Superdrive should remain BTO, not go standard
I happened upon a rumor suggesting that the Superdrive would become standard on all powermacs.
Well, this is fine for folks who must have all the available flashing lights for their systems, but what about those of us who don't have any need to burn DVDs, who don't even own a video camera?
Thinking of the high-end iMac, it's another reason to keep the Superdrive a BTO option. Why should I have to pay extra for a superdrive if I want the fastest iMac? Not cool, Apple. Same goes for the Powermac lineup. That superdrive should remain BTO, so that prices can go down, not up. Even nice than a superdrive in an iMac would be a high end G4 LCD iMac for $1499, IMO.
If Apple does offer a low end tower with standard superdrive, then I would wonder why they didn't cut the price of the low end tower and offer it without the superdrive?
I see a pattern here, with Steve Jobs thinking that everyone on planet earth want's the same things that he does. He thinks the superdrive is cool, thus everyone will want one...thus, offer it standard, and people will be happy.
Most people do not need a superdrive, and no matter how great a value it is, they won't care. CD burners were a hit, not because they allowed people to burn CDs of their own music, but of other people's music. Most customers, when they find out that the superdrive cannot burn a DVD movie, they just tune out. WTF good is a DVD burner that cannot dupe DVDs? I would have to agree with these people. And I think Apple are setting themselves up for a fall again by pushing this superdrive so heavily. Until I can use a DVD burner to copy the latest DVD movie that I rented, DVD burners will not be a "hit".
I'm not saying to do away with the burner entirely, no way. DVD burning is part of Apple's charm, and it satisfies an entire market that Apple is poised to dominate: video editing. All I'm saying is that Apple needs to understand that interest in the superdrive is not widespread, and if they push it too hard, they will find sales of superdrive equipped macs lagging because of price.
Well, this is fine for folks who must have all the available flashing lights for their systems, but what about those of us who don't have any need to burn DVDs, who don't even own a video camera?
Thinking of the high-end iMac, it's another reason to keep the Superdrive a BTO option. Why should I have to pay extra for a superdrive if I want the fastest iMac? Not cool, Apple. Same goes for the Powermac lineup. That superdrive should remain BTO, so that prices can go down, not up. Even nice than a superdrive in an iMac would be a high end G4 LCD iMac for $1499, IMO.
If Apple does offer a low end tower with standard superdrive, then I would wonder why they didn't cut the price of the low end tower and offer it without the superdrive?
I see a pattern here, with Steve Jobs thinking that everyone on planet earth want's the same things that he does. He thinks the superdrive is cool, thus everyone will want one...thus, offer it standard, and people will be happy.
Most people do not need a superdrive, and no matter how great a value it is, they won't care. CD burners were a hit, not because they allowed people to burn CDs of their own music, but of other people's music. Most customers, when they find out that the superdrive cannot burn a DVD movie, they just tune out. WTF good is a DVD burner that cannot dupe DVDs? I would have to agree with these people. And I think Apple are setting themselves up for a fall again by pushing this superdrive so heavily. Until I can use a DVD burner to copy the latest DVD movie that I rented, DVD burners will not be a "hit".
I'm not saying to do away with the burner entirely, no way. DVD burning is part of Apple's charm, and it satisfies an entire market that Apple is poised to dominate: video editing. All I'm saying is that Apple needs to understand that interest in the superdrive is not widespread, and if they push it too hard, they will find sales of superdrive equipped macs lagging because of price.
Comments
But don't put too much faith in those rumours. I don't think Apple will make the Superdrive standard until they come down in price by a few hundred dollars.
[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: Kevin Hayes ]</p>
Usually I agree with a lot of what you have to say, BTO Superdrive on PM's - definately. But Apple does HAVE TO offer Superdrive in their lineup of iMacs. I know, it sucks that the 800 unit is only available with Superdrive, but to place it as a BTO option would dilute the message they are trying to push with the top-end iMac.
You will find that you can burn Movie DVD's, although yes, in most cases you lose the menu functions. Just don't forget one thing...
IT IS ILLEGAL TO COPY MOVIES,
especially when they are not your own. You know this, I know this, so does everyone else. Geez its not like DVD Movies are expensive or anything, compare their prices to the friggin software we buy.
/steeps off high-horse
No offence meant by the above, just pointing out a few things all of us know and take for granted.
Cheers
<strong>
Until I can use a DVD burner to copy the latest DVD movie that I rented, DVD burners will not be a "hit".
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well get ready to wait a long time because the movie industry will never allow that to happen. They saw what happend with MP3s and will make sure DVDs are never copied. With that said I agree they should allow you to get a DVD burn or combo drive instead.
I also agree with JD regarding keeping the superdrive as a bto across the PM line, but I also have nothing against keeping it standard in the top of the line model.
I totally agree. Perhaps I should have stated more clearly, I think that the superdrive is a great idea, a great feature for the iMac. I just don't like that Apple is forcing anyone who wants the fastest iMac to buy the superdrive as well. I would rather buy the fastest iMac with a CDRW drive for $1500 or so. The solution with iMacs wouldn't be BTO, it would be to have two high end models, one with CDRW or combo, and the other with the superdrive. That would make everyone happy, and Apple wouldn't be forcing anyone to buy anything they don't want.
[quote]You will find that you can burn Movie DVD's, although yes, in most cases you lose the menu functions. Just don't forget one thing...
IT IS ILLEGAL TO COPY MOVIES,
especially when they are not your own. You know this, I know this, so does everyone else. Geez its not like DVD Movies are expensive or anything, compare their prices to the friggin software we buy.
<hr></blockquote>
Well yes, of course duping DVD movies is illegal. So is copying retail CDs.
Why do you think CD burners are so popular? Is it because people are burning data and audio files that they created on their own? Yeah, right. CD burners are popular because people dupe CDs. Just like when tape recorders came out, everyone loved them because they could copy records or other tapes for their friends. Let's be honest here, CD Burners are used for illegal purposes more often than they are for legal purposes.
My point is that until DVD burners can be used for illegal purposes, they will not be the hit that CD burners were and still are. Apple is foolish if they think otherwise.
<strong>The superdrive should be standard on all Powermacs but remain an option to downgrade.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I totally agree. If you don't want it, take it off. It'd even be nice if all the iMacs had that option, too. It might take a while for that, though.
What about the Powerbook? I say make it ONLY a BTO option...at least for now.
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
I don't need that so apple should offer a powermac without it all
giev me a break. apple isn't in business to appease everyone. superdrive is core to apple's strategy. it should be standard on every mac at a pricepoint of 1699 and higher.
maybe offer to replace it as BTO but not to add it.
I loved your work on that other thread regarding the argument that mac's suck... never seen someone have a new a$$hole torn so wide
I don't need that so apple should offer a powermac without it all
giev me a break. apple isn't in business to appease everyone. superdrive is core to apple's strategy. it should be standard on every mac at a pricepoint of 1699 and higher.
<hr></blockquote>
Apple should be in business to appease as many of their potential buyers as possible, and I think if Apple makes the superdrive a core of their strategy, it will be a grave mistake.
Macs are already priced too high, and making the superdrive standard across the line would only drive prices up higher. Not cool. I think Apple would do best to offer the superdrive on a few models, so anyone who needs the superdrive can get it.
Remember when Apple pushed DVD-rom drives on everyone? It was a disaster, because more people were interested in CD burners.
As for your argument about not including RAM, HD, CPU, etc, that's a hell of a slippery slope you've created there! It's a very small minority of consumers who would want to buy a stripped down tower and then "build" it to their own specs. But many, I would even say the majority, of Mac buyers neither want nor need a superdrive. Making the superdrive standard is like offering every iMac with Final Cut Pro, and of course jacking up the prices because of it. FCP is a awesome app, and it caters to an important market for Apple, but if you're not part of that market, you don't need it. Same with the superdrive. Apple needs to be careful not to mix up their targeted markets by assuming that what's good for professional video editors is good for everyone.
Think about it. It´s called "Economics" and "Marketing".
For those of us who don't need it, however, it ought to be deletable in the BTO options.
no, for a prebuilt model more people want a superdrive than don't. Apple can't possibly fit everyone's desires.
[quote]
Macs are already priced too high, and making the superdrive standard across the line would only drive prices up higher. Not cool. I think Apple would do best to offer the superdrive on a few models, so anyone who needs the superdrive can get it. <hr></blockquote>
higher? no
the same? definitely
lower? possibly.
there is no basis for your claim that prices would increase.
[quote]
Remember when Apple pushed DVD-rom drives on everyone? It was a disaster, because more people were interested in CD burners. <hr></blockquote>
disaster? no
poor decision? maybe
now they are pushing both and more and you have a problem with it.
[quote]But many, I would even say the majority, of Mac buyers neither want nor need a superdrive. Making the superdrive standard is like offering every iMac with Final Cut Pro, and of course jacking up the prices because of it. FCP is a awesome app, and it caters to an important market for Apple, but if you're not part of that market, you don't need it. Same with the superdrive. Apple needs to be careful not to mix up their targeted markets by assuming that what's good for professional video editors is good for everyone. <hr></blockquote>
perhaps you never heard of iDVD. superdrive is not only for pros my friend.
and I think one of the main incentives of upgrading your mac today is to get the superdrive. I know that's what I am dieing for and that's what my friends are dieing to get. That's why the 1799 iMac is selling so amazingly well. people want the superdrive.
[quote]The concept of "build to order" means to take a base model and add your preferred options from those available to better suit your needs.
Think about it. It´s called "Economics" and "Marketing". <hr></blockquote>
1.) talking prebuilts here
2.) I said the option to "downgrade" the superdrive should be BTO
<strong>The concept of "build to order" means to take a base model and add your preferred options from those available to better suit your needs.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, it also means that you can downgrade the specs too.
Let's say Apple soon releases new PM models, with whatever goodies such as faster CPU chips, better graphics, (hopefully) faster bus, etc... and still keep the entry level price at $1699. It would be really cool if they could also throw in a superdrive for that price, but it won't happen unless they want to kill the high end ($1799) iMac in the process.
Let's say you go to CompUSA and have a tower at $1699 w/SD and an iMac at $1799 w/SD. I rest my case.
On the other hand, since Apple has demostrated that anything 733mhz and above is good enough for iDVD, than it would make sense to offer the SuperDrive as a BTO on the cheaper PowerMacs to be introduced soon (for sure 800mhz +).
Let's say Apple soon releases new PM models, with whatever goodies such as faster CPU chips, better graphics, (hopefully) faster bus, etc... and still keep the entry level price at $1699. It would be really cool if they could also throw in a superdrive for that price, but it won't happen unless they want to kill the high end ($1799) iMac in the process.
Let's say you go to CompUSA and have a tower at $1699 w/SD and an iMac at $1799 w/SD. I rest my case.<hr></blockquote>
then add on 500 for a display
I rest my case.
<strong>
Yeah, it also means that you can downgrade the specs too.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But it only works as you say on higher end models. You need to offer a base model at a competitive ($1699 still debatable) price point. You see, there are lots of customers out there that purchase more than one unit so a base model (read cheap) is a must.
If Apple is to make SD standard across the whole PM line, it would mean they had to cut costs by offering the same mediocre current motherboard & bus speed. This on top of the fact that it will severly overlap with the new high end iMac.
SD at home (iMac) is the best thing Apple has done about pushing their OS and iApps onto a broader consumer target. Pro and Prosumer customers still need a non-SD entry level and well priced minitower.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have SD across the line, but it would make the low end tower either too expensive or the 800mhz iMac a DOA option.
<strong>
then add on 500 for a display
I rest my case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are assuming an LCD there; the minitowers are not all-in-one sytems; you can choose the display that better suits your needs and budget, i.e. +/-$180 good CRT for the same resolution as the iMac's LCD.
Apple learned its lesson with the Cube pricing fiasco. There needs to be a well defined difference between the iMac and the entry level PowerMac.
I guess you agree the new low end PM won't have a less than 800mhz rating, right? I also hope you agree Apple needs to offer a cheap tower, or at least maintain the $1699 entry level price. If both iMac and entry PM come with (at least) the same speed, graphics, ram, hd (last 2 non trivial) and SuperDrive, how do you avoid making the tower a heck of a better deal than the iMac? Coolness factor is not worth much to some pockets.
I am not saying that you are wrong, but rather that I am interested in your ideas. As I said before, I don't take things on these boards personal.