FileMaker releases Bento 3 with iPhoto integration

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 59
    feynmanfeynman Posts: 1,087member
    Quote:

    Bento has the ability to export to the following formats: Numbers (.numbers),* Excel (.xlsx) and Text (.csv, .tab). This data can then be manipulated in another application to your liking.



    That's FileMakers response to exporting to the web.



    Unacceptable.



    If iWork is compariable to Bento and MS Office is compariable to FileMakerPro, we Bento users should have to only have Export to iWeb rather than go through all the steps to get there ourselves.
  • Reply 22 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Now maybe I read the description wrong, but it sounds like Bento is at least quasi-relational in the way it handles data libraries. Not that relational is a make-or-break for me. I'd simply like to have some way of moving databases I designed for FMP to Bento without a lot of heavily lifting. I also have a potential application for the mobile version that I'd like to try out. But no migration path is a pretty big bump in the road.



    I think that if you're experienced enough to use FMP (which it sounds like you are), then you should be able to perform your own migration. Create some csv/text-based reports to export your data and use their output to import into like-tables in Bento. Assuming you don't have many tables in your database(s), it shoudn't take too long.



    While FMP has a "import from Bento" option, that's a logical progression. I doubt they anticipate many people migrating the other way.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PXT View Post


    It's a shame Bento does not use an open SQL framework underneath. The average user need not know anything about it.



    One great thing about using SQL is that you own the data, regardless of whether you continue using the software. I'm always wary of putting my precious info into a proprietary format.



    Agreed - that's what Access does; even though Jet is really not very good, it is at least a proper relational SQL-based database engine.



    FMP supports ODBC connectivity and so I believe it can be used to create pretty front-end access to other databases (such as MySQL). Access can also speak to other databases and has (if memory serves) native access to SQL Server.



    I'm pretty sure Bento only speaks Bento.



    But here we've been discussing the integration of it into iWork, and for most iWork users, it would be an excellent addition to round out a fantastic office suite (I don't know about others here, but I removed Office 2004 from my machines after iWork '08 came out, and while I have Office 2008 on my work Mini [for Exchange access], I very rarely use Word/Excel or PowerPoint, finding the iWork equivalents much better for 90% of my needs -- especially Keynote, which kicks PowerPoint's arse).
  • Reply 23 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PXT View Post


    ... One great thing about using SQL is that you own the data, regardless of whether you continue using the software. I'm always wary of putting my precious info into a proprietary format.



    This is a ridiculous comment. At least it is the way you've phrased it here. What do you even mean by "own the data"???



    Data in a database is just plain old data, it's the relationships in the data that you create with the database that determines whether you use one database or another.



    I've never seen a database where the user doesn't "own" the data, either because they put the data in there in the first place, or because they have backed it up from the database they are using, or exported it from the same database for transfer to a different one.



    The idea that a user "doesn't own" their data if they use Bento, and that this is somehow a big issue is ridiculous.
  • Reply 24 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mr O View Post


    ... Apple should get rid of all the fancy template clutter in Bento. No eye candy, just make it plain & easy on the eyes like all the other apps in Mac OSX.



    Really, who needs lots of typefaces and colour backdrops? I got rid of Bento because of that.



    You do realise that without the typefaces and colour backdrops that Bento is basically just a spreadsheet right?



    The whole point of Bento is to make simple flat-file databases "available to the masses" by making them attractive and easy to use. Without the "attractive and easy to use" part, they might as well not bother at all.
  • Reply 25 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    This is a ridiculous comment. At least it is the way you've phrased it here. What do you even mean by "own the data"???



    I think you misunderstood the comment. What the poster was referring to was the fact that, if the data was stored in a non-proprietary system (like Bento), it would be accessible even if the application was no longer available/supported.



    If Bento used a standard database engine for storage, one would have a multitude of options available for retrieving and manipulating the data, regardless of what 'front-end' tool was used for creating it.
  • Reply 26 of 59
    Any AppleScript support in this version?
  • Reply 27 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djames42 View Post


    I think that if you're experienced enough to use FMP (which it sounds like you are), then you should be able to perform your own migration. Create some csv/text-based reports to export your data and use their output to import into like-tables in Bento. Assuming you don't have many tables in your database(s), it shoudn't take too long.



    While FMP has a "import from Bento" option, that's a logical progression. I doubt they anticipate many people migrating the other way.



    Apparently. I was a FMP jock in the day, but that day was quite a few years ago now, and I've lost interest in keeping up those skills. I know I can export the FMP data but the real issue is recreating the data fields in Bento and matching up the fields properly for import. I get a headache just thinking about it (having gone thorough this exercise many times with FMP). I question whether it's worth the time/effort/money to find out if moving to Bento is feasible. One of these days FMP 5.5 will break with an OS update. Then I will be forced to decide!
  • Reply 28 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    ... Filemaker hasn't found a way to bring their database tech to the web in any meaningful way. Filemaker doesn't integrate easily with any Web Design tools, whether one uses Dreamweaver, Freeway or iWeb.



    Actually this is a big misrepresentation on your part. You may not like their tools, but FileMaker has been very easy to integrate with the web for at least 5 to 7 years and was a bit ahead of the curve on that when they first implemented it about 5 full versions ago. Currently FileMaker 10 has one button web publishing of any FileMaker solution. Seriously, you just have to tick a box and make the layout available on the web (a preference) and that's it.



    You may not like this approach, you may wish that it integrated with Dreamweaver etc., but to maintain that they "haven't found a way to bring their database tech to the web," is seriously wrong and misleading.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    ... Lastly, the hottest thing out there right now is the iPhone, and Filemaker doesn't even have their own iApp solution ...



    Bento? WTF?



    Again, you are being really misleading here. Bento and Bento for iPhone fill this need whether you like it or not, and the solution is as much "theirs" as anyone else's since they provide it to you.
  • Reply 29 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,483member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I know, but it does have relational capabilities so it's apparently not very different from earlier versions of Filemaker in terms of database management abilities. We use a fairly simple database for our invoicing (on FMP 5.5, which fortunately still works in Snow Leopard). I'd like to move this database to something more current that isn't overkill for the purpose. Bento seems like a good choice, but not if I have to recreate the entire thing from scratch.



    Been there tried that. You'd be better IMHO upgrading to File Maker Pro. Having said that, I have not seen Bento 3 so this may be better ... I look forward to testing this myself.
  • Reply 30 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djames42 View Post


    I think you misunderstood the comment. What the poster was referring to was the fact that, if the data was stored in a non-proprietary system (like Bento), it would (sic) be accessible even if the application was no longer available/supported.



    If Bento used a standard database engine for storage, one would have a multitude of options available for retrieving and manipulating the data, regardless of what 'front-end' tool was used for creating it.



    No. I am a database professional myself.



    I understand the reference, I just think it's a disingenuous "catchphrase" that really has little meaning. The idea that if I am using Bento, my data is "stuck" in Bento is both silly and misleading in terms of the real world experience of the user. Name a single database that doesn't export it's data using a variety of very standard (haven't changed for about 10 years) formats and methods for instance.
  • Reply 31 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,483member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Yeah, the trouble with Bento has always been that it's a database for "the average person," but that the average person doesn't really think they need a database, and wouldn't know how to make one work even if they did. So the kind of people smart enough to do interesting tricky things with it would rather just use FileMaker, and the kind of people who are targeted by Bento, end up using dedicated programs instead.



    Bento would be excellent for that custom address book you always wanted, but the average user hasn't the skill to make it and the kind of person who does have that skill would not bother. Bento would be great for Mum's recipes, but she probably already uses "recipe keeping software" from some minor software company that produces only that product.



    I think it will take a long time for Bento to catch on but it's still a good product. A lot could be gained on both sides by integrating it into iWork as others have mentioned. It would drive sales of FileMaker as well as iWork.



    Getting rid of FileMaker as a brand would be a big mistake though. After all the years of work they put into it, FileMaker is finally a brand that people can take seriously in databases and they should ditch all that effort to re-represent the company through a silly "consumer oriented "product? That would be a really dumb move.



    I totally agree with all you say here.
  • Reply 32 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Been there tried that. You'd be better IMHO upgrading to File Maker Pro. Having said that, I have not seen Bento 3 so this may be better ... I look forward to testing this myself.



    Hm. The problem is that we need it for two Macs -- $600. Ouch.
  • Reply 33 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,483member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Hm. The problem is that we need it for two Mac -- $600. Ouch.



    I hear you!



    I am about to get upgrade to 3 so will know more soon. I suspect though it is really an iLife type product (and excellent for that purpose) and will never do the stuff we FMP folks take for granted.



    p.s. I hope I am wrong and 3 is far better.
  • Reply 34 of 59
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    But its fine for iWork which is more a consumer suite (Works competitor) with better functionality than a Office suite. iWork's import export functionality is better for importing your personal files into iWork formats and exporting if need be. Working with office files on a daily basis is problematic.



    I guess so since the standard version of MS Office on Windows doesn't have Access either (nor does the Mac version obviously) What is really a nuisance is keeping a Windows machine around with a copy of MS Access. I had Parallels and Win OfficePro on my MBP but after SL upgrade it doesn't work. I have to decide what to do , whether to switch to Boot Camp, upgrade Parallels, or go with Fusion.
  • Reply 35 of 59
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,483member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I guess so since the standard version of MS Office on Windows doesn't have Access either (nor does the Mac version obviously) What is really a nuisance is keeping a Windows machine around with a copy of MS Access. I had Parallels and Win OfficePro on my MBP but after SL upgrade it doesn't work. I have to decide what to do , whether to switch to Boot Camp, upgrade Parallels, or go with Fusion.





    Parallels is still working for me in SL ... I have version 4.0.3, I also have VM and prefer Parallels at this point in time.
  • Reply 36 of 59
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,838member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Actually this is a big misrepresentation on your part. You may not like their tools, but FileMaker has been very easy to integrate with the web for at least 5 to 7 years and was a bit ahead of the curve on that when they first implemented it about 5 full versions ago. Currently FileMaker 10 has one button web publishing of any FileMaker solution. Seriously, you just have to tick a box and make the layout available on the web (a preference) and that's it.



    You may not like this approach, you may wish that it integrated with Dreamweaver etc., but to maintain that they "haven't found a way to bring their database tech to the web," is seriously wrong and misleading.



    Yes, "one button publishing" does exist. I know absolutely no-one who uses it.



    They were ahead of the curve several years ago, then they slapped a $1000 tax on using Filemaker on the web and everybody went to PHP/SQL. Shades of the Firewire license fee all over again. They really are owned by Apple.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Again, you are being really misleading here. Bento and Bento for iPhone fill this need whether you like it or not, and the solution is as much "theirs" as anyone else's since they provide it to you.



    Yes, Bento does have its own iApp. I was talking about Filemaker Pro, which is far more suited to the multi-user iPod Touch application example I was referring to.
  • Reply 37 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    No. I am a database professional myself.



    I understand the reference, I just think it's a disingenuous "catchphrase" that really has little meaning. The idea that if I am using Bento, my data is "stuck" in Bento is both silly and misleading in terms of the real world experience of the user. Name a single database that doesn't export it's data using a variety of very standard (haven't changed for about 10 years) formats and methods for instance.



    Fair enough - I hadn't noticed your previous posts that showed you knew what you were talking about . And certainly you're right in that nearly every database supports common export options. I suppose one could argue that Bento almost certainly does use a (somewhat) proprietary database engine. It's required Leopard since day one, and so it probably relies on CoreData.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I guess so since the standard version of MS Office on Windows doesn't have Access either (nor does the Mac version obviously) What is really a nuisance is keeping a Windows machine around with a copy of MS Access. I had Parallels and Win OfficePro on my MBP but after SL upgrade it doesn't work. I have to decide what to do , whether to switch to Boot Camp, upgrade Parallels, or go with Fusion.



    Do you really need Access? There are certainly other routes to take on the Mac.



    Shame Oracle didn't keep up development of PowerObjects. They released a very nice Mac version of the tool back in the day!
  • Reply 38 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    Parallels is still working for me in SL ... I have version 4.0.3, I also have VM and prefer Parallels at this point in time.



    Older versions of Parallels (2.x I believe) do not work with SL.



    I finally had reason to give Fusion a good workout last week (I've been a Parallels user for several years) and was quite disappointed. I can't believe this is a universal fault, but every time I disconnected and removed a USB drive, the external drive holding my VM was also ejected locking up my VM and causing me to lose whatever I was working on (fortunately I escaped corruption of the VM).



    I've never had this happen with Parallels.
  • Reply 39 of 59
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djames42 View Post




    Do you really need Access? There are certainly other routes to take on the Mac.



    Shame Oracle didn't keep up development of PowerObjects. They released a very nice Mac version of the tool back in the day!



    Unfortunately yes since 99.9% of our customers are very Windows centric and we have to run a lot of mdb files on Windows web servers. Which I have to say pretty sweet the way you can directly address the file without it being a system odbc object using asp or .Net.



    The usual scenario is that I make a new database with an empty table on the Windows box and I upload it to the server, Remote desktop in to it set the permission (tedious required step) and then I can manipulate it any way I want through asp. Add columns, tables. data etc using my Mac.
  • Reply 40 of 59
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Does anyone have any experience with moving Filemaker databases to Bento? Can it even be done?





    Export your FMP file as a .csv file (comma delimited) then import in Bento



    Be careful as you can select the first record as fields names, or not
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