Why Apple is betting on HTML 5: a web history

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  • Reply 21 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    Clearly Flash isn't working? Flash is on 99% of all internet enabled computers as of June 2009.



    http://www.adobe.com/products/player...s/flashplayer/



    Dwindling group of Flash designers? What do you have to back that claim up with.



    This is another AI article that is clearly biased and very poorly written. Read the last paragraph it sounds like a Sarah Palin Speech.



    I had a different interpretation of the main article with regard to Flash. I believe the "isn't working" comment is rooted in the need to create a Flash client and plugin architecture for every platform that comes along just so you can display video. That's a total waste. The HTML 5 effort is an attempt to let browser developers handle that effort as they create the appropriate display application for all of the platforms they wish to serve. Doesn't that make more sense?
  • Reply 22 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    HTML 5 is already a de-facto standard, with Firefox, Safari, Chrome and Opera supporting it. Microsoft has expressed support for that standard.



    With Windows Mobile on the decline and Android on the way up, most mobile browsers will support HTML 5.



    There is a big difference between supporting it and actual usage by developers.



    There is a global recession right now and I don't see a lot of companies coding for something that doesn't display properly across all web browsers. Flash will be here for a long, long time.
  • Reply 23 of 185
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:

    HTML's public definition as an open standard allowed anyone to to set up a server with web page documents that any web browser on any platform could display. As the reality of this tremendous new potential began to sink in, Microsoft realized that the web would not just be a threat to its proprietary new MSN service, but would also be used by companies to reduce their dependance on Windows, allowing them to buy products from any vendor. This sparked its war with Netscape on the implementation side, but there would also be wars on the web standards side.]



    because MSN was such a big competitor to AOL. AOL and MSN grew out of the BBS's of the 1980's. there was also compuserve and i forgot who else



    MS was surprised because at the time Windows was meant to be used on LAN's and not the internet. IE was just Mosaic with some of Microsoft's code. If you look at the about section of IE,most of it is licensed from other companies. Just like Netscape was Mosaic with a different GUI and they even got sued for it
  • Reply 24 of 185
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    Flash will be here for a long, long time.



    Thanks again for pointing out the obvious. Your extremist view on how you think technology works is not the way things actually happen. Most of know that old standards do exist and often thrive while new ones come into play.
  • Reply 25 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    Apple's obsession with compete control and a closed system does not fit my life style. I made the mistake of purchasing an iPhone. I regret that everyday.



    Quit torturing yourself and get rid of it. It isn't that hard. There is this thing call eBay. Have you heard of it?



    And you're one of the few to defend Flash. Adobe looks like they've got a dying technology there. MS has no incentive to push Flash, they have a competing technology called Silverlight. Have you heard of it? Flash will never make it to mobile devices. Google and Apple both support HTML 5. Since iPhone and Android look like the mobile platforms to beat right now, that's a pretty big endorsement.



    Besides Adobe, who's going to push Flash going forward?
  • Reply 26 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    HTML 5 is already a de-facto standard, with Firefox, Safari, Chrome and Opera supporting it. Microsoft has expressed support for that standard.



    With Windows Mobile on the decline and Android on the way up, most mobile browsers will support HTML 5.



    HTML 5 is still in draft mode and is not a standard.



    Sorry being lazy like AI and not giving anything to support my claim.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_5
  • Reply 27 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Quit torturing yourself and get rid of it. It isn't that hard. There is this thing call eBay. Have you heard of it?



    And you're one of the few to defend Flash. Adobe looks like they've got a dying technology there. MS has no incentive to push Flash, they have a competing technology called Silverlight. Have you heard of it? Flash will never make it to mobile devices. Google and Apple both support HTML 5. Since iPhone and Android look like the mobile platforms to beat right now, that's a pretty big endorsement.



    Besides Adobe, who's going to push Flash going forward?



    Flash and Flash light are already on many mobile devices, read something other than AI. They do not get great reviews because of the lack of current mobile processing power.



    That is changing everyday. Unlike Apple that only puts out 1 phone a year.



    Microsoft already supports Flash on WinMo.

    http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...a-49736dad8e25
  • Reply 28 of 185
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    HTML 5 is still in draft mode and is not a standard.



    Sorry being lazy like AI and not giving anything to support my claim.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_5



    And again pointing out the obvious and not comprehending the use of the word ?standard?.
    Quiz:

    ? How long was Apple including 802.11n radios in Macs as standard practice?

    ? When did the 802.11n go from being a draft to a standard?

    ? See what I did there? (likely not)
    All those vendors he mentioned are including HTML5 draft elements as standard on their browsers. The Pre depends on it and my iPhone has several website that utilize it for offline DBs.



    PS: from the link yuo supplied but obviously didn?t read...
    Quote:

    The specification is an ongoing work, and is expected to remain so for many years, although parts of HTML5 are going to be finished and implemented in browsers before the whole specification reaches final Recommendation status.[4] The editors are Ian Hickson of Google, Inc. and David Hyatt of Apple, Inc.



  • Reply 29 of 185
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    because MSN was such a big competitor to AOL. AOL and MSN grew out of the BBS's of the 1980's. there was also compuserve and i forgot who else



    Are you thinking of Prodigy, or something earlier?
  • Reply 30 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    Flash and Flash light are already on many mobile devices, read something other than AI. They do not get great reviews because of the lack of current mobile processing power.



    That is changing everyday. Unlike Apple that only puts out 1 phone a year.



    Microsoft already supports Flash on WinMo.

    http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...a-49736dad8e25



    Yeah looser mobile devices.



    What mobile devices account for the lions share of web browsing on mobile devices? You know the answer.



    You can pretend all you want that Flash will hang on but they are going to see their importance fade. If not from HTML 5, then from Ogg Theora.
  • Reply 31 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    And again pointing out the obvious and not comprehending the use of the word ?standard?.
    Quiz:

    ? How long was Apple including 802.11n radios in Macs as standard practice?

    ? When did the 802.11n go from being a draft to a standard?

    ? See what I did there? (likely not)
    All those vendors he mentioned are including HTML5 draft elements as standard on their browsers. The Pre depends on it and my iPhone has several website that utilize it for offline DBs.



    PS: from the link yuo supplied but obviously didn?t read...



    Until it's a standard and all browsers support all the API's, markups and error handling you are going to have every browswer display it differently or even not support certain aspects of it. Even then it's going to take years as each version of HTML did to gain acceptance with developers and browser vendors. In other words it's going to be a mess for years and until then we have Flash.
  • Reply 32 of 185
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    Clearly Flash isn't working? Flash is on 99% of all internet enabled computers as of June 2009.



    http://www.adobe.com/products/player...s/flashplayer/



    Dwindling group of Flash designers? What do you have to back that claim up with.



    This is another AI article that is clearly biased and very poorly written. Read the last paragraph it sounds like a Sarah Palin Speech.



    Flash has many problems. Crashes caused because of poorly written code is one of them.



    I do't believe that he meant that developers are dwindling now, but that as HTML 5 becomes widely adopted, as it looks to be, then Flash developers will begin to dwindle.



    Also, with several types of Flash programs for different platforms, with differing capabilities, it's becoming complex and broken as one standard.



    If Apple refuses to accept Flash for the iPhone, and Touch, that will be a major setback for mobile use.
  • Reply 33 of 185
    Safari proper uses Cocoa.



    Safari for iPhone OS uses Cocoa Touch which is part of Cocoa.
  • Reply 34 of 185
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    It's purely speculation and a poor one that isn't backed up with any data. And it's also very poorly written.



    What were you tired of getting your ass handed to you in MacRumors as LTD regarding Google Voice and came back here to to sound important? They were calling Bull Shit on you over there and I'm calling Bull Shit on you in AI.



    This article is a very poorly written history of HTML that ends with speculation that the adoption of HTML 5 is going to be magically adopted overnight and that Adobe is going to make more money by supporting it rather than Flash.



    And Apple didn't lie to the FCC either. Right /sarcasm.



    The history and timeline meshes with what I remember of it from the beginning.



    Exactly what was wrong? And please don't enter your thoughts about Flash.
  • Reply 35 of 185
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    Flash isn't just used on YouTube. Almost every major Television network and News Media Web site uses Flash as the standard for providing Video content.



    Hulu has become one of the most popular video content providers and they use Flash to stream media as well.



    Only Mac users don't like Flash because it runs like shit on all OS's of Apple OS. It runs extremely well on PC's.



    If Apple didn't piss off another major Vendor than Adobe would probably put more time into making it run better on the Mac.



    You'll probably see Google apps to start being resource hogs here soon as Apple did a great job of screwing up that partnership.



    Get over it. Flash is here and will be here for Years to come.



    No one is denying that it will be here for years to come. But after those years, it will go away.
  • Reply 36 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No one is denying that it will be here for years to come. But after those years, it will go away.



    You are only stating an opinion. It is not a Fact.



    You have no idea what Adobe, Google or Microsoft will have by the time there is full adoption of HTML 5.



    Apple is betting on HTML 5 because unlike Adobe (Flash) & Microsoft (SilverLight) it has nothing to grasp onto for streaming video because QuickTime is all but dead (for every platform but Apple).



    HTML 5 may be Apple's akiles heal. This article has a lot of merit that is at least worth thinking about.



    http://gigaom.com/2009/08/12/will-ht...ehold-on-apps/
  • Reply 37 of 185
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Are you thinking of Prodigy, or something earlier?



    I looked it up. It was The Source. I don't remember that. Somehow, I seem to remember another, but can't remember the name.



    I was on Compuserve. At the time, with my 300 baud (remember that term?) modem, i could watch the letters march across the screen as they downloaded. Very exciting. We could download programs.



    Some were as large as 16 KB. But most were about 4.



    When It offered 1200 I upgraded my modem (which cost over $500.)



    They charged $6 and hour for 300 baud, and $12 an hour for 1200.



    Those were the days!



    I got hit with a $600 phone bill to Florida because Compuserve's computers didn't let go of my phone number when I logged out one time. It took a bit of talking to convince AT&T that I really wasn't on the phone.
  • Reply 38 of 185
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post


    You are only stating an opinion. It is not a Fact.



    You have no idea what Adobe, Google or Microsoft will have by the time there is full adoption of HTML 5.



    Apple is betting on HTML 5 because unlike Adobe (Flash) & Microsoft (SilverLight) it has nothing to grasp onto for streaming video because QuickTime is all but dead (for every platform but Apple).



    HTML 5 may be Apple's akiles heal. This article has a lot of merit that is at least worth thinking about.



    http://gigaom.com/2009/08/12/will-ht...ehold-on-apps/



    Nothing you've said is a "fact" either. Even your links may not mean anything in five years.



    Once HTML 5 is here, and mature, in a few years, Flash will start to be seen less and less.



    Adobe isn't like MS. When they see something is going down irreparably, they will let it go. Silverlight may not see much action either.



    You're wrong about Quicktime. Every computer that runs iTunes runs Quicktime, and that alone is over 300 million machines as of a year ago.



    Apple is pushing H.264, and YouTube has been encoded for that for the iPhone.



    Google has as much interest in HTML 5 as anyone else except MS, who seems to have some interest.
  • Reply 39 of 185
    Thanks for the nice synopsis of how the HTML standard evolved (and keeps evolving)! Time will tell where the web will go.
  • Reply 40 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No one is denying that it will be here for years to come. But after those years, it will go away.



    Besides the fact that you give no links to back up anything you are stating.



    Most of the paragraphs are very long sentences. Use a period every now and then and it will make the reading a lot easier.



    You're chart gives no links to support it (as has been the case in most AI articles of late).

    The writing on AI has become like Fox News. Biased, not giving links to support statements and more opinion based.



    Give the Facts, give links to support your statements and leave your opinion out of the article. That's what reader input is for.
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