The CPU has nothing to do with being a boutique style computer shop or trying to run like one. There are plenty of these shops on line that make Intel-based PCs running Windows. Every PC maker that caters specifically to gamers, especially the ones that put desktop-grade components into a 20lb notebook for portable gaming despite having less than an hour of battery, are boutique PC makers.
Apple still functions as one despite it?s growth. I doubt they can keep it up for too much longer and I expect that even their Mac line will have to diversify more if they plan to keep beating records each quarter.
It has everything to do with it, Apple buyers bought a Mac to snub their noses at MS, I'm sure all those people were highly disappointed when Apple decided to use Intel chips in its computers, but it was hard for Apple to continue to ignore 99% of computer owners especially after someone discovered how to run windows on a Mac, btw thats what led Apple to start using Intel chips and profit from the people wanting to run both OS' on their computers. And these shops that build these computers aren't a MAJOR corporation with stockholders to answer to.
It has everything to do with it, Apple buyers bought a Mac to snub their noses at MS, I'm sure all those people were highly disappointed when Apple decided to use Intel chips in its computers, but it was hard for Apple to continue to ignore 99% of computer owners especially after someone discovered how to run windows on a Mac, btw thats what led Apple to start using Intel chips and profit from the people wanting to run both OS' on their computers. And these shops that build these computers aren't a MAJOR corporation with stockholders to answer to.
Everything you said is completely wrong, but it?s time for my dinner so someone else will have take it from here.
i don't buy it. Apple has gotten a ton of flack about the contract and there are lots of unlocked phones out there. I suspect they will unlock the phone in 2010 and be done with it.
also, I do NOT see them making a CDMA device of any kind. they would be reinventing the wheel. I believe that all devices will stay GSM and it's successors. Which means if Verizon wants the phone or anything else, they have to change games to support the device. otherwise, it's ATT and TMobile (at least here in the US).
Apple has been in talks with Verizon for months now just in case you just woke up from a coma. They also put out ads looking for CDMA engineers which is what launched all the rumors of the iPhone being made for Verizon. And LTE is the 4G network Verizon has decided to go with will also be used by AT&T and T-Mobile
no the $400 is correct. full retail on the phones is $599/699. ATT gives everyone $200 and an extra $200 to qualifying upgrades.
Yeah but full retail isnt what AT&T pays for the phone, it has to make a profit on it somehow if someone decides to buy it outright without a contract. Why do you think all the companies charge a $175 cancellation fee? its to recover the cost of the phone they didnt charge you at the beginning. BTW i'm sure the real price on the phone is much lower than they let on. Apple has been making the phone for 2 yrs now, you mean to tell me that their manufacturing costs have not gone down considerably in that time? They're not like the other makers that make several different models for all the carriers and change them quite often. How many different BBs does RIM make, and have on the shelves? Apple has only really made two, the 2G and the 3G/3GS which is basically the same phone
Japan, Hong Kong and some other markets already have 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks in service now.
Europe and Asia is basically a mixture of 14.4Mbps and 7.2Mbps networks. The United States is 3-5 years behind most industrialized nations.
If AT&T really wants to catch up and prove to the rest of the world that they are leaders in telecommunications, they need to implement 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks NOW. As in tomorrow. Not next week, not next year, not two years from today. NOW.
The thing iSuppi is overlooking is Verizon's massive push to incorporate 4g technology into it's network, which will be HSPA compatible.
Verizon will not have 4G in any great capacity in a year. Not even two. I would be very, very surprised if Verizon gets an iPhone within the next two years. And even then it would have to be able to fall back to CDMA for the majority of the area's that don't have 4G.
You simply don't build out a brand new wireless infrastructure in a year or two
That doesn't change anything re: extending exclusivity. It just means that only *some* Verizon customers could take advantage. There's no reason for Apple to throw away those customers for two years until the coverage is complete.
Yes, your absolutely right. Apple is well known for providing an incomplete user experience and half-a$$ed solutions.
AT&T's whining about investing tens of billions into their network every year is a red herring. They'd have to do that anyway, just to keep up with their peers.
Really? What other device is prompting even 1/5th the traffic the iPhone does?
Why exactly would AT&T or their "peers" have to keep up with without the iPhone? Smartphones existed for years, but it wasn't until the iPhone came along that people actually used them (and thus drove the demanded for far greater bandwidth).
AT&T basically employed the "if you set yourself on fire, you'll win the marathon because you'll run faster" business strategy. It hasn't been an unmitigated disaster, but it's getting uglier by the day.
Your so full of crap - if it was an "unmitigated disaster" Apple wouldn't have had three sellout launches in a row.
The only "unmitigated disaster" is all the techy geeks and internet malcontents feeding off each other in forums like this. The vast majority of iPhone users couldn't care less about the "unmitigated disaster"
Japan, Hong Kong and some other markets already have 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks in service now.
Europe and Asia is basically a mixture of 14.4Mbps and 7.2Mbps networks. The United States is 3-5 years behind most industrialized nations.
If AT&T really wants to catch up and prove to the rest of the world that they are leaders in telecommunications, they need to implement 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks NOW. As in tomorrow. Not next week, not next year, not two years from today. NOW.
Yes, that makes complete sense. Hong Kong has a land mass of 1,104km^2 while the US has a land mass of 9,826,675km^2. For the 2005 estimates according to Wikipedia, the population density of the US is 31 people per km^2 while Hong Kong is 6,326 per km^2. Now there are plenty of other things to factor in, but you can’t just call out a country and say that another country should be able to meet of beat them because of some preconceived notion you have.
PS: Can you find me a phone that is sold in Hong Kong that can handle 28.8Mbps? I can’t. Besides not knowing that HSDPA can handle more than 14.4Mbps by design, with HSPA+ providing speeds of up to 42.Mbps, I don’t know of any phone’s radio HW that has been made to handle that much data nor seen a phone that has the internal CPU and RAM to process that much data from these radios at this time. Having the towers handle that much data per node is a very different thing altogether as the size and power constrictions are not the same as in handheld, battery powered devices.
I think what happen is AT&T modeled data usage base on pass experience which generally is not bad as a start and made assuming how the iPhone would increase this usage and they set a flat rate price since they have learned in the pass if you have per usage people get that first huge bill the first time and say no more and cut back usage and AT&T ends up making a lot less.
What happen in reality is the iphone probably caused a 10 fold if not more in the data usage since AT&T was not aware of all the possibilities that app programmers would come up with that would use data and it brought their network to its knees and now they are also realizing the flat rate price was too low that is why 3G network access is $30 a month verse $20.
Now AT&T is probably trying to figure out how to recoup what they feel they gave away, but the cat is already out of the bag and they can not go backwards, this is also why they probably held up MMS and Tethering. Today AT&T make more money on the mobile Broadband access cards then they do on data plans for cell phones, and they do not want to give that up too.
Bingo. It never ceases to amaze me just how little people give the iPhone credit for dramatically shifting the mobile marketplace. As someone who had various smartphones for a good five years prior to getting an iPhone, I can see the DRAMATIC change in usage for me between every other phone and now the iphone.
It's simply staggering and shouldn't be discounted as glibly as is often done here.
no the $400 is correct. full retail on the phones is $599/699. ATT gives everyone $200 and an extra $200 to qualifying upgrades.
isupply said the build cost is $179. figure 50% gross margins and that's around $270 for the 32GB model. we buy it for $299 and AT&T and Apple will sell you a replacement for $199 if you break it.
the full retail cost is to take advantage of the idiots who think t-mobile is better than AT&T
AT&T just needs to move a lot quicker; i.e. hire more people to upgrade their equipment and add more towers. It's not rocket science.
What an ignorant statement - it's not trivial, either! There are spectrum, licensing and issues of acquiring tower space - not even mentioning spectrum management, tuning and all the other complexities of dealing with wirless technology.
Actually, it's as bad or worse then rocket science. There is nothing trivial about radios.
It will be very interesting to see how Verizon deals with the 4G technology requiring more towers spaced closer together. Two years for significant 4G penetration might be overly optimistic...
Edit: and even if Verizon waived a magic wand and deployed 4G tomorrow, where are the low power, mature radio chipsets for Apple to use? 3G was pretty well deployed when the first iPhone shipped but Apple skipped 3G until the chipsets matured and lower power versions were available. Simply throwing up more towers and transmitters isn't enough - it's a package deal.
isupply said the build cost is $179. figure 50% gross margins and that's around $270 for the 32GB model. we buy it for $299 and AT&T and Apple will sell you a replacement for $199 if you break it.
the full retail cost is to take advantage of the idiots who think t-mobile is better than AT&T
The data iSuppli lists should not be construed as the cost of the device to R&D or market or license or package or ship or store or sell or even the money Apple has to put aside for inevitable lawsuits and repairs. iSuppli doesn?t factor any of these other things in and that very clearly state that.
I can only imagine the laughs that the Apple team had after meetings with AT&T in the early days of contract negotiations. You can just see the Apple guys, pitching the exclusive contract and high revenue sharing numbers with powerpoint's about how revolutionary the phone would be and how many people would switch to AT&T to get it... and the AT&T guys doing their financial analysis based on the way people used data on pre-iPhone devices.
Why are people so eager to attribute malice or deceptive behavior to Apple? Apple has freely admitted the iPhone far exceeded their expectations for data usage.
Niether Apple or AT&T anticipated just how dramatically the iPhone would impact data networks. There is no conspiricy
because after all it is a phone to make calls with, is it not?
Meh - I'm on the basic 450 anytime minutes a month plan and with roll over I have over 1,000 minutes - essentially unlimited. Most of my friends and family are on AT&T and I do the bulk of my calling at night or on weekends. I use my iPhone FAR more for data and apps then as a phone.
Japan, Hong Kong and some other markets already have 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks in service now.
Europe and Asia is basically a mixture of 14.4Mbps and 7.2Mbps networks. The United States is 3-5 years behind most industrialized nations.
If AT&T really wants to catch up and prove to the rest of the world that they are leaders in telecommunications, they need to implement 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks NOW. As in tomorrow. Not next week, not next year, not two years from today. NOW.
You cannot compare the rest of the world with us. Hong Kong is only a city not the whole entire country of China. I'm sure AT&T can setup a HSDPA network in NYC really quickly, but what about the rest of the country?
Comments
The CPU has nothing to do with being a boutique style computer shop or trying to run like one. There are plenty of these shops on line that make Intel-based PCs running Windows. Every PC maker that caters specifically to gamers, especially the ones that put desktop-grade components into a 20lb notebook for portable gaming despite having less than an hour of battery, are boutique PC makers.
Apple still functions as one despite it?s growth. I doubt they can keep it up for too much longer and I expect that even their Mac line will have to diversify more if they plan to keep beating records each quarter.
It has everything to do with it, Apple buyers bought a Mac to snub their noses at MS, I'm sure all those people were highly disappointed when Apple decided to use Intel chips in its computers, but it was hard for Apple to continue to ignore 99% of computer owners especially after someone discovered how to run windows on a Mac, btw thats what led Apple to start using Intel chips and profit from the people wanting to run both OS' on their computers. And these shops that build these computers aren't a MAJOR corporation with stockholders to answer to.
It has everything to do with it, Apple buyers bought a Mac to snub their noses at MS, I'm sure all those people were highly disappointed when Apple decided to use Intel chips in its computers, but it was hard for Apple to continue to ignore 99% of computer owners especially after someone discovered how to run windows on a Mac, btw thats what led Apple to start using Intel chips and profit from the people wanting to run both OS' on their computers. And these shops that build these computers aren't a MAJOR corporation with stockholders to answer to.
Everything you said is completely wrong, but it?s time for my dinner so someone else will have take it from here.
But remember you paid $199 for the iPhone so its only dishing out an additional $200,
no the $400 is correct. full retail on the phones is $599/699. ATT gives everyone $200 and an extra $200 to qualifying upgrades.
i don't buy it. Apple has gotten a ton of flack about the contract and there are lots of unlocked phones out there. I suspect they will unlock the phone in 2010 and be done with it.
also, I do NOT see them making a CDMA device of any kind. they would be reinventing the wheel. I believe that all devices will stay GSM and it's successors. Which means if Verizon wants the phone or anything else, they have to change games to support the device. otherwise, it's ATT and TMobile (at least here in the US).
Apple has been in talks with Verizon for months now just in case you just woke up from a coma. They also put out ads looking for CDMA engineers which is what launched all the rumors of the iPhone being made for Verizon. And LTE is the 4G network Verizon has decided to go with will also be used by AT&T and T-Mobile
no the $400 is correct. full retail on the phones is $599/699. ATT gives everyone $200 and an extra $200 to qualifying upgrades.
Yeah but full retail isnt what AT&T pays for the phone, it has to make a profit on it somehow if someone decides to buy it outright without a contract. Why do you think all the companies charge a $175 cancellation fee? its to recover the cost of the phone they didnt charge you at the beginning. BTW i'm sure the real price on the phone is much lower than they let on. Apple has been making the phone for 2 yrs now, you mean to tell me that their manufacturing costs have not gone down considerably in that time? They're not like the other makers that make several different models for all the carriers and change them quite often. How many different BBs does RIM make, and have on the shelves? Apple has only really made two, the 2G and the 3G/3GS which is basically the same phone
Japan, Hong Kong and some other markets already have 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks in service now.
Europe and Asia is basically a mixture of 14.4Mbps and 7.2Mbps networks. The United States is 3-5 years behind most industrialized nations.
If AT&T really wants to catch up and prove to the rest of the world that they are leaders in telecommunications, they need to implement 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks NOW. As in tomorrow. Not next week, not next year, not two years from today. NOW.
The thing iSuppi is overlooking is Verizon's massive push to incorporate 4g technology into it's network, which will be HSPA compatible.
Verizon will not have 4G in any great capacity in a year. Not even two. I would be very, very surprised if Verizon gets an iPhone within the next two years. And even then it would have to be able to fall back to CDMA for the majority of the area's that don't have 4G.
You simply don't build out a brand new wireless infrastructure in a year or two
That doesn't change anything re: extending exclusivity. It just means that only *some* Verizon customers could take advantage. There's no reason for Apple to throw away those customers for two years until the coverage is complete.
Yes, your absolutely right. Apple is well known for providing an incomplete user experience and half-a$$ed solutions.
You verizon fanbois are something else....
AT&T's whining about investing tens of billions into their network every year is a red herring. They'd have to do that anyway, just to keep up with their peers.
Really? What other device is prompting even 1/5th the traffic the iPhone does?
Why exactly would AT&T or their "peers" have to keep up with without the iPhone? Smartphones existed for years, but it wasn't until the iPhone came along that people actually used them (and thus drove the demanded for far greater bandwidth).
AT&T basically employed the "if you set yourself on fire, you'll win the marathon because you'll run faster" business strategy. It hasn't been an unmitigated disaster, but it's getting uglier by the day.
Your so full of crap - if it was an "unmitigated disaster" Apple wouldn't have had three sellout launches in a row.
The only "unmitigated disaster" is all the techy geeks and internet malcontents feeding off each other in forums like this. The vast majority of iPhone users couldn't care less about the "unmitigated disaster"
Apple has a choice....they are choosing higher subsidies versus customer satisfaction.
The iPhone's customer satisfaction (even with the "unmitigated disaster" of AT&T) is the highest of the entire industry.
By a wide margin.
Your statement rings hollow.
AT&T vs. Verizon is the battle of the midgets.
Japan, Hong Kong and some other markets already have 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks in service now.
Europe and Asia is basically a mixture of 14.4Mbps and 7.2Mbps networks. The United States is 3-5 years behind most industrialized nations.
If AT&T really wants to catch up and prove to the rest of the world that they are leaders in telecommunications, they need to implement 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks NOW. As in tomorrow. Not next week, not next year, not two years from today. NOW.
Yes, that makes complete sense.
PS: Can you find me a phone that is sold in Hong Kong that can handle 28.8Mbps? I can’t. Besides not knowing that HSDPA can handle more than 14.4Mbps by design, with HSPA+ providing speeds of up to 42.Mbps, I don’t know of any phone’s radio HW that has been made to handle that much data nor seen a phone that has the internal CPU and RAM to process that much data from these radios at this time. Having the towers handle that much data per node is a very different thing altogether as the size and power constrictions are not the same as in handheld, battery powered devices.
I think what happen is AT&T modeled data usage base on pass experience which generally is not bad as a start and made assuming how the iPhone would increase this usage and they set a flat rate price since they have learned in the pass if you have per usage people get that first huge bill the first time and say no more and cut back usage and AT&T ends up making a lot less.
What happen in reality is the iphone probably caused a 10 fold if not more in the data usage since AT&T was not aware of all the possibilities that app programmers would come up with that would use data and it brought their network to its knees and now they are also realizing the flat rate price was too low that is why 3G network access is $30 a month verse $20.
Now AT&T is probably trying to figure out how to recoup what they feel they gave away, but the cat is already out of the bag and they can not go backwards, this is also why they probably held up MMS and Tethering. Today AT&T make more money on the mobile Broadband access cards then they do on data plans for cell phones, and they do not want to give that up too.
Bingo. It never ceases to amaze me just how little people give the iPhone credit for dramatically shifting the mobile marketplace. As someone who had various smartphones for a good five years prior to getting an iPhone, I can see the DRAMATIC change in usage for me between every other phone and now the iphone.
It's simply staggering and shouldn't be discounted as glibly as is often done here.
no the $400 is correct. full retail on the phones is $599/699. ATT gives everyone $200 and an extra $200 to qualifying upgrades.
isupply said the build cost is $179. figure 50% gross margins and that's around $270 for the 32GB model. we buy it for $299 and AT&T and Apple will sell you a replacement for $199 if you break it.
the full retail cost is to take advantage of the idiots who think t-mobile is better than AT&T
AT&T just needs to move a lot quicker; i.e. hire more people to upgrade their equipment and add more towers. It's not rocket science.
What an ignorant statement - it's not trivial, either! There are spectrum, licensing and issues of acquiring tower space - not even mentioning spectrum management, tuning and all the other complexities of dealing with wirless technology.
Actually, it's as bad or worse then rocket science. There is nothing trivial about radios.
It will be very interesting to see how Verizon deals with the 4G technology requiring more towers spaced closer together. Two years for significant 4G penetration might be overly optimistic...
Edit: and even if Verizon waived a magic wand and deployed 4G tomorrow, where are the low power, mature radio chipsets for Apple to use? 3G was pretty well deployed when the first iPhone shipped but Apple skipped 3G until the chipsets matured and lower power versions were available. Simply throwing up more towers and transmitters isn't enough - it's a package deal.
isupply said the build cost is $179. figure 50% gross margins and that's around $270 for the 32GB model. we buy it for $299 and AT&T and Apple will sell you a replacement for $199 if you break it.
the full retail cost is to take advantage of the idiots who think t-mobile is better than AT&T
The data iSuppli lists should not be construed as the cost of the device to R&D or market or license or package or ship or store or sell or even the money Apple has to put aside for inevitable lawsuits and repairs. iSuppli doesn?t factor any of these other things in and that very clearly state that.
I can only imagine the laughs that the Apple team had after meetings with AT&T in the early days of contract negotiations. You can just see the Apple guys, pitching the exclusive contract and high revenue sharing numbers with powerpoint's about how revolutionary the phone would be and how many people would switch to AT&T to get it... and the AT&T guys doing their financial analysis based on the way people used data on pre-iPhone devices.
Why are people so eager to attribute malice or deceptive behavior to Apple? Apple has freely admitted the iPhone far exceeded their expectations for data usage.
Niether Apple or AT&T anticipated just how dramatically the iPhone would impact data networks. There is no conspiricy
because after all it is a phone to make calls with, is it not?
Meh - I'm on the basic 450 anytime minutes a month plan and with roll over I have over 1,000 minutes - essentially unlimited. Most of my friends and family are on AT&T and I do the bulk of my calling at night or on weekends. I use my iPhone FAR more for data and apps then as a phone.
. I just think at this point it makes much more business sense to go with other carriers than to stay with AT&T
Apparently Apple doesn't agree - and it doesn't seem to be hurting them that much...
btw thats what led Apple to start using Intel chips and profit from the people wanting to run both OS' on their computers.
No, the inability of IBM/Motorola to provide a decent low power/low heat notebook chip forced Apple to move to Intel.
The ability to run Windows was gravy, but I guarantee you it was not a primary driver for Apple.
AT&T vs. Verizon is the battle of the midgets.
Japan, Hong Kong and some other markets already have 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks in service now.
Europe and Asia is basically a mixture of 14.4Mbps and 7.2Mbps networks. The United States is 3-5 years behind most industrialized nations.
If AT&T really wants to catch up and prove to the rest of the world that they are leaders in telecommunications, they need to implement 28.8Mbps HSDPA networks NOW. As in tomorrow. Not next week, not next year, not two years from today. NOW.
You cannot compare the rest of the world with us. Hong Kong is only a city not the whole entire country of China. I'm sure AT&T can setup a HSDPA network in NYC really quickly, but what about the rest of the country?