what i'm talking about are people who look at a guy in college playing volleyball, soccer and lacrosse, and saying it's not fair that they can't eat like him, 'cause it's genetics.
Actually those cases do exist.
2 examples:
I knew a kid a few years back who was not fat so much persay, but he was wide. He was chubby we'll say (he had the tell tale signs of being slightly overweight). He lived more or less on fresh vegitables and the odd thing he could snag elsewhere (Id say that his parents were negligent), and he probably rode 13km a day down dirt roads and up hills (he rode to town and back, which was each about 6-7km). His fathers side of the family (he didnt live with his dad)was fairly overweight, not bad, but he had a pot belly, and was generally less than tip top shape.
On the other hand, a friend of mine today.
This kid walks around a bit, but generally stays home a lot. He usually doesnt get up until 12pm at the earliest, and stays up late playing games. His diet is good, but he eats in very large quanitities, easily scarfing down a couple of dishes (and were talking BIG dishes) at our local chinese restaurant.
Hes a tooth pick. He seriously gains NO weight. I think he ways 100lb and hes close to 6ft tall.
His family? All exactly the same.
Now for the lardos (the people who get pit cheese in their folds of fat) are legitly overweight. That kind of fat deposit comes from a negligent lifestyle, and as such is simply their own fault.
It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy. Why do we all have to be at the same weight and the same height. Isn't beauty inside instead of outside. Aren't beautiful smile, beautiful eyes more important than being a skeleton. People often mistake being healthy with being ultra skinny. Maybe you guys should take more to develop your intellect.
<strong>It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy.</strong><hr></blockquote>The problem is that being overweight is unhealthy. It's associated with all kinds of health problems, like CVD, cancer, breathing-related disorders, and, like I said in an earlier post in this thread, adult-onset diabetes is basically an epidemic in the US right now, due almost entirely to people being so fat.
Rather than trying to make people feel better about being overweight, I think some stigma is a good thing. I guess I'm a jerk.
[quote] It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.<hr></blockquote>
Certainly in the eyes of some other women...
There's fat and there's fat. From a health perspective, most women can hover around 15%-25% body fat and be perfectly fine, even if they don't look like Kate Moss. Some can carry more. Out where I am (Iowa) women with a bit extra are quite common, and judging by the scene here, they're not pariahs for sporting a few curves. But then, this is a colder climate with a lot of northern European blood, so people are just bigger as a rule.
For myself, I'm 6'2" and 280 pounds, and that doesn't say much either (neither does my handle, before you ask ). I just about fit into an athletic cut jacket, and I'm about 30 pounds overweight according to the last trainer I talked to. I'm down from almost 300, and it feels great.
There's a lot to be said for being healthy. It has nothing to do with the aesthetic tyranny of Cosmopolitan. It has to do with feeling comfortable in your own skin.
whats it with all the Americans always feeling victimized when they see a title like this one? Jesus, we always think everyone is out to get us or something!!!!
Americans can be thanked for the wonderful creation of fast food and the ever evading promise of an easier life... which is supposed to mean more time free, etc... but then translates into us just being lazier.
In Italy, just 10 years ago it was pretty odd to give your kids 'twinkies' or other wrappered foods as snacks. There always used to be some bread, ham, cheese, etc... but not just reprocessed meat mind you... I mean smoked ham and fresh cheese... not that Real (which is actually fake) cheese. Anyway, thanks to the wonderful import of american-style living, I see thousands of 10-15year old obese kids all over the place.
When I was in Rome in the summers as a kid, we would always be outside and play.... now every kid is hooked in front of a play station or pc playing games... and I mean all of them.
In 10 more years I really fear for the average Italian.
So, is this anti-american? No, not really. But I can say this much, it IS American corporations and "way of life" that is continously FORCED and PUSHED onto EVERY DAMN CULTURE OF THE WORLD in one way or another and its really really incredibly disturbing. Just because the USA IS the most powerful nation in the world DOES NOT mean we have to continously change everyone's thinking all the damn time!
It's all the fast food McDonalds etc. and television. But check this: I love my Burger King and Taco Bell, eat junk food all the time, and I look like a bean pole!!!
It is becoming more and more clear to me, Zo, that you are very close to being an imbecile.
And drop this "we" shit, you are not an American so do not speak as one or attempt to speak for Americans. You are an idiot, plain and simple.
Quite funny how you turn such a blind eye to your own precious continent's culpability for its own state. Blame your own watered-down socialist states for their own flaws.
lol, if someone can explain to me how Hostess and McDonalds are forcing Italians into eating their food i'll take that Corporate America is Evil crap with a touch of respect.
fact is, everyone wants to eat it 'cause it tastes great, and it's really friggin' easy. Americans just lead the way. then everyone else goes "hey, that's a good idea" (except for cell phones and pagers, where we're years behind)
and a women without curves looks like a boy, so what's the point?
It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy. Why do we all have to be at the same weight and the same height. Isn't beauty inside instead of outside. Aren't beautiful smile, beautiful eyes more important than being a skeleton. People often mistake being healthy with being ultra skinny. Maybe you guys should take more to develop your intellect.
<hr></blockquote>
I prefer a healthy woman.5' 4" and 140 lbs. is perfect for me.I like women who are soft and round,they are the most beautiful.Unfortunately there is a lot of prejudice against women of this type,generally they have a negative self-image,and it's very difficult for me to express the fact that I adore them-they think I'm crazy because they themselves want to be thin-a tragic situation.
<strong>It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy. Why do we all have to be at the same weight and the same height. Isn't beauty inside instead of outside. Aren't beautiful smile, beautiful eyes more important than being a skeleton. People often mistake being healthy with being ultra skinny. Maybe you guys should take more to develop your intellect.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jane:
We can't do it, at least, not while we're young guys. Y'see, where you women have one brain (capable of processing FOUR separate tracks of thought-wet ware multiprocessing) we are stuck with THREE brains. The brain between our ears is for huntin', gatherin', an' lookin' at women. Our programming is such that we're looking for breeding stock (that's a fact according to TV . ) That's all that we do.
Now if you consult Gray's Anatomy, and turn to the section on testicles and compare them to the brain you will make the astonishing discovery that the brain has a more than passing resemblance to the testicle! (This is why you read AppleInsider; to learn stuff).
College bio prof tried to tell us that testicles had something to do with sperm(?) or somesuch tomfoolery. Ha! I instantly saw the resemblance and realized that the testicles are actually assistant brains. In the event that the cranial brain stops thinking about mating issues, the testicles issue interrupt vectors to the crainial brain telling it to keep looking for a mate.
This situation only changes when the male has a ribbon of precious metal affixed to his left hand. From that point on, the testicles... just hang there, doing what, I do not know.
Doubt that this helps, but I hope it put a smile on your face.
<strong>It is becoming more and more clear to me, Zo, that you are very close to being an imbecile.
And drop this "we" shit, you are not an American so do not speak as one or attempt to speak for Americans. You are an idiot, plain and simple.
Quite funny how you turn such a blind eye to your own precious continent's culpability for its own state. Blame your own watered-down socialist states for their own flaws.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am American. And if need be I can prove it... but I don't think you give a damn any way. I've just been able to step away from the USA for a while be able to see American life from different perspectives instead of the closed and padded view most Americans like to think of themselves as being in.
I wasn't blaming the USA for the fact that people are attracted to junk food and what not. Its just that the USA basically created junk food and has been pushing it like crazy over here these last few decades. I don't blame the USA that Europeans, or others, are eating the junk food. From a place where quality comes before quantity, its rapidly becoming like the USA where so much is just fluff and appearences... but very little substance. You cannot deny this. Case in point, when you have the money and want to buy QUALITY do you buy American luxury goods or European? Do you buy a Rolex, Ferrari, Cartier, etc or a Belair watch, Cadillac, etc? Im not dissing the quality of the latter but, do you get my point? Heck there was even 3 issue special on Newsweek sometime this summer with about 20pages each issue on European quality, etc and how Americans look to Europe for good stuff.
What am I getting to? I'm worried that the cultural implications of fast food (quantity and no substance over quality) will become a common way of thinking for my and future generations of Europeans will cut corners, become superficial, and look at speed speed speed and make sure its just cheaper and to hell with quality... lets just sell more! Jaguar started going that way. Only recently have they gotten their act together... but otherwise, they were making some of the worst cars in the world. The common saying was that if you get a Jag, you better be rich enough to buy two of them... one will always be in the garage getting repaired! (just to clarify for the rabid USA #1 patriots, I am NOT blaming this on the USA... yeeesh).
You can call Europeans names all you want... but, just like with Americans, you can't generalize. And whats wrong with socialism? You act like its a damn disease or something! Sure, too much socialism sucks, but heck, its done great things here. Too much of anything is bad. One of the lesser goods it has done, admittedly, is create incredibly bloated bureaucracies... but otherwise, it ain't that bad here. Trust me, I came to Europe thinking the same things as Groverat and others.. that this place was just a commie cove and USA haters. It ain't folks, get over it. After 10+ years here, you come to appreciate the goods and the bads of my beloved USA as well as the good and the bads of Europe.
I always love getting sh!t on this forum because I give something else to think about or from a different perspective... albeit sometimes a bit too dofferent. But why do some of you take what I say so damn litterally? Be a bit more open minded!
Alcimedes, I can't say that McDonalds is soley responsible for Italians getting fatter, but as I said before, its these types of places that are changing the very fabric of any culture, like the italian one. Not that I think it should be banned or that I don't go there myself... but some kids don't have meals at home anymore where for centuries the people of a certain culture is used to a certian DIET. Italian food has always been, central and southern italy, very healthy... bread, pasta, vegetables, olive oil, etc. Now all of a sudden you have kids, and adults, changing their diets radically to grease oils, vegetable fried oils, sugars, cholesterol, etc etc. This is a major change! And you can see it! Is this America's fault? Yes and no. They are not forcing anyone to eat it, but then again, it wasn't available until they came. McDonald's has been in Italy only for about 15years and I still remember when it first opened in Rome. No one used to go because Italians that went were like "what is this crap? its terrible". Then younger generations started going and getting used to the artificial tastes, and after 15 years its everywhere... like a damn cancer. Because kids command the costs of a house-hold, parents have to go to McDonald's as well and they have gotten used to it. Now most Italians accept mediocre (not to say disgusting) cuisine. We have instant foods, microwave dinners (another bane of society) and other mediocre sh!t. You get used to mediocre, and it carries on to how you live life and your attitude twords life and work and society.
Hah, just thought of a good example. I live in the center of Rome where you always have droves of American tourists, and they go to the restaurants that are set-up for them by tourist agencies. An Italian would die rather than eat that food they are given... but the American tourists just laugh and are happy that they are being fed what they think is super Italian cuisine. And its not like its bad... its just mediocre... and the tourists LOVE it! I have brought many many many of my American friends out to eat and GOOD restaurants... and you know what... they usually dont like it much because its too good. Huh? What I mean is that the food has more 'personality' to it... it TASTES of something... and it seems that my American friends want an average taste, not too much, not to little. Mediocre taste. So, I bring them to a tourist trap restaurant and they are happy. Go figure.
Do I exagerrate? Not a bit. If you could have seen or witnessed this change as I have, you would know that what I am saying is not BS. Do I want culture to stop and stay at a stand still? No, but maybe we should ALL be a bit more responsible as to making some quick money and changing the diets and culture of entire societies and countries.
Dang... that was a hell of a post. Can't wait for the abuse... bring it on.
One cup of *uncooked* rice is more than a meal, but that's beside the point. Besides cooking rice will change its nutritional value.
Like I said before, it all depends on what you eat, not how many calories are on the food package. How many calories do you think end up in your poop? How many in your neighbor's? The answer isn't always the same.
[quote]Alcimedes, I can't say that McDonalds is soley responsible for Italians getting fatter, but as I said before, its these types of places that are changing the very fabric of any culture, like the italian one. .................................................. ..........................Do I want culture to stop and stay at a stand still? No, but maybe we should ALL be a bit more responsible as to making some quick money and changing the diets and culture of entire societies and countries.
<hr></blockquote>
actually, when you rephrase that, that's fine with me, i don't disagree with you there. you could get into whether or not parents should let their kids dictate that stuff, but it's really a superficial arguement at that point. you're essentially right.
[quote]Like I said before, it all depends on what you eat, not how many calories are on the food package. How many calories do you think end up in your poop? How many in your neighbor's? The answer isn't always the same.<hr></blockquote>
my point is to some people is does matter how many calories are in the food package. what you poop out is a moot point. if you don't take in a crapload ( ) more than you need, you won't be pooping a bunch out, or converting a bunch to fat.
i'm talking about controlling the problem before it enters into the system. you're talking about how different people deal with it after it's in the system. just don't let it enter the system and you can't have a problem with it.
one reason i focus on rice is that i ate a lot of it in college. i had a rice cooker and would consistantly go through a 50lb. bag every semester. you basically can't eat enough rice to get fat, if that makes up 80% of your diet.
This explains a lot about the rest of your ideas.</strong><hr></blockquote>
do you even know what Socialism is? I am NOT a Socialist... but there are some things and ideas that have been done in the name of socialism that were good. Not everything is black and white you know?
And at least back-up your ideas with some thoughts or comments as to WHY you think that instead of some silly one-liners like above.
Im not out to convert the masses or PROVE everyone wrong, Im just trying to open more points of view and input. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me either. But I sure as hell am not going to just fade away because I present different views.
Well, I'm all set to go to lunch at the all-you-can-eat Golden Corral Steakhouse Buffet. For only $5.79 I can choose damn near anything I want to eat. If I choose to eat healthy, I will/do.
Compare this to $5 spent at McDonald's.
It's a bargain. And they have plenty of fresh fruits, grains, virii, etc. to choose from.
[quote]And at least back-up your ideas with some thoughts or comments as to WHY you think that instead of some silly one-liners like above. <hr></blockquote>
Okay.
McDonald's freely purchases a parcel of land in Italy. Abiding entirely within the laws of the country, they build a McDonalds fast food joint. They charge for their goods. Italians come into the McDonalds, are enticed by the products, and purchase them. They enjoy the products, so they return often.
Seeing the potential for profits, other Italian businessmen open up McDonalds franchises around the country. More people visit them. More people find they like the food.
Some of these patrons enjoy the food a little bit too much and exercise not quite enough. They willingly spend more money on the junk food than they should, and they willingly don't exercise. They grow fat.
That's the way the whole process works. Individuals do what they want and accept the burden of responsibility for their free actions.
And yet, in your mind, you see this:
[quote]But I can say this much, it IS American corporations and "way of life" that is continously FORCED and PUSHED onto EVERY DAMN CULTURE OF THE WORLD in one way or another and its really really incredibly disturbing. Just because the USA IS the most powerful nation in the world DOES NOT mean we have to continously change everyone's thinking all the damn time!<hr></blockquote>
Your statement is radically collectivist. You abdicate the rights and responsibilities of the Individual in favor of some greater cultural good, and some greater collective responsibility. By that standard, you made a caustic attack on the USA.
Thus, when you stated that you didn't consider Socialism such a bad thing, you made it crystal clear that your attack on the culture of the USA wasn't conducted simply out of ignorance or bitterness; it was based on your (in my opinion, dangerously misguided) collectivist tendancies.
Hence the "silly" one liner:
[quote]This explains a lot about the rest of your ideas.<hr></blockquote>
Comments
<strong>If only rice didn't taste so bad.
Since when does rice taste bad?
Actually those cases do exist.
2 examples:
I knew a kid a few years back who was not fat so much persay, but he was wide. He was chubby we'll say (he had the tell tale signs of being slightly overweight). He lived more or less on fresh vegitables and the odd thing he could snag elsewhere (Id say that his parents were negligent), and he probably rode 13km a day down dirt roads and up hills (he rode to town and back, which was each about 6-7km). His fathers side of the family (he didnt live with his dad)was fairly overweight, not bad, but he had a pot belly, and was generally less than tip top shape.
On the other hand, a friend of mine today.
This kid walks around a bit, but generally stays home a lot. He usually doesnt get up until 12pm at the earliest, and stays up late playing games. His diet is good, but he eats in very large quanitities, easily scarfing down a couple of dishes (and were talking BIG dishes) at our local chinese restaurant.
Hes a tooth pick. He seriously gains NO weight. I think he ways 100lb and hes close to 6ft tall.
His family? All exactly the same.
Now for the lardos (the people who get pit cheese in their folds of fat) are legitly overweight. That kind of fat deposit comes from a negligent lifestyle, and as such is simply their own fault.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy. Why do we all have to be at the same weight and the same height. Isn't beauty inside instead of outside. Aren't beautiful smile, beautiful eyes more important than being a skeleton. People often mistake being healthy with being ultra skinny. Maybe you guys should take more to develop your intellect.
<strong>It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh Please
<strong>It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy.</strong><hr></blockquote>The problem is that being overweight is unhealthy. It's associated with all kinds of health problems, like CVD, cancer, breathing-related disorders, and, like I said in an earlier post in this thread, adult-onset diabetes is basically an epidemic in the US right now, due almost entirely to people being so fat.
Rather than trying to make people feel better about being overweight, I think some stigma is a good thing. I guess I'm a jerk.
Certainly in the eyes of some other women...
There's fat and there's fat. From a health perspective, most women can hover around 15%-25% body fat and be perfectly fine, even if they don't look like Kate Moss. Some can carry more. Out where I am (Iowa) women with a bit extra are quite common, and judging by the scene here, they're not pariahs for sporting a few curves. But then, this is a colder climate with a lot of northern European blood, so people are just bigger as a rule.
For myself, I'm 6'2" and 280 pounds, and that doesn't say much either (neither does my handle, before you ask
There's a lot to be said for being healthy. It has nothing to do with the aesthetic tyranny of Cosmopolitan. It has to do with feeling comfortable in your own skin.
<strong>If only rice didn't taste so bad.
Once you get used to eating small amounts of food it actually gets kinda fun.
I used to be really chubby when I was in 6th grade or so but now I'm 5' 8" 125 lbs.
I think rice tastes ok.
You sound like how I was. In 5th grade I was kinda chubby but now I'm 5'8" and 130lbs.
Americans can be thanked for the wonderful creation of fast food and the ever evading promise of an easier life... which is supposed to mean more time free, etc... but then translates into us just being lazier.
In Italy, just 10 years ago it was pretty odd to give your kids 'twinkies' or other wrappered foods as snacks. There always used to be some bread, ham, cheese, etc... but not just reprocessed meat mind you... I mean smoked ham and fresh cheese... not that Real (which is actually fake) cheese. Anyway, thanks to the wonderful import of american-style living, I see thousands of 10-15year old obese kids all over the place.
When I was in Rome in the summers as a kid, we would always be outside and play.... now every kid is hooked in front of a play station or pc playing games... and I mean all of them.
In 10 more years I really fear for the average Italian.
So, is this anti-american? No, not really. But I can say this much, it IS American corporations and "way of life" that is continously FORCED and PUSHED onto EVERY DAMN CULTURE OF THE WORLD in one way or another and its really really incredibly disturbing. Just because the USA IS the most powerful nation in the world DOES NOT mean we have to continously change everyone's thinking all the damn time!
And drop this "we" shit, you are not an American so do not speak as one or attempt to speak for Americans. You are an idiot, plain and simple.
Quite funny how you turn such a blind eye to your own precious continent's culpability for its own state. Blame your own watered-down socialist states for their own flaws.
fact is, everyone wants to eat it 'cause it tastes great, and it's really friggin' easy. Americans just lead the way. then everyone else goes "hey, that's a good idea" (except for cell phones and pagers, where we're years behind)
and a women without curves looks like a boy, so what's the point?
It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy. Why do we all have to be at the same weight and the same height. Isn't beauty inside instead of outside. Aren't beautiful smile, beautiful eyes more important than being a skeleton. People often mistake being healthy with being ultra skinny. Maybe you guys should take more to develop your intellect.
<hr></blockquote>
I prefer a healthy woman.5' 4" and 140 lbs. is perfect for me.I like women who are soft and round,they are the most beautiful.Unfortunately there is a lot of prejudice against women of this type,generally they have a negative self-image,and it's very difficult for me to express the fact that I adore them-they think I'm crazy because they themselves want to be thin-a tragic situation.
<strong>It depends what you call fat. If you are a woman and you are one pound over the limit of 100 pounds and 6 feet tall in our society now you are fat.
In another time voluptuous women would not be considered fat but healthy. Why do we all have to be at the same weight and the same height. Isn't beauty inside instead of outside. Aren't beautiful smile, beautiful eyes more important than being a skeleton. People often mistake being healthy with being ultra skinny. Maybe you guys should take more to develop your intellect.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jane:
We can't do it, at least, not while we're young guys. Y'see, where you women have one brain (capable of processing FOUR separate tracks of thought-wet ware multiprocessing) we are stuck with THREE brains. The brain between our ears is for huntin', gatherin', an' lookin' at women. Our programming is such that we're looking for breeding stock (that's a fact according to TV
Now if you consult Gray's Anatomy, and turn to the section on testicles and compare them to the brain you will make the astonishing discovery that the brain has a more than passing resemblance to the testicle! (This is why you read AppleInsider; to learn stuff).
College bio prof tried to tell us that testicles had something to do with sperm(?) or somesuch tomfoolery. Ha! I instantly saw the resemblance and realized that the testicles are actually assistant brains. In the event that the cranial brain stops thinking about mating issues, the testicles issue interrupt vectors to the crainial brain telling it to keep looking for a mate.
This situation only changes when the male has a ribbon of precious metal affixed to his left hand. From that point on, the testicles... just hang there, doing what, I do not know.
Doubt that this helps, but I hope it put a smile on your face.
Aries 1B
<strong>It is becoming more and more clear to me, Zo, that you are very close to being an imbecile.
And drop this "we" shit, you are not an American so do not speak as one or attempt to speak for Americans. You are an idiot, plain and simple.
Quite funny how you turn such a blind eye to your own precious continent's culpability for its own state. Blame your own watered-down socialist states for their own flaws.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am American. And if need be I can prove it... but I don't think you give a damn any way. I've just been able to step away from the USA for a while be able to see American life from different perspectives instead of the closed and padded view most Americans like to think of themselves as being in.
I wasn't blaming the USA for the fact that people are attracted to junk food and what not. Its just that the USA basically created junk food and has been pushing it like crazy over here these last few decades. I don't blame the USA that Europeans, or others, are eating the junk food. From a place where quality comes before quantity, its rapidly becoming like the USA where so much is just fluff and appearences... but very little substance. You cannot deny this. Case in point, when you have the money and want to buy QUALITY do you buy American luxury goods or European? Do you buy a Rolex, Ferrari, Cartier, etc or a Belair watch, Cadillac, etc? Im not dissing the quality of the latter but, do you get my point? Heck there was even 3 issue special on Newsweek sometime this summer with about 20pages each issue on European quality, etc and how Americans look to Europe for good stuff.
What am I getting to? I'm worried that the cultural implications of fast food (quantity and no substance over quality) will become a common way of thinking for my and future generations of Europeans will cut corners, become superficial, and look at speed speed speed and make sure its just cheaper and to hell with quality... lets just sell more! Jaguar started going that way. Only recently have they gotten their act together... but otherwise, they were making some of the worst cars in the world. The common saying was that if you get a Jag, you better be rich enough to buy two of them... one will always be in the garage getting repaired! (just to clarify for the rabid USA #1 patriots, I am NOT blaming this on the USA... yeeesh).
You can call Europeans names all you want... but, just like with Americans, you can't generalize. And whats wrong with socialism? You act like its a damn disease or something! Sure, too much socialism sucks, but heck, its done great things here. Too much of anything is bad. One of the lesser goods it has done, admittedly, is create incredibly bloated bureaucracies... but otherwise, it ain't that bad here. Trust me, I came to Europe thinking the same things as Groverat and others.. that this place was just a commie cove and USA haters. It ain't folks, get over it. After 10+ years here, you come to appreciate the goods and the bads of my beloved USA as well as the good and the bads of Europe.
I always love getting sh!t on this forum because I give something else to think about or from a different perspective... albeit sometimes a bit too dofferent. But why do some of you take what I say so damn litterally? Be a bit more open minded!
Alcimedes, I can't say that McDonalds is soley responsible for Italians getting fatter, but as I said before, its these types of places that are changing the very fabric of any culture, like the italian one. Not that I think it should be banned or that I don't go there myself... but some kids don't have meals at home anymore where for centuries the people of a certain culture is used to a certian DIET. Italian food has always been, central and southern italy, very healthy... bread, pasta, vegetables, olive oil, etc. Now all of a sudden you have kids, and adults, changing their diets radically to grease oils, vegetable fried oils, sugars, cholesterol, etc etc. This is a major change! And you can see it! Is this America's fault? Yes and no. They are not forcing anyone to eat it, but then again, it wasn't available until they came. McDonald's has been in Italy only for about 15years and I still remember when it first opened in Rome. No one used to go because Italians that went were like "what is this crap? its terrible". Then younger generations started going and getting used to the artificial tastes, and after 15 years its everywhere... like a damn cancer. Because kids command the costs of a house-hold, parents have to go to McDonald's as well and they have gotten used to it. Now most Italians accept mediocre (not to say disgusting) cuisine. We have instant foods, microwave dinners (another bane of society) and other mediocre sh!t. You get used to mediocre, and it carries on to how you live life and your attitude twords life and work and society.
Hah, just thought of a good example. I live in the center of Rome where you always have droves of American tourists, and they go to the restaurants that are set-up for them by tourist agencies. An Italian would die rather than eat that food they are given... but the American tourists just laugh and are happy that they are being fed what they think is super Italian cuisine. And its not like its bad... its just mediocre... and the tourists LOVE it! I have brought many many many of my American friends out to eat and GOOD restaurants... and you know what... they usually dont like it much because its too good. Huh? What I mean is that the food has more 'personality' to it... it TASTES of something... and it seems that my American friends want an average taste, not too much, not to little. Mediocre taste. So, I bring them to a tourist trap restaurant and they are happy. Go figure.
Do I exagerrate? Not a bit. If you could have seen or witnessed this change as I have, you would know that what I am saying is not BS. Do I want culture to stop and stay at a stand still? No, but maybe we should ALL be a bit more responsible as to making some quick money and changing the diets and culture of entire societies and countries.
Dang... that was a hell of a post. Can't wait for the abuse... bring it on.
This explains a lot about the rest of your ideas.
Like I said before, it all depends on what you eat, not how many calories are on the food package. How many calories do you think end up in your poop? How many in your neighbor's? The answer isn't always the same.
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actually, when you rephrase that, that's fine with me, i don't disagree with you there. you could get into whether or not parents should let their kids dictate that stuff, but it's really a superficial arguement at that point. you're essentially right.
[quote]Like I said before, it all depends on what you eat, not how many calories are on the food package. How many calories do you think end up in your poop? How many in your neighbor's? The answer isn't always the same.<hr></blockquote>
my point is to some people is does matter how many calories are in the food package. what you poop out is a moot point. if you don't take in a crapload (
i'm talking about controlling the problem before it enters into the system. you're talking about how different people deal with it after it's in the system. just don't let it enter the system and you can't have a problem with it.
one reason i focus on rice is that i ate a lot of it in college. i had a rice cooker and would consistantly go through a 50lb. bag every semester. you basically can't eat enough rice to get fat, if that makes up 80% of your diet.
[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
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This explains a lot about the rest of your ideas.</strong><hr></blockquote>
do you even know what Socialism is? I am NOT a Socialist... but there are some things and ideas that have been done in the name of socialism that were good. Not everything is black and white you know?
And at least back-up your ideas with some thoughts or comments as to WHY you think that instead of some silly one-liners like above.
Im not out to convert the masses or PROVE everyone wrong, Im just trying to open more points of view and input. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me either. But I sure as hell am not going to just fade away because I present different views.
Compare this to $5 spent at McDonald's.
It's a bargain. And they have plenty of fresh fruits, grains, virii, etc. to choose from.
That is why I wear a stretchy-belt!
Okay.
McDonald's freely purchases a parcel of land in Italy. Abiding entirely within the laws of the country, they build a McDonalds fast food joint. They charge for their goods. Italians come into the McDonalds, are enticed by the products, and purchase them. They enjoy the products, so they return often.
Seeing the potential for profits, other Italian businessmen open up McDonalds franchises around the country. More people visit them. More people find they like the food.
Some of these patrons enjoy the food a little bit too much and exercise not quite enough. They willingly spend more money on the junk food than they should, and they willingly don't exercise. They grow fat.
That's the way the whole process works. Individuals do what they want and accept the burden of responsibility for their free actions.
And yet, in your mind, you see this:
[quote]But I can say this much, it IS American corporations and "way of life" that is continously FORCED and PUSHED onto EVERY DAMN CULTURE OF THE WORLD in one way or another and its really really incredibly disturbing. Just because the USA IS the most powerful nation in the world DOES NOT mean we have to continously change everyone's thinking all the damn time!<hr></blockquote>
Your statement is radically collectivist. You abdicate the rights and responsibilities of the Individual in favor of some greater cultural good, and some greater collective responsibility. By that standard, you made a caustic attack on the USA.
Thus, when you stated that you didn't consider Socialism such a bad thing, you made it crystal clear that your attack on the culture of the USA wasn't conducted simply out of ignorance or bitterness; it was based on your (in my opinion, dangerously misguided) collectivist tendancies.
Hence the "silly" one liner:
[quote]This explains a lot about the rest of your ideas.<hr></blockquote>