Why Apple is betting on Light Peak with Intel: a love story

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  • Reply 41 of 113
    jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    She's beautiful, but I hope you're not insinuating that Apple's fortunes are sagging.



    Quite the contrary.
  • Reply 42 of 113
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fyngyrz View Post


    Cables? CABLES?



    The future is wireless. Get the damned cables off my desk. All of them. I don't want to see anything more than power cords, and I'm not all that happy with them, either.



    Sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. There is limited bandwidth to dedicate to computer communications. At best you will get more reliable interfaces for short range device communications but that is about it.

    Quote:



    Optical cables are like optical LP pickup heads. Great idea, time is past, lets get on with the real deal, pure digital media. Only pseudo audiophiles try to claim LPs have merit over high definition digital formats (and they're still completely wrong.) Adding an optical pickup to an LP makes it better, but it still can't compete with 48-bit high bandwidth audio.



    Now you reinforce the fact that you don't know what you are talking about and can't find decent analogies.

    Quote:



    WRT computer system connectivity, we're already seeing cable-free terabyte-class NAS, keyboards, mice, internet, cameras, HD video... Why in the *world* would you encourage Apple to put more CABLES on the desk?



    Reliability, security and speed. Not to mention the limited space for RF communications in the first place.

    Quote:



    Sometimes I think the world just gets stuck. Cables are out. RF is in.



    Three strikes and your out.





    Dave
  • Reply 43 of 113
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    I've been wondering, if Light Peak's economies of scale drives down the price of optical cabling as expected, doesn't this effectively solve the Telcos "last mile" bandwidth problem?



    Wouldn't this means Bell and the others will be able to match cable speeds very soon?
  • Reply 44 of 113
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe The Dragon View Post


    but can this do pci-e over it?



    video cards need to be on the pci-e bus and not a super usb bus with high cpu load.



    I don't have confirmation but I do believe that PCI-Express is possible over the port. Honestly though you wouldn't want to do it that way. Rather I'd go for a networking protocol of some sort. It would be a great way to distribute a bunch of monitors around a large area. For example Airports.



    I have the feeling that most systems currently use video signaling for this. Having more smarts out at the monitor would provide for new capabilities. Sounds like a business opportunity.





    Dave
  • Reply 45 of 113
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    I've been wondering, if Light Peak's economies of scale drives down the price of optical cabling as expected, doesn't this effectively solve the Telcos "last mile" bandwidth problem?



    Wouldn't this means Bell and the others will be able to match cable speeds very soon?



    The reason is simple, optical cabling is produced in huge quantities already. What Apple and Intel can attack is the cost of the interconnects, the I/O chips and other components outside of the fiber.



    Dave
  • Reply 46 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    It's called "context" and sometimes "backgrounding." It's what's missing from 95% or more of tech news stories and is usually welcomed by anyone with half a brain who's actually interested in the truth.



    I wouldn't associate the name "Daniel Eran Dilger" with the word "truth" - at least not in the context of technology reporting.
  • Reply 47 of 113
    A Ton of writing and comments, but what about power? The big bonus of USB, firewire, ADB was that they have power lines built in so you don't need a jillion transformers for every hub or device. If we have spaghetti optical fiber everywhere - we will still need some copper to provide the 5v, or this is doomed from the get go. Also my Tos-links are a pain sometimes - they get dirty and are sensitive to alignment - hope they can make better connectors...



    That said I like the idea of one good standard. Maybe it can replace the over wired ethernet while it's at it...
  • Reply 48 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    She's beautiful, but I hope you're not insinuating that Apple's fortunes are sagging.



    And . . .





    Google





  • Reply 49 of 113
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 21yr_mac_user View Post


    A Ton of writing and comments, but what about power?



    That said I like the idea of one good standard. Maybe it can replace the over wired ethernet while it's at it...



    It's supposed to have power according to earlier articles. Bring it on! LP is going to be much bigger than firewire.
  • Reply 50 of 113
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tombeck View Post


    I wouldn't associate the name "Daniel Eran Dilger" with the word "truth" - at least not in the context of technology reporting.



    I used the word "truth' to contrast it with "consensus" which is what most tech sites traffic in.



    Anyway, insults aside, if you really want to get at the truth of any subject one of the best ways to get there is by reading about the context and history of the item in question. Sometimes "biased" points of view are more valuable than those that purport to be facts because of course everyone has a point of view.



    Even if I agree with your insult about Daniel being overly biased, one is still better off reading his stuff with the appropriate grains of salt than one is reading the average tech story. Most tech sites just regurgitate the rumour of the day word for word like Engadget, publish industry talking points verbatim like PC World or CNET or worse, just make crap up that sounds plausible like Gizmodo.



    My point was only that in a world where everyone is just repeating the daily he said/she said stuff, a site that's interested in points of view, history, context, and most of all analysis is to be preferred. One of the reasons all the stuff written by all the writers on this site is so worth-while is that they do that very thing, and they do it fairly consistently.
  • Reply 51 of 113
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe The Dragon View Post


    but can this do pci-e over it?



    video cards need to be on the pci-e bus and not a super usb bus with high cpu load.



    The concept, as I've been reading it that anything can be sent over this. Any standards. As PCI-e is a serial bus, it should mesh well.



    And don't forget that Intel said that this would scale up to 100 Gb/s over the decade. I wouldn't be surprised if by then they can get it higher with multimode. You can get thousands of channels over that, all at the highest data rates.



    There has been a breakthrough on optical switching as well, which would help that tremendously.



    Researchers at Yale have found a way to open and close switches with light, using positive and negative pressure. This is considered to be really major.
  • Reply 52 of 113
    x38x38 Posts: 97member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe The Dragon View Post


    but can this do pci-e over it?



    video cards need to be on the pci-e bus and not a super usb bus with high cpu load.



    One of the articles on this (sorry, I forget which one or where) quoted Intel as saying that the demo was running PCI Express over the Light Peak connection.

    Reminds me of the rumors around the time of the Nubus to PCI switch that Apple was developing a serial bus capable of replacing the motherboard parallel buses, at least for peripherals. Maybe they finally got there.



    If true, I wonder if that will be their answer for all these years of user requests for a mini tower Mac?
  • Reply 53 of 113
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    I've been wondering, if Light Peak's economies of scale drives down the price of optical cabling as expected, doesn't this effectively solve the Telcos "last mile" bandwidth problem?



    Wouldn't this means Bell and the others will be able to match cable speeds very soon?



    Overall, optical cable can be cheap. We might not need glass for this. plastic optical cable would be fine for shorter runs, up to a few tens of feet without a problem, at least.



    It's the connectors that have been expensive. I have an optical splicing and cable connector kit that I've used for that. It's more complex than cutting wires, sticking them into a connector and crimping. Also the optical to electrical converters are been expensive when compared to electrical equivalents.



    But technology marches on.



    Verizon is slowly but surely wiring the country with optical. The amount of cable they are using is so great that whatever is done here wouldn't even be noticed. AT&T is following.



    This is actually a byproduct of what the telco's and ISP's are doing. Without them, the price of these parts would be too high.
  • Reply 54 of 113
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 21yr_mac_user View Post


    A Ton of writing and comments, but what about power? The big bonus of USB, firewire, ADB was that they have power lines built in so you don't need a jillion transformers for every hub or device. If we have spaghetti optical fiber everywhere - we will still need some copper to provide the 5v, or this is doomed from the get go. Also my Tos-links are a pain sometimes - they get dirty and are sensitive to alignment - hope they can make better connectors...



    That said I like the idea of one good standard. Maybe it can replace the over wired ethernet while it's at it...



    Power is easy. They just have to include two power lines in the connectors and cabling.
  • Reply 55 of 113
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    [QUOTE=Quadra 610;1491390]And . . .





    Google









    I don't know how to respond to this one, other than; "Hi cutie!"
  • Reply 56 of 113
    x38x38 Posts: 97member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    I've been wondering, if Light Peak's economies of scale drives down the price of optical cabling as expected, doesn't this effectively solve the Telcos "last mile" bandwidth problem?



    Wouldn't this means Bell and the others will be able to match cable speeds very soon?



    Systems like Verizon FIOS have already solved the "last mile" problem and easily beat cable in cities lucky enough to have it. Even FIOS is bottlnecked by copper once it gets inside the home though. Maybe we should call that the "last foot" problem. I've heard they have been working on a solution, but haven't made it economical yet.

    This Ligh Peak looks like it might quickly end up being the de facto solution to the "last foot" problem. Just imagine - a high speed optical connection all the way from the phone company trunk lines to the motherboard of your computer.
  • Reply 57 of 113
    x38x38 Posts: 97member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Power is easy. They just have to include two power lines in the connectors and cabling.



    Several articles have mentioned that the Light Peak cables and connectors do exactly as you suggest.
  • Reply 58 of 113
    [QUOTE=melgross;1491403]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    And . . .





    Google









    I don't know how to respond to this one, other than; "Hi cutie!"



    She's evil.
  • Reply 59 of 113
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ranson View Post


    Agreed. While it was a nice biography of computing buses, the assertion that somehow Intel thinks Atom will get more attention from Apple thanks to Light Peak is an absolute stretch and definitely not newsworthy, considering it's only supported by the author's opinion.



    I do have to agree that the link between Atom and Light Peak were puzzling at best when I read it. I think that should have been expanded on more. I could loan out my tin foil hat if need be.



    Good article besides that though. I enjoyed the read!
  • Reply 60 of 113
    Apple may be pushing for this but it isn't Apple's innovation, it's Intel's and Sony is also on board according to this article on Intel's website. Doesn't mention Apple.



    http://techresearch.intel.com/articles/None/1813.htm
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