AT&T defends its iPhone network via YouTube outreach

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  • Reply 81 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GorillaStatz View Post


    Since South Korea is about the size of New Jersey it must be easier to provide service as compared to.... The USA!!! What's it take maybe 25 cell towers to cover the whole country?



    Ever hear of the word ratio or proportion. Finland has 5.3 million people and almost a 99% cell phone penetration. Most Finns have 2 or more cell phones and their networks seem to run just fine based on the proportion of cell phone to population. The bottom line is that AT&T was lazy, and Apple saved their ass from the abyss.



    Also, many to most antenna are installed on existing structures to include buildings, sides of buildings, silos, etc.... Towers is a misnomer.
  • Reply 82 of 210
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    Ever hear of the word ratio or proportion. Finland has 5.3 million people and almost a 99% cell phone penetration. Most Finns have 2 or more cell phones and their networks seem to run just fine based on the proportion of cell phone to population. The bottom line is that AT&T was lazy, and Apple saved their ass from the abyss.



    Also, many to most antenna are installed on existing structures to include buildings, sides of buildings, silos, etc.... Towers is a misnomer.



    It doesn't take a lot to cover Finland's population, despite its legendary ranking as one of the countries with the lowest population density in the world.



    You cover the Greater Helsinki area, you cover 25% of Finland's population. You cover Copenhagen metropolitan area, you cover 1/3 of Denmark's population. Samething for the other neighbouring Scandinavian countries.



    As a Canadian, if you cover Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, you cover 1/3 of Canada's population.
  • Reply 83 of 210
    ATT has always in all its iterations taken advantage of their customers unless brought to heel by government intervention.



    Apple might have the strength to keep them more honest but as most posters have said, Verizon works just fine so why can't ATT.



    I am a Apple fan, have always had an Apple computer since the Apple I and would buy a family iPhone plan the day Apple cans ATT or offers an alternative. ATT, Archer Daniels Midland, Chevron and all the rest of the cons can waste their money on feel good ads, the equivalent of the phone messages we all hear, " your call is important to us" but a wise consumer will not become a lemming.
  • Reply 84 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mpantone View Post


    Totally unconvincing spin doctoring.



    Hey, AT&T, 29 international cellular carriers were able to handle MMS the day the iPhone OS firmware was released in June. What gives?



    These guys are desperate.



    Agree with you there.
  • Reply 85 of 210
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    All the other carriers are also charging anywhere from 2x to 4x as much for a single MMS as they charge for a single SMS.
  • Reply 86 of 210
    djdjdjdj Posts: 74member
    Their spin might be believable if it weren't for the fact that AT&T sucked long before the iPhone came around. Their digital network has always been half baked.



    Maybe if they hadn't tried to deploy a 1900 Mhz network on 800 MHz towers they could have had reliable coverage. But 1900 MHz has a shorter range, so of course it is going to be subpar. Moving some of their network back into 850 MHz will help, but as far as I'm concerned it's too little too late, and it won't help most customers, as the new deployment is only in select cities. Everybody else is stuck on the duct-tape-and-bailing wire network that is AT&T.



    One of the greatest problems that AT&T customers currently have (especially iPhone users) is dropped calls. That should be an extremely rare occurrence on a properly designed network no matter how busy it is. We hear excuses that network congestion causes the dropped calls, but if that's true, it's about the worst technical decision ever made. They're essentially trying to tell us that somebody with a stronger signal trying to make a call is more important than you and the call you're already on. Calls in progress need to take priority, and if the network is designed differently they deserve the negative attention they are getting. If someone can't start a call they can almost always find another way. Dropped calls, on the other hand, can't always be reconnected (imagine placing a tech support call, waiting for a half hour to be connected to someone, only to be disconnected before resolving your issue. Have fun reconnecting that one.) Every time I talk to an AT&T customer I can guarantee with nearly 100% certainty that within 10 minutes (or less) the call is going to be dropped. Pathetic. This doesn't happen this badly with ANY other network.



    Point is, AT&T is not a good wireless carrier, and they never have been. I was dumbfounded when Apple announced they were signing an exclusive contract for the iPhone in the US. ANY of the other wireless carriers in the US would have been a better choice. Verizon has the coverage, T-Mobile is the right technology (GSM) with properly spaced and configured towers in the areas they cover, and Sprint has tons of excess capacity. AT&T... really?
  • Reply 87 of 210
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djdj View Post


    Their spin might be believable if it weren't for the fact that AT&T sucked long before the iPhone came around. Their digital network has always been half baked.



    ANY of the other wireless carriers in the US would have been a better choice. Verizon has the coverage, T-Mobile is the right technology (GSM) with properly spaced and configured towers in the areas they cover, and Sprint has tons of excess capacity. AT&T... really?



    I think it's your bias that GSM is the "right" technology that leads you to your conclusion.



    Somehow, CDMA is the "wrong" technology that "lost" the war against GSM --- but Qualcomm becomes the largest mobile technology in the whole world. Somehow, CDMA is a low-volume high cost technology that lost to the high volume low cost GSM --- yet Verizon is much more profitable than the rest of the telecom industry. Somehow, "freedom loving GSM" carriers have the lowest consumer satisfaction ratings and Verizon the controlling freak CDMA carrier has the highest consumer satisfaction rating.
  • Reply 88 of 210
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by keeneye4obvious View Post


    Oh please. I had AT&T when it was Cingular and had tons of dropped calls in the NYC, Northern NJ area. I switched to Verizon and the service was flawless. Never dropped a call. Being an Apple user, I have wanted the iPhone since it was introduced but have waited hoping there would be a Verizon version. With the introduction of the 3GS and no Verizon version, I made the switch being assured the network is much better. I have so many dropped calls and times I can't even get a signal it is ridiculous. I couldn't even get a signal on I-78 in a metro area. As soon as there is a Verizon version, I will gladly pay the early termination fee and be done with AT&T forever.



    Sounds like we're twins... been down the same roads as you, literally & figuratively!



    My story when something like this tho...



    Had Verizon 1st - hated their complete lack of OS X support when it came to software they developed on top of that I hated their stone-age view of features... Have they EVER gotten around to recognizing Bluetooth? I guess with all the pressure to force hands free usage I'm gonna guess they finally (kicking and screaming) deemed the technology as something they'd consider supporting...



    Tho I'm confidant they're NOT taking full advantage of BT.



    So Verizon had no support for the Mac and was only adopting stone-age hardware... (to be fair -- this was YEARS ago).



    I decided I'd take my chances with a more forward thinking provider... AT&T didn't have a tower in my town and neither did Cingular but I rolled the dice and gave Cingular a shot. Well the hardware was better but I suffered when it came to signal strength...



    After the merger I'm now with AT&T and the quality is a bit better but still not stupendous and like you said... they tend to drop calls and the drop of a dime. So... I'm quietly waiting and hoping that somehow someday I'll have a REAL carrier that I can happily switch over to....



    Not holding my breath mind you!



    Dave
  • Reply 89 of 210
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    Have they EVER gotten around to recognizing Bluetooth? I guess with all the pressure to force hands free usage I'm gonna guess they finally (kicking and screaming) deemed the technology as something they'd consider supporting...



    Much like how Apple was kicking and screaming with bluetooth.
  • Reply 90 of 210
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,948member
    I've read a lot of posts and have the following response:



    1. There is no evidence that Verizon would have the same problems AT&T has had. In fact, it's unlikely. Why? Because it's not just the iPhone. It's the voice service quality. AT&T sucked before the iPhone and it sucks now.



    2. Seth the Blogger Guy? WTF? Why can't AT&T just post a video by a non-douche?



    3. I've had my phone for about a year. I assume that since they're spending $18b this year, then they probably spent at least $10b from 8/08 to 8/09. $10b and I see no appreciable difference in network quality. None. Zero. Good job.



    4. DEAR AT&T: Could you please fucking explain how enabling MMS on ONE model of phone is going to strain your network that much? You mean you'd rather see us e-mail those photos?



    5. DEAR AT&T: Another thing...could you please stop advertising that your network is "The World's Fastest 3G Network" when it clearly SUCKS BALLS? Thank you.



    6. Does anyone else find it absurd that we are even having this conversation about MMS? Really. This is what we're talking about...picture fucking messaging or the lack thereof? I could send picture messages on my LG piece of shit flip phone in the year 2003. I understand, but it's like speculating when my Mac is going to be able to read DVDs. "Well see, sir, there are these technical difficulties because DVDs carry vast amounts of data compared to CDs and while we realize others can do it we want your experience to be great right away so we're not going to give you the experience at all."



    7. Seth is a douche.



    8. Why does Seth the Douche Guy's explanation have to look like a 1950's medicine commercial and be so goddamned patronizing. "You see, we use this magic things called radio waves that work together with happy sunshine rays to bring your internet to you...." My Lord.



    9. Have I mentioned I hate Seth?
  • Reply 91 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    It doesn't take a lot to cover Finland's population, despite its legendary ranking as one of the countries with the lowest population density in the world.



    You cover the Greater Helsinki area, you cover 25% of Finland's population. You cover Copenhagen metropolitan area, you cover 1/3 of Denmark's population. Samething for the other neighbouring Scandinavian countries.



    As a Canadian, if you cover Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, you cover 1/3 of Canada's population.



    You are exactly right. More apt comparisons would be Russia, Brazil, India, or China, given their land areas.



    I don't know about Russia or Brazil, but India and China, despite being much poorer, seem to have achieved very good coverage across their impressive land masses. However, it's also possibly the case that they were able to leapfrog legacy infrastructures and technologies to be able to do so.
  • Reply 92 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    You are exactly right. More apt comparisons would be Russia, Brazil, India, or China, given their land areas.



    I don't know about Russia or Brazil, but India and China, despite being much poorer, seem to have achieved very good coverage across their impressive land masses. However, it's also possibly the case that they were able to leapfrog legacy infrastructures and technologies to be able to do so.



    My original post was in regards to scaling and proportionality. Finland would not need as many BTS/BSC or OSS/BBS for its networks as AT&T would based on proportions if its population. WIth this in mind they are still able to meet a cell phone penetration of 99%, offer data services, MMS, etc.. while AT&T is struggling.



    BTW: Most Finns consider themselves Nordics, as opposed to Scandinavians.
  • Reply 93 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by randythot View Post


    ...All my friends that came from Korea that brought their cell phones here showed me that the US government and carriers didn't invest in innovation. Their main goal was stable cash-cow cash flows. Think Ma Bell.



    Yup, most businesses are that. Innovation? Vision? Exceptional customer care? Nope... It's all about the most cash flow at minimum customer-focused effort. I say minimum customer-focused because sure, these companies invest tons in accounting and legal ~ all to keep that cash flow ticking along.



    Welcome to the world of "business as usual". Luckily in the US innovative companies and venture capital still exist, outside the realm of blue-chip juggernauts.
  • Reply 94 of 210
    I just saw the screen capture in the AppleInsider article and I didn't even feel like watching the video. I thought he looked so un-PR-friendly because he was a top brass guy from AT&T. But a spokesperson? Sorry, AT&T didn't even bother to hire an actor or even a staff less un-PR-friendly. They could have even injected some humour in it by hiring an actor that looks like "PC guy" from the Mac ads. Or at least a moderately attractive woman that also sounds intelligent. I mean, it's still a marketing/ PR message.



    I think AT&T automatically equates social media = low budget, less thinking required, w00t!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    I've read a lot of posts and have the following response:



    1. There is no evidence that Verizon would have the same problems AT&T has had. In fact, it's unlikely. Why? Because it's not just the iPhone. It's the voice service quality. AT&T sucked before the iPhone and it sucks now.



    2. Seth the Blogger Guy? WTF? Why can't AT&T just post a video by a non-douche?



    3. I've had my phone for about a year. I assume that since they're spending $18b this year, then they probably spent at least $10b from 8/08 to 8/09. $10b and I see no appreciable difference in network quality. None. Zero. Good job.



    4. DEAR AT&T: Could you please fucking explain how enabling MMS on ONE model of phone is going to strain your network that much? You mean you'd rather see us e-mail those photos?



    5. DEAR AT&T: Another thing...could you please stop advertising that your network is "The World's Fastest 3G Network" when it clearly SUCKS BALLS? Thank you.



    6. Does anyone else find it absurd that we are even having this conversation about MMS? Really. This is what we're talking about...picture fucking messaging or the lack thereof? I could send picture messages on my LG piece of shit flip phone in the year 2003. I understand, but it's like speculating when my Mac is going to be able to read DVDs. "Well see, sir, there are these technical difficulties because DVDs carry vast amounts of data compared to CDs and while we realize others can do it we want your experience to be great right away so we're not going to give you the experience at all."



    7. Seth is a douche.



    8. Why does Seth the Douche Guy's explanation have to look like a 1950's medicine commercial and be so goddamned patronizing. "You see, we use this magic things called radio waves that work together with happy sunshine rays to bring your internet to you...." My Lord.



    9. Have I mentioned I hate Seth?



  • Reply 95 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    All the other carriers are also charging anywhere from 2x to 4x as much for a single MMS as they charge for a single SMS.



    That's actually how these other carriers around the world "manage" MMS usage so it doesn't saturate the network, IMHO. By pricing it quite a bit higher... It's a "nice" feature but I don't know how many people favour it strongly over SMS.
  • Reply 96 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Synotic View Post


    So when a small portion of one carrier can account for nearly 2/3 of all mobile internet traffic, I think that the logistics of deploying something like MMS for the iPhone can be a little more involved. I don't see 3 months from announcement to launch as being too long...



    You have an interesting point but [mobile Internet traffic != MMS] in many ways. In the sense that MMS implementation in other mobile OS and devices extends far beyond smartphones.



    Therefore, the increase in strain on the ATT network due to MMS cannot be as much as the increase due to mobile Internet usage.



    In the sense that so many other carriers, phones, etc. all have MMS. Would the iPhone increase MMS usage because it is the iPhone? Possibly. Is the MMS in iPhone far superior to other phones, smart or otherwise? Highly unlikely.
  • Reply 97 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    8. Why does Seth the Douche Guy's explanation have to look like a 1950's medicine commercial and be so goddamned patronizing. "You see, we use this magic things called radio waves that work together with happy sunshine rays to bring your internet to you...." My Lord.



    Ha Ha... Global Warming... Or, NONE LIKE IT HOT!

    ...

    Ice cubes

    ...

    "Just like Daddy puts in his drink in the morning.

    Then he gets mad"

    ...



  • Reply 98 of 210
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    My original post was in regards to scaling and proportionality. Finland would not need as many BTS/BSC or OSS/BBS for its networks as AT&T would based on proportions if its population. WIth this in mind they are still able to meet a cell phone penetration of 99%, offer data services, MMS, etc.. while AT&T is struggling.



    BTW: Most Finns consider themselves Nordics, as opposed to Scandinavians.



    But the Finns also have to deal with iphone data plans with 100 MB, 250 MB and 1000 MB per month allowance.



    http://www.sonera.fi/Puhelin+ja+liit...plen+iPhone+3G



    http://www.sonera.fi/Puhelin%20ja%20.../iPhone+hinnat
  • Reply 99 of 210
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    That's actually how these other carriers around the world "manage" MMS usage so it doesn't saturate the network, IMHO. By pricing it quite a bit higher... It's a "nice" feature but I don't know how many people favour it strongly over SMS.



    Some of these carriers also "manage" their network by (1) crippling top speed to 384 kbps and (2) give you a tiny 100 MB, 250 MB or 1000 MB allowance.



    They will happily give you the ability to tether your iphone for free --- but they only give you a 100 MB data allowance per month. You will blow that in an hour.
  • Reply 100 of 210
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Yup, most businesses are that. Innovation? Vision? Exceptional customer care? Nope... It's all about the most cash flow at minimum customer-focused effort. I say minimum customer-focused because sure, these companies invest tons in accounting and legal ~ all to keep that cash flow ticking along.



    Welcome to the world of "business as usual". Luckily in the US innovative companies and venture capital still exist, outside the realm of blue-chip juggernauts.



    American companies have the vision that --- nobody will ever care about videocalling. The only 3G killer app that has lived to its billing --- is location based services, which the US is ahead of most countries.



    Nobody cares about being able to buy a can of coca-cola from a vending machine by paying with your cell phone.



    In a world where most of the revenue still come from voice calls, most of the "data ARPU" are still from SMS --- American companies are way way ahead of everybody else on usage.
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