating?
I really thing we need to make a big distinction here as to matte vs glossy vs glassy.
Matte: Low to no reflections/glare but diffuses light making the screen appear dull. Film can cause blurriness to text etc as well but fingerprints/smudges etc don't show up at all or very little. Very easy to calibrate and manage in various lighting conditions.
Glossy: Typical glossy is just a screen that looks like plastic without the matte film on it. In extreme cases there can be reflections/glare but mostly controllable. Dirt, oils and finger smudges show up and need to be cleaned much more frequently than Matte. These were found on the older macbook and MBP. Slightly harder to calibrate due to having to raise brightness to reduce glare/reflections.
Glassy: Take the glossy screen and slap a sheet of glass on top. Bonuses are richer colors and deeper blacks but much more prone to show reflections/glare especially in black areas even in light controlled environments (I should know I had the 07 iMac for a year). Hard to calibrate because with more light = more glare/reflections so you have to crank the brightness to compensate which destroys color calibration and burns your retinas. (Okay I embellish a little but I got serious migraines from having to crank the brightness near 100% all the time)
So there are my definitions and why I always choose in this order Matte -> Glossy ------>Glassy. I don't think the trade offs for a brighter/contrasty image but training my eyes (which I couldn't do) to see past my shirt moving while working are worth the hassle so I sold it. (Actually I purchased a 2nd LCD and used that on my iMac until I got my Mac Pro)
Glare and reflection is a very BIG issue for a lot of people. If Apple sets the trend of having both matte and glossy screen options, the rest of the industry will follow and millions of people will not suffer years of eyestrain and headaches like millions did during the CRT days of old when we had no choice.
I got my company to buy me a 17 inch MBP with matte screen. I loved my glossy iMac but thought since I would be in different environments where I could not control my lighting, I would go with the matte. I started noticing MORE eyestrain about 2 days into using the matte screen. About a week into using it, my co-workers laughed at me because by the end of the day, I was like 12 inches away from my screen.
Bottom line to people out there. Choose VERY wisely and don't assume all this matte talk is the answer. It might be for you.... But then again, it might not. Side by side with my iMac, I prefer the glossy screen.
I got my company to buy me a 17 inch MBP with matte screen. I loved my glossy iMac but thought since I would be in different environments where I could not control my lighting, I would go with the matte. I started noticing MORE eyestrain about 2 days into using the matte screen. About a week into using it, my co-workers laughed at me because by the end of the day, I was like 12 inches away from my screen.
I smell BS. I used matte screens on LCDs day in and day out for years without trouble like that, and frankly, until now, hadn't heard of anyone complaining about it like you did. Before that, I had gloss/antiglare (but not matte) surfaces on CRTs. I do happen to have a pre-glass gloss MBP (also LED backlit too), which I think is better than having the unnecessary, shinier glass face.
Quote:
Bottom line to people out there. Choose VERY wisely and don't assume all this matte talk is the answer. It might be for you.... But then again, it might not. Side by side with my iMac, I prefer the glossy screen.
In a case like yours, then how do you really choose? Especially when the computer has a 10% restocking fee to return it if you don't like it? It's not as if you can borrow a unit for a few days, is it?
I smell BS. I used matte screens on LCDs day in and day out for years without trouble like that, and frankly, until now, hadn't heard of anyone complaining about it like you did. Before that, I had gloss/antiglare (but not matte) surfaces on CRTs. I do happen to have a pre-glass gloss MBP (also LED backlit too), which I think is better than having the unnecessary glass face.
Sorry, friend. But you smell wrong. My experience has been that the glossy iMac screen is way more vivid and beautiful to look at and easier on the eyes than the Macbook Pro screen. I've used LCD screens at work which were more brighter than the MacBook Pro's screen. Perhaps we can go into the automatic brightness adjustment settings with the MBP as part of the problem. Anyway, the only reason I bothered to respond is this constant barrage from matte enthusiasts putting down the glossy screen.
Quote:
In a case like yours, then how do you really choose? Especially when the computer has a 10% restocking fee to return it if you don't like it?
Hence my point. Choose wisely and don't be pulled into this "matte is for professionals and glossy is for consumer suckers" argument I see littering all these threads.
Comments
I was in Apple Store to see a matte unibody MBP 17 side by side with a glossy iMac: matte is perfect with no reflections and colors are not so differents.
I will go to buy a new MBP 15 inch with antiglare option.
And now, Apple, think about iMac line. I will buy one for my parents.
That is only one kind of anti-glare... There is is at least one other kind, one I was talking about alters the index of diffraction of the surface with coatings that are close to the wavelength of optical light. It is a smooth surface that doesn't reflect much light at all, nor does it scatter light. From some angles, you don't even see reflections at all.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-reflective_coating
"Many coatings consist of transparent thin film structures with alternating layers of contrasting refractive index. Layer thicknesses are chosen to produce destructive interference in the beams reflected from the interfaces, and constructive interference in the corresponding transmitted beams. "
So you get reduced reflectivity and glare, and increased contrast. Include oleophobic surface and perhaps we could all be happy.
I absolutely adore (if such could be said of a computer) my glossy 24" iMac at work, and my 17" uMBP. would never go back to matte.
I'm still considering whether I should change my 17uMBP's screen to matte.. decisions decisions..
The "glass" screen you talk about is an ordinary LED backlit LCD panel, with a glass face put in front of it. The glass itself doesn't really change the image quality. I really doubt they went to a different LCD panel to make this work.
WELL i never said what makes it fantastic. Jeff at my work where i sell gems tines i have had a 2 to 3 apple laptop rotation going on for ten yrs / from clamshell to black MB to alum g4 /i missed one or two gen before i bought my MBP15
BUT right now i have 3 mac playing media right now . and i don't know why but the NEW MBP 15 is 100x better than alum 12"g4 or 13"BLACK MB
I can not believe how good << 3.10 to yuma >> was yesterday. . I regret if my facts are off but the MBP line of laptops have the finest media playback quality for laptops on the face of this earth /Thank you jeff
>>>>>>>
I was this because MACTRIPPER is acting like a troll with silly statements about how the visuals on MBP are just ok /I have a ten yr viewing show to prove me right
mel gross knows where i work he can visit me and see. Why do i care ?? well after months of glare bitching the option is available . the whiners should say thank you and go buy that mac.
except for mac tripper does not own a mac he owns a hackin tosh .
MACTRIPPER has a lot t o offer AI he should just leave the glossy alone .
E gs better.
Apple opened a can of worms with these glossy displays, because before, everyone was happy with matte.
Now people are split between matte and glossy, and that problem didn't exist before.
The glossy displays are really not that much improved over matte, just a slightly better clarity, but with limited usage locations that for a lot isn't worth it.
not much improved ?? If you owned a mac you would not say that
9
WELL i never said what makes it fantastic. Jeff at my work where i sell gems tines i have had a 2 to 3 apple laptop rotation going on for ten yrs / from clamshell to black MB to alum g4 /i missed one or two gen before i bought my MBP15
BUT right now i have 3 mac playing media right now . and i don't know why but the NEW MBP 15 is 100x better than alum 12"g4 or 13"BLACK MB
I can not believe how good << 3.10 to yuma >> was yesterday. . I regret if my facts are off but the MBP line of laptops have the finest media playback quality for laptops on the face of this earth /Thank you jeff
>>>>>>>
I was this because MACTRIPPER is acting like a troll with silly statements about how the visuals on MBP are just ok /I have a ten yr viewing show to prove me right
mel gross knows where i work he can visit me and see. Why do i care ?? well after months of glare bitching the option is available . the whiners should say thank you and go buy that mac.
except for mac tripper does not own a mac he owns a hackin tosh .
MACTRIPPER has a lot t o offer AI he should just leave the glossy alone .
not much improved ?? If you owned a mac you would not say that
9
He probably owns a PC then. But it's ok. Since we're on AI, I assume we share a common interest and it is all on Apple hopefully.. I dislike trolls..
Great, Apple! Now give us back the ExpressCard that you stole from us from the 15" MacBook Pro, and we'll be back on good terms with you again!
More details here:
Apple: Bring the ExpressCard slot back to the 15″ MacBook Pro!
Oh brother... This is ridiculous.
Doesn't matter if he is facing the sun or not.
You like watching videos on your pc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iry1a...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzWP4Os2KL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFNQh...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afm0j...eature=related
But I gather you wouldn't get a Mac anyways.
You might have more in the works, a bit harder to make other machines with a matte option, I know.
Thanks, you really care!
Now how would you know whether Apple would be selling even more if matte were offered currently? Apparently Apple has done the math and realizes that there is more to be made by those who don't want the high gloss mess, myself included.
+3 (including my employees). Glossy doesn't work in our office environment, plain and simple. I tried it for a week and it was a rough week.
I held off on the purchase of a new Apple for years because of this problem. And yes folks, I have used both extensively in different lighting situations. Staring at my reflection and oversaturated colors is far too distracting. I've continued to use a 15" PowerBook G4 with A LINE DOWN THE LEFT SIDE simply because of the beautiful matte screen. I've even been looking at Dell laptops with the "anti-glare" option. Bleh.
There's still an economic downturn and I'd honestly like to see the 13" and iMacs with this option (presumably it would be more difficult to find a supplier), but I won't nitpick. I'll be doing my best to come up with the funds for a 15" MacBook with a matte screen.
Once again, bravo.
The return of Firewire AND Matte. Wow. Is this because of Jobs or because he hasn't been around much till recently (is he still working from home some days?)...
It's possible that ol' Steve was sitting outside in the sun trying to do some work on his laptop and it suddenly hit him...
"Wow this glare f***ing sucks! Who the hell made this decision?"
But after a few months you barely notice seeing front and back at the same time.
This is silly, and sad at the same time.
So you're saying that after MONTHS we'll learn to accept staring at a mirror for hours on end?
No thanks.
This is silly, and sad at the same time.
So you're saying that after MONTHS we'll learn to accept staring at a mirror for hours on end?
No thanks.
He's trolling, I added him to my ignore list.
Anyone who baits people who have a legitimate problem and fails to be empathic about it doesn't deserve to be heard from anymore.
One day he will have a problem and I will have the solution, but he won't get it from me.
It doesn't pay to be a troll. Be nice and the world is your oyster.
It's possible that ol' Steve was sitting outside in the sun trying to do some work on his laptop and it suddenly hit him...
"Wow this glare f***ing sucks! Who the hell made this decision?"
Actually it was a concentrated effort to reach Steve Jobs personally combined with a huge online petition that brought awareness of the problem to him.
http://macmatte.wordpress.com/
Seeing how the 15" matte reappeared quite suddenly (being the easiest to do on short notice), shows Steve really cares about the user experience.
We Mac users have taken years of 'you get what Apple gives you' for the sake of a slim down and highly profitable product line to get Apple on it's feet again.
But now Apple is huge and very profitable, they can afford to begin looking at expanding their product lines for the different needs of different people.
Glare and reflection is a very BIG issue for a lot of people. If Apple sets the trend of having both matte and glossy screen options, the rest of the industry will follow and millions of people will not suffer years of eyestrain and headaches like millions did during the CRT days of old when we had no choice.
The LCD makers are being cheap asses by going glossy, it eliminates a matte film application step, Apples need their parts and is held hostage by the cheap PC industry parts suppliers.
With enough public outcry and pressure from Apple, the LCD makers will have to change course, because millions just won't buy these glare and reflection prone machines.
It's a deal killer if you can't even see the screen to use the computer.
Actually it was a concentrated effort to reach Steve Jobs personally combined with a huge online petition that brought awareness of the problem to him.
http://macmatte.wordpress.com/
Seeing how the 15" matte reappeared quite suddenly (being the easiest to do on short notice), shows Steve really cares about the user experience.
We Mac users have taken years of 'you get what Apple gives you' for the sake of a slim down and highly profitable product line to get Apple on it's feet again.
But now Apple is huge and very profitable, they can afford to begin looking at expanding their product lines for the different needs of different people.
Glare and reflection is a very BIG issue for a lot of people. If Apple sets the trend of having both matte and glossy screen options, the rest of the industry will follow and millions of people will not suffer years of eyestrain and headaches like millions did during the CRT days of old when we had no choice.
The LCD makers are being cheap asses by going glossy, it eliminates a matte film application step, Apples need their parts and is held hostage by the cheap PC industry parts suppliers.
With enough public outcry and pressure from Apple, the LCD makers will have to change course, because millions just won't buy these glare and reflection prone machines.
It's a deal killer if you can't even see the screen to use the computer.
Well then - why did he get rid of it in the first place? Was it because the added glass gave a higher green rating?
Matte: Low to no reflections/glare but diffuses light making the screen appear dull. Film can cause blurriness to text etc as well but fingerprints/smudges etc don't show up at all or very little. Very easy to calibrate and manage in various lighting conditions.
Glossy: Typical glossy is just a screen that looks like plastic without the matte film on it. In extreme cases there can be reflections/glare but mostly controllable. Dirt, oils and finger smudges show up and need to be cleaned much more frequently than Matte. These were found on the older macbook and MBP. Slightly harder to calibrate due to having to raise brightness to reduce glare/reflections.
Glassy: Take the glossy screen and slap a sheet of glass on top. Bonuses are richer colors and deeper blacks but much more prone to show reflections/glare especially in black areas even in light controlled environments (I should know I had the 07 iMac for a year). Hard to calibrate because with more light = more glare/reflections so you have to crank the brightness to compensate which destroys color calibration and burns your retinas. (Okay I embellish a little but I got serious migraines from having to crank the brightness near 100% all the time)
So there are my definitions and why I always choose in this order Matte -> Glossy ------>Glassy. I don't think the trade offs for a brighter/contrasty image but training my eyes (which I couldn't do) to see past my shirt moving while working are worth the hassle so I sold it. (Actually I purchased a 2nd LCD and used that on my iMac until I got my Mac Pro)
Glare and reflection is a very BIG issue for a lot of people. If Apple sets the trend of having both matte and glossy screen options, the rest of the industry will follow and millions of people will not suffer years of eyestrain and headaches like millions did during the CRT days of old when we had no choice.
I got my company to buy me a 17 inch MBP with matte screen. I loved my glossy iMac but thought since I would be in different environments where I could not control my lighting, I would go with the matte. I started noticing MORE eyestrain about 2 days into using the matte screen. About a week into using it, my co-workers laughed at me because by the end of the day, I was like 12 inches away from my screen.
Bottom line to people out there. Choose VERY wisely and don't assume all this matte talk is the answer. It might be for you.... But then again, it might not. Side by side with my iMac, I prefer the glossy screen.
I got my company to buy me a 17 inch MBP with matte screen. I loved my glossy iMac but thought since I would be in different environments where I could not control my lighting, I would go with the matte. I started noticing MORE eyestrain about 2 days into using the matte screen. About a week into using it, my co-workers laughed at me because by the end of the day, I was like 12 inches away from my screen.
I smell BS. I used matte screens on LCDs day in and day out for years without trouble like that, and frankly, until now, hadn't heard of anyone complaining about it like you did. Before that, I had gloss/antiglare (but not matte) surfaces on CRTs. I do happen to have a pre-glass gloss MBP (also LED backlit too), which I think is better than having the unnecessary, shinier glass face.
Bottom line to people out there. Choose VERY wisely and don't assume all this matte talk is the answer. It might be for you.... But then again, it might not. Side by side with my iMac, I prefer the glossy screen.
In a case like yours, then how do you really choose? Especially when the computer has a 10% restocking fee to return it if you don't like it? It's not as if you can borrow a unit for a few days, is it?
I smell BS. I used matte screens on LCDs day in and day out for years without trouble like that, and frankly, until now, hadn't heard of anyone complaining about it like you did. Before that, I had gloss/antiglare (but not matte) surfaces on CRTs. I do happen to have a pre-glass gloss MBP (also LED backlit too), which I think is better than having the unnecessary glass face.
Sorry, friend. But you smell wrong. My experience has been that the glossy iMac screen is way more vivid and beautiful to look at and easier on the eyes than the Macbook Pro screen. I've used LCD screens at work which were more brighter than the MacBook Pro's screen. Perhaps we can go into the automatic brightness adjustment settings with the MBP as part of the problem. Anyway, the only reason I bothered to respond is this constant barrage from matte enthusiasts putting down the glossy screen.
In a case like yours, then how do you really choose? Especially when the computer has a 10% restocking fee to return it if you don't like it?
Hence my point. Choose wisely and don't be pulled into this "matte is for professionals and glossy is for consumer suckers" argument I see littering all these threads.