As the owner of a design studio I want to upgrade my systems but still a little wary about compatibility with Adobe CS3. I think CS4 was not worth the upgrade at the time and have been happy with 3. Hopefully Adobe will catch up soon (wishful thinking)
Anyone had time to test and had luck with CS3 compatibility ? Particularly Illustrator + Hot door's Cad Tools plug in ?
Really wanting to upgrade to Snow Leopard but don't want our productivity to come to a screeching halt. Thanks for any feedback.
Individuals pirating this software are not forcing the prices up; they would never have the means to purchase it anyway.
Ah yes, the lame a$$ argument by pirates.
Except that argument doesn't take into account the money software companies like Adobe have to pay for lawyers and the BSA to fight people who steal their property (and thus their IP including copyright, trademark, patents, etc...), thus raising their costs which - you guessed it - goes back into the prices of the product. Nor does take into account the additional costs of support from the number of users who use their product, legally or not, such as bandwidth for software updates, extra support to the designers and printers who service people who may be pirating software, etc...
Please note, that only Apple OS X Leopard users are eligible for the Snow Leopard upgrade. Tiger & earlier OS users will need to purchase either versions of the upgraded Mac Box Set."
Walt Mossberg, in his Wall Street Journal review of SL, reported Apple conceded to him that the SL upgrade works with Tiger, too, without purchasing the interim version. I'm pretty sure AI carried that report.
Do you seriously believe that? The prices are what they are not because of piracy, but because design and print shops need the software and are willing and able to pay that price. Individuals pirating this software are not forcing the prices up; they would never have the means to purchase it anyway.
Since when has that ever been legal or moral jusification for theft? Using your logic car hijacking should be legal because he the poor creep can't afford to buy his own. Maybe squaring in your home or apartment should be legal too, after all the scum bag can't afford it because he is to lazy to get a job. After all you just stated that theft based on lack of means is not an issue.
Frankly I'm not sure why Appleinsider doesn't have a policy of banning people that advocate such stupidity. From my point of view it is a grossness society doesn't need.
Except that argument doesn't take into account the money software companies like Adobe have to pay for lawyers and the BSA to fight people who steal their property (and thus their IP including copyright, trademark, patents, etc...), thus raising their costs which - you guessed it - goes back into the prices of the product. ...
While you might have a point about piracy adding to software costs in the general sense, in the context of the original argument about Adobe software in particular, you are dead wrong here.
The high price of Adobe software is directly related to the monopoly they have and the fact that they can get almost whatever they ask from the high end shops that use it. The aggregation of all decent design software in the hands of a single company (Adobe), is the direct cause of the high prices, just as the same thing occurs with Windows. They are the classic "cash cows."
The end consumer is not served by monopolies in any way, they always lead to high prices, poor quality, and poor service. This is exactly what you see from Adobe today.
While you might have a point about piracy adding to software costs in the general sense, in the context of the original argument about Adobe software in particular, you are dead wrong here.
The high price of Adobe software is directly related to the monopoly they have and the fact that they can get almost whatever they ask from the high end shops that use it. The aggregation of all decent design software in the hands of a single company (Adobe), is the direct cause of the high prices, just as the same thing occurs with Windows. They are the classic "cash cows."
The end consumer is not served by monopolies in any way, they always lead to high prices, poor quality, and poor service. This is exactly what you see from Adobe today.
Again, could not have said it better myself. Adobe has known for probably years what Apples software path is and yet there are compatibility issues. I'm hearing (very little) but that CS5 which hopefully takes advantage of SL technologies won't be out until 2011. WTF ! I'm running a maxed out Mac Pro and Illustrator is sluggish. What do I get with an upgrade; a new brush tool or a change in UI which takes weeks to understand. I just don't think Adobe understands it's user's. I want a fast, reliable program that doesn't crash twice a day, not a bunch of added stuff I'll never use.
Come to think of it...Adobe needs to do what Apple just did. Instead of adding a bunch of new pointless crap they should take CS4 and optimize the hell out of it, multi thread, 64 bit, no bugs or crashes.
... So when we have to pay more for our tools because of pirating, ...
This is not true at all. This is what Adobe tells you is the cause of the high price so you direct your anger at the pirates and not at them.
Piracy is a problem in general that *sometimes* raises costs for manufacturers, but it's a minor effect and definitely not the cause of Adobe's high prices. Adobe's prices are high because they ask for what they know they can get (from you).
For example, Apple's "piracy problem" with all their software is orders of magnitude higher than Adobe's and yet their software is orders of magnitude *lower* in price. Apple doesn't make software as a "loss leader" and they do make a profit on it.
Adobe is engaging in a classic monopoly position here and all of their behaviours are "textbook" monopolistic behaviours.
Their product is buggy and poorly designed, their "customer" is not the end user but the high end graphics business, both the organisation itself and the software it produces is bloated and over-wrought, and the prices it charges are based on what the market can bear, not on any kind of value/cost proposition.
The following applications are moved to the "Incompatible Software" folder by default upon installation:
Silicon Image SiI3132 Drivers ver. 1.5.16.0
Well that makes Snow Leopard a no-go for me given that I keep all of my work on an eSATA drive. Both the eSATA Expresscard I use in my MacBook Pro and the eSATA PCIe card I use in my Mac Pro are based around the Sil3132 chipset. Hopefully this is resolved soon...
All these utilities, most users don't need or want. As long major applications are functioning, who cares about EyeTV? I don't. Why do I need Norton Virus on my Mac? Norton? I have not touched Norton since System 7.
And whatever the initial problem, it will all be worked out in few weeks by the companies that created them. And that makes me wonder why these companies didn't update their softwares all this time that the OS was in development. The answer is simple; they just want you to buy the latest copy.
Okay... I am not advocating piracy I realize from my many years on personal computers... I started off on a PET CBM (not exactly a PC) but it drove me to my first Vic-20 and then things just snowballed.
Anyway... Piracy is a odd bird...
Some people get the 'bug' to be a collector of software. I knew many of them when I was growing up. They had every software program you could ever imagine, most you'd never heard of! The kids didn't use the stuff... but they HAD the floppies!
Obsessive compulsive works quite well.
Now... a 12 year old downloading "Stedman's Medical Dictionary 27th Edition, with Veterinary Medicine Insert" does WHAT to the bottom line of the publisher? Nothing, when you look at it superficially! So in the pirates eyes:
"I would have never bought it in the first place and had little to no use for it, It didn't hurt anyone and I certainly didn't cost the company any money"
HOWEVER
The fact that the title was in some way openly available for download does hurt the company because if a snot nosed 12 year old can get it, then it's also an avenue that a less then reputable doctor might use to pump up the bottom line of is fledgeling practice.
And THAT does hurt the bottom line...
So yea me downloading a $20k engineering CAD software system wouldn't translate into a $20k loss for the published since I wouldn't even begin to know what to actually do with it. However, the fact that I could get it means so can people who normally would be potential customers.
Two sides of the same coin and unfortunately for the 'recreational pirate' (he who has the most complete collection of useless crapware wins) side of the coin can't be separated from cheapskate who wants a free ride.
The aggregation of all decent design software in the hands of a single company (Adobe), is the direct cause of the high prices, just as the same thing occurs with Windows. They are the classic "cash cows."
This part is unfortunate for consumers, but if you follow the history of DTP all the way back from invention of Adobe Postscript, Illustrator and later Photoshop there were never any serious competitors in those areas. The applications that became the pinnacle of the DTP business were the page layout programs namely Quark and Pagemaker. Adobe didn't have any layout programs so their purchase of Aldus Pagemaker was not considered anti-competitive because Aldus Freehand, a competitor to Illustrator, was not part of the deal.
Fast forward to the acquisition of Macromedia, although Adobe previously attempted to compete with MM in a number of areas they were entirely unsuccessful so they decided to purchased the whole company. How could the Feds prevent it? There was no anti-competitive issues because Adobe's lame efforts to develop products that tried to competed with Flash & Dreamweaver were complete failures and again Freehand was not part of the deal.
So yes it is unfortunate that it turned out that Adobe owns all of the decent design software but the 'cash cow' so to speak is the Postscript language, which they invented, and is the foundation of Acrobat which is probably the most widely used software on the planet. So basically to summarize, I'm arguing that Adobe earned their current status be it good or bad.
The reason there are no competitors is that there is nothing that even comes close in features and quality to Adobe products. Plenty of companies have tried over the years but so far no one has been successful in changing the hearts and minds of the professional designers.
Please note, that only Apple OS X Leopard users are eligible for the Snow Leopard upgrade. Tiger & earlier OS users will need to purchase either versions of the upgraded Mac Box Set."
real world is usually different
MS did the exact same thing in the 1990's with windows. you could boot of a win98 upgrade CD and a blank hard drive and it would prompt you for the earlier version CD or floppies. i think they stopped it with Vista or XP, but not sure
in some of their products in the 1990's all you had to do was put all 1's for the key. it was all planned for people to pirate some copies to get devs to develop more apps for the increased user base
This is not true at all. This is what Adobe tells you is the cause of the high price so you direct your anger at the pirates and not at them.
Piracy is a problem in general that *sometimes* raises costs for manufacturers, but it's a minor effect and definitely not the cause of Adobe's high prices. Adobe's prices are high because they ask for what they know they can get (from you).
For example, Apple's "piracy problem" with all their software is orders of magnitude higher than Adobe's and yet their software is orders of magnitude *lower* in price. Apple doesn't make software as a "loss leader" and they do make a profit on it.
Adobe is engaging in a classic monopoly position here and all of their behaviours are "textbook" monopolistic behaviours.
Their product is buggy and poorly designed, their "customer" is not the end user but the high end graphics business, both the organisation itself and the software it produces is bloated and over-wrought, and the prices it charges are based on what the market can bear, not on any kind of value/cost proposition.
Well said and to the point about Adobe. And Apple.
This is not true at all. This is what Adobe tells you is the cause of the high price so you direct your anger at the pirates and not at them.
Piracy is a problem in general that *sometimes* raises costs for manufacturers, but it's a minor effect and definitely not the cause of Adobe's high prices. Adobe's prices are high because they ask for what they know they can get (from you).
For example, Apple's "piracy problem" with all their software is orders of magnitude higher than Adobe's and yet their software is orders of magnitude *lower* in price. Apple doesn't make software as a "loss leader" and they do make a profit on it.
Adobe is engaging in a classic monopoly position here and all of their behaviours are "textbook" monopolistic behaviours.
Their product is buggy and poorly designed, their "customer" is not the end user but the high end graphics business, both the organisation itself and the software it produces is bloated and over-wrought, and the prices it charges are based on what the market can bear, not on any kind of value/cost proposition.
Well I think it's pretty clear that you have a beef with Adobe, which is fine.
However, I wasn't dealing in absolutes which you seem to be trying to stuff down my mouth. Obviously the high price of their software isn't totally to do with piracy, I would never make such an outlandish and obviously stupid claim. I don't get how piracy can only "sometimes" raise costs for software developers if it is happening all the time, but I digress.
Apple's piracy problem is only higher because they don't use activation on their software (at least none that I use) for better or worse. Frankly I think they are trying to copy Microsoft's approach to let (well look the other way anyways) people pirate it so that their market share increases. My guess would be that Snow Leopard at $29 will be a loss leader, if not initially, than over time with support costs, etc. Safari is a loss leader because Apple doesn't charge for it.
Also I contest that Adobe is a monopoly, on the same grounds that many here claim Apple doesn't hold a monopoly: They have competition from Corel, Quark, Open Source, and many others. Those others may not be "as good" or as predominately in use as Adobe's products, but that is enough to disclaim a monopoly at least legally, and one would think, indicate that a good number of people think that Adobe's software has value and is useful in their business.
That being said, if Corel produced software that was better than Adobe's and everyone started using it, we'd drop Adobe in a second.
Since when has that ever been legal or moral jusification for theft? Using your logic car hijacking should be legal because he the poor creep can't afford to buy his own. Maybe squaring in your home or apartment should be legal too, after all the scum bag can't afford it because he is to lazy to get a job. After all you just stated that theft based on lack of means is not an issue.
Frankly I'm not sure why Appleinsider doesn't have a policy of banning people that advocate such stupidity. From my point of view it is a grossness society doesn't need.
Dave
Unfortunately, there will always be liars, cheaters and thieves. To rationalize that it's OK to steal if you don't want to save up to buy a produce is just plain crazy and wrong.
Using stolen software is immoral and there is no way to justify stealing.
Comments
Much more extensive compatibility list here
http://snowleopard.wikidot.com/
Seems a bit inaccurate to me. I've been having trouble with Handbrake and Transmit. Still it's a great resource.
As the owner of a design studio I want to upgrade my systems but still a little wary about compatibility with Adobe CS3. I think CS4 was not worth the upgrade at the time and have been happy with 3. Hopefully Adobe will catch up soon (wishful thinking)
Anyone had time to test and had luck with CS3 compatibility ? Particularly Illustrator + Hot door's Cad Tools plug in ?
Really wanting to upgrade to Snow Leopard but don't want our productivity to come to a screeching halt. Thanks for any feedback.
Check out this site ... according CS3 is compatible. ...http://snowleopard.wikidot.com/
Individuals pirating this software are not forcing the prices up; they would never have the means to purchase it anyway.
Ah yes, the lame a$$ argument by pirates.
Except that argument doesn't take into account the money software companies like Adobe have to pay for lawyers and the BSA to fight people who steal their property (and thus their IP including copyright, trademark, patents, etc...), thus raising their costs which - you guessed it - goes back into the prices of the product. Nor does take into account the additional costs of support from the number of users who use their product, legally or not, such as bandwidth for software updates, extra support to the designers and printers who service people who may be pirating software, etc...
Where did you hear that?
From Amazon: "Upgrade Path Alert for Snow Leopard
Please note, that only Apple OS X Leopard users are eligible for the Snow Leopard upgrade. Tiger & earlier OS users will need to purchase either versions of the upgraded Mac Box Set."
Walt Mossberg, in his Wall Street Journal review of SL, reported Apple conceded to him that the SL upgrade works with Tiger, too, without purchasing the interim version. I'm pretty sure AI carried that report.
Do you seriously believe that? The prices are what they are not because of piracy, but because design and print shops need the software and are willing and able to pay that price. Individuals pirating this software are not forcing the prices up; they would never have the means to purchase it anyway.
Since when has that ever been legal or moral jusification for theft? Using your logic car hijacking should be legal because he the poor creep can't afford to buy his own. Maybe squaring in your home or apartment should be legal too, after all the scum bag can't afford it because he is to lazy to get a job. After all you just stated that theft based on lack of means is not an issue.
Frankly I'm not sure why Appleinsider doesn't have a policy of banning people that advocate such stupidity. From my point of view it is a grossness society doesn't need.
Dave
Ah yes, the lame a$$ argument by pirates.
Except that argument doesn't take into account the money software companies like Adobe have to pay for lawyers and the BSA to fight people who steal their property (and thus their IP including copyright, trademark, patents, etc...), thus raising their costs which - you guessed it - goes back into the prices of the product. ...
While you might have a point about piracy adding to software costs in the general sense, in the context of the original argument about Adobe software in particular, you are dead wrong here.
The high price of Adobe software is directly related to the monopoly they have and the fact that they can get almost whatever they ask from the high end shops that use it. The aggregation of all decent design software in the hands of a single company (Adobe), is the direct cause of the high prices, just as the same thing occurs with Windows. They are the classic "cash cows."
The end consumer is not served by monopolies in any way, they always lead to high prices, poor quality, and poor service. This is exactly what you see from Adobe today.
While you might have a point about piracy adding to software costs in the general sense, in the context of the original argument about Adobe software in particular, you are dead wrong here.
The high price of Adobe software is directly related to the monopoly they have and the fact that they can get almost whatever they ask from the high end shops that use it. The aggregation of all decent design software in the hands of a single company (Adobe), is the direct cause of the high prices, just as the same thing occurs with Windows. They are the classic "cash cows."
The end consumer is not served by monopolies in any way, they always lead to high prices, poor quality, and poor service. This is exactly what you see from Adobe today.
Again, could not have said it better myself. Adobe has known for probably years what Apples software path is and yet there are compatibility issues. I'm hearing (very little) but that CS5 which hopefully takes advantage of SL technologies won't be out until 2011. WTF ! I'm running a maxed out Mac Pro and Illustrator is sluggish. What do I get with an upgrade; a new brush tool or a change in UI which takes weeks to understand. I just don't think Adobe understands it's user's. I want a fast, reliable program that doesn't crash twice a day, not a bunch of added stuff I'll never use.
Come to think of it...Adobe needs to do what Apple just did. Instead of adding a bunch of new pointless crap they should take CS4 and optimize the hell out of it, multi thread, 64 bit, no bugs or crashes.
... So when we have to pay more for our tools because of pirating, ...
This is not true at all. This is what Adobe tells you is the cause of the high price so you direct your anger at the pirates and not at them.
Piracy is a problem in general that *sometimes* raises costs for manufacturers, but it's a minor effect and definitely not the cause of Adobe's high prices. Adobe's prices are high because they ask for what they know they can get (from you).
For example, Apple's "piracy problem" with all their software is orders of magnitude higher than Adobe's and yet their software is orders of magnitude *lower* in price. Apple doesn't make software as a "loss leader" and they do make a profit on it.
Adobe is engaging in a classic monopoly position here and all of their behaviours are "textbook" monopolistic behaviours.
Their product is buggy and poorly designed, their "customer" is not the end user but the high end graphics business, both the organisation itself and the software it produces is bloated and over-wrought, and the prices it charges are based on what the market can bear, not on any kind of value/cost proposition.
The following applications are moved to the "Incompatible Software" folder by default upon installation:
Silicon Image SiI3132 Drivers ver. 1.5.16.0
Well that makes Snow Leopard a no-go for me given that I keep all of my work on an eSATA drive. Both the eSATA Expresscard I use in my MacBook Pro and the eSATA PCIe card I use in my Mac Pro are based around the Sil3132 chipset. Hopefully this is resolved soon...
And whatever the initial problem, it will all be worked out in few weeks by the companies that created them. And that makes me wonder why these companies didn't update their softwares all this time that the OS was in development. The answer is simple; they just want you to buy the latest copy.
I don't use any of them, and I don't need them!
Anyway... Piracy is a odd bird...
Some people get the 'bug' to be a collector of software. I knew many of them when I was growing up. They had every software program you could ever imagine, most you'd never heard of! The kids didn't use the stuff... but they HAD the floppies!
Obsessive compulsive works quite well.
Now... a 12 year old downloading "Stedman's Medical Dictionary 27th Edition, with Veterinary Medicine Insert" does WHAT to the bottom line of the publisher? Nothing, when you look at it superficially! So in the pirates eyes:
"I would have never bought it in the first place and had little to no use for it, It didn't hurt anyone and I certainly didn't cost the company any money"
HOWEVER
The fact that the title was in some way openly available for download does hurt the company because if a snot nosed 12 year old can get it, then it's also an avenue that a less then reputable doctor might use to pump up the bottom line of is fledgeling practice.
And THAT does hurt the bottom line...
So yea me downloading a $20k engineering CAD software system wouldn't translate into a $20k loss for the published since I wouldn't even begin to know what to actually do with it. However, the fact that I could get it means so can people who normally would be potential customers.
Two sides of the same coin and unfortunately for the 'recreational pirate' (he who has the most complete collection of useless crapware wins) side of the coin can't be separated from cheapskate who wants a free ride.
Dave
The aggregation of all decent design software in the hands of a single company (Adobe), is the direct cause of the high prices, just as the same thing occurs with Windows. They are the classic "cash cows."
This part is unfortunate for consumers, but if you follow the history of DTP all the way back from invention of Adobe Postscript, Illustrator and later Photoshop there were never any serious competitors in those areas. The applications that became the pinnacle of the DTP business were the page layout programs namely Quark and Pagemaker. Adobe didn't have any layout programs so their purchase of Aldus Pagemaker was not considered anti-competitive because Aldus Freehand, a competitor to Illustrator, was not part of the deal.
Fast forward to the acquisition of Macromedia, although Adobe previously attempted to compete with MM in a number of areas they were entirely unsuccessful so they decided to purchased the whole company. How could the Feds prevent it? There was no anti-competitive issues because Adobe's lame efforts to develop products that tried to competed with Flash & Dreamweaver were complete failures and again Freehand was not part of the deal.
So yes it is unfortunate that it turned out that Adobe owns all of the decent design software but the 'cash cow' so to speak is the Postscript language, which they invented, and is the foundation of Acrobat which is probably the most widely used software on the planet. So basically to summarize, I'm arguing that Adobe earned their current status be it good or bad.
The reason there are no competitors is that there is nothing that even comes close in features and quality to Adobe products. Plenty of companies have tried over the years but so far no one has been successful in changing the hearts and minds of the professional designers.
Where did you hear that?
From Amazon: "Upgrade Path Alert for Snow Leopard
Please note, that only Apple OS X Leopard users are eligible for the Snow Leopard upgrade. Tiger & earlier OS users will need to purchase either versions of the upgraded Mac Box Set."
real world is usually different
MS did the exact same thing in the 1990's with windows. you could boot of a win98 upgrade CD and a blank hard drive and it would prompt you for the earlier version CD or floppies. i think they stopped it with Vista or XP, but not sure
in some of their products in the 1990's all you had to do was put all 1's for the key. it was all planned for people to pirate some copies to get devs to develop more apps for the increased user base
This is not true at all. This is what Adobe tells you is the cause of the high price so you direct your anger at the pirates and not at them.
Piracy is a problem in general that *sometimes* raises costs for manufacturers, but it's a minor effect and definitely not the cause of Adobe's high prices. Adobe's prices are high because they ask for what they know they can get (from you).
For example, Apple's "piracy problem" with all their software is orders of magnitude higher than Adobe's and yet their software is orders of magnitude *lower* in price. Apple doesn't make software as a "loss leader" and they do make a profit on it.
Adobe is engaging in a classic monopoly position here and all of their behaviours are "textbook" monopolistic behaviours.
Their product is buggy and poorly designed, their "customer" is not the end user but the high end graphics business, both the organisation itself and the software it produces is bloated and over-wrought, and the prices it charges are based on what the market can bear, not on any kind of value/cost proposition.
Well said and to the point about Adobe. And Apple.
This is not true at all. This is what Adobe tells you is the cause of the high price so you direct your anger at the pirates and not at them.
Piracy is a problem in general that *sometimes* raises costs for manufacturers, but it's a minor effect and definitely not the cause of Adobe's high prices. Adobe's prices are high because they ask for what they know they can get (from you).
For example, Apple's "piracy problem" with all their software is orders of magnitude higher than Adobe's and yet their software is orders of magnitude *lower* in price. Apple doesn't make software as a "loss leader" and they do make a profit on it.
Adobe is engaging in a classic monopoly position here and all of their behaviours are "textbook" monopolistic behaviours.
Their product is buggy and poorly designed, their "customer" is not the end user but the high end graphics business, both the organisation itself and the software it produces is bloated and over-wrought, and the prices it charges are based on what the market can bear, not on any kind of value/cost proposition.
Well I think it's pretty clear that you have a beef with Adobe, which is fine.
However, I wasn't dealing in absolutes which you seem to be trying to stuff down my mouth. Obviously the high price of their software isn't totally to do with piracy, I would never make such an outlandish and obviously stupid claim. I don't get how piracy can only "sometimes" raise costs for software developers if it is happening all the time, but I digress.
Apple's piracy problem is only higher because they don't use activation on their software (at least none that I use) for better or worse. Frankly I think they are trying to copy Microsoft's approach to let (well look the other way anyways) people pirate it so that their market share increases. My guess would be that Snow Leopard at $29 will be a loss leader, if not initially, than over time with support costs, etc. Safari is a loss leader because Apple doesn't charge for it.
Also I contest that Adobe is a monopoly, on the same grounds that many here claim Apple doesn't hold a monopoly: They have competition from Corel, Quark, Open Source, and many others. Those others may not be "as good" or as predominately in use as Adobe's products, but that is enough to disclaim a monopoly at least legally, and one would think, indicate that a good number of people think that Adobe's software has value and is useful in their business.
That being said, if Corel produced software that was better than Adobe's and everyone started using it, we'd drop Adobe in a second.
MacJournal.
Rosetta Stone (Mandarin 1,2,3) - Language Software
Final Draft 7
These are the only apps that are holding me back from SL. All other apps passed the SL compatibility test. Thank you.
You can install it on a newly partitioned hard drive with no other dvds needed. You can even wipe tiger off and wap snow leopard straight on for $29
So does that mean the $29 DVD is bootable? Or do you have to attach the blank hard drive to a Mac that already has Mac OS installed?
Seems a bit inaccurate to me. I've been having trouble with Handbrake and Transmit. Still it's a great resource.
So update the wiki. Create an account and edit the page and let others know as well.
Since when has that ever been legal or moral jusification for theft? Using your logic car hijacking should be legal because he the poor creep can't afford to buy his own. Maybe squaring in your home or apartment should be legal too, after all the scum bag can't afford it because he is to lazy to get a job. After all you just stated that theft based on lack of means is not an issue.
Frankly I'm not sure why Appleinsider doesn't have a policy of banning people that advocate such stupidity. From my point of view it is a grossness society doesn't need.
Dave
Unfortunately, there will always be liars, cheaters and thieves. To rationalize that it's OK to steal if you don't want to save up to buy a produce is just plain crazy and wrong.
Using stolen software is immoral and there is no way to justify stealing.