Yeah, groverat, I thought about asking for a refund. However, it was 11:30, and the managers were all out of sight. I just didn't feel like going through the aggravation for a measly $9. I saw it matinee the first time for $4, so I didn't come out too bad. I went by myself (because I could!). If I'd been with some friend I definitely would've.
I was near the theater this evening and thought about stopping in with my stub and having a talk with the manager. More than anything just so they'll fix the freaking sound - for the enjoyment of others.
Just wasn't worth my time though. Sad and weak as that may sound.
as for Gandalf seeing the eye, in the book this doesnt happen, but in the movie he gets tempted by it, but pulls back after he gets too close and sees the eye.
As for the desktops, WHY THE HELL DONT THEY HAVE THE STRIDER BAR SCENE! That was the coolest part of the movie, that one shot with Strider in the corner, it would make an ideal desktop. Guess Ill just have to try to cap the DVD.
I havent read the books and am not 'in the know' but the movie was awesome and went to see it again.
BUT... there is a part I really dont understand. When the party gets to the other elves, where the head Elf chick (kate blanchette) is asked by Frodo if she wants the ring... and she becomes blue n evil for a few seconds...
When that ordeal is over, she becomes normal again and says something to the effect of "I have passed the test, I shall now exile myself with the other elves and go West" (or something like that).
WTF does that mean? She passes the test and she exiles herself? That makes no sense!
PS I'm super glad I havent read any of the books. All movies I have seen to which I read the books of beforehand have always severely limited my enjoying the movie. Like Sphere, Jurassic Park, Tailor of Panama, etc etc. This was really well done and didnt want to have to worry about 'is it as good as the book' and have to compare MY scenes that I had made in my mind with those made in a movie.
PPS Just as Gandalf got saved by a giant Eagle... couldnt have someone done the SAME THING to drop the damn ring into the volcano???? Just FLY there and drop. DUUUUH. (yes, I do entirely realize that there would be NO STORY if it were that easy... but still it pisses me off)
PPPS For being a Wizard, Gandalf doesn't really seem to do much heavy duty magical stuff. Guess years of D and D really alter your ideas of powerful wizards (fireballs, etc)
<strong>BUT... there is a part I really dont understand. When the party gets to the other elves, where the head Elf chick (kate blanchette) is asked by Frodo if she wants the ring... and she becomes blue n evil for a few seconds...
When that ordeal is over, she becomes normal again and says something to the effect of "I have passed the test, I shall now exile myself with the other elves and go West" (or something like that).
WTF does that mean? She passes the test and she exiles herself? That makes no sense!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually she says: "I pass the test. I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."
The "test" is the temptation that Frodo's offer of the Ring represents for her. She could take it and become a powerful queen -- and eventually, of course, turn to evil because of the Ring.
By "going into the West" she's not exiling herself. It's more like going home. All the Elves are leaving Middle-earth -- few already remain, and eventually all will go to the Grey Havens and sail away west to a land where Men cannot go.
So her choice is to take the Ring and become a queen in Middle-earth, or to leave Middle-earth with the rest of the Elves and sail into the West.
What the movie does not make clear is that Galadriel possesses one of the three Elven-rings, and with it she maintains her enchanted realm of Lorien. When the One is destroyed, the Three will lose much of their power as well, because they are bound with the One. That's what she means by "I will diminish."
I found her speech to be nearly unintelligible because of PJ's special effects. Here is how it appears in the book:
[quote]"And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond all measurement, and beautiful beyond all enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.
"I pass the test," she said. "I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel." <hr></blockquote>
The elves' return to the West (to live with the Valar) in part of a wider theme in which the world becomes dominated by man as the ages pass at the expense of "supernatural" creatures like elves, dwarves, angels and demons. The LOTR contains many oblique references to a much richer past, which even in the time of the war of the ring have become almost mythological. The film(s) have of necessity simplified things even further by omitting much material, so the context of Galadriel's statements and much else about her existence is not going to be understood without going to the books.
Some interesting facts relating to Galadriel, the elves and the cosmology for those who might not know.
Galadriel is in exile in Middle Earth because she was one of a vast host of elves who disobeyed the valar and came under their judgement by the events accompanying their return to Middle Earth at the dawn of the first age to fight Morgoth.
Her country of Lothlorien is modelled on the gardens of Lorien in Valinor. (Valinor aka 'the West' and 'the land of the valar'.)
Her 4 brothers were killed in the First Age, one personally by Sauron. Her father chose to stay in Valinor and never came back to Middle Earth.
She has golden hair because she is part Vanya, the highest of the 3 tribes of the elves. Elves in middle earth genrally have dark hair. She is also elven royalty by birth.
Valinor ("the West") can only be reached on specially built boats as the circles of the Earth have been 'bent' since the second age, so that mortals cannot reach it. A reference to what might now be called extra-dimensional travel.
Gandalf (and the other 4 wizards) also desire deperately to return to the West, but despite being angelic spirits who came our from Valinor to oppose Sauron, their incarnation as "men" has left them with only dim and distant memories of their past.
Sauron was supposed to have returned to Valinor at the end of the first age to be judged by the valar, but after initially repenting he hid and remained in Middle Earth.
*** POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW THE STORY ***
When Sauron and to a lesser extent Saruman are destroyed at the end of the war their incorporeal forms are dissolved by a wind from out of the West. Saruman's spirit 'looks to the west', possibly in repentance and hope of re-acceptance, but is rejected instead.
Thanks for the clarification, being someone whos only knowledge comes from the movie, I had absolutely no clue as to the references to the "West". I also didnt know that Gandalf was immortal... or is he?
Hmm, I will read the trilogy once all the movies have been released and be able to get the real inside view... sounds better and better.
BTW, besides a few tricks and such, it would seem that wizards are more like wise men rather than the D&D type wizards we have come to expect. Or was the kind of magic in LOTR just a taste of what is to come?
Side note: Agent Smith was AWESOME in the matrix. His character had, by far, the most depth and dimension, and was excellent acting. It is a little distracting to see an elven agent smith, but it's a testament to the guy's acting in the matrix.
<strong>Side note: Agent Smith was AWESOME in the matrix. His character had, by far, the most depth and dimension, and was excellent acting. It is a little distracting to see an elven agent smith, but it's a testament to the guy's acting in the matrix.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The last time I saw a performance like Agent Smith was in Silence of the Limbs with Hannibal Lecter. Elronds lines weren't delivered with the craftiness that Agent Smiths lines where but Hugo Weaving is Hugo Weaving. Not bad for a Nigerian LOL
The explanation for the lack of wizard firepower is that they were forbidden to match Sauron's power with power. This stems from previous experience before the first age when the valar battled Morgoth, shattering continents and generally wrecking the primeval perfection of the world. At the end of the first age when Morgoth was defeated the entire region where the battle was fought ended up sumerged in the ocean by the upheavals. Additionally there are hints of the theme that the coming age is to be the age of men and that the time for overtly supernatural intervention is drawing to an end.
The angelic poweres incarnated as the wizards are therefore subject to many of the limitations of natural beings:- hunger, fatigue, temptation, death and the need to start from scratch in much of their learning and skills. Their wizard-form is in itself mortal, but as long as they remain true to their cause (the war against Sauron) they will return to the West and presumably shed their wizardly form with all its trappings of mortality.
Only Gandalf remained loyal. Saruman fell into Sauron's trap. Radaghast seems to have gone native and lost the plot and the two blue wizards disappear into the far south of the world never to be heard of again (although Tolkien says that they may have become involved in the occult and been founders of obscure religions).
***POSSIBLE SPOILER FOLLOWS. BE WARNED***
Gandalf is indeed killed in the battle with the balrog after a long fight, so although he is spiritually immortal (every sentient being in LOTR is although this is never explicity stated in the case of orcs) he is not invulnerable. But instead of 'staying dead' he is sent back to continue the war against Sauron with increased power. The books don't make it entirely clear who sent him back but one of Tolkien's letters states that it must have been God himself, not the valar whose authority didn't extend to matters outwith the world. The spirit incarnated as Gandalf was previously known as Olorin by the elves in the First Age and was picked by the valar to fight against Sauron because of his wisdom and compassion.
Sauron himself provides another example of vulnerable immortality. All the maiar are capable of self incarnation and Sauron had many forms at different times to suit his purpose, some horrific, some beautiful (dark sorcerer, werewolf, serpent, giant batlike entity, angel of light, etc). To enslave the elves he assumed a beautiful form as Lord of Gifts when teaching them how to make rings of power. When he corrupted the king of Numenor he also assumed a beautiful incarnation. He lost this ability after the destruction of his body in the ruin of Numenor and became a fiery, burning figure of terror thereafter. His body was destroyed twice, but his spirit was able to reincarnate until his final defeat in the war of the ring when he suffered Morgoth's fate of being shut out of the universe in the void. Morgoth however is to return for the last battle at the end of the world. Sauron is never mentioned as coming back.
On the subject of immortality only men's spirits go beyond the world after death, all others go to 'the halls of Mandos' in the West. Mandos is the vala with responsibilty for judgement and doom and all elves (and supposedly dwarves) go there. Elves are eventually reborn.
[quote]Elronds lines weren't delivered with the craftiness that Agent Smiths lines where but Hugo Weaving is Hugo Weaving. Not bad for a Nigerian LOL<hr></blockquote>Hugo Weaving is a Nigerian? what? what's the Nigerian thing? I'm confused, because Nigeria is in Africa, and he is about as non-African as they come....
<strong>Hugo Weaving is a Nigerian? what? what's the Nigerian thing? I'm confused, because Nigeria is in Africa, and he is about as non-African as they come....</strong><hr></blockquote>
He was born in Nigeria; his dad worked for a multinational oil company. He moved around a lot as a kid, following his dad I guess, until he settled in Australia at age 16.
Just finished reading The Silmarillion again and my son and I just read The Hobbit. Moving on to FoTR. Mr Tea, that was a very excellent wrapup on what is what in TolkeinLand. Even after just reading The Silmarillian I have a hard time keeping it all straight. Tolkein and his son did an amazing job with that book. BTW, loved the movie and I WILL own it on DVD.
Wouldn't you simply have been a European-African? Unless you are black that is. . . .uh... I guess now your an European-African American.
I don't see what there is to snicker at, it's merely a discriptive term that doesn't relie primarily on skin color. I can fully understand the preference for the usage of that term . . .it's just not that big of a deal really.
Comments
I was near the theater this evening and thought about stopping in with my stub and having a talk with the manager. More than anything just so they'll fix the freaking sound - for the enjoyment of others.
Just wasn't worth my time though. Sad and weak as that may sound.
as for Gandalf seeing the eye, in the book this doesnt happen, but in the movie he gets tempted by it, but pulls back after he gets too close and sees the eye.
As for the desktops, WHY THE HELL DONT THEY HAVE THE STRIDER BAR SCENE! That was the coolest part of the movie, that one shot with Strider in the corner, it would make an ideal desktop. Guess Ill just have to try to cap the DVD.
BUT... there is a part I really dont understand. When the party gets to the other elves, where the head Elf chick (kate blanchette) is asked by Frodo if she wants the ring... and she becomes blue n evil for a few seconds...
When that ordeal is over, she becomes normal again and says something to the effect of "I have passed the test, I shall now exile myself with the other elves and go West" (or something like that).
WTF does that mean? She passes the test and she exiles herself? That makes no sense!
PS I'm super glad I havent read any of the books. All movies I have seen to which I read the books of beforehand have always severely limited my enjoying the movie. Like Sphere, Jurassic Park, Tailor of Panama, etc etc. This was really well done and didnt want to have to worry about 'is it as good as the book' and have to compare MY scenes that I had made in my mind with those made in a movie.
PPS Just as Gandalf got saved by a giant Eagle... couldnt have someone done the SAME THING to drop the damn ring into the volcano???? Just FLY there and drop. DUUUUH. (yes, I do entirely realize that there would be NO STORY if it were that easy... but still it pisses me off)
PPPS For being a Wizard, Gandalf doesn't really seem to do much heavy duty magical stuff. Guess years of D and D really alter your ideas of powerful wizards (fireballs, etc)
<strong>BUT... there is a part I really dont understand. When the party gets to the other elves, where the head Elf chick (kate blanchette) is asked by Frodo if she wants the ring... and she becomes blue n evil for a few seconds...
When that ordeal is over, she becomes normal again and says something to the effect of "I have passed the test, I shall now exile myself with the other elves and go West" (or something like that).
WTF does that mean? She passes the test and she exiles herself? That makes no sense!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually she says: "I pass the test. I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."
The "test" is the temptation that Frodo's offer of the Ring represents for her. She could take it and become a powerful queen -- and eventually, of course, turn to evil because of the Ring.
By "going into the West" she's not exiling herself. It's more like going home. All the Elves are leaving Middle-earth -- few already remain, and eventually all will go to the Grey Havens and sail away west to a land where Men cannot go.
So her choice is to take the Ring and become a queen in Middle-earth, or to leave Middle-earth with the rest of the Elves and sail into the West.
What the movie does not make clear is that Galadriel possesses one of the three Elven-rings, and with it she maintains her enchanted realm of Lorien. When the One is destroyed, the Three will lose much of their power as well, because they are bound with the One. That's what she means by "I will diminish."
I found her speech to be nearly unintelligible because of PJ's special effects. Here is how it appears in the book:
[quote]"And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond all measurement, and beautiful beyond all enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.
"I pass the test," she said. "I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel." <hr></blockquote>
[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: CaseCom ]</p>
Some interesting facts relating to Galadriel, the elves and the cosmology for those who might not know.
Galadriel is in exile in Middle Earth because she was one of a vast host of elves who disobeyed the valar and came under their judgement by the events accompanying their return to Middle Earth at the dawn of the first age to fight Morgoth.
Her country of Lothlorien is modelled on the gardens of Lorien in Valinor. (Valinor aka 'the West' and 'the land of the valar'.)
Her 4 brothers were killed in the First Age, one personally by Sauron. Her father chose to stay in Valinor and never came back to Middle Earth.
She has golden hair because she is part Vanya, the highest of the 3 tribes of the elves. Elves in middle earth genrally have dark hair. She is also elven royalty by birth.
Valinor ("the West") can only be reached on specially built boats as the circles of the Earth have been 'bent' since the second age, so that mortals cannot reach it. A reference to what might now be called extra-dimensional travel.
Gandalf (and the other 4 wizards) also desire deperately to return to the West, but despite being angelic spirits who came our from Valinor to oppose Sauron, their incarnation as "men" has left them with only dim and distant memories of their past.
Sauron was supposed to have returned to Valinor at the end of the first age to be judged by the valar, but after initially repenting he hid and remained in Middle Earth.
*** POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW THE STORY ***
When Sauron and to a lesser extent Saruman are destroyed at the end of the war their incorporeal forms are dissolved by a wind from out of the West. Saruman's spirit 'looks to the west', possibly in repentance and hope of re-acceptance, but is rejected instead.
Thanks for the clarification, being someone whos only knowledge comes from the movie, I had absolutely no clue as to the references to the "West". I also didnt know that Gandalf was immortal... or is he?
Hmm, I will read the trilogy once all the movies have been released and be able to get the real inside view... sounds better and better.
BTW, besides a few tricks and such, it would seem that wizards are more like wise men rather than the D&D type wizards we have come to expect. Or was the kind of magic in LOTR just a taste of what is to come?
That's awesome, ShadyG!
BTW, alcimedes, i thought it was the first book in the trilogy, followed by the Two Towers, and The Return of the King?
Also, pscates, it's a visual feast, if nothing else. I came out a little underwhelmed, but enjoyed it none-the-less. And I'm no LotR trekkie.
<strong>Side note: Agent Smith was AWESOME in the matrix. His character had, by far, the most depth and dimension, and was excellent acting. It is a little distracting to see an elven agent smith, but it's a testament to the guy's acting in the matrix.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The last time I saw a performance like Agent Smith was in Silence of the Limbs with Hannibal Lecter. Elronds lines weren't delivered with the craftiness that Agent Smiths lines where but Hugo Weaving is Hugo Weaving. Not bad for a Nigerian LOL
The explanation for the lack of wizard firepower is that they were forbidden to match Sauron's power with power. This stems from previous experience before the first age when the valar battled Morgoth, shattering continents and generally wrecking the primeval perfection of the world. At the end of the first age when Morgoth was defeated the entire region where the battle was fought ended up sumerged in the ocean by the upheavals. Additionally there are hints of the theme that the coming age is to be the age of men and that the time for overtly supernatural intervention is drawing to an end.
The angelic poweres incarnated as the wizards are therefore subject to many of the limitations of natural beings:- hunger, fatigue, temptation, death and the need to start from scratch in much of their learning and skills. Their wizard-form is in itself mortal, but as long as they remain true to their cause (the war against Sauron) they will return to the West and presumably shed their wizardly form with all its trappings of mortality.
Only Gandalf remained loyal. Saruman fell into Sauron's trap. Radaghast seems to have gone native and lost the plot and the two blue wizards disappear into the far south of the world never to be heard of again (although Tolkien says that they may have become involved in the occult and been founders of obscure religions).
***POSSIBLE SPOILER FOLLOWS. BE WARNED***
Gandalf is indeed killed in the battle with the balrog after a long fight, so although he is spiritually immortal (every sentient being in LOTR is although this is never explicity stated in the case of orcs) he is not invulnerable. But instead of 'staying dead' he is sent back to continue the war against Sauron with increased power. The books don't make it entirely clear who sent him back but one of Tolkien's letters states that it must have been God himself, not the valar whose authority didn't extend to matters outwith the world. The spirit incarnated as Gandalf was previously known as Olorin by the elves in the First Age and was picked by the valar to fight against Sauron because of his wisdom and compassion.
Sauron himself provides another example of vulnerable immortality. All the maiar are capable of self incarnation and Sauron had many forms at different times to suit his purpose, some horrific, some beautiful (dark sorcerer, werewolf, serpent, giant batlike entity, angel of light, etc). To enslave the elves he assumed a beautiful form as Lord of Gifts when teaching them how to make rings of power. When he corrupted the king of Numenor he also assumed a beautiful incarnation. He lost this ability after the destruction of his body in the ruin of Numenor and became a fiery, burning figure of terror thereafter. His body was destroyed twice, but his spirit was able to reincarnate until his final defeat in the war of the ring when he suffered Morgoth's fate of being shut out of the universe in the void. Morgoth however is to return for the last battle at the end of the world. Sauron is never mentioned as coming back.
On the subject of immortality only men's spirits go beyond the world after death, all others go to 'the halls of Mandos' in the West. Mandos is the vala with responsibilty for judgement and doom and all elves (and supposedly dwarves) go there. Elves are eventually reborn.
<strong>Hugo Weaving is a Nigerian? what? what's the Nigerian thing? I'm confused, because Nigeria is in Africa, and he is about as non-African as they come....</strong><hr></blockquote>
He was born in Nigeria; his dad worked for a multinational oil company. He moved around a lot as a kid, following his dad I guess, until he settled in Australia at age 16.
<strong>Heh. Well that sure is interesting.... Imagine that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Solishu,
That is one of the reasons why I don't believe it's good to use terms like African-American ...Africans and Nigerians come in multiple ethnicities
Sounds like Hugo had a good time growing up.
Difference is that he gets a bigger tip.
I don't see what there is to snicker at, it's merely a discriptive term that doesn't relie primarily on skin color. I can fully understand the preference for the usage of that term . . .it's just not that big of a deal really.
Any relation to Doris Lessing?
[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
Most African-Americans are about as African as I am English.
Black-American
White-American
That makes more sense to me.