September 11 WTC memorial...your ideas

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Okay, fast forward a year from now when all the debris and wreckage is cleaned up and so forth.



You know that the site where the twin towers stood is going to eventually have some sort of memorial built on it.



I'm curious to know what some of you envision or would think would be a fitting design and look?



Either desribe it in words, or for the more artistic among you, do some sketchings or Photoshop mockups or renderings (or whatever your software of choice is).



I was watching the news earlier tonight and Mayor Giuliani was saying that the site represents the single worst attack on America in a one day period, but also the most selfless, heroic acts of bravery as well.



Plus, it's the actual site where so many people died (and are still there), not to mention what the day and the site represents, regarding the nation and our new, post September 11 frame of mind.



In other words, it's completely right for some sort of dramatic, permanent memorial or marker of some sort.



Personally, I can't imagine one NOT being there eventually.



Thoughts? Ideas? Let's hear/see 'em...



[ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 30
    g4dudeg4dude Posts: 1,016member
    I think the best thing to do as far as making a memorial and showing out nation's strength would be to completely rebuild it and make it look exactly like before (with structural upgrades of course). it would teach them not to fuck with us and they could dedicate several floors to a 911 museum
  • Reply 2 of 30
    A giant hand giving the finger.
  • Reply 3 of 30
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Well, that area of Manhattan is prime real estate, so the new skyscraper will be the memorial. They'll probably reassemble a piece of "the potato chip" from the original's outer skeleton and have it the centerpiece of some sort of memorial plaza in front of the new building(s).
  • Reply 4 of 30
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Yeah, being where it is and all, I figure a new building will be erected. That's pretty much a given.



    But within the building, or built into it, or simply down on the ground surrounding it will obviously be something serving as a memorial to what happened.



    I never expected them to just leave it flat and unused. You're right...prime real estate.



    But it'll be a popular place, I'm sure. Major tourist destination and a national landmark, like the Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbor I imagine.



    I think having the memorial down on the ground for all to see and visit is better than having it tucked away up inside the building somewhere, although as a couple of you said, the building itself will inevitably be seen as a memorial itself.



    Personally, I like things like this that are simply and downplayed.



    Four years ago, when I was living in northern Virginia, my wife and I went up to D.C. and saw all the memorials and touristy places. I was like "yeah, yeah, yeah..." on most all of them.



    Then we walked over this little rise and down a sidewalk and came to the Vietnam Memorial and I just looked up and saw that LONG piece of black wall. And as I got closer, I started seeing those names. All those names.



    Man, that REALLY affected me that day. I stood there for a good hour, just walking it from end to end, looking at the names, watching the people gathered there, etc.



    That's a very powerful thing to see. And I don't even know anyone who was killed there or am in any significant way affected by Vietnam and it brought tears to my eyes, so I can imagine what it must be like to someone who was there or someone who lost a loved one there and to see their name.



    Whatever goes at the WTC site is going to be something like that. You'll probably see it and just because of everything it immediately conjures up, it'll totally take your breath and away and leave a huge lump in your throat.
  • Reply 5 of 30
    I'd like to think that whatever goes there will, in fact, be a building of some sort. Not just a park/memorial.



    Memorial at plaza level, no doubt. Can it incorporate the severed head of Osama Bin Laden in a plexiglass enclosure?
  • Reply 6 of 30
    imacfpimacfp Posts: 750member
    Apparently they have set aside several sections of the building to be used in a memorial. I think they will build a garden of some kind, but honestly at the moment nothing can erase the shear emptyness of the site and skyline in my mind.



    Chris
  • Reply 7 of 30
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    Yah there will definitely be a new building(s) there, but also a given then, would be a memorial plaza that sits in front of the buildings...perhaps a small park-like area.



    As for the memorial itself, I'm picturing something along the lines of a marble wall with the names of those lost...and some kind of statue in the foreground...but I have no idea what that statue / sculpture would look like. I just hope whatever it is, modern art will not be in the planners' vocabulary. This needs to something we can all relate to and be proud of.



    On a lighter note, MacAgent, you should've seen the picture one of my buddies sent me in the days after the attack. It was the Statue of Liberty looking out to sea, giving the finger...was definitely irreverant (and probably disrespectful to those who immigranted here via Ellis Island), but also kind of funny at the time. Everyone was so gripped with anger and sadness at that time. The picture kind of made me burst out laughing; was the last thing I expected. Shock value humor that works (unlike Howard Stern, the douche).
  • Reply 8 of 30
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    I like the idea of something with everyone's name on it (see my above Vietnam Memorial story). That's very powerful and it honors the victims by giving them names. And the sheer number of them will really make a statement.



    I'd like to see it on white marble, shaped like a semi-circle, bowing inward, with some sort of statue in the center?



    On the statue, something traditional and strong and in-your-face patriotic or stirring. No abstract tulip-shaped, artsy "statement" that no one will get. I'm getting really tired of that shit.



    If I had it my way, perhaps a statue of firemen, police and emergency personnel, surrounded by rescuees (is that a word) of different genders and nationalities, all looking very heroic, defiant and proud.



    Or even simply one fireman carrying a body and an American flag draped over him or something.



    Stuff like that.
  • Reply 9 of 30
    [quote]Originally posted by G4Dude:



    <strong>I think the best thing to do as far as making a memorial and showing out nation's strength would be to completely rebuild it and make it look exactly like before...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    They'd never, in a million freaking years, be able to rent the upper floors.
  • Reply 10 of 30
    The whole "wall with names" has been done. It's a little pasé. Vietnam should have been the last of it. How ?bout names of only the people they never find. After all if you?re found you have a grave marker and are named there. Otherwise the site is your grave. Of course then the families of people who were IDed will get pissed off .... lawyers get hired .... unions get involved .... (watch for heavy union influence in whatever memorial goes there)



    I guess an eternal flame is out of the question?



    How about an known solder type of memorial. One tomb to represent all the people. You have a different group change the guard/put flowers each time. Complete with gift shop. I kind of like that idea.
  • Reply 11 of 30
    Oh also...



    There should only be ONE "thing" there. One memorial for everyone. No separate marker for FDNY, NYPD, Port Authority, Private Security Guards.....



    If anyone's been to the new FDR memorial you'll know what can happen when memorial makers try to do it all. A long meandering museum of a memorial. It sucks.



    They all died together. They all get one marker on the site.
  • Reply 12 of 30
    noahjnoahj Posts: 4,502member
    [quote]Originally posted by pscates:

    <strong>I like the idea of something with everyone's name on it (see my above Vietnam Memorial story). That's very powerful and it honors the victims by giving them names. And the sheer number of them will really make a statement.



    I'd like to see it on white marble, shaped like a semi-circle, bowing inward, with some sort of statue in the center?



    On the statue, something traditional and strong and in-your-face patriotic or stirring. No abstract tulip-shaped, artsy "statement" that no one will get. I'm getting really tired of that shit.



    If I had it my way, perhaps a statue of firemen, police and emergency personnel, surrounded by rescuees (is that a word) of different genders and nationalities, all looking very heroic, defiant and proud.



    Or even simply one fireman carrying a body and an American flag draped over him or something.



    Stuff like that.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I like this idea most so far. The statue could be something like the pictures taht comae out after the attacks of a firefighter and police officer standing side by side maybe carrying victims to safety. That would get me choked up if done right...
  • Reply 13 of 30
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Yeah, I too am not interested in a "Transgendered Women of Color" memorial and an "Asian handicapped children" victims statue or "Gay Irish Firefighters" gazing pool or whatever.







    That's divisive and insulting. Not to mention incredibly lame.



    As for the "names on a wall" thing, you either do it with all or none. You're right...total hell would be raised if some people, for whatever reason, had their names NOT included ona memorial.



    All or none.



    [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
  • Reply 14 of 30
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    one would think that they would rebuild towers there



    Guiliani and the widows union or whatever they call themselves are come out strongly against rebuilding there. they just want a huge park.



    I'm sorry but that just seems dumb to me, obviously you have to respect their opinion, they lost their loved ones, but I see no good reason why not rebuild bigger stronger and better than ever.



    even the WTC site owner doesn't want to rebuild big. he wants 4 50 story buildings.
  • Reply 15 of 30
    I'd like a memorial with names, but not subdivided into groups. They can put FDNY or NYPD next to some names, but just do a big list in alphabetical order. I don't doubt for a second that the emergency personell were heroes, but the fact is, many of the regular workers there did everthing they could - including passing up chances to leave when they could have simply walked out and away from the towers. (Joseph DeMartino, for example, the WTC construction manager who sent his wife out of the tower but refused to leave himself - he was too determined to help save as many as he could)



    As for the buildings themselves, don't build anything yet. You can build a bunch of small buildings there next year, but in 15, 20, 30 years they will only serve as reminders of our (well justified) fear after the attacks.



    Wait a while. Build a couple towers when the time is right, when people aren't terrified of going up high again. It may take 15, 20 years, but I'd rather wait and see it done right, then have some dinky little towers there that are "just another office building".



    Let the WTC rise again, but when we are all ready to deal with it.
  • Reply 16 of 30
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    "Or even simply one fireman carrying a body and an American flag draped over him or something."



    Ugh, sorry, no way. That is entirely too gaudy and jingoistic for such a memorial. This was the site of the World Trade Center, not the USA Trade Center.



    I don't want to see any statues carrying bodies. There's probably some unwritten rule about statues and dead bodies...of course the person being carried doesn't necessarily have to be dead, but it's hard to simulate life in a statue.



    In addition, firemen and rescue workers weren't the only victims and heroes here.



    What I had in mind was a Maya Lin type of memorial with names. The names would be placed on two walls shaped like the twin towers and act as a corridor to a larger plaza, where a giant piece of the original WTC's outer skeleton would be placed. No barrier. People should be able to walk right up to it and touch it, or leave itmes at its base.
  • Reply 17 of 30
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Nothing. Leave it. No park. No Buildings. Nothing. Clean it a little. Make it safe for people to traverse, but leave it stained. Not forever mind. But for a few years at least. NY can work without that space. I think they ought to build out onto the water (obviously not on that location) something with the aspect of the half submerged towers in AI, buildings that seemingly drop straight into the water, connected by bridge structures, like pods to each other, and to the mainland. Perhaps an artificial Island complex off-shore, that has parks and shops, etc... to compliment NY history, and the other islands, and possibly to relieve congestion by moving all those people of the island and onto the water.



    It's potentially a much bigger project than rebuilding the towers -- which equals an even bigger economic boost -- and takes advantage of an opportunity to correct some logistic problems too.



    We can get back to the WTC site later, when some real thought has gone into it. For now I think it's good for people to see it.
  • Reply 18 of 30
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Those are good ideas, Eugene.



    But when it's all said and done, it DID happen here, in AMERICA.



    I don't think that fact can be completely ignored or not spoken to. Nor should it.



    Perhaps not in a heavy-handed way like my earlier thoughts, but the monuments and stuff around D.C. have a distinct American bent to them...for obvious reasons.







    And of course, more than fireman and police acted heroically that day, but you can't make a statue or sculpture depicting every goddamn race, gender, occupation, etc. that the towers housed.



    Besides, firemen have seem to become a bit of a symbol and - right or wrong - are garnering the bulk of the attention, praise, press, etc.



    I doubt many people would be offended or distraught at the likeness of a fireman being used in some sort of memorial.



    Unless, of course, you're NYPD.







    I don't know. In the back of my mind, I know what they're probably going to do and it just irks me a bit. It'll be something so abstract and "sensitive" and try to be all things to all people and it'll suck because that's impossible to do.



    Besides, a little jingoism won't hurt anyone. If terrorists flew 747s into Buckingham Palace or Big Ben, it wouldn't bother me in the least to see a British flag or a plate of fish and chips worked into the design of the memorial.







    [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
  • Reply 19 of 30
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    got to disagree with you guys. the uniformed service men/women who lost their lives SHOULD be seperate from the rest. this biggest single loss of firemen ever. I hate saying this and you may take it the wrong way but they don't "deserve" to be just thrown in with 3,000 other names on a wall.
  • Reply 20 of 30
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    "Besides, a little jingoism won't hurt anyone. If terrorists flew 747s into Buckingham Palace or Big Ben, it wouldn't bother me in the least to see a British flag or a plate of fish and chips worked into the design of the memorial."



    Haahahahhahaa



    but seriously, I can't think of any monument that is distinctly 'American' in DC. In fact, the architecture is simulated Gothic and Greek as I see it. The Washington Memorial? It's a giant obelisk! Even the Statue of Liberty wasn't originally a symbol of America...It was designed by Mr. Eiffel in France and not originally meant for us...



    I forgot to add one thing. There should be specific nods to the NYPD, FDNY and also the Port Authority. Large badges from each authority each with its own mini-monument.



    Or perhaps head-dresses instead of badges.
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