Winsupersite: AppleInsider jumps the shark, declares Zune HD 'failed'
Looks like the Apple-centric attack of the Zune by AI has led to the Microsoft-centric Paul Thurrott to respond in kind:
http://community.winsupersite.com/bl...hd-failed.aspx
From the intro:
The bolded part was key to me... because I think that Prince's articles bring out the worst in AI
http://community.winsupersite.com/bl...hd-failed.aspx
From the intro:
Quote:
While I wait for what I just know will be hugely positive reviews of the Zune HD from Walter Mossberg and David Pogue (after all, these guys treat Apple product launches like just-discovered new books of the Bible), I can at least point to some of the crazy silliness coming out of the Apple fan base. AppleInsider--which, by the way, I actually like quite a bit normally since they're not usually this partisan--has written an absolutely insane and uncalled-for anti-Zune HD article. I've gotten a lot of email about it, and while I'd like to just ignore it, I am afraid that people will assume it's all true. What they're presenting are five myths of the Zune HD. Actually, it's four non-myths and one completely made up issue, but whatever. Let's waste just a little bit of time on this stupidity. (And you have to think that if Apple had adopted any of the stuff they're complaining about, AppleInsider would have been tripping all over itself congratulating the company.)
While I wait for what I just know will be hugely positive reviews of the Zune HD from Walter Mossberg and David Pogue (after all, these guys treat Apple product launches like just-discovered new books of the Bible), I can at least point to some of the crazy silliness coming out of the Apple fan base. AppleInsider--which, by the way, I actually like quite a bit normally since they're not usually this partisan--has written an absolutely insane and uncalled-for anti-Zune HD article. I've gotten a lot of email about it, and while I'd like to just ignore it, I am afraid that people will assume it's all true. What they're presenting are five myths of the Zune HD. Actually, it's four non-myths and one completely made up issue, but whatever. Let's waste just a little bit of time on this stupidity. (And you have to think that if Apple had adopted any of the stuff they're complaining about, AppleInsider would have been tripping all over itself congratulating the company.)
The bolded part was key to me... because I think that Prince's articles bring out the worst in AI
Comments
Paul really seems to know what's he's talking about, his claims are always based on facts
All one needs to do is to read Pauls article on the subject to see that I'm correct.... But, nice attempt at a legit comment on your part.
Oh! I almost forgot...
All one needs to do is to read Pauls article on the subject to see that I'm correct.... But, nice attempt at a legit comment on your part.
Oh! I almost forgot...
No, all you need to do is read AI's article, then Paul's, and note he's failed to address most of the points made by the AI article. Thurrot is well known for writing awesome amounts of drivel about Apple products, especially OS X. (And I believe it was him that predicted Apple would quit development of OS X and use Windows instead)
I rarely use these guys, but
In this instance I am with Paul. Arguing against OLED is dumb at best.
I disagree, OLED is seriously over-rated. Yes, it's got better viewing angle than LCD, but the minuses (power consumption and ageing) far outweigh the pluses.
I disagree, OLED is seriously over-rated. Yes, it's got better viewing angle than LCD, but the minuses (power consumption and ageing) far outweigh the pluses.
I'd like to put the same 12 hour video on the iPod touch and the Zune HD to see which dies first. My guess is the iPod would die first. As for viewing angles? It's a portable device. It's not viewing angles I'm after, it's great color and contrast. The Zune HD doesn't just trump the iPod touch or the iPhone is these departments, it is many times better. Ars Technica mention the Zune HD performs bad in sunlight, as if that was unexpected. The iPhone is awful in sunlight, even at maximum brightness.
Honestly, have you ever tried to watch a movie on the iPhone, I cannot. The display is not good enough. A "dark" movie is unwatchable.
I used my first iPhone for a while (a day or two I think) when I got it 2 years ago, and the thing that surprised me (I have said this before) the most was the display was not nearly as good as you'd imagine it would have been. Considering the UI is touch based OLED from here on out is a must. The next iPhone will be OLED and you'll all be eating crow, crow, crow.
I'd like to put the same 12 hour video on the iPod touch and the Zune HD to see which dies first. My guess is the iPod would die first.
You can't compare the power consumption of OLED Vs. LCD using a Zune Vs. iPod Touch test, as the two devices are different in pretty much every department - it wouldn't be a controlled test. Having said that, I have no idea which device (Zune or iPod) would win if you did.
As for viewing angles? It's a portable device. It's not viewing angles I'm after, it's great color and contrast. The Zune HD doesn't just trump the iPod touch or the iPhone is these departments, it is many times better. Ars Technica mention the Zune HD performs bad in sunlight, as if that was unexpected. The iPhone is awful in sunlight, even at maximum brightness.
Honestly, have you ever tried to watch a movie on the iPhone, I cannot. The display is not good enough. A "dark" movie is unwatchable.
Ireland, the mistake you've made here is to assume that the iPhone represents the best LCD has to offer. Just because the iPhone's LCD is no good, that doesn't mean the only better option is OLED. OLED is over-hyped and decent LCD can match it. I'd been reading for years about how amazing OLED is/was, and then I finally saw the 11" Sony OLED TV. Man, was that disappointing; it was nothing to write home about IMHO.
I used my first iPhone for a while (a day or two I think) when I got it 2 years ago, and the thing that surprised me (I have said this before) the most was the display was not nearly as good as you'd imagine it would have been. Considering the UI is touch based OLED from here on out is a must. The next iPhone will be OLED and you'll all be eating crow, crow, crow
What's the point in having a screen with "great colours" and "great contrast" if said qualities only last the first year or whatever? I hope Apple don't use OLED until its shortcomings are fixed (if that ever happens), however, I wouldn't be surprised if they go OLED just because the hype surrounding it means consumers expect it.
D. OLED is over-hyped and decent LCD can match it. I'd been reading for years about how amazing OLED is/was, and then I finally saw the 11" Sony OLED TV. Man, was that disappointing; it was nothing to write home about IMHO.
I agree, but Prince claimed that OLED was worse, quality wise than LED. I've also seen that 11" Sony OLED player and I can't say it's noticeably better nor worse. Hell, I can't really see the difference at all.
I think Prince should have waited for the device to be released and then critiqued it. So far the screen has been praised by almost everyone who've reviewed the device so I suspect his credibility looks shaky to many.
I agree, but Prince claimed that OLED was worse, quality wise than LED. I've also seen that 11" Sony OLED player and I can't say it's noticeably better nor worse. Hell, I can't really see the difference at all.
I think Prince should have waited for the device to be released and then critiqued it. So far the screen has been praised by almost everyone who've reviewed the device so I suspect his credibility looks shaky to many.
Prince provided a critique of OLED tech. in general, not the Zune HD's screen specifically. The point is that OLED does look good when it's new. However, the screen ages quickly, and on top of that the different colours age at different rates so not only does brightness get worse over time, so does colour accuracy.
I'd like to put the same 12 hour video on the iPod touch and the Zune HD to see which dies first. My guess is the iPod would die first.
Depends. If it's Batman? Probably the Zune wins. If it's THX1138? The Zune's toast.
At less extreme ends of light and dark (i.e most movies) I would imagine the power savings during darker scenes would be roughly offset by the power consumption of lighters scenes, so it's probably a wash.
I used my first iPhone for a while (a day or two I think) when I got it 2 years ago, and the thing that surprised me (I have said this before) the most was the display was not nearly as good as you'd imagine it would have been. Considering the UI is touch based OLED from here on out is a must. The next iPhone will be OLED and you'll all be eating crow, crow, crow.
Why? Who's to say Apple wouldn't wait until OLED tech is more stable, or cheaper, or with a better power envelope? Nobody is saying Apple can't or shouldn't use OLED ever, just that the current incarnation isn't quite there yet.
It's the same thing as a tablet-- years ago, when MS was showing around its Origami concept, folks were swearing up and down that if Apple didn't "do something" to respond, they were screwed, since ultra portable computing was clearly the future. Many others said that the concept didn't look ready for primetime, and that the tablets already on the market seemed pretty lackluster.
So if Apple brings out a tablet next year, were the naysayers wrong and obliged to eat crow? Of course not, that was then, this is now. What hardware and software are capable of changes, tech that is impossible to implement with Apple's typical panache becomes available over time. Apple couldn't have made the iPhone in 2000, suggesting that making a phone would be a poor move for Apple at that time is in no way gainsaid by what Apple was able to do 7 years later.
http://www.suntimes.com/technology/i...091609.article
The images that Paul Thurrott submitted are not recognizable to me. I find my iphone screen looks nothing like those images. The blacks certainly aren't all washed out and grey like that.
The Zune browser gets mixed reviews:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10354240-27.html
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/09/16...the-full-tour/
I don't think it looks that bad but the keyboard looks difficult to type on. I wonder if the keyboard lags like the ipod/iphone.
Overall, my impression of the Zune HD is that it's a good competitor to the ipod touch. It has a nice design and color range, price that comes close to the ipod, the interface seems smooth (although I'm not a fan of the navigation) and a couple of features seem really nice. The ability to play 720p video out is a great feature IMO. It means you can drop an HD movie onto the Zune and play it on the device downscaled or plug it into an HDTV and watch it at full rez. I know it's not a feature that will be used much but I like it. Video output from the ipod isn't bad but it's not great quality.
It's odd that Apple wouldn't have this feature as the 3GS hardware supports 720p playback and video recording. Maybe they will unlock it in a software update.
The lack of software isn't that good on the Zune but to be honest, I typically only use the core features on my iphone. The 3rd party software just isn't that good. Tens of thousands of apps in the store but I can't find any good ones because they won't let me find apps by overall rating.
I don't think the Zune HD will persuade a whole lot of people to drop the ipod but it should mean that Microsoft fans don't feel nearly as ashamed to own a Zune now. Not that Microsoft's achievement here is anything different from their usual - look at what Apple do and try to match it. No matter how good they made the Zune, Microsoft fans continually ignore the fact that Apple have driven this industry to the point it's at now and deserve respect for it.
You can't compare the power consumption of OLED Vs. LCD using a Zune Vs. iPod Touch test, as the two devices are different in pretty much every department - it wouldn't be a controlled test. Having said that, I have no idea which device (Zune or iPod) would win if you did.
What the first part of that is meant to mean I have no idea. I know what you're "trying" to say. The devices are roughly the same size, that and battery life is all I'm talking about. If the Zune lasts longer than as far as I'm concerned the OLED battery life thing is greatly exaggerated.
Ireland, the mistake you've made here is to assume that the iPhone represents the best LCD has to offer. Just because the iPhone's LCD is no good, that doesn't mean the only better option is OLED. OLED is over-hyped and decent LCD can match it.
Stop making stuff up. You're getting like me now!
Prince provided a critique of OLED tech. in general, not the Zune HD's screen specifically.
Which was a very bad move. The whole thread basically screamed raging fanboy. Dan needs to tone it down, A LOT.
At less extreme ends of light and dark (i.e most movies) I would imagine the power savings during darker scenes would be roughly offset by the power consumption of lighters scenes, so it's probably a wash.
That's the trouble with all this, a lot is being assumed. That's why I want to see some real tests.
There is an image comparison here of both in sunlight (first image below the video):
http://www.suntimes.com/technology/i...091609.article
The images that Paul Thurrott submitted are not recognizable to me. I find my iphone screen looks nothing like those images. The blacks certainly aren't all washed out and grey like that.
The images on Thurrott's site seem perfectly fine. Looks just like my 2 iPhones at such an angle. The best thing about the Zune in most every review is the screen. People go on about it.
As for the sunlight images, both phones are in a different position in related to camera. Plus you hardly linked to the most unbiased of people. Even at the same angle the iPhone probably has better light sensor anyway, automatically banging the brightness up to full. That's not necessarily representative of the screens themselves. Also, in sunlight I know what the iPhone is like, I do have two of them after all.
Personally I just avoid using my iPhone in direct sunlight anyway, so this whole sunlight thing isn't crucial by any means to me. Performance in a dark room is way more important to me, as that's the only time I'd be watching a long video on the phone. The Zune's screen is far superior, check the video reviews, everyone says it.
Stop making stuff up.
Making stuff up? What did I make up?
The iPod Touch's screen is not great. But in order to be better, it does not have to be OLED. You still haven't explained what's the point of having a "great" screen if it's only great for a year or two.
Making stuff up? What did I make up?
The iPod Touch's screen is not great. But in order to be better, it does not have to be OLED. You still haven't explained what's the point of having a "great" screen if it's only great for a year or two.
Year or two? I think you may be talking about OLED two years ago, not now. And especially not now at that size of a screen. It's sort of like flash drives in a way.