This is a pretty damaging decision for Microsoft, even though the amount of money being discussed is not that large. Word is so prevalent in businesses, it's mind-boggling that this could happen. What ya gonna do, Ballmer?
No one should feel good about this turn of events. How long will it be before the same idiot judge pulls iPhones from store shelves. Lord knows there are people trying to do just that everyday. It is never good news when companies win in court what they could not win in the marketplace. Just remember, Apple is an even bigger target than MS right now.
I am overjoyed. Microsoft should get fined through the nose until they go bankrupt. Of course that will never happen with lawsuits alone but it is a step in the right direction.
If by some miracle they stop selling Word a LOT of people will switch to other programs and then kick themselves silly because they didn't make the switch earlier.
I am overjoyed. Microsoft should get fined through the nose until they go bankrupt. Of course that will never happen with lawsuits alone but it is a step in the right direction.
If by some miracle they stop selling Word a LOT of people will switch to other programs and then kick themselves silly because they didn't make the switch earlier.
Nah, we don't want Microsoft to go bankrupt. They give Apple a lot of free advertizing publicity.
Their laptop hunter ads basically told everyone what they already knew: that Apple and Macs were cool and Microsoft and their OEM compadres were cheap. Brilliant.
Nah, we don't want Microsoft to go bankrupt. They give Apple a lot of free advertizing publicity.
Their laptop hunter ads basically told everyone what they already knew: that Apple and Macs were cool and Microsoft and their OEM compadres were cheap. Brilliant.
Anyone who would portray groklaw as a "biased freetard" has no credibility at all and isn't worth listening to.
Please. Anything MS is evil over there. They didn't like Sun because CDDL wasn't GPL. Novell was tainted by doing any licensing with MS and of course Mono and Moonlight are not to be trusted because they are tainted MS technologies. They even dislike BSD because, well, MS could steal anything under a permissive license.
Anyone that disagrees with anything the FSF says or thinks is automatically labeled a paid MS astroturfer.
Tell me there's any level of evenhandedness over there.
Quote:
Sane people can disagree, but this kind of moniker is on the same level as calling Obama a "socialist." It paints you as an exaggerator at best, and more likely someone with a very big bias of their own.
Or someone who reads FSJ or LHB...with a dislike of freetard zealotry.
This won't 'kill' anything. This is about money, not killing a given format/approach. MS makes tons of money from using this patent. If it continues to go against them they will be forced to license the patent for $$$.
The body controlling ODF would also then have to consider a license. The $$ for that license need not be (nor would likely be) the same cost as MS as the controlling body doesn't make (much) money from the invention. This would be up to i4i. They could decide to release it under GPLx or other license as well. Lots of choices which don't kill anything.
Yah, because nobody pays off a patent troll so they can beat competitors over the head with a stick. Wanna bet that these guys go after Sun/Oracle and OO?
It doesn't seem likely that these folks are going to give away what it got paid $200M+ by MS for and the whole point is that someone like OASIS can't pony up that kind of money and unlikely that Oracle cares THAT much about OO.
No one should feel good about this turn of events. How long will it be before the same idiot judge pulls iPhones from store shelves. Lord knows there are people trying to do just that everyday. It is never good news when companies win in court what they could not win in the marketplace. Just remember, Apple is an even bigger target than MS right now.
Well, maybe an idiot judge from another jurisdiction, but you really need to take a closer look at why the patent suits are filed in the East Texas District... mainly the faster time to trial, streamlined court rules, conservative jury base, and experienced judges. Most of the judges are willing and able to put in the research needed and call in the experts when required to understand the cases.
Quote:
Editor: Does the Eastern District have access to the expertise required to cope with the complex technical issues involved in much of today's patent litigation?
Perez: Yes. The judges are sensitive to the need to understand the complex technologies involved in an increasing number of cases. They know their stuff. For example, Judge Davis has a master's degree in computer science. In addition, if the court gets into an advanced area of technology, it will use technical advisors, i.e., individuals who are skilled in the relevant area from a technology standpoint. For example, if the case involves routers for telecommunications, the court will retain an electrical engineer who is experienced in that area. She will come in and get involved in the Markman hearing process. There will be a dialogue with the advisor and judge so that the judge can understand the technology.
In addition, Eastern District judges will ask for a technical tutorial. It is the obligation of counsel to be able to explain the technology so that it can be understood by the court.
Quoted from this slightly dated but very informative interview with lawyers practicing in this circuit.
I know its easy to hate on Microsoft and boast about how they deserved this, but the fact of the matter is this is another stupid lawsuit. I hate to actually side with Micro$oft on this one, but I do. How in the hell can you patent something like XML?!
Obviously the Mac version is included in the ruling due to having the functionality at issue. I wouldn't worry about it going off the market anytime soon. The ruling does not apply to resellers and resellers are very well stocked.
There are still people in this world willing to PAY for Microsoft products?
I know its easy to hate on Microsoft and boast about how they deserved this, but the fact of the matter is this is another stupid lawsuit. I hate to actually side with Micro$oft on this one, but I do. How in the hell can you patent something like XML?!
I don't know the details or the nuances in those details with regard to this i4i patent. I have a strong suspicion that the court that heard the case does.
Maybe we should give the people who tried and heard this case some credit. It's likely they understood very clearly the implication of the verdict and had a good (at least to them) reason for that verdict.
Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps many patent cases are filed in this particular district because they have a strong track record of doing a good job with those cases? Parties to lawsuits don't want to have verdicts overturned.
Microsoft Stores might just have one thing less to present to customers... I think they should revise their shelving for the Microsoft branded stores they are planning...
Doesn't PAGES from Apple also use a similar system to create files (where the content is separated from the formatting)? Could this be an issue as well?
I know sales aren't all that incredible...
This whole patent thing is going way beyond reasonable in my opinon. The patent system should be reviewed. According patents to companies which actually don't produce a product based on the patent should make the patent decay after, let's say, 5 or 10 years. Just an idea... But this would avoid many crazy disputes which, in the end, are a cost for the comminity.
Doesn't PAGES from Apple also use a similar system to create files (where the content is separated from the formatting)? Could this be an issue as well?
I know sales aren't all that incredible...
Absolutely. Pages could potentially be infringing on the same patent -- unless Apple has already licensed the technology but just hasn't seen the need to publicize the fact. The open source alternative OpenOffice.org could also very easily be infringing. They both use XML in their file formats in similar (but not identical) ways to Microsoft's DOCX.
In that case... Long live WordPerfect! Its underlying file format has been maintained to this day to be fundamentally compatible with what it was in version 6.0, released in 1993, therefore prior art that cannot possibly be affected by a patent that was filed after that date.
There are still people in this world willing to PAY for Microsoft products?
I've been a Mac user for over 15 years but perhaps excluding the OS 7.5 - 8 days have always had some M$ product.
MS mice are so much better than Apple's efforts and actually even though iWork is Office compatible for someone like my wife who couldn't care less about the differences it's far far easier for her interoperability to just be able to use Office itself. I have to say that as someone who uses Windows/Office all day at work it's easier for me too and as Office 08 was £8.95 for me under MS's Home User Programme it's far cheaper than iWork too.
Back to the point...
I trust this case gets thrown out. I can't image i4i would have ever even have made 1% of the money M$ will make taking Office forward on this based-on open source file format.
I can't believe the sale of Word has been stopped- surely all parties lose out from this?!
Comments
We should just give Texas back to Mexico. Too much baggage from that state.
On behalf of the Great State of Texas, We Drink Your Milkshake!
What ya gonna do, Ballmer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHN...eature=related
I am overjoyed. Microsoft should get fined through the nose until they go bankrupt. Of course that will never happen with lawsuits alone but it is a step in the right direction.
If by some miracle they stop selling Word a LOT of people will switch to other programs and then kick themselves silly because they didn't make the switch earlier.
YES!!!!
I am overjoyed. Microsoft should get fined through the nose until they go bankrupt. Of course that will never happen with lawsuits alone but it is a step in the right direction.
If by some miracle they stop selling Word a LOT of people will switch to other programs and then kick themselves silly because they didn't make the switch earlier.
Nah, we don't want Microsoft to go bankrupt. They give Apple a lot of free advertizing publicity.
Their laptop hunter ads basically told everyone what they already knew: that Apple and Macs were cool and Microsoft and their OEM compadres were cheap. Brilliant.
Nah, we don't want Microsoft to go bankrupt. They give Apple a lot of free advertizing publicity.
Their laptop hunter ads basically told everyone what they already knew: that Apple and Macs were cool and Microsoft and their OEM compadres were cheap. Brilliant.
+1
It's good to have MS around.
Anyone who would portray groklaw as a "biased freetard" has no credibility at all and isn't worth listening to.
Please. Anything MS is evil over there. They didn't like Sun because CDDL wasn't GPL. Novell was tainted by doing any licensing with MS and of course Mono and Moonlight are not to be trusted because they are tainted MS technologies. They even dislike BSD because, well, MS could steal anything under a permissive license.
Anyone that disagrees with anything the FSF says or thinks is automatically labeled a paid MS astroturfer.
Tell me there's any level of evenhandedness over there.
Sane people can disagree, but this kind of moniker is on the same level as calling Obama a "socialist." It paints you as an exaggerator at best, and more likely someone with a very big bias of their own.
Or someone who reads FSJ or LHB...with a dislike of freetard zealotry.
We should just give Texas back to Mexico. Too much baggage from that state.
Hey,
In other news,
This won't 'kill' anything. This is about money, not killing a given format/approach. MS makes tons of money from using this patent. If it continues to go against them they will be forced to license the patent for $$$.
The body controlling ODF would also then have to consider a license. The $$ for that license need not be (nor would likely be) the same cost as MS as the controlling body doesn't make (much) money from the invention. This would be up to i4i. They could decide to release it under GPLx or other license as well. Lots of choices which don't kill anything.
Yah, because nobody pays off a patent troll so they can beat competitors over the head with a stick. Wanna bet that these guys go after Sun/Oracle and OO?
It doesn't seem likely that these folks are going to give away what it got paid $200M+ by MS for and the whole point is that someone like OASIS can't pony up that kind of money and unlikely that Oracle cares THAT much about OO.
No one should feel good about this turn of events. How long will it be before the same idiot judge pulls iPhones from store shelves. Lord knows there are people trying to do just that everyday. It is never good news when companies win in court what they could not win in the marketplace. Just remember, Apple is an even bigger target than MS right now.
Well, maybe an idiot judge from another jurisdiction, but you really need to take a closer look at why the patent suits are filed in the East Texas District... mainly the faster time to trial, streamlined court rules, conservative jury base, and experienced judges. Most of the judges are willing and able to put in the research needed and call in the experts when required to understand the cases.
Editor: Does the Eastern District have access to the expertise required to cope with the complex technical issues involved in much of today's patent litigation?
Perez: Yes. The judges are sensitive to the need to understand the complex technologies involved in an increasing number of cases. They know their stuff. For example, Judge Davis has a master's degree in computer science. In addition, if the court gets into an advanced area of technology, it will use technical advisors, i.e., individuals who are skilled in the relevant area from a technology standpoint. For example, if the case involves routers for telecommunications, the court will retain an electrical engineer who is experienced in that area. She will come in and get involved in the Markman hearing process. There will be a dialogue with the advisor and judge so that the judge can understand the technology.
In addition, Eastern District judges will ask for a technical tutorial. It is the obligation of counsel to be able to explain the technology so that it can be understood by the court.
Quoted from this slightly dated but very informative interview with lawyers practicing in this circuit.
And here is another interesting look at the Eastern Texas District.
Yea, I'm from Texas
A lot could be affected by this.....after all, a LOT of people use Microsoft Office.
Time for Apple to move in and fill the gap with iWork PRO!
Judge orders Microsoft to stop selling Word
Now if we can get a judge to order Microsoft to stop selling Windows...
Obviously the Mac version is included in the ruling due to having the functionality at issue. I wouldn't worry about it going off the market anytime soon. The ruling does not apply to resellers and resellers are very well stocked.
There are still people in this world willing to PAY for Microsoft products?
I know its easy to hate on Microsoft and boast about how they deserved this, but the fact of the matter is this is another stupid lawsuit. I hate to actually side with Micro$oft on this one, but I do. How in the hell can you patent something like XML?!
I don't know the details or the nuances in those details with regard to this i4i patent. I have a strong suspicion that the court that heard the case does.
Maybe we should give the people who tried and heard this case some credit. It's likely they understood very clearly the implication of the verdict and had a good (at least to them) reason for that verdict.
Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps many patent cases are filed in this particular district because they have a strong track record of doing a good job with those cases? Parties to lawsuits don't want to have verdicts overturned.
Doesn't PAGES from Apple also use a similar system to create files (where the content is separated from the formatting)? Could this be an issue as well?
I know sales aren't all that incredible...
This whole patent thing is going way beyond reasonable in my opinon. The patent system should be reviewed. According patents to companies which actually don't produce a product based on the patent should make the patent decay after, let's say, 5 or 10 years. Just an idea... But this would avoid many crazy disputes which, in the end, are a cost for the comminity.
Just my two cents
It's kind of funny when you hear the name i4i. It reminds me of an 'eye for and eye'
that is its exact meaning
good catch
Doesn't PAGES from Apple also use a similar system to create files (where the content is separated from the formatting)? Could this be an issue as well?
I know sales aren't all that incredible...
Absolutely. Pages could potentially be infringing on the same patent -- unless Apple has already licensed the technology but just hasn't seen the need to publicize the fact. The open source alternative OpenOffice.org could also very easily be infringing. They both use XML in their file formats in similar (but not identical) ways to Microsoft's DOCX.
In that case... Long live WordPerfect! Its underlying file format has been maintained to this day to be fundamentally compatible with what it was in version 6.0, released in 1993, therefore prior art that cannot possibly be affected by a patent that was filed after that date.
There are still people in this world willing to PAY for Microsoft products?
I've been a Mac user for over 15 years but perhaps excluding the OS 7.5 - 8 days have always had some M$ product.
MS mice are so much better than Apple's efforts and actually even though iWork is Office compatible for someone like my wife who couldn't care less about the differences it's far far easier for her interoperability to just be able to use Office itself. I have to say that as someone who uses Windows/Office all day at work it's easier for me too and as Office 08 was £8.95 for me under MS's Home User Programme it's far cheaper than iWork too.
Back to the point...
I trust this case gets thrown out. I can't image i4i would have ever even have made 1% of the money M$ will make taking Office forward on this based-on open source file format.
I can't believe the sale of Word has been stopped- surely all parties lose out from this?!