On the other hand, maybe MS perfectly well understands their customer base. If they've been willing to put up with the MS corporate, marketing, and product behavior for all these years, what's a little forced advertising? MS "fans" always get played for their high expectations, though the delivery bar has been set low for years.
That could be true. Microsoft users have put up with the headaches of Windows for years so they may not mind an app taking 30 seconds to load. It's just like waiting after another Windows crash for them.
I don't know man. I will be honest. I was completely disappointed with the new touch and in fact ordered a 32 Gb Zune HD today. I have had 5 Ipods and for the first time in 6 or so years, I purchased a non Apple branded media device. I have wanted a Touch since day one but have been waiting for the right features. They just never came along. Maybe in another generation or two I will switch back, but Apple lost me for the time being on Sept 9th.
I really like Zune Pass too. I think it's the best deal going.
Say what you want. I am sure I will be ridiculed or whatever.
So what "features" that the Touch lacks does the Zune have? If all you care about is subscription music and a radio I can see where this would make sense, but it's literally the only scenario that does.
Which is fine, to each their own, but I can't see where there's going to be all that many people that "don't give a rat's ass about apps", find the Touch to be lacking in features, and find those very features in the Zune.
I can only speak presumptively about today's business model; I just observe no evidence of change. In the past, I had some insight having been recruited as a technology "evangelist". Back then, it was all about their business model. Forestalling competitor sales through pre-announcements and media "leaks" was more important than actually delivering on the customer "expectations" that evangelists were to inculcate. Weaken and crush the competition stemmed from Gates. Innovation, not so much. I never saw evidence of innovation once Nathan Myhrvold and the Office Suite and Web leaders departed and it had been waning for 5 years prior. Sure, in the early days their compilers ruled ... until the upstart Borland came along, but Phillipe Kahn's ego eventually doomed that. I'm digressing, as well as aging myself, so I'll stop.
Your digression, as well as your points, made for some refreshingly different and very interesting reading here in the forums, I am sure most would agree. Thanks for sharing.
It's satisfying when someone with inside experience verifies a hunch some of us on the periphery have, but can't put our fingers on it. (or as soon as we put our fingers on it and talked about expectations not being met we gotten the same old negating tec rah rah).
As for aging, someone said if youth was the best part of life it would be the main course, not the starters like it is.
I can only speak presumptively about today's business model; I just observe no evidence of change. In the past, I had some insight having been recruited as a technology "evangelist". Back then, it was all about their business model. Forestalling competitor sales through pre-announcements and media "leaks" was more important than actually delivering on the customer "expectations" that evangelists were to inculcate. Weaken and crush the competition stemmed from Gates. Innovation, not so much. I never saw evidence of innovation once Nathan Myhrvold and the Office Suite and Web leaders departed and it had been waning for 5 years prior. Sure, in the early days their compilers ruled ... until the upstart Borland came along, but Phillipe Kahn's ego eventually doomed that. I'm digressing, as well as aging myself, so I'll stop.
So what "features" that the Touch lacks does the Zune have? If all you care about is subscription music and a radio I can see where this would make sense, but it's literally the only scenario that does.
Which is fine, to each their own, but I can't see where there's going to be all that many people that "don't give a rat's ass about apps", find the Touch to be lacking in features, and find those very features in the Zune.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Zune Pass is a really great service and value. The HD radio was just icing on the cake.
I don't know man. I will be honest. I was completely disappointed with the new touch and in fact ordered a 32 Gb Zune HD today. I have had 5 Ipods and for the first time in 6 or so years, I purchased a non Apple branded media device. I have wanted a Touch since day one but have been waiting for the right features. They just never came along. Maybe in another generation or two I will switch back, but Apple lost me for the time being on Sept 9th.
Hmm... well, the only thing that people were disappointed with about the new iPod Touch was the lack of camera. The Zune doesn't have a camera either.
So, yes, you will get ridiculed for not mentioning why you were disappointed with the new touch, and why you ordered a Zune instead. What was the killer feature in the Zune that the iPod touch didn't provide for you.
What's great about Zune Pass? The lifetime commitment? Not ridiculing, but honestly, why is it "great service and value?"
For one it integrates with their genius like feature. It will create a playlist with songs from your library and similar songs not in your library and stream them to you (while giving you the option to buy the songs or tag them to buy them later). That alone makes it a great music discovery service. You also can select 10 songs a month to keep forever (up to a $12.90 value in the itunes store). Furthermore, lets be honest here. There is no real lifetime commitment, you can also purchase songs in addition to the 10 songs a month that you get to keep with the Zune pass for prices similar to that in the itunes store with the added benefit of unlimited previews before you make the purchase. Personally, I've bought albums from from itunes and after listening to them, felt like I wasted $10 on the album. Zune Pass would eliminate those bad purchases since you can listen to the whole album before purchasing it.
Of course the downside is that you are paying $15 a month, even if there is no new music that you want. Despite that, this is the one feature of the Zune that I would really like to have, but I wouldn't give up email, a solid web browser, and apps for it. Not to mention having to wait 10 seconds for the calculator to launch, or watching a commercial before I can play a game. i will just wait for the Spotify app to come to Canada.
Another great article here, but it's really just preaching to the choir.
Anyway, as with most Microsoft products, the Zune and Marketplace, sound ugly, clunky and cumbersome. The Redmond corporation long ago burned its bridge with me, and I do everything within my power to disuade people from using and buying its products from Xbox to Bing to Office and Windows.
For one it integrates with their genius like feature. It will create a playlist with songs from your library and similar songs not in your library and stream them to you (while giving you the option to buy the songs or tag them to buy them later). That alone makes it a great music discovery service. You also can select 10 songs a month to keep forever (up to a $12.90 value in the itunes store). Furthermore, lets be honest here. There is no real lifetime commitment, you can also purchase songs in addition to the 10 songs a month that you get to keep with the Zune pass for prices similar to that in the itunes store with the added benefit of unlimited previews before you make the purchase. Personally, I've bought albums from from itunes and after listening to them, felt like I wasted $10 on the album. Zune Pass would eliminate those bad purchases since you can listen to the whole album before purchasing it.
Of course the downside is that you are paying $15 a month, even if there is no new music that you want. Despite that, this is the one feature of the Zune that I would really like to have, but I wouldn't give up email, a solid web browser, and apps for it. Not to mention having to wait 10 seconds for the calculator to launch, or watching a commercial before I can play a game. i will just wait for the Spotify app to come to Canada.
Agreed. In fact, I went to Pitchfork and looked up their top 100 indie albums for the last 3 years and have been working my way through them. They are almost all there (at Zune marketplace). I have discovered more new music and more artist in the last two months than any other time in my life including college.
The Zune software isn't perfect but the Zune Pass is a huge upgrade to anything Apple has got going right now.
I was disapointed with the Sept. 9th conference becuase at that point I already had Zune Pass for like two months. Even though there were not an rumors, I was hoping that Apple would announce a service competitive with the Zune Pass.
I dont care about Apps. I don't care about cameras. It's mostly about the music.
Agreed. In fact, I went to Pitchfork and looked up their top 100 indie albums for the last 3 years and have been working my way through them. They are almost all there (at Zune marketplace). I have discovered more new music and more artist in the last two months than any other time in my life including college.
The Zune software isn't perfect but the Zune Pass is a huge upgrade to anything Apple has got going right now.
I was disapointed with the Sept. 9th conference becuase at that point I already had Zune Pass for like two months. Even though there were not an rumors, I was hoping that Apple would announce a service competitive with the Zune Pass.
I dont care about Apps. I don't care about cameras. It's mostly about the music.
Then it sounds like the Zune HD is a great fit, for you.
The question is, are there enough consumers like you, who are willing to forgo device integration and general computer functionality in exchange for a particular feature (subscription services) that to date hasn't been very popular (see also Napster and Rhapsody)?
Moreover, to the extent that this feature becomes more popular, how much competitive advantage will it afford the Zune with apps such as Pandora, Last.fm and (especially) Spotify available for the Touch and iPhone, not to mention the Pre and Android phones?
This is a good comprehensive piece, a fact which makes it all the stranger that the author writes:
"Content Apple sells in iTunes is all ad-free, in stark contrast to the TV-style ads that are used in competing efforts to support the display of content on the web, such as Hulu."
No. In fact, the entire top 10% of the first page seen in iTunes is advertising. It is also dynamic advertising, offering the same shifting landscape of irritation as a common Flash or animated .gif ad.
For someone who wishes to use iTunes to seek out, say, Satie or Miles Davis, having Taylor Swift's moronic mug or a come-on for the latest episode of Dexter flashed at him upon opening iTunes is like wandering into a Wal-Mart: the same taste of American crap culture awaits.
This is a good comprehensive piece, a fact which makes it all the stranger that the author writes:
"Content Apple sells in iTunes is all ad-free, in stark contrast to the TV-style ads that are used in competing efforts to support the display of content on the web, such as Hulu."
No. In fact, the entire top 10% of the first page seen in iTunes is advertising. It is also dynamic advertising, offering the same shifting landscape of irritation as a common Flash or animated .gif ad.
For someone who wishes to use iTunes to seek out, say, Satie or Miles Davis, having Taylor Swift's moronic mug or a come-on for the latest episode of Dexter flashed at him upon opening iTunes is like wandering into a Wal-Mart: the same taste of American crap culture awaits.
I think it's pretty clear they're talking about ads within the available content. So that if I purchase a TV show on iTunes, I can watch it with no ads. If I want to watch something on Hulu for "free", I'm going to have to endure the ads, which reoccur regularly throughout the program.
I hardly think a brief glimpse of some pop culture imagery which offends your sensibilities on your way to browsing for music which you will purchase and enjoy without any further interruption is comparable.
I can't address Apple, but from the rest of my experience to retirement (as COO and SVP of Strategic Marketing for $25M-$1B private and public corporations) and part of due diligence teams for a dozen acquisitions, I disagree with your first premise. While playing to win, many companies seek to "maximize shareholder value" with more customer-centric, respect for competition, long-term views and business behavior. Not all, of course ... but, that's equally true in personal life.
Comments
On the other hand, maybe MS perfectly well understands their customer base. If they've been willing to put up with the MS corporate, marketing, and product behavior for all these years, what's a little forced advertising? MS "fans" always get played for their high expectations, though the delivery bar has been set low for years.
That could be true. Microsoft users have put up with the headaches of Windows for years so they may not mind an app taking 30 seconds to load. It's just like waiting after another Windows crash for them.
P.S. I don't give a rat's arse about apps. So the add thing didn't sway me.
Then you are also not interested in the ZuneHD either. Unless you are only going for the HDradio. But otherwise a normal iPod will do for you. Right?
I don't know man. I will be honest. I was completely disappointed with the new touch and in fact ordered a 32 Gb Zune HD today. I have had 5 Ipods and for the first time in 6 or so years, I purchased a non Apple branded media device. I have wanted a Touch since day one but have been waiting for the right features. They just never came along. Maybe in another generation or two I will switch back, but Apple lost me for the time being on Sept 9th.
I really like Zune Pass too. I think it's the best deal going.
Say what you want. I am sure I will be ridiculed or whatever.
So what "features" that the Touch lacks does the Zune have? If all you care about is subscription music and a radio I can see where this would make sense, but it's literally the only scenario that does.
Which is fine, to each their own, but I can't see where there's going to be all that many people that "don't give a rat's ass about apps", find the Touch to be lacking in features, and find those very features in the Zune.
I can only speak presumptively about today's business model; I just observe no evidence of change. In the past, I had some insight having been recruited as a technology "evangelist". Back then, it was all about their business model. Forestalling competitor sales through pre-announcements and media "leaks" was more important than actually delivering on the customer "expectations" that evangelists were to inculcate. Weaken and crush the competition stemmed from Gates. Innovation, not so much. I never saw evidence of innovation once Nathan Myhrvold and the Office Suite and Web leaders departed and it had been waning for 5 years prior. Sure, in the early days their compilers ruled ... until the upstart Borland came along, but Phillipe Kahn's ego eventually doomed that. I'm digressing, as well as aging myself, so I'll stop.
Your digression, as well as your points, made for some refreshingly different and very interesting reading here in the forums, I am sure most would agree. Thanks for sharing.
It's satisfying when someone with inside experience verifies a hunch some of us on the periphery have, but can't put our fingers on it. (or as soon as we put our fingers on it and talked about expectations not being met we gotten the same old negating tec rah rah).
As for aging, someone said if youth was the best part of life it would be the main course, not the starters like it is.
...will be "there's an ad for that!"
lmao. f. great line, super!!!
I can only speak presumptively about today's business model; I just observe no evidence of change. In the past, I had some insight having been recruited as a technology "evangelist". Back then, it was all about their business model. Forestalling competitor sales through pre-announcements and media "leaks" was more important than actually delivering on the customer "expectations" that evangelists were to inculcate. Weaken and crush the competition stemmed from Gates. Innovation, not so much. I never saw evidence of innovation once Nathan Myhrvold and the Office Suite and Web leaders departed and it had been waning for 5 years prior. Sure, in the early days their compilers ruled ... until the upstart Borland came along, but Phillipe Kahn's ego eventually doomed that. I'm digressing, as well as aging myself, so I'll stop.
everyone does this, including Apple
So what "features" that the Touch lacks does the Zune have? If all you care about is subscription music and a radio I can see where this would make sense, but it's literally the only scenario that does.
Which is fine, to each their own, but I can't see where there's going to be all that many people that "don't give a rat's ass about apps", find the Touch to be lacking in features, and find those very features in the Zune.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Zune Pass is a really great service and value. The HD radio was just icing on the cake.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Zune Pass is a really great service and value. The HD radio was just icing on the cake.
If music and video is all you want, you will probably be happy with it.
I don't know man. I will be honest. I was completely disappointed with the new touch and in fact ordered a 32 Gb Zune HD today. I have had 5 Ipods and for the first time in 6 or so years, I purchased a non Apple branded media device. I have wanted a Touch since day one but have been waiting for the right features. They just never came along. Maybe in another generation or two I will switch back, but Apple lost me for the time being on Sept 9th.
Hmm... well, the only thing that people were disappointed with about the new iPod Touch was the lack of camera. The Zune doesn't have a camera either.
So, yes, you will get ridiculed for not mentioning why you were disappointed with the new touch, and why you ordered a Zune instead. What was the killer feature in the Zune that the iPod touch didn't provide for you.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Zune Pass is a really great service and value. The HD radio was just icing on the cake.
What's great about Zune Pass? The lifetime commitment? Not ridiculing, but honestly, why is it "great service and value?"
What's great about Zune Pass? The lifetime commitment? Not ridiculing, but honestly, why is it "great service and value?"
For one it integrates with their genius like feature. It will create a playlist with songs from your library and similar songs not in your library and stream them to you (while giving you the option to buy the songs or tag them to buy them later). That alone makes it a great music discovery service. You also can select 10 songs a month to keep forever (up to a $12.90 value in the itunes store). Furthermore, lets be honest here. There is no real lifetime commitment, you can also purchase songs in addition to the 10 songs a month that you get to keep with the Zune pass for prices similar to that in the itunes store with the added benefit of unlimited previews before you make the purchase. Personally, I've bought albums from from itunes and after listening to them, felt like I wasted $10 on the album. Zune Pass would eliminate those bad purchases since you can listen to the whole album before purchasing it.
Of course the downside is that you are paying $15 a month, even if there is no new music that you want. Despite that, this is the one feature of the Zune that I would really like to have, but I wouldn't give up email, a solid web browser, and apps for it. Not to mention having to wait 10 seconds for the calculator to launch, or watching a commercial before I can play a game. i will just wait for the Spotify app to come to Canada.
Anyway, as with most Microsoft products, the Zune and Marketplace, sound ugly, clunky and cumbersome. The Redmond corporation long ago burned its bridge with me, and I do everything within my power to disuade people from using and buying its products from Xbox to Bing to Office and Windows.
For one it integrates with their genius like feature. It will create a playlist with songs from your library and similar songs not in your library and stream them to you (while giving you the option to buy the songs or tag them to buy them later). That alone makes it a great music discovery service. You also can select 10 songs a month to keep forever (up to a $12.90 value in the itunes store). Furthermore, lets be honest here. There is no real lifetime commitment, you can also purchase songs in addition to the 10 songs a month that you get to keep with the Zune pass for prices similar to that in the itunes store with the added benefit of unlimited previews before you make the purchase. Personally, I've bought albums from from itunes and after listening to them, felt like I wasted $10 on the album. Zune Pass would eliminate those bad purchases since you can listen to the whole album before purchasing it.
Of course the downside is that you are paying $15 a month, even if there is no new music that you want. Despite that, this is the one feature of the Zune that I would really like to have, but I wouldn't give up email, a solid web browser, and apps for it. Not to mention having to wait 10 seconds for the calculator to launch, or watching a commercial before I can play a game. i will just wait for the Spotify app to come to Canada.
Agreed. In fact, I went to Pitchfork and looked up their top 100 indie albums for the last 3 years and have been working my way through them. They are almost all there (at Zune marketplace). I have discovered more new music and more artist in the last two months than any other time in my life including college.
The Zune software isn't perfect but the Zune Pass is a huge upgrade to anything Apple has got going right now.
I was disapointed with the Sept. 9th conference becuase at that point I already had Zune Pass for like two months. Even though there were not an rumors, I was hoping that Apple would announce a service competitive with the Zune Pass.
I dont care about Apps. I don't care about cameras. It's mostly about the music.
Agreed. In fact, I went to Pitchfork and looked up their top 100 indie albums for the last 3 years and have been working my way through them. They are almost all there (at Zune marketplace). I have discovered more new music and more artist in the last two months than any other time in my life including college.
The Zune software isn't perfect but the Zune Pass is a huge upgrade to anything Apple has got going right now.
I was disapointed with the Sept. 9th conference becuase at that point I already had Zune Pass for like two months. Even though there were not an rumors, I was hoping that Apple would announce a service competitive with the Zune Pass.
I dont care about Apps. I don't care about cameras. It's mostly about the music.
Then it sounds like the Zune HD is a great fit, for you.
The question is, are there enough consumers like you, who are willing to forgo device integration and general computer functionality in exchange for a particular feature (subscription services) that to date hasn't been very popular (see also Napster and Rhapsody)?
Moreover, to the extent that this feature becomes more popular, how much competitive advantage will it afford the Zune with apps such as Pandora, Last.fm and (especially) Spotify available for the Touch and iPhone, not to mention the Pre and Android phones?
"Content Apple sells in iTunes is all ad-free, in stark contrast to the TV-style ads that are used in competing efforts to support the display of content on the web, such as Hulu."
No. In fact, the entire top 10% of the first page seen in iTunes is advertising. It is also dynamic advertising, offering the same shifting landscape of irritation as a common Flash or animated .gif ad.
For someone who wishes to use iTunes to seek out, say, Satie or Miles Davis, having Taylor Swift's moronic mug or a come-on for the latest episode of Dexter flashed at him upon opening iTunes is like wandering into a Wal-Mart: the same taste of American crap culture awaits.
This is a good comprehensive piece, a fact which makes it all the stranger that the author writes:
"Content Apple sells in iTunes is all ad-free, in stark contrast to the TV-style ads that are used in competing efforts to support the display of content on the web, such as Hulu."
No. In fact, the entire top 10% of the first page seen in iTunes is advertising. It is also dynamic advertising, offering the same shifting landscape of irritation as a common Flash or animated .gif ad.
For someone who wishes to use iTunes to seek out, say, Satie or Miles Davis, having Taylor Swift's moronic mug or a come-on for the latest episode of Dexter flashed at him upon opening iTunes is like wandering into a Wal-Mart: the same taste of American crap culture awaits.
I think it's pretty clear they're talking about ads within the available content. So that if I purchase a TV show on iTunes, I can watch it with no ads. If I want to watch something on Hulu for "free", I'm going to have to endure the ads, which reoccur regularly throughout the program.
I hardly think a brief glimpse of some pop culture imagery which offends your sensibilities on your way to browsing for music which you will purchase and enjoy without any further interruption is comparable.
everyone does this, including Apple
I can't address Apple, but from the rest of my experience to retirement (as COO and SVP of Strategic Marketing for $25M-$1B private and public corporations) and part of due diligence teams for a dozen acquisitions, I disagree with your first premise. While playing to win, many companies seek to "maximize shareholder value" with more customer-centric, respect for competition, long-term views and business behavior. Not all, of course ... but, that's equally true in personal life.