I love that the palm pre exceeded expectations, yet palm as a whole lost 160 million. nice
Why do we assume the Pre exceeded expectations? What were the publicly stated expectations? This is just marketing/pr speak. If the Pre had exceeded any expectations, they would be boasting about specifics. I think the iPhone killing Pre failed to meet expectations and what we are seeing is damage control.
I love that the palm pre exceeded expectations, yet palm as a whole lost 160 million. nice
That is quite likely and there is nothing wrong with that at this point. Considering that WebOS and the Pre were major investments (don?t forget advertising) and it has only had one quarter to sell, this does not indicate a failure. It only indicates that they lost money for the quarter. When we need to look for is this next quarter (and each subsequent quarter) of Palm selling more Pres and other WebOS devices, or more importantly reducing the net loss. As they are officially dropping a lot of dead weight with any device that is not WebOS-based we may see Palm actually be in the black for the next quarter. This is not unlike the resurrection of Apple back in the late 1990s.
That is quite likely and there is nothing wrong with that at this point. Considering that WebOS and the Pre were major investments (don?t forget advertising) and it has only had one quarter to sell, this does not indicate a failure. It only indicates that they lost money for the quarter. When we need to look for is this next quarter (and each subsequent quarter) of Palm selling more Pres and other WebOS devices, or more importantly reducing the net loss. As they are officially dropping a lot of dead weight with any device that is not WebOS-based we may see Palm actually be in the black for the next quarter. This is not unlike the resurrection of Apple back in the late 1990s.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
Android is a very good mobile OS, nice to see that HTC is stepping in to that, It evolves very quick and has loads of potential.
The base is a LINUX kernel, wich on its turn is derived from UNIX.
Palm makes very nice machines, wich never feel like crap. webOS is also based on LINUX. I hope they'll manage to stay and secure their future.
I love my iPhone, but good competition is healthy!
Just pointing out the obvious: as an OS X variant, the iPhone's lineage runs back to Unix as well.
Looks like 'ix (outside of the Blackbery alternative, which will stick around as well) is finally accomplishing in mobile computing what should have happened (on technical merit) in the PC world: displacing an inferior MS product.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
I'm not trying to be contentious, but outside of the tech-centric web I really don't hear much about the Pre at all. Certainly nothing remotely approaching the buzz that the iPhone was able to generate, which is inevitable in that the iPhone got there first and remade the category.
But that's the problem for competitors, at this point-- short of making something jaw-droppingly revolutionary, Apple has sucked up all the oxygen in the "holy mackerel, just look at this thing" room.
The Pre was able to get some of that going, pre-launch, at least among the tech savvy, but they don't seem to be doing much to sustain it. The Pre is on the market, you can buy it if you want, some people like it a lot, and that's it.
And I'm puzzled by the extremely low-key Pixi announcement. At one point there was a lot of talk of how a family of WebOS devices were going to take the market by storm, no doubt, but Palm just seemed be sort of "Oh, and here's this, whatever."
Don't get me wrong, I think the Pre is fine phone, and I'm sure it will do solid business, but momentum? Not seeing it.
Up here in Canada, Rogers has absolutely no regret about not having the Pre. Any Rogers middle manager (like in GTA-marketing) will tell you it's all but a failure. Android is turning out to be something of a disappintment for Rogers as well. They went all out to market it and it's not getting enough traction. Simple reason: iPhone.
Now Bell thinks it can rescussitate itself (after so many scew ups) by heavily promoting the Pre. Good luck, Bell. No wonder you're in the basement today.
Unless Palm gets its act together, and fast, their future is really uncetain.
The Pixi?? What? Wasted development. Focus on making the Pre more robust or roll out a new and better version asap. And improve the housing. It feels like garbage to hold. Keyboard sucks. Time to go full touch and leave physical keyboards where they belong: in the past.
Palm originally grew the Handheld market with PalmPilot in 1996 (following the Apple Newton) and now playing catch-up 13 years later with Pre (following the Apple iPhone).
Rubinstein must have an axe to grind to go against Apple (or maybe he thinks he has better ideas). Nevertheless he's competing against Apple, Google, Nokia, and Microsoft now.
Why do we assume the Pre exceeded expectations? What were the publicly stated expectations? This is just marketing/pr speak. If the Pre had exceeded any expectations, they would be boasting about specifics. I think the iPhone killing Pre failed to meet expectations and what we are seeing is damage control.
They weren't saying that they exceeded Palm's expectations.
They exceeded the analysts expectations. That's what they were talking about.
Like when Apple exceeds the analysts expectations.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
I've seen estimates that Palm must sell almost 3 million a year at the original price to turn a profit.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
How long is this "coming along" going to take? What new and fresh paradigm will they implement for an App Store? Will they be introducing a radically new interface that will make the iPhone look like a 10 year old Star-Tac?
Unless Palm does something truly radical with the Pre it's really not going to go much further than what we're seeing now. If the iPhone didn't exist, the Pre launch would have seemed quite decent. But in light of the 3GS launch, the Pre was a non-event the likes of Y2K. When you compete against Apple, if you don't make a big showing early on, you've more or less lost. Palm isn't just battling Apple, it's battling Apple mindshare.
Palm needs a device that can make calls, plus turn water into wine and loaves into fish in order to truly stand out and become desirable. It was just "good enough" from the very start. And when you're in a market with Apple, "good enough" is never enough.
If the iPhone didn't exist, the Pre launch would have seemed quite decent. But in light of the 3GS launch, the Pre was a non-event the likes of Y2K. When you compete against Apple, if you don't make a big showing early on, you've more or less lost. Palm isn't just battling Apple, it's battling Apple mindshare.
This is exactly the problem. All these companies want to compete against Apple to raise their profile. That is just plain stupid. If they want to be #2 or #3 in the market place, they should compete against #2 or #3. The Pre would have been a success story had they announced that their target was Android or WinMo. Instead, they set all of their marketing sights on the iPhone: a product they cannot come close to competing with for another ten years, if ever.
It is like a welterweight boxer insisting on getting in the ring with a heavyweight. It is stupid and deadly. It is as if they would rather get beat by someone they have no chance against than by someone their own size. If Palm loses to Apple, they are heroic; if they lose to Google, they are pathetic.
Dumping the distractions is definitely necessary. It's never a good idea to send mixed messages to customers. The problem is, who would trust Palm at this point? The went from their own proprietary OS that they let rot on the vine. Then, they adopted their number one competitor's OS, Windows Mobile. Now they are back doing their own thing again. What's next, Android phones from Palm? With the financial situation they are in, I wouldn't invest in Palm based devices right now.
Also, with Palm dropping Windows mobile and HTC scaling back, Windows mobile would seem to be in big trouble. Microsoft will learn that it's partners will turn their back as soon as they have a better alternative (like Android). This will eventually prompt Microsoft to enter the phone hardware business much like they did with the Zune. After which, the rest of Microsoft's partners will abandon ship. I believe Microsoft's market share dropped from 14% last year to just 9% this year. Within a few months, the situation should be even worse. Windows mobile 6.5 isn't going to be enough to help them either. This of course reminds me of quotes from Ballmer just before Apple entered the market... something about "not a chance", etc.
Dumping the distractions is definitely necessary. It's never a good idea to send mixed messages to customers. The problem is, who would trust Palm at this point? The went from their own proprietary OS that they let rot on the vine. Then, they adopted their number one competitor's OS, Windows Mobile. Now they are back doing their own thing again. What's next, Android phones from Palm? With the financial situation they are in, I wouldn't invest in Palm based devices right now.
Also, with Palm dropping Windows mobile and HTC scaling back, Windows mobile would seem to be in big trouble. Microsoft will learn that it's partners will turn their back as soon as they have a better alternative (like Android). This will eventually prompt Microsoft to enter the phone hardware business much like they did with the Zune. After which, the rest of Microsoft's partners will abandon ship. I believe Microsoft's market share dropped from 14% last year to just 9% this year. Within a few months, the situation should be even worse. Windows mobile 6.5 isn't going to be enough to help them either. This of course reminds me of quotes from Ballmer just before Apple entered the market... something about "not a chance", etc.
A lot of people thought the Zune HD would be the Touch killer, with a Zune phone on the same platform to follow.
However, it appears that MS doesn't want to muddy their WinMo waters with another app wielding platform, so the Zune is obliged to kind of eke out a niche as best they can.
That is to say, the Zune HD is competing with...... WinMo. It's MS vs. MS and only one will survive.
So now we have to do the usual MS "just you wait till the pre-announced vaporware rolls into town, because buddy, that shit will kick ass and take names" waiting game. Meanwhile, more and more vendors are gong their own way with Android or rolling their own like Palm.
If WinMo 7 uses some of the Zune HD's UI bling, and MS gets some partners to build something to the HD's hardware quality, they might even have something competitive to offer. But by that time will there even be an opportunity? That much further down the road into a world of iPhones and Androids and possibly the Pre, or a revitalized Nokia, or a polished up Blackberry.
But, honestly, I don't hold out much hope that much of the Zune's sexiness will survive being put through the MS backwards compatibility/IT first mill.
Comments
Palm makes very nice machines, wich never feel like crap.
I suppose the Pre is the exception.
I love that the palm pre exceeded expectations, yet palm as a whole lost 160 million. nice
Why do we assume the Pre exceeded expectations? What were the publicly stated expectations? This is just marketing/pr speak. If the Pre had exceeded any expectations, they would be boasting about specifics. I think the iPhone killing Pre failed to meet expectations and what we are seeing is damage control.
I love that the palm pre exceeded expectations, yet palm as a whole lost 160 million. nice
That is quite likely and there is nothing wrong with that at this point. Considering that WebOS and the Pre were major investments (don?t forget advertising) and it has only had one quarter to sell, this does not indicate a failure. It only indicates that they lost money for the quarter. When we need to look for is this next quarter (and each subsequent quarter) of Palm selling more Pres and other WebOS devices, or more importantly reducing the net loss. As they are officially dropping a lot of dead weight with any device that is not WebOS-based we may see Palm actually be in the black for the next quarter. This is not unlike the resurrection of Apple back in the late 1990s.
That is quite likely and there is nothing wrong with that at this point. Considering that WebOS and the Pre were major investments (don?t forget advertising) and it has only had one quarter to sell, this does not indicate a failure. It only indicates that they lost money for the quarter. When we need to look for is this next quarter (and each subsequent quarter) of Palm selling more Pres and other WebOS devices, or more importantly reducing the net loss. As they are officially dropping a lot of dead weight with any device that is not WebOS-based we may see Palm actually be in the black for the next quarter. This is not unlike the resurrection of Apple back in the late 1990s.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
Android is a very good mobile OS, nice to see that HTC is stepping in to that, It evolves very quick and has loads of potential.
The base is a LINUX kernel, wich on its turn is derived from UNIX.
Palm makes very nice machines, wich never feel like crap. webOS is also based on LINUX. I hope they'll manage to stay and secure their future.
I love my iPhone, but good competition is healthy!
Just pointing out the obvious: as an OS X variant, the iPhone's lineage runs back to Unix as well.
Looks like 'ix (outside of the Blackbery alternative, which will stick around as well) is finally accomplishing in mobile computing what should have happened (on technical merit) in the PC world: displacing an inferior MS product.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
I'm not trying to be contentious, but outside of the tech-centric web I really don't hear much about the Pre at all. Certainly nothing remotely approaching the buzz that the iPhone was able to generate, which is inevitable in that the iPhone got there first and remade the category.
But that's the problem for competitors, at this point-- short of making something jaw-droppingly revolutionary, Apple has sucked up all the oxygen in the "holy mackerel, just look at this thing" room.
The Pre was able to get some of that going, pre-launch, at least among the tech savvy, but they don't seem to be doing much to sustain it. The Pre is on the market, you can buy it if you want, some people like it a lot, and that's it.
And I'm puzzled by the extremely low-key Pixi announcement. At one point there was a lot of talk of how a family of WebOS devices were going to take the market by storm, no doubt, but Palm just seemed be sort of "Oh, and here's this, whatever."
Don't get me wrong, I think the Pre is fine phone, and I'm sure it will do solid business, but momentum? Not seeing it.
Now Bell thinks it can rescussitate itself (after so many scew ups) by heavily promoting the Pre. Good luck, Bell. No wonder you're in the basement today.
Unless Palm gets its act together, and fast, their future is really uncetain.
The Pixi?? What? Wasted development. Focus on making the Pre more robust or roll out a new and better version asap. And improve the housing. It feels like garbage to hold. Keyboard sucks. Time to go full touch and leave physical keyboards where they belong: in the past.
Rubinstein must have an axe to grind to go against Apple (or maybe he thinks he has better ideas). Nevertheless he's competing against Apple, Google, Nokia, and Microsoft now.
Why do we assume the Pre exceeded expectations? What were the publicly stated expectations? This is just marketing/pr speak. If the Pre had exceeded any expectations, they would be boasting about specifics. I think the iPhone killing Pre failed to meet expectations and what we are seeing is damage control.
They weren't saying that they exceeded Palm's expectations.
They exceeded the analysts expectations. That's what they were talking about.
Like when Apple exceeds the analysts expectations.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
I've seen estimates that Palm must sell almost 3 million a year at the original price to turn a profit.
However, that in itself is a problem. Palm isn't a strong brand in Europe and Palm is going to be entering a crowded marketplace.
It seems like every other day I hear something about the Pre and how it's coming along. I think as it's popularity rises, price drops, and development advances, the pre will definitely make a turn and start yielding some profits. By then, it might even be offered by Verizon as well.
How long is this "coming along" going to take? What new and fresh paradigm will they implement for an App Store? Will they be introducing a radically new interface that will make the iPhone look like a 10 year old Star-Tac?
Unless Palm does something truly radical with the Pre it's really not going to go much further than what we're seeing now. If the iPhone didn't exist, the Pre launch would have seemed quite decent. But in light of the 3GS launch, the Pre was a non-event the likes of Y2K. When you compete against Apple, if you don't make a big showing early on, you've more or less lost. Palm isn't just battling Apple, it's battling Apple mindshare.
Palm needs a device that can make calls, plus turn water into wine and loaves into fish in order to truly stand out and become desirable. It was just "good enough" from the very start. And when you're in a market with Apple, "good enough" is never enough.
If the iPhone didn't exist, the Pre launch would have seemed quite decent. But in light of the 3GS launch, the Pre was a non-event the likes of Y2K. When you compete against Apple, if you don't make a big showing early on, you've more or less lost. Palm isn't just battling Apple, it's battling Apple mindshare.
This is exactly the problem. All these companies want to compete against Apple to raise their profile. That is just plain stupid. If they want to be #2 or #3 in the market place, they should compete against #2 or #3. The Pre would have been a success story had they announced that their target was Android or WinMo. Instead, they set all of their marketing sights on the iPhone: a product they cannot come close to competing with for another ten years, if ever.
It is like a welterweight boxer insisting on getting in the ring with a heavyweight. It is stupid and deadly. It is as if they would rather get beat by someone they have no chance against than by someone their own size. If Palm loses to Apple, they are heroic; if they lose to Google, they are pathetic.
Also, with Palm dropping Windows mobile and HTC scaling back, Windows mobile would seem to be in big trouble. Microsoft will learn that it's partners will turn their back as soon as they have a better alternative (like Android). This will eventually prompt Microsoft to enter the phone hardware business much like they did with the Zune. After which, the rest of Microsoft's partners will abandon ship. I believe Microsoft's market share dropped from 14% last year to just 9% this year. Within a few months, the situation should be even worse. Windows mobile 6.5 isn't going to be enough to help them either. This of course reminds me of quotes from Ballmer just before Apple entered the market... something about "not a chance", etc.
Dumping the distractions is definitely necessary. It's never a good idea to send mixed messages to customers. The problem is, who would trust Palm at this point? The went from their own proprietary OS that they let rot on the vine. Then, they adopted their number one competitor's OS, Windows Mobile. Now they are back doing their own thing again. What's next, Android phones from Palm? With the financial situation they are in, I wouldn't invest in Palm based devices right now.
Also, with Palm dropping Windows mobile and HTC scaling back, Windows mobile would seem to be in big trouble. Microsoft will learn that it's partners will turn their back as soon as they have a better alternative (like Android). This will eventually prompt Microsoft to enter the phone hardware business much like they did with the Zune. After which, the rest of Microsoft's partners will abandon ship. I believe Microsoft's market share dropped from 14% last year to just 9% this year. Within a few months, the situation should be even worse. Windows mobile 6.5 isn't going to be enough to help them either. This of course reminds me of quotes from Ballmer just before Apple entered the market... something about "not a chance", etc.
A lot of people thought the Zune HD would be the Touch killer, with a Zune phone on the same platform to follow.
However, it appears that MS doesn't want to muddy their WinMo waters with another app wielding platform, so the Zune is obliged to kind of eke out a niche as best they can.
That is to say, the Zune HD is competing with...... WinMo. It's MS vs. MS and only one will survive.
So now we have to do the usual MS "just you wait till the pre-announced vaporware rolls into town, because buddy, that shit will kick ass and take names" waiting game. Meanwhile, more and more vendors are gong their own way with Android or rolling their own like Palm.
If WinMo 7 uses some of the Zune HD's UI bling, and MS gets some partners to build something to the HD's hardware quality, they might even have something competitive to offer. But by that time will there even be an opportunity? That much further down the road into a world of iPhones and Androids and possibly the Pre, or a revitalized Nokia, or a polished up Blackberry.
But, honestly, I don't hold out much hope that much of the Zune's sexiness will survive being put through the MS backwards compatibility/IT first mill.